Ireland 1989 v Ireland 2009

AckwelFoley

Im just old enough to remember how shiite the 80's were. Lived the Celtic Tiger, rode it, and fell off it just before it hit the wall.

Now while we can all accept that the country is in economic turmoil, not seen since yes- the stinking 80's we have a very different society now than we did 20 years ago.

I do understand that there are many of you members here were not born by 1989 and others only infants, but for those of you in your 30's you would have been old enough to observe and somehow compare the 2.

I think the biggest single difference is the debt that each individual has now, i think alot of the people that receive loans to buy houses were in thir 20s and couldnt remember the 80's a time when nobody had anything only a job and a dream to leave the country.

We also have a much more multicultural society. We are for better or for worse changed, personally i choose to see the positives of this, rather than look at any posible negatives, but there is no doubt a big difference, 20 years ago the only time i would have seen a black person was when we would go to dublin, now i think its fair to say, anyone living in a urban setting would know a black, Asian or eastern european family.

The other big difference is we dont jave as many swans, im not sure as to why that is.

So.. Are we better off now or would a time warp back to 89 be preferred

thelordofcheese

snyper wrote: »

The other big difference is we dont jave as many swans, im not sure as to why that is.

It's because they're so damn tasty.

luckylucky

i cant remember 1989

I'm not living in Ireland anymore but I hear all the gloom and doom from boards and elsewhere - People who don't remember 1989 might kid themselves into thinking we are worse off than then, but I think things were so bad back then, that even this world economic crisis and all its crapness wouldn't be anywhere enough to send us back to those sorta days, and we are perhaps better equipped to get through this now. We managed to come out of a worse time back in the eighties, so we can do it again, hopefully with a few lessons(albeit painful ones) learned.

jimmycrackcorm

i cant remember 1989

Bad as things are now 1989 was so much worse.

Mr.Lizard

i cant remember 1989

I was only a kid back then and I loved my childhood years in the 80's (best years of my life) but even at that I'd still reckon now is the better time to be living in Ireland. There did seem to be a general vibe about the country of being resigned to defeat and inferior to the rest of the first world. That's what all the Brit bashing was about back then. The stuff that you don't really see much anymore from Irish people. Pure inferiority complex on our part imho. We've a lot to thank Jack Charlton and the Irish football team for. They gave the country a belief for the first time that we were truely just as good as anyone else out there (and not just in football I mean).

Ireland is more or less a country of the modern world now. We've grown up and been accepted to the table. 20 years ago we were something like the current countries of Eastern Europe. The level of excitement success in something like the Eurovision Song Contest should be an indicator to most that there was really nothing going for this place back then. We (rightly) sneer at countries who take that contest seriously these days (eg the Eastern block) but they do serve to show us what we ourselves were like only 15-20 or so years ago.

We've come a long way and for the better imho.

godtabh

Back then we probaly didnt know how bad it was. These days with 24 hour media, newspapers, internet etc its in our face 24 hours a day and were are told every 5 mins how bad it was.

Latchy

2009 shall do.

I remember 1989 so well but left Ireland the previous year because of the then recession so the whole celtic tiger thing was something I never expierenced .Ireland and Irish society has changed so much since then and I always feel more an observer looking in when I do vist .I dont think it will be as bad as the 80s ,not in the sense were everybody bar a few was skint .It will be different for sure and budgeting will be something many are going to have to learn to do better.

NotMe

2009 shall do.

1989... 2nd class. The only things worth worrying about then were not getting caught while playing chasing and having the biggest conker. Good times.

RATM

1989....meh
1988...Who stuck the ball in the english net, Houghton, Houghton. Class. Bring me back.

steo87

snyper wrote: »

Lived the Celtic Tiger, rode it

You rode the Celtic Tiger? No wonder we're in this mess

Agamemnon

i cant remember 1989

I think we're better off now - back in '89, people were more defeated by the situation. It seemed like the natural order of things for Irish people to emigrate if they wanted a decent life. It always was that way and it looked like it always would be.

