Day off for Easter

dny123456

Public service, extra day off for Easter.... why? why why?

couerdelion

Which extra day do they get?

Senna

yep, they get the Tuesday as well. Heard someone in the pub taking about his wife having the day off, he called it something like her "entitled day" or something similar. I assume he was just taking the piss, but god knows with the PS.

ixoy

They get it as a "privilege day". Historically the reason, I believe, was that in times of yore the civil servant would, after celebrating our Good Lord's miracle on Easter Monday, have to hop into his horse'n'trap and clop up all the way to his work place from his home town.

Naturally there's faster transport means now but the CS/PS would tight tooth-and-nail for this day that, I believe, isn't counted as part of the standard 23/24 days they get even though they don't have to take it tomorrow (especially if they have to work tomorrow). It's the sort of thing that should be axed in any reform.

Gumbo

Senna wrote: »

yep, they get the Tuesday as well. Heard someone in the pub taking about his wife having the day off, he called it something like her "entitled day" or something similar. I assume he was just taking the piss, but god knows with the PS.

we dont all get tuesday off! my office (local authority) is open as usual on tuesday, those that are off on tuesday in my place are using days holiday.

ardmacha

Exactly. The public service do not have a day off, the civil service do. If you are going to whine about something then at least whine about the right group of people.

lmimmfn

theres feck all wrong with that, my partner works in the civil service and gets 20 days off per year and 2 privilege days( 1 easter and 1 christmas and they must be taken within a month of when theyre given ). I work in the private sector and get 25 days per year. Im all for public service bashing lol, but not on this.

ceret

Friend of mine works in the PS/CS. He got Good Friday off, Easter Monday and Tuesday off. I, as a private sector employee only got the statutory required Easter Monday off.

It's this sort of excessive holidays that pissed me off about the PS/CS.

Senna

privilege days..with terms like that, its no wonder the public has the opinions it has of the PS/CS.

lmimmfn

Senna wrote: »

privilege days..with terms like that, its no wonder the public has the opinions it has of the PS/CS.

theres a lot more s**t that needs sorting in the public sector than 2 stupid days that make their yearly holiday count 22 days. 22 days in any job is nothing special, what about the guaranteed job security? or guaranteed generous pension? or the insane prices we pay for some individual public sector employees? or insane overtime + rates?

Last i checked we have none of that in the private sector, about time Cowen maybe used a bit of cop on and sorted it rather than tax us to the hilt without actually trying to curb expenditure!!!!!

sceptre

lmimmfn wrote: »

theres a lot more s**t that needs sorting in the public sector than 2 stupid days that make their yearly holiday count 22 days.

Ignoring for a moment that some civil service employees start with more than 20, making their total larger than 22, one could reasonably argue that the 2 days accounts for ~1% of the total civil service wage bill, which adds up to quite an amount. Or ~1% of the total man-hours available, which makes it a additional saving factor in extra potential layoffs without any reduction in productivity.

ixoy

sceptre wrote: »

Ignoring for a moment that some civil service employees start with more than 20, making their total larger than 22, one could reasonably argue that the 2 days accounts for ~1% of the total civil service wage bill, which adds up to quite an amount. Or ~1% of the total man-hours available, which makes it a additional saving factor in extra potential layoffs without any reduction in productivity.

Precisely. I'd also say there's an argument for making the standard day longer - as it stands it's 6hr57 mins and from that you can deduct two 15 min breaks so it's only 6hr27mins work a day. If we bumped the day to 7hr30mins, we could make more additional savings to offset any layoffs. Anything beyond that could be time-in-lieu.

NewDubliner

ixoy wrote: »

Precisely. I'd also say there's an argument for making the standard day longer - as it stands it's 6hr57 mins and from that you can deduct two 15 min breaks so it's only 6hr27mins work a day. If we bumped the day to 7hr30mins, we could make more additional savings to offset any layoffs. Anything beyond that could be time-in-lieu.

You're assuming that longer hours lead to additional productivity.

ixoy

NewDubliner wrote: »

You're assuming that longer hours lead to additional productivity.

