Easter Monday - GPO Dublin

Hagar · 13-04-2009 9:47am #1

POBLACHT NA h-EIREANN

THE PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF THE
IRISH REPUBLIC
TO THE PEOPLE OF IRELAND

IRISHMAN AND IRISHWOMEN: In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom.

Having organized and trained her manhood through her secret revolutionary organization, the Irish Republican Brotherhood, and through her open military organizations, the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Citizen Army, having patiently perfected her discipline, having resolutely waited for the right moment to reveal itself, she now seizes that moment, and, supported by her exiled children in America and by gallant allies in Europe, but relying in the first on her own strength, she strikes in full confidence of victory.

We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland, and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible. The long usurpation of that right by a foreign people and government has not extinguished the right, nor can it ever be extinguished except by the destruction of the Irish people. In every generation the Irish people have asserted their right to national freedom and sovereignty; six times during the past three hundred years they have asserted it in arms. Standing on that fundamental right and again asserting it in arms in the face of the world, we hereby proclaim the Irish Republic as a Sovereign Independent State. And we pledge our lives and the lives of our comrades-in-arms to the cause of its freedom, of its welfare, and of its exaltation among the nations.

The Irish Republic is entitled to, and hereby claims, the allegiance of every Irishman and Irish woman. The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities of all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally, and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien government, which have divided a minority in the past.

Until our arms have brought the opportune moment for the establishment of a permanent National Government, representative of the whole people of Ireland and elected by the suffrages of all her men and women, the Provision Government, hereby constituted, will administer the civil and military affairs of the Republic in trust for the people.

We place the cause of the Irish Republic under the protection of the Most High God, Whose blessing we invoke upon our arms, and we pray that no one who serves that cause will dishonour it by cowardice, inhumanity, or rapine. In this supreme hour the Irish nation must, by its valour and discipline and by the readiness of its children to sacrifice themselves for the common good, prove itself worthy of the august destiny to which it is called.

Signed on behalf of the Provisional Government,

THOMAS J. CLARKE
SEAN MAC DIERMADA, THOMAS MACDONAGH
P.H.PEARSE, EAMONN CEANNT
JAMES CONNOLLY, JOSEPH PLUNKETT

I just thought someone should post this.

Although sadly the major impetus for the Republic was derived from the martyrdom of the leaders above I have often wondered what would Ireland be like now if those men had lived on. Would we have had partition and the disasterous civil war which followed? How would we be governed now in the absence of "civil war" politics? No FF, no FG. Nobody still fighting the battle of Béal na mBláth. Would our politicians have governed us with a common goal, the good of the Irish people, rather than the petty point scoring that seems to occupy them now? Would a government born of an uprising, like the French, have been less prone to elitism, cronyism and corruption? Ireland then would have been like a newborn baby, how would we have grown up?

Anyone care to speculate?

Permabear · 13-04-2009 11:29am

This post has been deleted.

Hagar · 13-04-2009 11:46am

The French Govt is not immune to corruption but once caught, it has happened at local govt level in my region, the culprits go to gaol. Has that ever happened in Ireland?

silverharp · 13-04-2009 11:51am

I'm guessing you would have been more partial to the original US constitution , is society just doomed to forget its history?

dlofnep · 13-04-2009 11:53am

I read out the proclamation here in Ireland on Saturday. Good post. And yes, I think that the political spectrum would have alot more viable options for sure that this two horse race.

Permabear · 13-04-2009 11:53am

This post has been deleted.

Hagar · 13-04-2009 12:03pm

FF Supporters don't think FF is corrupt, ie 44-48% of the population. Does that mean they're not?

Permabear · 13-04-2009 12:07pm

This post has been deleted.

Permabear · 13-04-2009 12:12pm

This post has been deleted.

PCPhoto · 13-04-2009 12:21pm

My opinion......
in simple - "political influence" is "corruption"

Hagar · 13-04-2009 12:22pm

Precisely the point I was making. If your TD gets you something you're entitled to that's fine. If he gets you something you're not entitled to then that's corruption. He's stealing that resource from the people who need it and are entitled to it. But of course you won't see it that way.