But the boom changed all that and we realized that we can have it as good here as anywhere else. The general attitude to the recession seems to be that we're in for a few rough years but we'll get through it and come back better than ever.

Although personally, I'd like to be in 1989 again if it meant that I could be a kid again. The summer of '89 was scorching hot and I spent most of it with my friends building secret bases in the woods, playing soccer and hurling, making weapons to fight our enemies, reading comics and playing with Transformers and Action Force toys. An 80s childhood was the best of the lot.

Zillah

The very idea of comparing them is ridiculous. I'm so sick of hearing this recession nonsense. Our standard of living is still amongst the best in world, such melodrama.

Oh noe we're not glutted on staggering levels of economic growth anymore, how will we survive?

Dudess

I remember things being a lot more drab and dreary than they are now, but the 80s was a great time to be a kid. None of the crap realities affected me so 1989 was pretty awesome.

Dudess

Zillah wrote: »

I'm so sick of hearing this recession nonsense. Our standard of living is still amongst the best in world, such melodrama.

Oh noe we're not glutted on staggering levels of economic growth anymore, how will we survive?

That would only be a valid point if people weren't losing their jobs at a rate of knots, and it's not only the greedy idiots who have huge debts to pay.

My name is URL

i cant remember 1989

In 1989 the times were tough but our expectations and lifestyles were on par with it.

Now, times are tough again and we have alot more expectation and far more lavish lifestyles to support, so now is probably worse than '89

AlmightyCushion

I was 2 in 1989 so 2009 me would easily kick 1989 me's ass.

rossie1977

let me see what was the difference between 1989 and 2009

well everyone didn't have a huge flashy car or 25 bedroom house back then, apart from that we didn't have the four miles of motorway we have today :rolleyes: and we didn't have any british chain stores and aldi/lidl, outside of that pretty much the same around this part of the country

Calibos

I was born in '74 so most of my childhood and early teen years was in the 80's, While obviously only a kid and shielded from the harshest ifinancial realities of the times by my parents, I wasn't totally shielded and knew money was tight. Sparsley furnished house, 10 year old rusted banger outside, double digit mortgage interest rates, paycuts and missed weeks of pay, irish holiday instead of foreign. But no one seemed terribly unhappy to this kids eyes.

So from my perspective, this current recession doesn't seem as bad as the one in the 80's and do you know what, the 80's recession wasn't 'really' bad from a day to day perspective tbh.

All it means is that the current generation up to 30 years old will have to get used to the idea one can't change the car every 2 years and one can't expect that car to be an audi or beemer, one can't go on the skiing holiday in winter and the sun holiday in Summer and the continental or New York weekends away at Christmas, Easter and September, one can't expect to buy the new house and have it fully furnished with every single appliance from day one.

Yes, those people losing their jobs at the moment are losing the above standard of living they became accustomed to and even losing the house. But guess what, they won't starve, they'll find some place to stay, Oh Noes, they'll have to cut back on the 4 nights in the pub and restaurant.

They way people are going on you would swear they were being shipped out to the slums of Calcutta.

Things will get better and it will be them in a few years who raise their eyes to heaven at the next generation proclaiming that the world is about to end with the next recession

Fighting Irish

i cant remember 1989

I think 2009 will be better, in my opinion the only way stupid people will learn is to let them fail (running up huge loans etc etc)
Hopefully the celtic tiger and the fall out will open peoples eyes

Dudess

Calibos wrote: »

I was born in '74 so most of my childhood and early teen years was in the 80's, While obviously only a kid and shielded from the harshest ifinancial realities of the times by my parents, I wasn't totally shielded and knew money was tight. Sparsley furnished house, 10 year old rusted banger outside, double digit mortgage interest rates, paycuts and missed weeks of pay, irish holiday instead of foreign. But no one seemed terribly unhappy to this kids eyes.

'78 babby here - yep, people with no car or phone at all. And I'm from a very middle-class area - parts of it are even a bit upmarket. Going "abroad" on holidays meant England. People who went to Spain were considered super-duper rich. Getting electrical equipment was a huge deal (although to be fair, it was so much more expensive back then). Going to restaurants was only for special occasions, not the daily occurrence it was up to recently.