I don't think it's a giant leap to think that an extra half hour could be used productively? By your logic, we could argue for everyone to work 5 hours a day on the basis anything outside of that is unproductive.

Even if people worked only half as well for that extra half hour, that's still 15mins per person of extra work spread across. That's still a gain unless you believe they'd be thumb twiddling, which is feeding into a negative stereotype that neither of us believe is true.

kippy

It really is amazing how this stuff is right in the middle of the radar now yet has been in existence for years. Surely these things should have been done away with years ago?
I really cant see how PS/CS and their unions would give away these two days after the cuts they've had so far and the cuts they are going to be taking in the next few budgets.

As mentioned there are far more wastages and places money can be saved than with this particular "perk".

NewDubliner

ixoy wrote: »

I don't think it's a giant leap to think that an extra half hour could be used productively? By your logic, we could argue for everyone to work 5 hours a day on the basis anything outside of that is unproductive.

Most people are not productive all of the time. You're clearly a fan of 'presentism'.

ixoy

NewDubliner wrote: »

Most people are not productive all of the time. You're clearly a fan of 'presentism'.

Do you honestly believe people can't work 7.5 hour days without the last half hour being comprised of just sitting there? Do you think people only have 420 mins productivity in them that's spread over their day? I firmly believe, from my own work and that of colleagues, that people can easily do 450 minutes a day without tiring out and, indeed, longer (as many would testify to over on the Work & Jobs thread about hours a week).

grahamo

dny123456 wrote: »

Public service, extra day off for Easter.... why? why why?

Big Deal! So the civil service get 2 privelege days a year. Don't the private sector get 3 "Floating days" a year.

grahamo

ceret wrote: »

Friend of mine works in the PS/CS. He got Good Friday off, Easter Monday and Tuesday off. I, as a private sector employee only got the statutory required Easter Monday off.

It's this sort of excessive holidays that makes me incredibly jealous ofthe PS/CS.

fixed it for you

sceptre

grahamo wrote: »

Big Deal! So the civil service get 2 privelege days a year. Don't the private sector get 3 "Floating days" a year.

I'm not aware that they do. Got any details or semi-tangible evidence?

Tazdedub

Jaysus folks can we stop this public sector vs the private sector. Some jobs have better holidays and conditions than other jobs and thats just the way it is. I work in the private sector and I get 2 company days a year which I can take during the year, is this not the same as these privilege days?

What needs to be focused on is the inefficencies in the public sector? The fat needs to be trimmed, but this is not the fault of the people that work there but the fault of their employers.

Why dont you get onto the employers in the Public services to get the finger out and do something about it?

Its about time people stop this public vs private and focus on the real problem and that is the politicians and the what they have done with our money over the boom years.

AARRRGH

Tazdedub wrote: »

Some jobs have better holidays and conditions than other jobs and thats just the way it is.

I think the problem is people are saying it makes no sense for the civil service to have today off. Especially when it's our tax money paying for it.

It's just another example of the bizarre privileges the civil service are entitled to.

Btw, loads of private companies offer less than 22 days holidays per year.

Tazdedub

AARRRGH wrote: »

I think the problem is people are saying it makes no sense for the civil service to have today off. Especially when it's our tax money paying for it.

It's just another example of the bizarre privileges the civil service are entitled to.

And I bet there are other people out there in the private sector that have some other bizarre entitlements as well that other people in the private sector dont get, it just depends on the employer and unfortunately for everyone in the country that pays tax both private and public workers it is the fools in the Dail that are the employers of the public sector.

What I am saying is that this public vs private sector argument that is going on needs to stop and the focus needs to go on the people who are in charge of running the publin sector namely the government.

Tazdedub

AARRRGH wrote: »

I think the problem is people are saying it makes no sense for the civil service to have today off. Especially when it's our tax money paying for it.

It's just another example of the bizarre privileges the civil service are entitled to.

Btw, loads of private companies offer less than 22 days holidays per year.

