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Rebuilding Afghanistan

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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Final score. 3 dead, seven wounded to some extent.

    Opposition in the neighbouring AO had quite a good PR day today. I can't release yet the final tally, but a notable number of US dead in an attack on a small outpost. Two B1s ran out of bombs supporting the fight, plus all the other aviation that was used. Sortof a 'broken arrow.' God knows how many opposition were killed, we've not gotten to that stage yet.

    Suffice to say, the opposition's propoganda campaign will have excellent pictures in the morning. We were abandoning the place anyway, so there wasn't much left to burn/destroy, but of course, that's not going to be mentioned on the news.

    NTM


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Poccington


    Did any troops make it out of the Outpost MM?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Yes, the majority unharmed. Between aviation and reinforcements, the battle was a tactical victory. It's the PR aspect which will be damaging. I'll not be surprised if it's in the news in the next day or two.

    NTM


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Poccington


    Is this the same attacks you spoke of MM? http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,559741,00.html

    RIP to the 8 soldiers.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Yep, that's it.

    We dropped over 18 tons of bombs on them, plus other ordnance. (To include a score of 105mm rounds from an AC-130). We have little doubt that we have seriously depleted the opposition's numbers, but there's also little doubt about the PR victory they've scored.

    It says something that losing less than a dozen soldiers in a single fight is considered a horrendous and shocking figure these days.

    NTM


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  • Registered Users Posts: 78,352 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Society's / the media's ability to deal with casualites is inversely proportional ot the square of the number of casualties.

    Why is "broken arrow" used with two distinctly different meanings?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_Arrow
    Broken Arrow may also be:

    * An accidental event that involves nuclear weapons or nuclear components but which does not create the risk of nuclear war, known as a Broken Arrow in United States military terminology.
    * The United States code for calling in all available aircraft or artillery for an airstrike and/or artillery strike very near a friendly position which has been overrun by the foe, and therefore creating a high probability of 'Blue-on-Blue'. An example of this use was shown in the 2002 movie We Were Soldiers, a true story during which a Broken Arrow was called in by Lieutenant Colonel Hal Moore in 1965 while leading his men through the Ia Drang Valley in Vietnam.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,533 ✭✭✭iceage


    A major scrap by the sounds of it. Thoughts and condolences are with those guys familys and mates.

    RIP.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 471 ✭✭pmg58


    RIP to the lads.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Been looking up some more of the figures. The number of 155mm rounds fired is in the triple-digits.

    NTM


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,533 ✭✭✭iceage


    The contact finally hit Sky News last night.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,267 ✭✭✭concussion


    Victor wrote: »
    Society's / the media's ability to deal with casualites is inversely proportional ot the square of the number of casualties.

    Why is "broken arrow" used with two distinctly different meanings?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_Arrow


    Wiki is wrong on one of them - Broken Arrow is used to get priority air support for a position which otherwise would be over-run, not one which has already been overrun. As for it's use for nuclear weapons, I have no idea.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    U.S. pullout from Afghanistan not an option: Gates

    Mon Oct 5, 2009 8:49pm EDT

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    Taliban under attack in area where U.S. soldiers killed 1:38pm EDT