All it means is that the current generation up to 30 years old will have to get used to the idea one can't change the car every 2 years and one can't expect that car to be an audi or beemer, one can't go on the skiing holiday in winter and the sun holiday in Summer and the continental or New York weekends away at Christmas, Easter and September, one can't expect to buy the new house and have it fully furnished with every single appliance from day one.

Yes, those people losing their jobs at the moment are losing the above standard of living they became accustomed to and even losing the house. But guess what, they won't starve, they'll find some place to stay, Oh Noes, they'll have to cut back on the 4 nights in the pub and restaurant.

They way people are going on you would swear they were being shipped out to the slums of Calcutta.

Again people thought this is only what the current recession would entail, and those of us who were sensible during the boom could afford to feel a bit smug towards the greedy, irresponsible types... but nobody foresaw the amount of jobs being lost and the amount of other cutbacks in the workplace, e.g. contracts not being renewed despite somebody being needed to do the work.
For some people now, losing their job means having to support children and make substantial mortgage repayments on the dole (even modestly priced houses were ridiculously expensive during the boom). This is not akin to "oh no, I'll have to give up luxuries". Even sensible people with no debts and a bit of money saved are finding themselves in the above situation. So the fact they weren't eejits during the boom is of little comfort really.
Some people won't be affected by the recession other than having to cut down on luxuries, but for others, it's genuinely the stuff of nightmares. I don't think it's fair to downplay just how bad things are. I also think it's a bit flippant to say "oh if you lose your house you won't be homeless" - for starters, I wouldn't be inclined to consider that a definite across the board. If you're drowning in debt and your only income is dole, then you're probably not even going to be able to afford rent. And there may not be anyone around with whom you can stay.
And even if you lose your house and manage to find somewhere to stay, it's still reasonable to consider that a rather traumatic upheaval. Imagine a family of five going from their own house to renting a squalid hole.
I'm no longer smug that I was sensible during the Celtic Tiger as my contract's up soon and ain't being renewed, but I still feel damn lucky that I won't be in any of the above situations. Looking down on those who were greedy eejits and lost everything might be a fun sport for some, but what should be borne in mind is: not everyone who has lost everything was a greedy eejit.

Actually I think this recession will be worse because of the colossal amount of personal debt today.

994

2009 shall do.

'89 was a good year. Sleeping 14 hours a day, breast milk on tap, inability to conceive of a world outside myself. Can't go back...

ejmaztec

The good old days when people used to drive their rusting pieces of sh1t through the pot-holes until the rust finally turned to powder. They would then go and buy another car for £10, even though it was only worth £5.

Mr.Lizard

i cant remember 1989

ejmaztec wrote: »

The good old days when people used to drive their rusting pieces of sh1t through the pot-holes until the rust finally turned to powder. They would then go and buy another car for £10, even though it was only worth £5.

Better spending £10 on a £5 car back in 89 than spending €600,000 on a €300,000 house in 2005.

pcardin

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

Ireland is more or less a country of the modern world now. We've grown up and been accepted to the table. 20 years ago we were something like the current countries of Eastern Europe.

Ireland 20 Years ago was something like Eastern Europe in 1992-1994 but not current as they tend to grow much faster than Ireland ever did.

Slidey

2009 shall do.

I was 9, had just learned to masturbate...I was an early starter...

It was from these giddy heights with a right arm like popeye that I thought things could only get better.

Unfortunately, getting caught watching my old wans exercise video while sitting cross legged on the living room floor put a dampner on things and breaking my mahoooosive right arm that summer was the start of the downward spiral...

If only I could go back

Placid_Casual

i cant remember 1989

Leaving aside any economic argument, Ireland in 1989 was a far more socially conservative (some might say repressed) place than Ireland today.

So, 2009 is infinitely preferable in my eyes.

ejmaztec

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

Better spending £10 on a £5 car back in 89 than spending €600,000 on a €300,000 house in 2005.