And like I said before some companies in the private sector may offer better holidays that other companies in the private sector. Are you saying that everyone should be on the same holidays?

Mr E

It was covered on the Joe Duffy show today. By God did the Public Service guys come off as whingy moaners. I'm sure it'll be up here later.

Tazdedub

sceptre wrote: »

I'm not aware that they do. Got any details or semi-tangible evidence?

Sceptre in the private sector it is up to the employer. I know I get 2 company days are year. The company nominate the 2 days and I can either take those days or take another day. Is this not the same as privilage days? How many other companies offer company days?

Sarn

lmimmfn wrote: »

theres feck all wrong with that, my partner works in the civil service and gets 20 days off per year and 2 privilege days( 1 easter and 1 christmas and they must be taken within a month of when theyre given ). I work in the private sector and get 25 days per year. Im all for public service bashing lol, but not on this.

These are the holidays I get as well for working in a public agency. Some of my friends in the private sector have more holidays than me, some have less. As mentioned, different jobs have different benefits. I think the problem is that the term "privilege day" rubs people up the wrong way.

Regarding breaks, I only get one 15 min break, if I have the time to take it.

I also heard the Joe Duffy show. I think some made some good points considering they were being attacked unnecessarily.

Tazdedub

Mr E wrote: »

It was covered on the Joe Duffy show today. By God did the Public Service guys come off as whingy moaners. I'm sure it'll be up here later.

I can understand it, the way some people are going on about the public service, its seems people are blaming them for the problem the country is in. There was one caller on there who was pretty bad.

I look at it this way if say a company in the private sector says that 23rd of april is a company day and closes for that day should everyone ring up liveline saying that a company in the private sector has closed for the day but my company hasnt.

Like I said everyone needs to stop whinging and get start getting angry at the government, they are the ones that got the country into this mess and are not doing anything to fix it, thats where everyones anger should be going.

grahamo

sceptre wrote: »

I'm not aware that they do. Got any details or semi-tangible evidence?

I have worked in the engineering industry all my working life. Every company I have worked in gave workers 3 "floating days" or "company days or whatever you want to call them. These could be taken anytime. For instance, you could take one the day your car had to go for an NCT or a service.

sceptre

grahamo wrote: »

I have worked in the engineering industry all my working life. Every company I have worked in gave workers 3 "floating days" or "company days or whatever you want to call them. These could be taken anytime. For instance, you could take one the day your car had to go for an NCT or a service.

OK, well I realise that just like you I'm only talking one company at a time so it's not necessarily indicative of the private sector in its entirety but from my experience we can rule out the manufacturing sector, financial sector and IT sector. Rather than treat the entire "private sector" as one massive behemoth, which of course it isn't.

Sarn wrote: »

I think the problem is that the term "privilege day" rubs people up the wrong way.

I suspect you're correct. If they're holidays, call them holidays. If that's a 22-day holiday entitlement, call it that.

Kimbot

I get 2 priveledge days a year.... big woop!

In the private sector 8 years ago I got 25 days leave a year with 3 extra days to cover over christmas when the place was closed for holidays!! So in fact I got 28 days leave per year.

Now I get 24 days off (22 annual and 2 priveledge).... this country really has become full of begrudging f00ls that don't have a clue whats going on around them!

LoLth

grahamo wrote: »

I have worked in the engineering industry all my working life. Every company I have worked in gave workers 3 "floating days" or "company days or whatever you want to call them. These could be taken anytime. For instance, you could take one the day your car had to go for an NCT or a service.

perhaps they are confusing them with the irish term for them... "sickies"

I worked in several companies over the years and yes, not all gave these floating days. they were a perk that I was very happy to receive whenever i got them and they came in very useful. queuing to put my name down on a house, needed a day off work or I would have missed my chance, given, no worries. kitchen flooded from a leak, had to wait for a plumber, rang in, given , no problem. sure it happens to everyone. I did work in one place however, that forced me to save 5 days holidays for christmas because the bosses didnt want to come in ( i argued that one and made it clear that I would happily work stephen's day and that I had no intention of saving my holidays for it. in the end they gave the company the day off rather than cancel their holidays - bosses were married to each other and didnt trust anyone to open up the business by themselves). Anyway, I had to go to court as a witness, i gave plenty of notice but I had no holidays left.. so the company docked me a days wages for doing my civic duty...gits.

