On the bike nutrition.

scottreynolds

okay so, I'll put my hand up and say that I bonked Saturday while out on a 100 miles ride. It was my first back to back 100 mile day as I'm training for the ToI. Anyway my problem wasn't carrying a lack of food it was delaying the eating of it. I planned to eat a tasty bar every 20 kms after 80kms but I didn't. So around 135 km I hit the wall. My head started doing silly things and my legs felt strangely detached from my body (actually it was more a dizzy tingling sesation). I had to stop and pile in food etc and 30 minutes later i was cycling along again fine.

After I returned home I realized that I was absolutely sick and tired of anything sugary and sweet - bars, gels, drinks etc all the things that people are trying to market us and say will keep your energy up..... so I set about looking for a good savory alternative. The great news was that cycling weekly this week had a good article on nutrition form the garmin team. They are doing some excellent and interesting stuff.

Here's a link to some coverage about there meals etc on the bike (they have coke) http://www.bicycling.com/tourdefrance/article/0,6802,s1-7-483-17636-1,00.html

But here's the real find -- a link to the rice cakes being made and the recipe. I'm going to make this now even though I can't find the correct Japanese rice (using Spanish short rice)

http://www.slipstreamsports.com/2008/07/16/cooking-with-allen-rice-cakes

If anyone else how some good tips for savory on the bike treats that we can make let us know -- I know of at least one other rider who during a recent 100 miles said "I am dying for something savory"

Raam

are you saying you waited 80km before you started eating?

abcdggs

yeah i was wondering the same thing? surely a constant intake of carbs and fluids are necessary

scottreynolds

Raam wrote: »

are you saying you waited 80km before you started eating?

abcdggs wrote: »

yeah i was wondering the same thing? surely a constant intake of carbs and fluids are necessary

No no -- for the first two hours I had my sugary drink (powerbar drink and a few jelly babies). I was consuming calories just not solids.

Raam

I was advised that you should get solids in from the start.

Actually, it was Jamie Burrows that I heard that from on the TOI

Lumen

On the ~150km ride on Friday when ROK_ON and I passed you, I consumed: 2 bananas, 300g jellies (sour and normal), 2 chocolate cereal bars, a large slice of banana/chocolate cake, and a capuccino with 3 shots.

As you've discovered, this level of crap is not sustainable. Apart from the coffee perhaps.

Your training (and event) is closer to touring than racing, so eat accordingly. I discovered when touring that it is possible to eat a full length baguette full of brie in one sitting. So go for crusty french bread, buttery brioche, flaky criossants. Perhaps the full spectrum from bread to cake to biscuit and back again.

But good luck with the rice cakes. They sound nasty.

btw, total respect for your training efforts, I'm slightly in awe!

blorg

Personally I tend to go for sandwiches. I get really sick of the bars. AFAIK there is a (compulsory) lunch stop half-way through each stage on the ToI with proper food. I believe there may be smaller stops along the way also to get the groups back together- maybe someone could confirm the details here. The stage profiles they have on the site have two marked stops per stage, with three on day three (the monster 245km day.)

Raam

blorg wrote: »

Personally I tend to go for sandwiches. I get really sick of the bars. AFAIK there is a (compulsory) lunch stop half-way through each stage on the ToI with proper food. I believe there may be smaller stops along the way also to get the groups back together- maybe someone could confirm the details here. The stage profiles they have on the site have two marked stops per stage, with three on day three (the monster 245km day.)

Yeah there is a lunch stop. You will defo want to stop. Loads of tasty sandwiches and soup with tea and cakes

There was a feedstop at about 85 - 95km last year. The lunch stop came after that. Then there was a very small stop with about 40km to go.

DirkVoodoo

Like my friend Phil said to me, by the time you feel the bonk coming on, it's too late.

It's crucial to start eating soon and eat a little often.

scottreynolds

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Like my friend Phil said to me, by the time you feel the bonk coming on, it's too late.

It's crucial to start eating soon and eat a little often.

Thanks -- I know when to eat I just forgot to eat. Easy to do when you counting the miles looking for the villages......