You could have bought Kerry for £600,000 in 1989 (probably less now).:pac:

OPENROAD

1989 was to have a huge impact on my life, I started supporting Arsenal

Mars Bar

I can't remember '89 coz I only came into existence in July of '89! But you can be damn sure the music was better back then...
Because I can't remember the hard times then, it makes it much better than now!

Terry

i cant remember 1989

My first time on a plane.
It was a Manx air one. 35 seater or thereabouts.
My father was one of those lucky enough to have a full time job. Even at that, we could still only afford a trip to the Isle of Man.
First/second year in Confey College. Sitting in a prefab that was freezing in the Winter and roasting in the Summer. Detention every day from October of that year until December of the following year. It prepared me for my current life of solitude.

Happy times.

ScumLord

i cant remember 1989

I was born 1980, our summer holidays always took place within half a tank of petrol (the other half was to get home). The west coast of Ireland was as far away as we ever got. The first time we questioned santa we where quickly told he wasn't real and we'd be getting our Christmas presents in the January sales from now on.

Dudess

Terry wrote: »

My first time on a plane.
It was a Manx air one. 35 seater or thereabouts.

It was always the ferry for us.

Terry

i cant remember 1989

Dudess wrote: »

It was always the ferry for us.

Must resist crude joke...

bunny shooter

i cant remember 1989

Did leaving in '86 went to London till '94

Things ain't as bad here as '86 hope they don't get as bad

Mars Bar

A guy I know, who is turning 90 this year, remembers the great depression and is not worried one bit about the one we are in now. He says it's all hyped up and we just need to get on with it. I love his attitude...

staker

i cant remember 1989

Did the leaving in 89.
I had to go to college as i couldn't get a "sponsor" for an apprenticeship.
Spuds,bacon n' cabbage,hand-me-downs, aaaah.......:rolleyes:
The neighbour had a mobile phone and i could go out-2 pints,10 fags and a disco for £10!!!
A bit nostalgic,but I think Ireland 2009 is generally a better place to be provided you escaped debt during the boom....

Acacia

I was only a baba, so 1989 was a great year for me. Did sweet FA.

x in the city

thelordofcheese wrote: »

It's because they're so damn tasty.

Its because people like anto and dexter like sticking long needles into their heads because its the biz, unfortunately this is the type of creature that exists now but was not found in the 80s

Aisling(",)

i cant remember 1989

im going for 2009.
wasn't alive in the 80's so i choose to pretend it never existed

Disease Ridden

Wasnt around for '89 myself, but my brother says the 80's were a brilliant time to be a child, despite the fact that things were tight; apparently it was really sunny during the summers back then, but maybe thats his selective memory?! I'd say it wasn't too bad; at least then if you had wealth, the wealth was solid and you could buy one of those old classy fuel-inefficient E class mercedes!

Zamboni

If I want to remember what Dublin was like in 1989 I just book a flight to Glasgow.

Whosbetter?

2009 shall do.

Ah yes, 1989.

I remember it well.
I turned 21 in June that year. What a time;)

You could drive pissed everywhere & nobody cared.
You could smoke at will anywhere you liked.
Nobody cared what the Greens thought & everybody had time to talk to each other.
There was no such thing as 'elf 'n sayftey' & a claims culture.
You could drive a 'shed', no NCTs then.
No Red Tape, CCTV & Computers to track you down.
The only Scroungers in the country were Irish.
Cash in hand, a nod & a wink,saw you through.
Also, The Who started doing the first of their comeback tours then.
In addition, there was always a better country to emigrate to!
What a time there was to be had!??
Twas brill, no messing.

A great time to be a wild & ambitious young lad.
Honestly,we didn't know how lucky we were.

K-9

Busses to Ulster Final replays.

Holidays before that were on caravans. The joys of caravans.
That was posh then, now it means something else.

Sgt Hartman

2009 shall do.