Never had a "company day" but I can see where the idea is a good one. heres a calendar day, you can take your company day within a month of the date provided.

handy for emergencies. More companies should do that.

ps: sectors were:
financial services : got emergency days (3 per year)
IT (financial services): yes: 3 per year
IT (support): nope
IT (payroll services): yep (2 per year)
IT (IT services): yep 3 per year
IT (IT services): nope

irish_bob

Tazdedub wrote: »

I can understand it, the way some people are going on about the public service, its seems people are blaming them for the problem the country is in. There was one caller on there who was pretty bad.

I look at it this way if say a company in the private sector says that 23rd of april is a company day and closes for that day should everyone ring up liveline saying that a company in the private sector has closed for the day but my company hasnt.

Like I said everyone needs to stop whinging and get start getting angry at the government, they are the ones that got the country into this mess and are not doing anything to fix it, thats where everyones anger should be going.

the ps is largely to blame for the current mess , the reason our class sizes are so big is due to the fact that the majority of expenditure on education goes towards teachers wages as opposed to actual buildings
the reason we have such a shortage of beds in our hospitals is due to the fact that so much of expenditure on health goes towards our ( highest paid in europe ) nurses , another reason we have a shortage of beds in hospitals is so much of expenditure goes towards paying adminsitrators in hospitals who are unsackable due to the union grip on our politicans and the fact that a job lost in the public sector means a vote lost for local fianna fail td,s
the reason the banks went to pot is down to the fact that the financial regulator took permanent leave from his post

so spare us the now three month old cliche of WE DIDNT CAUSE THIS MESS

Heroditas

jonny24ie wrote: »

I get 2 priveledge days a year.... big woop!

In the private sector 8 years ago I got 25 days leave a year with 3 extra days to cover over christmas when the place was closed for holidays!! So in fact I got 28 days leave per year.

Now I get 24 days off (22 annual and 2 priveledge).... this country really has become full of begrudging f00ls that don't have a clue whats going on around them!

If you had better holidays in your private sector job, why did you leave it?

Kimbot

Heroditas wrote: »

If you had better holidays in your private sector job, why did you leave it?

Because I wanted to work in the CS and had applied 2 years before hand, done the tests and interviews and was top of the list to get into the Civil Service. I decided that handing out post everyday was no good and moved to the Civil Service where now I am an experienced Computer Programmer and technician.
My work varies from day to day and I work with some of the most dedicated staff I have ever had the pleasure of working with. Granted there is some waste in the service but not as much now as there was when I started!


Up until the recession people only went to job that paid the best money for their skills. This was not the civil service and still is not the civil service. Yet as soon as times are hard the public sector as a whole get it in the ear from people that had the oppertunity to work in the public service but didn't want to as they thought the jobs were beneath them!


Remember, holidays are not a reason to choose a job either!

Heroditas

jonny24ie wrote: »

Because I wanted to work in the CS

In the CS in general or specifically in the role that you are now in?

grahamo

AARRRGH wrote: »

I think the problem is people are saying it makes no sense for the civil service to have today off. Especially when it's our tax money paying for it.

It's just another example of the bizarre privileges the civil service are entitled to.

Btw, loads of private companies offer less than 22 days holidays per year.