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    By Matt Spetalnick
    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The White House on Monday ruled out any consideration of a U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan as part of President Barack Obama's sweeping strategy review of the increasingly unpopular war there.
    "We are not leaving Afghanistan. This discussion is about next steps forward and the president has some momentous decisions to make," Defense Secretary Robert Gates said in a television program taped at George Washington University that will be aired by CNN on Tuesday.
    Gates said the Afghan and Pakistani governments should not be "nervous" about the U.S. review as Obama prepared to brief congressional leaders and to convene his war council again this week on how to deal with the deteriorating security situation.
    "I don't think we have the option to leave," said White House spokesman Robert Gibbs. "That's quite clear."
    Obama faces pivotal decisions in the coming weeks after the top U.S. and NATO commander in Afghanistan, General Stanley McChrystal, presented a dire assessment of the eight-year-old war effort.
    Earlier, Gates urged military advisers to speak "candidly but privately" but defended McChrystal, who has been criticized for appearing to lobby in public for his position that more troops need to be sent to Afghanistan.
    "Stan McChrystal is exactly the right person to be the commander in Afghanistan right now," Gates said. "I have every confidence that, no matter what decision the president makes, Stan McChrystal will implement it as effectively as possible."
    The debate within the Obama administration is now over whether to send thousands more U.S. troops, as McChrystal has requested, or scale back the U.S. mission and focus on striking al Qaeda cells, an idea backed by Vice President Joe Biden.
    'OUR INABILITY'
    Gates suggested that the failure of the United States and its allies to put more troops into Afghanistan in earlier years -- a period when former U.S. President George W. Bush invaded Iraq -- had given the Taliban an edge in Afghanistan.
    "The reality is that because of our inability, and the inability, frankly, of our allies, (to put) enough troops into Afghanistan, the Taliban do have the momentum right now, it seems," Gates said, although he declined to discuss what options Obama may be considering.
    As the strategy debate in Washington gathered steam, Afghan election authorities began a recount on Monday in the disputed presidential election held in August.
    Allegations of fraud in what Gates called the "flawed" election are among the reasons U.S. officials have cited for launching the review of policy toward Afghanistan.
    With U.S. casualties on the rise, American public opinion has turned increasingly against what Obama's aides once hailed as the "good war," in contrast to the unpopular war in Iraq that occupied the focus of Bush.
    There also have been increasing calls from the anti-war left and foreign policy critics for a U.S. pullout. Dozens of protesters gathered outside the White House on Monday, and a few were arrested when they chained themselves to the gates.
    Seeking to shore up support, Obama invited senior Democratic and Republican lawmakers to the White House on Tuesday to discuss the future course of the war. He is due to meet his national security team on Wednesday and Friday.
    The Obama administration already has almost doubled the number of U.S. troops in Afghanistan this year to 62,000 to contend with the worst violence since U.S.-led forces ousted the Taliban rulers in 2001. The U.S. invasion was launched in the weeks after the September 11 attacks carried out by al Qaeda, which had been given a haven in Afghanistan by the Taliban.
    McChrystal has warned in a confidential assessment that the war effort would end in failure without additional troops and changes in strategy.
    But signing off on the 30,000 to 40,000 troop increase that McChrystal is said to have requested would be politically risky for Obama due to unease within his own Democratic Party and fatigue among the American public after eight years of war in Afghanistan and six in Iraq.
    U.S. forces in Afghanistan suffered their worst losses in more than a year when fighters stormed remote outposts near the Pakistan border over the weekend. Eight American soldiers were killed on Saturday after tribal militia stormed two combat outposts in remote Nuristan province in eastern Afghanistan.
    (Additional reporting by Peter Graff and Sayed Salahn in Kabul and Phil Stewart and Arshad Mohammed in Washington.

    Also a 'military strategist' said on CNN that he fears the USA may make the mistake they did in Vietnam.That is to say reponding to increased levels of attack,pro-rata rather than a deciscive troop presence to "finish the job"
    in the same report the Afghan minister for defense said he wanted more troops to train his troops.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭Ping Chow Chi


    I remember watching a BBC documentry a couple of years ago and it looked like the afgan army was held in high regard by the locals but their view of the police forces was that they where worse than the taliban, I wonder if this has changed any?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    No.

    NTM


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭citizen_p




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    No, there were several hundred involved. The '40' is the claimed kill tally for the operations which resulted from the attack. The actual attack itself is supposedly on the order of a hundred enemy dead. Apparently there have been a lot of funerals in that part of the country the last two days. (It's a far more realistic way of telling than counting bodies)

    NTM


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭Ping Chow Chi


    No.

    NTM

    Thats a shame to hear, I hope that they are trying to sort that out.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Lip service only, I'm afraid.

    The ANP are basically a paramilitary. We teach them how to fire an AK-47 and shoot people, not how to conduct criminal investigations. They are incredibly badly paid, bribery of the ANP around here isn't about greed, it's about survival. There has been very little effort by anyone to train the police on police tasks.

    On the other hand, there is also little requirement for them to do so. Afghan solutions for Afghan problems is a bit of a catchphrase over here. Tribal Justice works rather well, all things considered. If person A feels he has been wronged, he takes it up with the tribal leadership, and they generally get the problem resolved to the satisfaction of all parties. Oftentimes delegations between two villages or tribes will work out inter-tribal problems. (Though occasionally they work it out with AK-47s). ANP are generally only called if there is the impression that civil issues cannot be worked out amicably without external interference.

    NTM


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    War is hell.