Permabear · 13-04-2009 12:38pm

This post has been deleted.

Hagar · 13-04-2009 12:44pm

And that is why Ireland comes out at 16th on the list you mentioned above. The place is so corrupt, it's the norm so it's not even reported in surveys as corruption. At a guess I'd say Ireland leaves France and maybe even Italy in the ha'penny place for strokes by politicians and their cronies.

RealityCheck · 13-04-2009 2:18pm

So we should have replaced british rule with a local caste system with monarchs elected by land owners and professionals ?

walrusgumble · 13-04-2009 2:49pm

no doubt our friend "the split" could have raised its ugly head at some point if the signatories of the proclamation had continued to live.

in my opinion,had they lived, i believe some form of war would have occured between the carson's unionist and the nationalists. pearse would have continued to see the tradition of force remained and carried on for he had said at the grave of o'donovan rossa - "......... ireland unfree shall never be at peace"

while in prison, an earlier "frognach" (sp)might have being establised, their with more taught out policies and methods of achieving their aims.

Permabear · 13-04-2009 2:52pm

This post has been deleted.

Pride Fighter · 13-04-2009 7:30pm

Donegalfella, from your posts it is obvious you want a decentralised, neo-liberal paradise. I dont think this is possible though as their will always be people trod upon by big business. You could argue that government trods upon us, but I'd prefer a government to trod upon me than a corporation.

Permabear · 13-04-2009 7:44pm

This post has been deleted.

O'Coonassa · 13-04-2009 7:47pm

Indeed. It's also funny that in the Fenian proclamation of the Republic half the nation are dismissed and derided as aristocratic locusts yet the 1916 Proclamation claims these people as cherished children. The 1916 Rising was about as Republican as the Pope.

O'Coonassa · 13-04-2009 7:49pm

You mean things like dropping slavery and introducing a cash economy?

Hagar · 13-04-2009 7:55pm

Isn't every school-child in the USA made stand and pledge alligiance every day before they start class? Would you call the USA a totalitarian state for expecting that of its citizens-to-be?

Pride Fighter · 13-04-2009 7:57pm

Alright, good stuff. I agree with what you are saying, particularly regarding the rubbish that came after freedom. Unfortunately it did not happen though. Maybe Ireland would have had a proper economy had we embraced free trade in the inter-war period and subsequent to the war, with Irish industry unaffected with WW2 we would have a huge advantage in the European markets post WW2.

Permabear · 13-04-2009 8:08pm

This post has been deleted.

Iwasfrozen · 13-04-2009 8:30pm

And we don't have that freedom in Ireland ?

RealityCheck · 13-04-2009 9:19pm

The fact is anarcho capitalism is a pure fantasy.

How do we go from law determined by the state to law determined by the market?

The túatha system flourished only because no external forces impacted upon it. There was no international or national trade. I mean it was a completely different era. It is simply irrational to use the túatha system of 500AD in the context of the world today.

Also,the fact that Gaelic Ireland is one of the only examples of an anarcho capitalist society, shows that it is an impossibility in the context of society now.

Hagar · 13-04-2009 10:12pm

Give it a try, see how far you get in the land of the free the home of the brave. They'll bate seven shades of shyte out of you and yours with the Patriot Act. You'll be blacking up your face and singing Yankee Doodle Dandy on the school bus every moring to try and be accepted in society again.

brianthebard · 13-04-2009 10:41pm

Your romanticisation of pre-Christian Ireland is even more rose tinted, constructed and ahistorical than those posited in the late nineteenth century by most Irish romanticists. Amazing.

Given the treatment of Irish people in Ireland and in Britain for the sin of being Irish for centuries, the denial of freedom of speech and press and general civil liberties, along with conscription by another name, the attempt to prevent workers from organising in a union, and many many other issues of the 1910s, I think the people involved in the rising were justified in believing it was better to throw off the shackles of Imperialism than continue to within the British Empire.