I doubt that. Isn't the minimum holidays for full time workers 21 days?

grahamo

irish_bob wrote: »

the ps is largely to blame for the current mess , the reason our class sizes are so big is due to the fact that the majority of expenditure on education goes towards teachers wages as opposed to actual buildings the reason we have such a shortage of beds in our hospitals is due to the fact that so much of expenditure on health goes towards our ( highest paid in europe ) nurses , another reason we have a shortage of beds in hospitals is so much of expenditure goes towards paying adminsitrators in hospitals who are unsackable due to the union grip on our politicans and the fact that a job lost in the public sector means a vote lost for local fianna fail td,s
the reason the banks went to pot is down to the fact that the financial regulator took permanent leave from his post

so spare us the now three month old cliche of WE DIDNT CAUSE THIS MESS

What a load of utter ****e! Please get your facts straight!

ceret

grahamo wrote: »

I doubt that. Isn't the minimum holidays for full time workers 21 days?

20 days per year I think.

That's all I get. Non of these floating/company days. And my company was open on Good Friday, and Tuesday (today). If I wanted that off that has to come out of my allotment of holidays.

ixoy

ceret wrote: »

20 days per year I think.

Correct. That's what I get. I can build up a few more by working overtime although not 18. I'm in today and my equivalent of a priviledge day was to get Good Friday off. From speaking to friends the general figure is 23-25. I get less because I can build overtime holidays (as, of course, can the CS).

On a side note, I am a bit amused that RTE used the phrase "horse'n'trap" on Liveline when talking about this. It's hardly a normal one but it's the one I happened to use in my post above...

Tazdedub

irish_bob wrote: »

the ps is largely to blame for the current mess , the reason our class sizes are so big is due to the fact that the majority of expenditure on education goes towards teachers wages as opposed to actual buildings
the reason we have such a shortage of beds in our hospitals is due to the fact that so much of expenditure on health goes towards our ( highest paid in europe ) nurses , another reason we have a shortage of beds in hospitals is so much of expenditure goes towards paying adminsitrators in hospitals who are unsackable due to the union grip on our politicans and the fact that a job lost in the public sector means a vote lost for local fianna fail td,s
the reason the banks went to pot is down to the fact that the financial regulator took permanent leave from his post

so spare us the now three month old cliche of WE DIDNT CAUSE THIS MESS

Irish Bob I think you are wrong. I dont think they did cause it. What caused it was the government led by Bertie Ahern throwing money out left right and centre without and thought or care for the consquences on this.

I work in the private sector and if my employer offered me the sort of pay rises that were offered during the social partnership agreements of the last few years do you think I would say no? Do you think anyone would say no?

The only difference is that the private sector are much more careful on how they spend their budgets, unlike the Bertie government which thought that the well would never run dry so agreed to everything and anything.

So I dont blame the Public service for getting the best deal they could in the boom years, I dont blame the public service for fighting to keep the deals that their employers (the government) were stupid enough to sign. I dont blame anyone who got better wages than me or more holidays than me, that is the nature of jobs and companies. Some are good to work for and give good wages and holidays and others are not.

There is only one place to lay the blame and that is firmly at the feet of the government, there is no one else. Are they not the ones that agreed to huge pay rises but without the improvement in services? Are they now not the ones that wont tackle the public service wage bill but rather prefer to have this them and us agrument?

ardmacha

This thread is a good example of the pointless begrudgery that has been let loose in recent times. Civil service holidays have been around for years and have not had any effect on the present economic conditions. Jobs have particular packages of conditions, you can only look at them in the round. Civil service holidays are probably not much different from other bureaucratic employments. Nor are Irish public service holidays out of line with other Euro area countries, so are not directly the cause of any lack of competitiveness. Wages may have been too high, but this was an attempt to seek compensation for the cost of living caused by high prices charged by the private sector. The public sector has its problems, but the "board" of the organisation was voted in by the public who are therefore responsible as much as anyone for the deficiencies in its management.

On whineline there was a person giving out about this "privilege" day, he said that he was self employed and did not have paid holidays. No doubt this is true and no doubt business is not as good as it was, but self employment has other flexibilities that a bureaucratic job does not have. If you asked this person two years ago he probably would have said that he liked being his own boss and that he wouldn't like to do a 9-5 job!!

ixoy

I think this wouldn't have much of an eye lid batted at it, were it not for the "priviledge" in the title. It conjures up a sense of elite entitlement and that leads to people recollecting all the other entitlements - many are now being relenquished in the private sector, not so much in the public.
If this were just added to the hoiday count, it wouldn't have been such a big deal (add a day to the annual leave and force them to take it on this day).