There's pros and cons of both periods. In 1989, at least we didn't have uncontrolled immigration and at least people still had their religion. Nowaday's it's trendy among young people to hate the Catholic church, this forum being proof of that. I know that elements in the Church have led to the destruction of people's lives (sexual abuse, enslavement in Magdalene laundries etc.) and I make no excuses for that. I have also known in my time some great priests and Catholics who have made very positive contributions to my community. You never seem to hear about those people, only the evil, devious ones that have abused their positions in the Church and blackened it's name. Also, it seems that most people in this country are blind as to the long-term consequences of uncontrolled immigration, as seen in several other countries. People seem to forget that decent, hardworking immigrants are also negatively affected due to the criminal/scumbag/scrounger elements in their own communities who should have never been allowed into Ireland in the first place.

On the positive side, at least in 2009 we are more skilled and educated, thanks to the boom years. We are no longer an insular nation, thanks to the internet, development in communications technology and cheaper, easier, more widely available travel services. We can now avail of technology and services that make our lives much easier. In terms of immigration, the only positive thing that I can see from it is that we can now avail of foods and products that would have been almost impossible to get hold of back in 1989.

OwenM

Flying to London in 1989 cost several hundred pounds, a VCR cost hundreds, Levi 501's were £60.

a pint of Guinness was £1.80 (€2.28), and the then average wage bought you 119 pints

today it is ~€4.00, and the average wage buys 150 pints

We can fly to london for 1/10 of the price, in 1989 people got the bus to London - i'm not kidding...

We have gone through massive deflation for 'things' we could import thanks to China and we can thank Ryanair for cheap access to foreign countries, this has contributed to our standard of living greatly.

None of this excuses the me fein populist Fianna Fail gubbermint we voted for ourselves. Local elections are coming up soon - be sure to ask anyone who knocks on your door for a vote what they think should be done to fix the current situation.

Remember we will have water rates and property taxes in the next year or two and these people will have at least some say in how they are spent and how much the taxes are going to be.

The French say 'to govern is to choose', Bertie Ahern never choose anything unless it was 'in the context of social partnership' or suggested to him the Galway tent, hasn't he done well for us....

Naikon

Drats, I was born in May of 1989.

I would have liked to have lived during the 80's, if even just to get a
bit of extra perspective. Society has really gone to the dogs.

Amazingly, the only thing I retain from that period is my trusty IBM keyboard
I am typing on now. Made in June 88. This thing will probably outlive myself.

Long live the 80's:D

irish_bob

snyper wrote: »

Im just old enough to remember how shiite the 80's were. Lived the Celtic Tiger, rode it, and fell off it just before it hit the wall.

Now while we can all accept that the country is in economic turmoil, not seen since yes- the stinking 80's we have a very different society now than we did 20 years ago.

I do understand that there are many of you members here were not born by 1989 and others only infants, but for those of you in your 30's you would have been old enough to observe and somehow compare the 2.

I think the biggest single difference is the debt that each individual has now, i think alot of the people that receive loans to buy houses were in thir 20s and couldnt remember the 80's a time when nobody had anything only a job and a dream to leave the country.

We also have a much more multicultural society. We are for better or for worse changed, personally i choose to see the positives of this, rather than look at any posible negatives, but there is no doubt a big difference, 20 years ago the only time i would have seen a black person was when we would go to dublin, now i think its fair to say, anyone living in a urban setting would know a black, Asian or eastern european family.

The other big difference is we dont jave as many swans, im not sure as to why that is.

So.. Are we better off now or would a time warp back to 89 be preferred

ah 1989 , i was going into 6th class , we had a fantastic summer in 1989 , thats about all i remember to be honest

Dudess

Yes, the '89 heatwave was amazing!

994 wrote: »

'89 was a good year. Sleeping 14 hours a day, breast milk on tap, inability to conceive of a world outside myself. Can't go back...

Disease Ridden wrote: »

Wasnt around for '89 myself

Naikon wrote: »

Drats, I was born in May of 1989.

Jeebuss... you guys seem YEARS older than ye are...
Disease Ridden, your brother is right - the 80s was a class time to be a kid.