Now if the rebels are to be blamed, criticised or chided for lacking the ability to foresee the future, as you have done in your post, then I must admit it is hard to defend them. But instead if we situate the Rising as part of the broader spread of Irish history pre and post 1916, and consider the reasons for social phenomena such as "hardcore Catholic morality" then we might start to create a more sophisticated narrative.

Nodin · 14-04-2009 7:46am

"Some"? A violent system of tribes, clans etc, based on patronage....Hundreds of church raiding, cattle stealing, feuding Fianna Fails....Fair enough it sounds like great craic if you've a strong right arm, but its hardly a realistic model for society.

The Annals of the four masters is online. Though slow going in places, you should trawl through it.

Permabear · 14-04-2009 9:43am

This post has been deleted.

Permabear · 14-04-2009 9:58am

This post has been deleted.

Exile 1798 · 14-04-2009 10:12am

Who decides what tweaks are necessary?

Permabear · 14-04-2009 10:26am

This post has been deleted.

Exile 1798 · 14-04-2009 10:29am

That's a bit rich.

The people involved in The Rising came from Socialist, Nationalist and Republican traditions.

These are actual political traditions and schools of thought that have been applied by actual people in actual countries all over the actual world.

Your view seems not to exist outside of the internet and the minds of a few cultish kooks.

turgon · 14-04-2009 10:30am

Come on donegalfella, we all know that Human Rights watch is an anti-communist pro-western corrupt organization with a secret plot against Fidel.

And Castros repression is only necessary because of the US embargo. Thats just a given.

turgon · 14-04-2009 10:32am

Erm, not really. Its common knowledge that the Rising did not have popular support at the time. Why else would they have been abused by the "people" and have had food thrown at them? This is historical fact, not mere speculation.

Exile 1798 · 14-04-2009 10:37am

By some people, not the people.

turgon · 14-04-2009 10:40am

Home Rulers were in the majority. Sinn Fein wasnt even heard off properly until the 1918 election. Why is this hard to understand?

Nodin · 14-04-2009 10:47am

Any period up to the mid to late 1600's as far as I'm aware. You'll find it verified in any detailed social history of the various eras. It is in fact common knowledge eg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_Ireland
and

http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/IV58.html

The country rather famously only ever had one king that approached undisputed ruler and it took him some 15-20 years to get there with it collapsing as soon as he died.

Precisely why you want a source for this is rather beyond me.

Exile 1798 · 14-04-2009 10:48am

Oh I understand perfectly.

Why can't you understand that history can't be written on a post card? The fact the a few middle-class Dubliners allegedly abused the prisoners doesn't account for the view of an entire people.

Indeed there are accounts of the rebels being cheered and sheltered in poorer districts of the city. The only reason why the former (alleged) reaction is so ingrained in the minds of people today is because it was elevated as part of the anti-Rising propaganda effort at the time.

And Sinn Fein off course had no involvement in the Rising.

turgon · 14-04-2009 10:50am

Im basing my view on election results. Almost all reps to westminster were home-rulers at the time. There was no widespread support for such extremism until the executions.

Soldie · 14-04-2009 10:52am

So why, do you suppose, the self-proclaimed socialist Seán O'Casey parted ways with the Gaelic League, IGTWU & ICA as they became more and more aligned with militant nationalism? His 1926 play The Plough and the Stars gives a great insight into how he saw the rising as being completely out-of-touch with the common man, and there are plenty of quotes from it which support this.

Whatever about the 'traditions' from which those involved in the rising came from - it was nothing more than a blinkered hard-line republican blood-bath.

Permabear · 14-04-2009 11:12am

This post has been deleted.

LordSutch · 14-04-2009 11:21am

But was it just "a few middle-class Dubliners" who objected to the Rising :cool: > I think not!