Here's how the thinking was .. four hours to go, three hours to go, 80km to go, 90 kms done... How many to go. Stop, call the wife, eat bar, crap pressed the lap button (my computer doesn't show the total done only lap distance).. ok don't panic you had done 131.2 km and now you have done 4.2 km -- ho long to go... oh crap I can't think. less then 30kmh to go... my head feels funny... legs no power, (i wonder if Dirk has a hair cut today), must stop eat Sugar need a bar. some coke. mmmm

Raam

scottreynolds wrote: »

Thanks -- I know when to eat I just forgot to eat. Easy to do when you counting the miles looking for the villages......

Here's how the thinking was .. four hours to go, three hours to go, 80km to go, 90 kms done... How many to go. Stop, call the wife, eat bar, crap pressed the lap button (my computer doesn't show the total done only lap distance).. ok don't panic you had done 131.2 km and now you have done 4.2 km -- ho long to go... oh crap I can't think. less then 30kmh to go... my head feels funny... legs no power, (i wonder if Dirk has a hair cut today), must stop eat Sugar need a bar. some coke. mmmm

So does all this mean that the Boards gear has arrived?

DirkVoodoo

Thinking about me on your spins is either a sign of bonking or something else entirely.

ROK ON

Scott. Sorry to hear about that. Something similar happened to me a few weeks back. But it is not a pleasant situation to be in. However, you are probably better off for it happening during your training, in that now you can hopefully prevent it during TOI.

I agree with the mindnumming boredom from eating energy bars/cereal bars/swets etc. I have found that I sometimes get bloated from bars/drinks.

I have started eating granola bars with nuts for a change.

@Blorg - re the sandwich. I like a good old sandwich, but find that I rarely have the stomach for one during a spin.
Is there any other real food that folks eat on a spin. I often want to have a bowl of soup that they serve in the cafe in Laragh (always smells great), but I have a fear that it would be too heavy on the stomach.

cunavalos

it may not be to everyones taste but to offset all the sugary based gels/bars, i swear by tuc salt crackers and peanut butter apparently there there is a good spread of carbs, proteins, fats and salts.

scottreynolds

Raam wrote: »

So does all this mean that the Boards gear has arrived?

Actually they just emailed sending it tomorrow.

scottreynolds

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Thinking about me on your spins is either a sign of bonking or something else entirely.

Um err.....I assure you I wasn't thinking of you in the bonking sense.

ROK ON wrote: »

Scott. Sorry to hear about that.

Thanks

ROK ON wrote: »

granola bars with nuts for a change.

I find them pretty dry sometimes al depends on the level of moisture I have in my mouth.

ROK ON wrote: »

cafe in Laragh

what? Who has time to stop for such things. My training is as much as possible no stops as its the best way to train IMHO. I don't like stopping and starting all the tie which is why when I have a real goal for the workout I tend to go alone.

cunavalos wrote: »

it may not be to everyones taste but to offset all the sugary based gels/bars, i swear by tuc salt crackers and peanut butter apparently there there is a good spread of carbs, proteins, fats and salts.

Crackers are probably a good option. I think the essential foods are covered there. Hows the moisture content -- I find under normal circumstances that crackers are sticky in the mouth.

Caroline_ie

I got sick on my way back from a 125k spin last week. I tired, hungry, hadn't eaten much for breakie ( half a bowl of porridge ), not much at the larragh ( tea and a croissant ), maybe a couple of jellies along the was. I hungry during with headache a lot of the spin. Came home, had a glass of chololate milk and got sick, wanted to throw up, headache ... had to lie down for a while. I was really very bad. Taught me a lesson ... do not forget to eat again.

DirkVoodoo

Caroline, are you bonking now??

TinyExplosions

Them rice creations look bloody yummy! I'm going to have to make some for the next spin... Scott, if you can't find Sushi rice, you can use Risotto rice (Arborio or Carnaroli), or Paella Rice and it should work ok. The shorter grained rice will work better as it'll be 'stickier' than your bog standard Unlce Bens stuff

Gavin

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Caroline, are you bonking now??

Come on Dirk, let's maintain some semblance of decorum.