    The clasp broke on the wrist-strap of my watch. Said watch is currently being held in place on my wrist by way of a pipecleaner from my rifle cleaning kit.

    Some of our lads found the opposition this morning, yet again, they made the mistake of shooting at us. 56 rounds of 120mm, 3x 500lb bombs, 200x .50 cal and 13x 2.75" FFAR later (plus small arms and MG from the troops in contact), I believe we have again made our point that it's really not the safest occupation in the world to take potshots in our direction. (The unofficial regimental motto is 'Find the bastards and pile on.' We take this to heart, we only want to fight them once if we can help it)

    One of the problems with this job is the whole "I know something you don't know" issue. What's the point in knowing a secret if you can't tell anyone? Some amusing snippets of information crossed my desk today. Maybe by the time the tour is over, I might be able to tell you. Remind me at the end of the thread.

    NTM


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,798 ✭✭✭Local-womanizer


    Are you enjoying your time over there Manic?(between the shooting that is)

    What is the general feeling among the Afghan people towards yourself and the other ISAF forces?

    Do you feel your presence is making a difference?


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Are you enjoying your time over there Manic?(between the shooting that is)

    It has its moments, but it's sortof humdrum. I'm driving a desk, after all. With the weather becoming more reasonable, I might start going out and about a bit more.
    What is the general feeling among the Afghan people towards yourself and the other ISAF forces?

    They certainly love the money and infrastructure we bring. Everyone loves to see the Provincial Reconstruction Team show up, there might be water or a road in their future. Most seem to like us on a personal level and think that we believe we are there for their benefit. Of course, there are a few who like to shoot at us. Opinions seem more mixed on our effectiveness. We haven't rid corruption in the government, we've not kicked the Taliban out.
    Interestingly, recent observations are that with the restriction in our Rules of Engagement we are getting less co-operation from the locals: The impression is that they believe we are less willing to fight the Taliban/HiG/Whoever and are thus they are less willing to take risks to help us. The opposition, of course, uses intimidation of the locals to prevent co-operation, and if we can't give the impression of giving security, co-operation is reduced.
    Do you feel your presence is making a difference?

    Not as much as we could be. We are desperately short on manpower. Until I got here, I had no idea how manpower-intensive Afghanistan is compared to Iraq. We have much greater potential than we are currently offering.

    NTM


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Continuing onwards... Another RG-31 blown up. Supposedly one trooper has a broken back. I question that assessment given that he was running up and down hills for an hour after the explosion before complaining, but maybe there's a crack or something. Either that, or he's seriously hardcore. Other guys are just standard concussions. We think we caught the triggerman. Without hard evidence, however... he's let off to try again.

    Shortly after we got here, there was an outbreak of appendicitis. Three or four cases in the first week. Outbreak stopped. Now, all of a sudden, we lose a half dozen people to Malaria. Stupid way to lose manpower, and we're already well strapped for people.

    Yes, we're given daily pills. I guess some people weren't taking them.

    NTM


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,365 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Tellox


    Manic.. inspiring stuff, makes me feel like a bit of a twat for thinking I'm doing a service by signing up to the navy reserve!

    If you don't mind my asking - do you have a kill count? If so, would you mind announcing it?

    Also.. the NTM sign off, I'm wondering about that too :P


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    Tellox the meaning of 'N T M' mysytified me for a long time too!
    I now know what it means but if you were told unfortunatly you would have to be killed!

    Manic thanks again for the continuing updates and we can only guess how frustrating it is for You not to be able to report all you see and know:(
    sorry if i hardly ever use the thanks option,it just seems innapropiate when deaths are happening.

    as ever,be safe!:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,533 ✭✭✭iceage



    I just keep getting a server error message with that link..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭Donny5




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,533 ✭✭✭iceage


    Cheers Donny5 that works mate.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    NTM is his name Nato Tank Mauler :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    ynotdu wrote: »
    Tellox the meaning of 'N T M' mysytified me for a long time too!
    I now know what it means but if you were told unfortunatly you would have to be killed!

    Manic thanks again for the continuing updates and we can only guess how frustrating it is for You not to be able to report all you see and know:(
    sorry if i hardly ever use the thanks option,it just seems innapropiate when deaths are happening.

    as ever,be safe!:)

    NTM is his name.

    The N, I won't say in case he doesn't want it to be.
    The T, I am sure it's Tiberius because it's badass.
    The M, is Obvious.


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