What do you think?

pancuronium

Hay was out walking in the woods earlier today & got talking to a man with a .22 cz, he was shooting crows out of the trees with it! Taught it was a bit strange myself but was just wondering what people taught of the idea of using a .22 shooting vermin out of trees? :rolleyes:

T-Square

I don't think crows (Ravens, Daws, etc) are vermin.

I do think Magpies are vermin.

pancuronium

Sorry T-Square don't think thats the problem here regardless of what's being shot! But i am keeping an open mind on what people think about using a .22 cz for shooting with no backdrop!!

jwshooter

highly dangerous .a .22 can travel over a mile

pancuronium

Howdi JW I was of the same thinking as you! He recons that because he's shooting up into he sky the bullet (Subsonic) will have lost its power & just fall effortlesly from the air causing no harm........... what do ya think?

Double Barrel

jwshooter wrote: »

highly dangerous .a .22 can travel over a mile

Second the above.

Extremely Dangerous.

J.R.

Joe Keane, in his Article in this months ' Irish Shooters Digest' tells of a man being prosecuted for shooting crows that were in his surrounding trees keeping him awake in the mornings.

As far as I know crows - jackdaws, rooks, greycrows & magpies can only be shot if causing damage to crops.

I wouldn't shoot a .22 into trees - too dangerous with no backstop.

Double Barrel

Google - terminal velocity-

But keep in mind shooting crows in trees is not shooting straight up BUT at an angle.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy05/phy05051.htm

The Aussie

pancuronium wrote: »

a .22 cz for shooting with no backdrop!!

Sounds like a breathing entrant for the 2009 Darwin Award.



Anthony.

Tackleberry.

T-Square wrote: »

I don't think crows (Ravens, Daws, etc) are vermin.

I do think Magpies are vermin.

Magpies (Cyanopica cyanea) are crows.but you are right about Ravens Daws they are not to be shot/trapped killed.
As for shooting into the trees he should be reported to the gards as he is a risk that the shooting sport could do with out,would suggest you keep an eye out for him and get a stop put to his dangerous past time.
Take care T Square....Tac

meathshooter

very irresponsible you can buy .22 shot shells,that are safe for shooting into trees.personally I would not take a shot without a safe back ground

meathstevie

Shooting roosting crows ( vermin indeed ) is a shotgun job. End of argument. Any stabilised bullet that's not shot perfectly vertical has a terminal velocity and trajectory that could land you in a serious spot of bother if it lands in the wrong place.

jwshooter

pancuronium wrote: »

Howdi JW I was of the same thinking as you! He recons that because he's shooting up into he sky the bullet (Subsonic) will have lost its power & just fall effortlesly from the air causing no harm........... what do ya think?

put it to you this way pancuronium ,i would not like to be hit falling from a great hight .

ayapatrick

Tackleberry. wrote: »

Magpies (Cyanopica cyanea) are

or is it not pica pica
i googled it there just to see if memory served right! it did!

But what your man is doin is dangerous.

SpannerMonkey

what is actually the range of a .22 lr ??

ayapatrick

jwshooter wrote: »

put it to you this way pancuronium ,i would not like to be hit falling from a great hight .

throw a cent from hign enough itd be dangerous!

Sparks

davy_b wrote: »

what is actually the range of a .22 lr ??

Lethal range, about a mile. This thing of 'erra, it's grand if it's falling, it's only terminal velocity, didn't mythbusters do that penny thing' is only 10% right. Yes, if you were hit by a .22lr round at terminal velocity, you wouldn't be badly hurt; but that only applies to a .22lr that is moving at terminal velocity, which will only happen if you fire straight up in the air. Fire at 60 degrees or so, and the round will still be moving at lethal velocities when it hits the ground (or whatever poor sod was unfortunate enough to be in the way).

In short, shooting crows out of a tree with a .22lr is at best monumentally ignorant (and he should have his licence pulled until he learnt better); at worst it exhibits depraved indifference to other people's safety (and he should definitely have his licence pulled).

Tackleberry.

ayapatrick wrote: »

or is it not pica pica
i googled it there just to see if memory served right! it did!