Fredo

I'm diabetic so I have to be careful to avoid sugar spikes otherwise I feel sleepy and cranky. I find dried apricots and dialuted powerade (1/2 a bottle on each bottle) are easy on the stomack. I keep lucosade tablets in case I feel a hypo creeping up.

scottreynolds

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Them rice creations look bloody yummy! I'm going to have to make some for the next spin... Scott, if you can't find Sushi rice, you can use Risotto rice (Arborio or Carnaroli), or Paella Rice and it should work ok. The shorter grained rice will work better as it'll be 'stickier' than your bog standard Unlce Bens stuff

Ah yes, I got some spanish short grain rice. Aparently its famous rice. It worked well but I didn't cook it long enough so me cakes are a bit sticky. Thaey are still grand though. I tried one for breakfast this morning.

rottenhat

I'm with Lumen on this one - train your body to eat regular food on the bike. Ham sandwiches with plenty of mayonnaise and mustard have got me through many long days, likewise salty crackers, beef jerky, hot dogs. Soup is good - I don't think anyone turned their nose up at the soup and sandwiches at the lunch stop on the Ardattin, but nobody seemed to be suffering afterwards. Pretty much anything is okay as long as you don't stuff yourself to the gills.

I appreciate that racing is such an assault on the system that it becomes difficult to digest anything but the simplest of foods, but for regular long rides or audax, I think you're better off not eating too much sugary stuff. I find that upsets my stomach far more than decent food and it just becomes too monotonous after a while.

TinyExplosions

scottreynolds wrote: »

Ah yes, I got some spanish short grain rice. Aparently its famous rice. It worked well but I didn't cook it long enough so me cakes are a bit sticky. Thaey are still grand though. I tried one for breakfast this morning.

It's all about the sticky! If I was doing it, my top tip for the rice is the following: Put the kettle on to boil, and while doing that put 1 cup rice in a saucepan. Add 2 cups water from the kettle, cover, and turn on heat to full bore. When the water is boiling, turn off the heat completely, but leave pan on hot ring (note: doesn't work on gas!), with the rice covered for 15mins or so. You end up with nicely cooked, sticky (but not *too* sticky) rice.

Note however, with short grain rice, it'll always be a bit stickier than sushi rice, which is medium grained and less starchy. God, I'm a rice nerd!

Scott, if you want sushi rice, the best place to go is the Asia Market on Georges St

scottreynolds

rottenhat wrote: »

I'm with Lumen on this one --
I appreciate that racing is such an assault on the system that it becomes difficult to digest anything but the simplest of foods

I agree here too but when your riding 100 milers non-stop your body does get to a stage where is difficult to stomach certain foods - this is aparently a common complaint. I'll keep you updated of my experiments as I have another 4 100 miles rides in the next two weeks before the ToI.

brayblue24

Great thread with great advice. I bonked for the first time ever on Saturday and I'm keen to try to avert it again. I was going to ask the same questions as scottreynolds so will content myself with reading along and taking it all in. Thanks to all.

Lumen

Since we're into rice geekiness....

You can explore the full continuum of rice stickiness using a mixture of "broken" Thai rice and basmati. The broken rice gives up it's starch without stirring (unlike risotto rice) and is easy to get and cheap from Asian supermarkets.

For Indian food I use 25% broken, for Chinese 50% and for Thai 75%.

The most important things are not to wash the rice beforehand, stir on high heat with a few drips of Sesame oil to coat grains, then cook on a very low heat (barely simmering) in 1.5-2 times the volume of water to rice, and never remove the lid until cooked (12-18 minutes, until all water is absorbed).

ROK ON

These are delicious, and can probably be made small to fit in back pocket.

Get some leftover risotto.
Make small risotto squares and wrap these in parma/serano ham.
Roast in oven for 10mins, until ham is crispy.
Yu now have a bitesized ham covered square of rice.

Keep in a ziplock bag for bike rides.
Will try this for spin next w/e.

TinyExplosions

Lumen wrote: »

Since we're into rice geekiness....

You can explore the full continuum of rice stickiness using a mixture of "broken" Thai rice and basmati. The broken rice gives up it's starch without stirring (unlike risotto rice) and is easy to get and cheap from Asian supermarkets.

For Indian food I use 25% broken, for Chinese 50% and for Thai 75%.

The most important things are not to wash the rice beforehand, stir on high heat with a few drips of Sesame oil to coat grains, then cook on a very low heat (barely simmering) in 1.5-2 times the volume of water to rice, and never remove the lid until cooked (12-18 minutes, until all water is absorbed).