I wonder do those accounts you speak of refer to the cheers of their own supporters. (ie; the few converts), & not the general populous of the city! > because the impression I get from every historical account of the 1916 Rising is that it was a very devisive & unpopular event, carried out at a very bad & opportunist time (in the middle of the Great War) no less ...................

There seems to be a bit of skulduggery going on at the moment amongst worshipers of the 1916 leaders, & their attempt to re-write the history of that time > wherby the perpetrators were cheered by most of the people, that they had widespread support, & that the Irish people broadly agreed with their fight & 'their' version of how Ireland should be governed in 1916 :cool:

This is not a History I am familliar with.

Exile 1798 · 14-04-2009 11:38am

The so called Great War was the perfect time to strike.

Who is Ireland's enemy?
Not Germany, nor Spain,
Not Russia, France nor Austria;
They forged for her no chain,
Nor quenched her hearths,
Nor razed her homes,
Nor laid her altars low,
Nor sent her sons to tramp the hills
Amid the winter snow.

....

Not Germany nor Austria,
Not Russia, France nor Spain
That robbed and reaved this land of ours,
And forged her heavy chains;
But England of the wily words --
A crafty, treacherous foe --
'Twas England scourged our Motherland,
'Twas England laid her low!

I certainly don't see anyone trying to do that.

On the other hand, taking the alleged reaction of a few Dubliners and equating that with being THE representation off not just the people of Dublin, but of Ireland definitely smacks of a revisionist effort.

Permabear · 14-04-2009 11:48am

This post has been deleted.

Nodin · 14-04-2009 11:52am

You aren't exactly in a position to say what I have and have not researched. I provided one or two random sources which back up my position, which is one or two more than you've supplied.

So now you're admitting I'm correct.

....because the "Gaelic order" had long been systematically exterminated by a Foriegn power. A centralised nation state ruled by its own citizens would therefore be a legitamate modern alternative. I find it strange that you complained previously about attempts to teach the Irish language. Reinstating Brehon law would hardly be a trot in the park.

Aka "bloody ideal time" depending on which side of the fence etc.

LordSutch · 14-04-2009 11:54am

This is what divides your thinking & my thinking re the rising > this is the very knub of the argument regarding the 'Pros & Cons' of 1916, with over one hundred thousand (maybe more)? Irish troops fighting the Germans on the western front > then the rising takes place .................

With the above in mind, the Rising was only ever going to spark controversy & deep divisions, it could never ever hope to unite the island with the majority of the fighting population with Britain against Germany.

Permabear · 14-04-2009 12:13pm

This post has been deleted.

RealityCheck · 14-04-2009 12:17pm

That is correct. Pre Norman Society was a lot more civilised than post. In fact it could be argued that pre christian society in Ireland was even more civilised and society was more equal.

Can you please explain how the leaders at the time could have gone about setting up such a an ararchic society? and explain to me how the British would have taken this approach seriously?
Basically you are saying we should have back to this society, but you are not saying how this could have been realistically achieved. All empty fanciful notions.

Nodin · 14-04-2009 12:19pm

And how do you think the new system of law would have been enacted...?

Exile 1798 · 14-04-2009 12:20pm

Do I really need to list the prominent IRA Volunteers from the Anlgo-Irish War that formerly served in the British army? It's a long time since I read Tom Barry's book but from memory he was serving with the British in Iraq when he heard of The Rising and couldn’t wait to get home and join the fight.

Most Irishmen who enlisted weren’t Union Jack waving God Save The King types, they joined because of circumstance and false promises.

'Twas Britannia bade our Wild Geese go that small nations might be free
But their lonely graves are by Sulva's waves or the shore of the Great North Sea
Oh, had they died by Pearse's side or fought with Cathal Brugha
Their names we will keep where the fenians sleep 'neath the shroud of the foggy dewNeath the shroud of The Foggey Due

And if you want to talk about "blood sacrifice" then look no further then your Ulster Unionist pals who to this day celebrate the slaughter of an entire generation of their men for the King… as if it where a great thing.

Easter Monday - GPO Dublin

Comments