But what your man is doin is dangerous.

ya it looks that your right but i took it from the collins mini ref on birds maybe it's wrong. well spoted.

pancuronium

i'm just glad that people agree with me on this one i was thinking after years of shooting myself, mabe there was something i was overlooking lol what a moran!! I have already taken steps against this lad & i assure you all that he won't have his rifle today!!

The Aussie

Good to hear, any sport does not need a liability like that, especially a sport like shooting, where i grew up and did my shooting/learning something like that would have ended up with a sore backside at best

T-Square

pancuronium wrote: »

Howdi JW I was of the same thinking as you! He recons that because he's shooting up into he sky the bullet (Subsonic) will have lost its power & just fall effortlesly from the air causing no harm........... what do ya think?

Firing parabolically, it can travel a mile perhaps.

Not even too sure what a cz actually is, 22 sure, but 22 cz? czech?

If he's firing up at birds, 45 degrees, etc, the bullet would come down, but not with anything approaching lethal force, would leave a mark maybe.

T-Square

Sparks wrote: »

Lethal range, about a mile.

Depends on many things, and saying what you did, is very misleading.

.22 LR ammunition is available in a very wide variety, velocities ranging from 100m–500m per second

Although possible, it's unlikely this guy is using hot/hyper rounds.
He is probably using shot (little ball bearings instead of a solid or hollow point bullet), or a very low velocity round, that costs very little (which is very likely)

Best to stay at least 500m from his shooting, just to be safe(er).

thelurcher

I don't think there's a need to involve the guards in this :eek: the last thing we need at the moment is a story in the papers about irresponsible gun owners.

jwshooter

T-Square wrote: »

Depends on many things, and saying what you did, is very misleading.

.22 LR ammunition is available in a very wide variety, velocities ranging from 100m–500m per second

Although possible, it's unlikely this guy is using hot/hyper rounds.
He is probably using shot (little ball bearings instead of a solid or hollow point bullet), or a very low velocity round, that costs very little (which is very likely)

Best to stay at least 500m from his shooting, just to be safe(er).

are you <silly> ,the likes of you is why i have a problem with boards and the like .
you dont know what a cz is but still have a opinion on shooting crows from tree tops with a .22

shot in a .22 is a very short range load .(ball bearings).

your assumptions could lead to some one getting shot

for any one reading this only starting to use a rimfire never fire at any thing unless you have a back stop .

a point .22 can travel over a mile

Sparks

T-Square wrote: »

Firing parabolically, it can travel a mile perhaps.

Actually, well over and two cases in the last four years in Ireland showed this when people were hit by .22lr rounds at that range (one woman in a shopping centre and one child on a playground).

If he's firing up at birds, 45 degrees, etc, the bullet would come down, but not with anything approaching lethal force, would leave a mark maybe.

Very, very, very wrong. The bullet's vertical speed will be slight, less than terminal velocity. The bullet's horizontal speed will be at muzzle velocity less that which air resistance takes away. Still very lethal.

And yes, the gardai should be called. Police yourselves, or be policed. There's no third option here. And either you agree that safety is important, or you just don't mean it.

kakashka

Well AFAIK there is no such thing as a .22CZ
the OP did say it was subsonic ammo
And Of course shooting a .22 into the air is at best loonacy
PPL have been killed by such actions.
Reporting is the responsible thing to do,well done.

Sparks

A .22 cz isn't a round, it's a rifle - a .22lr rifle, made by CZ. Very popular in Ireland and abroad.

kakashka

Sparks wrote: »

A .22 cz isn't a round, it's a rifle - a .22lr rifle, made by CZ. Very popular in Ireland and abroad.

Yes i know sparks,a 22cz would be a round,that was my slightly anal point:)

jwshooter

the guy said .22 cz not .22cz.
but if anal turns you on its 2009 so each to there own .

kakashka

My buddy JWya

jwshooter

not by the hair on your chine chin chin

The Aussie

T-Square wrote: »

If he's firing up at birds, 45 degrees, etc, the bullet would come down, but not with anything approaching lethal force, would leave a mark maybe.