Good tips there, the broken rice one is not one I've tried personally, but makes sense... I guess it's all down to how sticky you like your rice! My 'heat off' method gives me what i desire for indian or thai food... for chinese, I use the takeaway

TinyExplosions

ROK ON wrote: »

These are delicious, and can probably be made small to fit in back pocket.

Get some leftover risotto.
Make small risotto squares and wrap these in parma/serano ham.
Roast in oven for 10mins, until ham is crispy.
Yu now have a bitesized ham covered square of rice.

Keep in a ziplock bag for bike rides.
Will try this for spin next w/e.

Sounds good!

Another one I must try is make the recipe linked in OP, but when cold and cut into squares, through into a frying pan to crisp up and colour the outside, cos that crunchy part is bloody tasty!

Gavin

Anyone tried Fat Cyclists avocado squashed into bread one?

scottreynolds

TinyExplosions wrote: »

It's all about the sticky! Add 2 cups water from the kettle

Lumen wrote: »

then cook on a very low heat (barely simmering) in 1.5-2 times the volume of water to rice

Ironically every rice, like all flours for bread, required different amounts of water to get to their ideal consistency. I went to the website for the Calasparra rice that I purchased http://www.arrozdecalasparra.com/default.htm and they state that their ideal ratio is 3.5:1. So I'll remake the rice with that additional water and see what happens. I do use the absorbtion technique described - add water and leave.

Thanks for the cuchi rice tip -- I though that was the best place to buy it. If this Calasparra rice doesn't work out I'll fly down there. On the costings of the produce I think that Rice, Egga Ham, enough for two rides will cos in the regoin of 2 euro roughly the cost of one sports bar.

scottreynolds

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Sounds good!

Another one I must try is make the recipe linked in OP, but when cold and cut into squares, through into a frying pan to crisp up and colour the outside, cos that crunchy part is bloody tasty!

Good option-- I'll toast some up tongiht and pot some pics.

Chips Lovell

If you can cycle with no hands, nothing beats a battered cod and a single of chips as a good savoury alternative. Widely available in most Irish towns.

Lumen

scottreynolds wrote: »

I went to the website for the Calasparra rice that I purchased http://www.arrozdecalasparra.com/default.htm and they state that their ideal ratio is 3.5:1.

Yeah, I have some of that. It's paella rice, where the idea is maximum absorption of stock under "no stirring" conditions to keep the starch inside the grains. With paella, the best bit is the burnt crusty underside. It might be good to adapt paella into a portable dish since it's inherently drier and less fatty than risotto (which just goes sticky when too dry), but it would have to be inland (meat based) paella rather than the coastal sort since you don't want to be carrying shellfish in your back pocket.

scottreynolds

el tonto wrote: »

If you can cycle with no hands, nothing beats a battered cod and a single of chips as a good savoury alternative. Widely available in most Irish towns.

If I were still in New Zealand it would be the meat pie. Ahh, I miss those pies.

ROK ON

el tonto wrote: »

If you can cycle with no hands, nothing beats a battered cod and a single of chips as a good savoury alternative. Widely available in most Irish towns.

After most of my longer cycles, I crave salty food (dehyration?).
Thus a 1 and 1 may not be a bad idea at all. Would not be so much of a detour to cycle home via Burdocks.

DirkVoodoo

I like all this gourmet snack talk, too much effort for me, but I really hate how crap the sugar makes my teeth after a spin.

Tip from Lance: If you eat apple chunks on a spin, don't eat the skin, it's very hard to digest.

scottreynolds

ROK ON wrote: »

After most of my longer cycles, I crave salty food (dehyration?).
Thus a 1 and 1 may not be a bad idea at all. Would not be so much of a detour to cycle home via Burdocks.

Yeah, your body craves salt to replace that lost from sweating. Hence when I made the ricecakes I added alot of salt.

Raam

Should a good electrolyte drink be replenishing lost salts as you ride?

brayblue24

To combat the salt carvings I use a sachet of Dioralyte rehydration formula (about 60c from chemists). Had never heard of it till the kids came along. Works wonders and quickly.