BroomBurner

ixoy wrote: »

I think this wouldn't have much of an eye lid batted at it, were it not for the "priviledge" in the title. It conjures up a sense of elite entitlement and that leads to people recollecting all the other entitlements - many are now being relenquished in the private sector, not so much in the public.
If this were just added to the hoiday count, it wouldn't have been such a big deal (add a day to the annual leave and force them to take it on this day).

First off, you can't convert it to Annual Leave and then force it to be taken on one particular day, what's the point of calling it AL then?

Secondly, what day exactly would people be forced to take it on? At the moment, it can be used the day before, day after, or within a month of the event.

Thirdly, I've always believed that the word "privilege" was to convey something you were lucky for, i.e. the saying "...is a right, not a priviledge". If other people take it up as an entitlement, then so be it. And people, don't bother giving me dictionary references, I know what the word means.

Fourthly, and finally, yes, it isn't a necessary day off, and it could be easily revoked and I wouldn't be too upset if it was.

ixoy

BroomBurner wrote: »

First off, you can't convert it to Annual Leave and then force it to be taken on one particular day, what's the point of calling it AL then?

Actually you can - that's perfectly within the bounds of the law. It's not a popular move but I've seen people here talking about how they're forced to take annual leave at Christmas.

Thirdly, I've always believed that the word "privilege" was to convey something you were lucky for, i.e. the saying "...is a right, not a priviledge". If other people take it up as an entitlement, then so be it. And people, don't bother giving me dictionary references, I know what the word means.

Technically, you're perfectly correct but I've found people misuse the word!

Fourthly, and finally, yes, it isn't a necessary day off, and it could be easily revoked and I wouldn't be too upset if it was.

It's not a huge deal but it does highlight, in a way, how hard it is for people to give up anything, especially when they're a large group.

I'd be far more interested in getting a mandatory 7hr30 minute day (with flexibility) to be honest - that would add more value (longer opening hours for example) and bring the working week more in line with the private sector that they want to be bench marked against.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Less of the PS/CS bashing, it's tiresome... the workers get a bollocking when they are only working, they take what they are given, any one of you would do the same thing, smell of jealousy off this thread...

Kimbot

Heroditas wrote: »

In the CS in general or specifically in the role that you are now in?

In I.T. mainly first of all, I started in the service, 4 years later with exams and interviews I passed them and got moved into I.T. (Where I am now).

stevoman

This whole PS arguement is just becoming a whingey whiney witchhunt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so what if civil sevant get 2 (yes 2) privalage days a year on top of 20 days holidays.

dont forget that for christamas they only get christmas day, st stephens day and then a privalage day off. after that any holidays or time off they have to take comes out of their annual leave.

This whole arguement is just becoming an old Irish begrugery fiasco IMO.

A couple of years ago they couldnt even get the applicants into the exam halls for a job becaouse F all wanted to work for the civil service.

ixoy

stevoman wrote: »

dont forget that for christamas they only get christmas day, st stephens day and then a privalage day off. after that any holidays or time off they have to take comes out of their annual leave.

What do you mean that's "all" they get - I've never worked in anywhere that got more than that. Maybe it's a feature of SMEs?

This whole arguement is just becoming an old Irish begrugery fiasco IMO.

Meh, the privilege day thing is being overblown a little to be honest. There's better arguments to be made about the working hours or the total holidays built up with a little bit of overtime.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I couldn't begrudge (and begrudery is all it is) anybody getting 20 days leave and 2 privilege days. I get 29 days in addition to Bank Holidays, Good Friday, and Christmas Day, St Stephens day and the next day. Let's not pretend that only the public service get a good deal and that nobody works as long or as hard as we do. It's sickening to see Irish workers (mostly in the private sector) at the throats of every other worker in the country the instant the good times stuttered.