Would you like to test out your theory with one of your family or loved ones, NEVER GAMBLE WITH GUN SAFTEY if you dont have something to stop a stray dont shoot, its that simple no debate about it, it goes with all types of shooting, you would never take a shot at a deer thats standing on the top of a ridge the same as you never point a loaded gun higher than the bafles or where stated at a range.


If anyone reading this cannot comply with simple firearms saftey PLEASE sell your rifles and hand in your liscence at your nearest police station/garda barracks, poker might be more to your liking.



Anthony

T-Square

jwshooter wrote: »

are you <silly> ,the likes of you is why i have a problem with boards and the like .
you dont know what a cz is but still have a opinion on shooting crows from tree tops with a .22

shot in a .22 is a very short range load .(ball bearings).

your assumptions could lead to some one getting shot

for any one reading this only starting to use a rimfire never fire at any thing unless you have a back stop .

a point .22 can travel over a mile

I googled for it, and the only reference I came across for .22 cz
was some mickey mouse 22 calibre rifle.

I'm sorry, but I only deal with shotguns, AR15s, Glock's, Beretta's, Smith&Weson, Heckler&Kochs, and SIGs.

As for your .22 gimme a break.

I've been shooting guns before you were even in liquid form.

jwshooter

complacency breaths contempt .

Rovi

We're getting this close: --><--, to infraction territory here folks.

Let's keep this civil and polite.

meathstevie

T-Square wrote: »

I googled for it, and the only reference I came across for .22 cz
was some mickey mouse 22 calibre rifle.

I'm sorry, but I only deal with shotguns, AR15s, Glock's, Beretta's, Smith&Weson, Heckler&Kochs, and SIGs.

As for your .22 gimme a break.

I've been shooting guns before you were even in liquid form.

If you're all that proficient with all the stuff you're talking about above you should have at least heard of a calibre called .22lr as being fired in CZ's and other rifles chambered for .22lr, unless you refer to Glock's, SIG's, AR15's, H&K's etc that fire yellow plastic pellets. And by the way, all depending on shot placement a .22lr is well capable of dropping fairly large animals like foxes stone dead so I for one deffo wouldn't take a chance on firing a shot without knowing where it's going to hit if I miss my target.

kakashka

jwshooter wrote: »

not by the hair on your chine chin chin

jwshooter

there is talks of making rim fires illegal for foxes in the uk

ayapatrick

Sparks wrote: »

Lethal range, about a mile. This thing of 'erra, it's grand if it's falling, it's only terminal velocity, didn't mythbusters do that penny thing' is only 10% right. Yes, if you were hit by a .22lr round at terminal velocity, you wouldn't be badly hurt; but that only applies to a .22lr that is moving at terminal velocity, which will only happen if you fire straight up in the air. Fire at 60 degrees or so, and the round will still be moving at lethal velocities when it hits the ground (or whatever poor sod was unfortunate enough to be in the way).

In short, shooting crows out of a tree with a .22lr is at best monumentally ignorant (and he should have his licence pulled until he learnt better); at worst it exhibits depraved indifference to other people's safety (and he should definitely have his licence pulled).

that could be, but the physics?idea behind it is right! and as far as id be thinking it would apply to a bullet falling!
just about the range of the bullets, i think theres an optimum angle (about30-35 degrees). the steeper the angle the less lateral displacement ther will be? on the .22lr boxes they warn that the range is about 2 miles.

brieny1000

what this lad was doing was crazy but anyone can walk into a dealer and if guards pass him he can go back and walk out the door and start shooting with out any idea of safety. i have witnessed 2 lads in a shop who wanted to buy a rifle with the biggest bullet!!! i dont agree with manditory courses as these could lead to money making excuses for the powers that be but i think there should be a booklet(like the n.a.r.g.c safety manual) with the basic do/donts. i know some dealers might go through the basics but i know for sure some dont.
how many people have you heard of shooting pheasant with rifles who knew no better!!!!!

Double Barrel

NEVER GAMBLE WITH GUN SAFTEY
Shooting at birds in trees with a rim or centerfire rifle is NOT SAFE.

It does not take a PhD in physics to understand this very simple principle.
If you still have a question, Re-Read Anthony's rather straight forward and simple post bellow. It is not rocket science.

Thanks Anthony

By the way welcome aboard.