DirkVoodoo

Yeah, I remember my sister got me dioralyte on the morning of my 21st, it does taste very salty but does the job.

I'd normally have a Berocca or something similar after a spin.

ROK ON

Raam wrote: »

Should a good electrolyte drink be replenishing lost salts as you ride?

I use Nuun. It definitely works (in that I used get leg cramp from dehydration, and since using Nuun I dont get them any longer).
However, the mind/stomach still craves salty post cycle grub.

Lumen

Pretzel snacks might be an idea. Salty, carby, low-fat.

rottenhat

+1 on pretzels - hard to get decent ones over here though.

danburke

I swear by Christmass cake

nortal

scottreynolds wrote: »

okay so, I'll put my hand up and say that I bonked Saturday while out on a 100 miles ride. It was my first back to back 100 mile day as I'm training for the ToI. Anyway my problem wasn't carrying a lack of food it was delaying the eating of it. I planned to eat a tasty bar every 20 kms after 80kms but I didn't. So around 135 km I hit the wall. My head started doing silly things and my legs felt strangely detached from my body (actually it was more a dizzy tingling sesation). I had to stop and pile in food etc and 30 minutes later i was cycling along again fine.

After I returned home I realized that I was absolutely sick and tired of anything sugary and sweet - bars, gels, drinks etc all the things that people are trying to market us and say will keep your energy up..... so I set about looking for a good savory alternative. The great news was that cycling weekly this week had a good article on nutrition form the garmin team. They are doing some excellent and interesting stuff.

Here's a link to some coverage about there meals etc on the bike (they have coke) http://www.bicycling.com/tourdefrance/article/0,6802,s1-7-483-17636-1,00.html

But here's the real find -- a link to the rice cakes being made and the recipe. I'm going to make this now even though I can't find the correct Japanese rice (using Spanish short rice)

http://www.slipstreamsports.com/2008/07/16/cooking-with-allen-rice-cakes

If anyone else how some good tips for savory on the bike treats that we can make let us know -- I know of at least one other rider who during a recent 100 miles said "I am dying for something savory"

You could try potato salad with some onion roll it into balls wrap in tinfoil. Full of carbs, slightly savoury and easy on the stomach. I too find the gels and other sports food very sweat and sickly after a while.

concussion

I'f I'm going out for a long spin I'll start with a huge bowl of porrige and a mug of tea. (the tea is essential for casual one-handed fettling before you leave). For the ride then I bring two or three ham, mayo and cheese sandwiches wrapped in tinfoil, a ziplock bag of GORP and a half pack of fig-rolls. For hydration I'll go with up to three litres of water in a Camelbak and a bottle made up with ribena on the bike...if it's extra hot and I know the sweat's gonna be coming off me I'll dump a pack of dioralyte into the ribena. For winter I'll lose the ribena and take a miniflask of hot chocolate in my bag instead - nothing cheers me up more in the rain and sleet

I used to be a big fan of energy gels, iso-this and hydra-that but I find the savoury stuff much more appealing and cheaper, even if it does take a small bit of preparation. Might even have a go at those rice cakes, sounds like a great idea!

Húrin

concussion wrote: »

I'f I'm going out for a long spin I'll start with a huge bowl of porrige and a mug of tea. (the tea is essential for casual one-handed fettling before you leave). For the ride then I bring two or three ham, mayo and cheese sandwiches wrapped in tinfoil, a ziplock bag of GORP and a half pack of fig-rolls. For hydration I'll go with up to three litres of water in a Camelbak and a bottle made up with ribena on the bike...if it's extra hot and I know the sweat's gonna be coming off me I'll dump a pack of dioralyte into the ribena. For winter I'll lose the ribena and take a miniflask of hot chocolate in my bag instead - nothing cheers me up more in the rain and sleet

I used to be a big fan of energy gels, iso-this and hydra-that but I find the savoury stuff much more appealing and cheaper, even if it does take a small bit of preparation. Might even have a go at those rice cakes, sounds like a great idea!

Sounds like some good tips there concussion. I hope you get well soon from your head injury.

concussion

That was a long time ago...unless you know something i don't

Lumen

concussion wrote: »

the tea is essential for casual one-handed fettling before you leave

Too much information.