Placid_Casual wrote: »

Leaving aside any economic argument, Ireland in 1989 was a far more socially conservative (some might say repressed) place than Ireland today.

So, 2009 is infinitely preferable in my eyes.

Very true on that score.

Terry wrote: »

Must resist crude joke...

Heh heh ... (I don't get it )

Whosbetter? wrote: »

You could drive pissed everywhere & nobody cared.
There was no such thing as 'elf 'n sayftey'
The only Scroungers in the country were Irish.

Only "PC" people would have a problem with the above eh...?

Sgt Hartman wrote: »

at least people still had their religion.

Well, that being a good thing is subjective surely? I don't feel in any way as if it's a bad thing for people not to be religious - in fact I think it's more desirable that people face up to realities rather than convincing themselves it will be all right if they pray...

Nowaday's it's trendy among young people to hate the Catholic church, this forum being proof of that.

Sorry, no. Young people harbour great anger towards the catholic church because of what it stands for... not to be trendy. That misconception is very patronising and implies young people can't think for themselves. I dislike when people make out they're "rebels" for being atheist/anti catholic church, but to take up the position is not an attempt to be "cool" - unless you're a pre-pubescent.

I know that elements in the Church have led to the destruction of people's lives (sexual abuse, enslavement in Magdalene laundries etc.) and I make no excuses for that.

A lot of people consider those good enough reasons to despise the institution that is the catholic church.

I have also known in my time some great priests and Catholics who have made very positive contributions to my community. You never seem to hear about those people, only the evil, devious ones that have abused their positions in the Church and blackened it's name.

I don't think anyone would deny there are decent individuals who represent the catholic church but that doesn't make the institution any less reprehensible.

Princess Jade

Dudess wrote: »

Yes, the '89 heatwave was amazing!



Jeebuss... you guys seem YEARS older than ye are...
Disease Ridden, your brother is right - the 80s was a class time to be a kid.

Very true on that score.

Heh heh ... (I don't get it )

Only "PC" people would have a problem with the above eh...?

Well, that being a good thing is subjective surely? I don't feel in any way as if it's a bad thing for people not to be religious - in fact I think it's more desirable that people face up to realities rather than convincing themselves it will be all right if they pray...

Sorry, no. Young people harbour great anger towards the catholic church because of what it stands for... not to be trendy. That misconception is very patronising and implies young people can't think for themselves. I dislike when people make out they're "rebels" for being atheist/anti catholic church, but to take up the position is not an attempt to be "cool" - unless you're a pre-pubescent.

A lot of people consider those good enough reasons to despise the institution that is the catholic church.

I don't think anyone would deny there are decent individuals who represent the catholic church but that doesn't make the institution any less reprehensible.

unf!

entropi

i cant remember 1989

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

I was only a kid back then and I loved my childhood years in the 80's (best years of my life) but even at that I'd still reckon now is the better time to be living in Ireland. There did seem to be a general vibe about the country of being resigned to defeat and inferior to the rest of the first world. That's what all the Brit bashing was about back then. The stuff that you don't really see much anymore from Irish people. Pure inferiority complex on our part imho. We've a lot to thank Jack Charlton and the Irish football team for. They gave the country a belief for the first time that we were truely just as good as anyone else out there (and not just in football I mean).

Ireland is more or less a country of the modern world now. We've grown up and been accepted to the table. 20 years ago we were something like the current countries of Eastern Europe. The level of excitement success in something like the Eurovision Song Contest should be an indicator to most that there was really nothing going for this place back then. We (rightly) sneer at countries who take that contest seriously these days (eg the Eastern block) but they do serve to show us what we ourselves were like only 15-20 or so years ago.

We've come a long way and for the better imho.

Adding to this post, the fact that there was "community spirit" back then too, neighbours got along and helped each other out was a nice thing too...i was just a kid born in the early '80s but i had some fun fun times too:D

KeyLimePie

i cant remember 1989

2009

in 1989, no divorce and being gay was illeagal