The Aussie wrote: »

Would you like to test out your theory with one of your family or loved ones, NEVER GAMBLE WITH GUN SAFTEY if you dont have something to stop a stray dont shoot, its that simple no debate about it, it goes with all types of shooting, you would never take a shot at a deer thats standing on the top of a ridge the same as you never point a loaded gun higher than the bafles or where stated at a range.


If anyone reading this cannot comply with simple firearms saftey PLEASE sell your rifles and hand in your liscence at your nearest police station/garda barracks, poker might be more to your liking.



Anthony

jwshooter

this a very good example of the ignorance of some people .

with our sport getting it from all sides we have people with in our sport that would argue over safety .

a .22 hitting a branch can go any direction even down with enough force to kill some one .

if there is no back stop you dont shoot end of argument.

Nemesis

Lethality of .22lr :

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504301&fpart=1

On the land I shoot on there are plenty of places where you could shoot down on a tree due to hills and have a huge backstop.

Due to potential ricochets of branches I presume its still a bad idea to shoot down into trees?.

Jonty

Nemesis wrote: »

Lethality of .22lr :

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504301&fpart=1

On the land I shoot on there are plenty of places where you could shoot down on a tree due to hills and have a huge backstop.

Due to potential ricochets of branches I presume its still a bad idea to shoot down into trees?.

You should never really fire unless you are sure of your backstop

fathersymes

The .22 lr is argueably the most dangerous round due to its low velocity and hence ricochet risk. It doesn't fragment on impact like higher velocity calibres.

You should never shoot at water, rocks, ice or anything similar. Only ever shoot when there's a suitable backstop, it goes without saying that shooting into trees is irresponsible idiocy.

LOUTHSHOOTER

Im a shotgun man myself but one of the first things i was thaught was gun safety and the range of my gun.This muppet should be shot with his own balls of ****e.Big brother is constantly keeping an eye on us shooters and then u have this gimp loading the poxy gun for him(excuse the pun).Wake up and report this Gob****e

T-Square

The fact is, the original poster has *no idea* what type of .22 round is being fired.

And to the person who says I should know what a cz is, gimme a break, I know what .22 lr is, and that there are a variety of .22 type rounds.
I don't know and don't care about cz anything, and never will.

I deal with physics and ballistics, and until I know exactly what round is being used, this whole thread is just so much shootin the breeze.

I originally said the guy could be shotting bird shot from his 22,
but nobody picked up on that. You all want him to be shooting a round that would make him out to be the most irresponsible person on the planet.

Get the facts, and take it from there.

This is a hunting forum yeah?
if you aren't shooting birds out of trees, (with the risk of lobbing a round about a mile down range):rolleyes:
or rabbits on the ground what are you shooting? (with the risk of ricocheting off the ground, or a blade of grass) :rolleyes:

You can also add LAR Grizzly 50 AE cal and Desert Eagle.

I've also benefited from ricochets, it's always nice when a round bounces of the vehicle you are in,
as opposed to find your brain or chest...

jwshooter

post 5, states subsonics .

so would you give every one a break.

kakashka

T-Square wrote: »

The fact is, the original poster has *no idea* what type of .22 round is being fired.

And to the person who says I should know what a cz is, gimme a break, I know what .22 lr is, and that there are a variety of .22 type rounds.
I don't know and don't care about cz anything, and never will.

I deal with physics and ballistics, and until I know exactly what round is being used, this whole thread is just so much shootin the breeze.

I originally said the guy could be shotting bird shot from his 22,
but nobody picked up on that. You all want him to be shooting a round that would make him out to be the most irresponsible person on the planet.

Get the facts, and take it from there.

This is a hunting forum yeah?
if you aren't shooting birds out of trees, (with the risk of lobbing a round about a mile down range):rolleyes:
or rabbits on the ground what are you shooting? (with the risk of ricocheting off the ground, or a blade of grass) :rolleyes:

You can also add LAR Grizzly 50 AE cal and Desert Eagle.

I've also benefited from ricochets, it's always nice when a round bounces of the vehicle you are in,
as opposed to find your brain or chest...

Brain???

jwshooter

i would think he is about 10

kakashka

Generous!