An arts degree- What good is it??

Peppapig

Ok I'm a little conflustered about college courses. I'm not sure what I want to put on my cao. At the moment I have one course down on it (MH101 Maynooth- the arts degree).

I was talking to a teacher a while back about what to do because I said I wasn't sure and he suggested the arts degree. He said, " Oh its great because you can come out of the course with a higher level degree".

But what good is it?

I plan to do maybe french, biology or geography in the degree. I would much apprieciate some advice from experience. Would you advise me to do it?

Piste

There are no real specific jobs you can get with an arts degree. Some places require just a degree to work there. You can do teaching by doing a HDip after your Arts degree if teaching is your thing. Otherwise I think most graduates so a masters and specialise in some area.

Peppapig

A masters after the arts degree. Eg: If I liked a specific part of the arts degree, say, french I could go do a masters in French Teaching or something of the sort.

Royale with Cheese

If you're looking for a decent career, don't bother with an Arts degree. It won't help you there. Teaching is the only thing you can really specifically do with it.

Piste

Peppapig wrote: »

A masters after the arts degree. Eg: If I liked a specific part of the arts degree, say, french I could go do a masters in French Teaching or something of the sort.

Yeah alot of MAs are very broad so you could get into them with various degrees. Maybe go onto the NUIM website and see if they have a careers section under the ARTS section and see what it says about further opportunities.

vinnyryan

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

If you're looking for a decent career, don't bother with an Arts degree. It won't help you there. Teaching is the only thing you can really specifically do with it.

Op ignore this. Like any degree you have to seriously sit down and think we'll what do I want to get from this and will this qualification present me with such an opportunuity. The benefit of an arts degree in my humble opinion is that it provides to a certain degree some flexibility on what path you take and when but ultimately you still have to decide allbeit one might say that your making an informed decision.

An arts degree generally offers an array of subjects to choose from where you choose 4 in your first year and downsize to 2 from your second year on. What you really have to be careful about is what 4 subjects you choose obviously limits what you can go on to do from there and then when you must choose 2 the same applies. The point is that you have to have some sort of game plan really. For instance, like any career or course obviously whatever you specialise in limits what you can later do, the same way that if you are doing pass Maths in the LC we'll not every road is open to you.

I have friends that are economists, solicitors, barristers, teachers, psychologists etc. etc. all of which done a BA but do remember you have to pursue an M.A., HDip or other subsequent course dependent on what you want to do. If I may, the question you need to qualify in your mind in my view is what LC subjects/traits/interests/ do I hold a strength in and how can I engage these through a course and career.

jimmyskank

Arts degrees are great............especially when you run out of toilet paper!!

KeyLimePie

Arts degrees are useless on their own, it all depends on your post-grad !!

And ALSO you should be looking at what career you want then choose the course and the path, not the other way around

Royale with Cheese

vinnyryan wrote: »

Op ignore this.

I strongly urge the OP to not ignore my advice. Too often the broad range of subjects, opportunity to go into a wide range of careers advice is given when people are looking for advice on Arts degrees. It's misleading, career wise an Arts degree is not a smart move.

You're right though. Think very long and very hard about what would want and what you think you'll get out of an Arts degree. I have one, and I might as well had not have done it. Career wise it got me nowhere, the same for everybody else I know who has one and hasn't gone into teaching. Arts graduates I know do have decent enough jobs, but the fact they have an Arts degree didn't help them get the jobs at all.

Yes you can go into further courses (like I'm doing right now), but you end up just making things harder for yourself. Taking the long way round really.

Too many people who will be pro Arts degree will tell you to ignore my advice as nonsense, it's not. Think very long and hard before putting Arts down on your CAO.

Toto Wolfcastle

It's a bit of a cop out to say an Arts degree is useless on its own. And Arts degree, like many other degrees, is a step towards a job. Just because you have to do an MA or postgrad after it doesn't make it useless. I used mine to become a teacher. I have friends who did Arts in English and History and went on to do an MA in Economics. I have a friend who did Bio Chem and who is now delivering pizzas in order to save money to do a postgrad because he can't get a job with his degree. I have a friend who did Commerce and who is now working in a shop saving to go back to college because she can't get a job. I have a friend who did Psychology who is now working in a call centre to save money to go travelling before she joins the Gardai because she can't get a job with her degree alone. I have a friend who did Public Health who is currently completing an MA that he didn't want to do because he can't get a job.

Many degrees require that you go back to college to get another qualification. An Arts degree is no better or worse than any degree. It's a fantastic degree for those who know that it can take them where they want to go or for those who are unsure of where they want to do. It's not the easy degree that everyone makes it out to be. Depending on your subjects you can have a lot of hours in college, or few hours. However, there are constantly essays and assignments to complete, and in many subjects it is difficult to get a first.

A lot of people sneer at the Arts degree. A lot of my peers sneered at it. All I know is that I now have a job I love which I would not have had I not put Arts on my CAO form back in 2004.

madnesspersues

do not do ARTS! well only if you want to be a secondary school teacher. do like accounting or BESS, something more recognized! after an arts degree your still left with the Question - what the **** will i do now?! You might as well go to australia for 3 years and i dunno learn about their culture or something, that would be more benefiting than ARTS, espically in Maynooth! i refuse to put Maynooth down on my cao, they just have nothing for me and like you're stranded out in kildare or whereever it is. and dont get me started on that maynooth train - its actually hurrendous. you'd wanna have a good breakfast before getting it cos it does me PACKED and it gets soo warm. i nearly fainted on it once!:eek:

tootyflutty

Personally I detest Arts degree's, a total waste of time. They only have like 8 hours a week, and are considered by all other students as wasters!
I found when I filled in my CAO I only had like 3 choices (Bmus) so for my mothers peace of mind I put down two arts courses, but in al honesty if I got offered it, I think I would rather repeat then take it.
For students who really don't know what they want, wouldn't it be better to take the year out and work or travel to find out what you really want then pay for a course you really don't want or know anything about:rolleyes:

dragonfly!

OP have you any idea what you would like to do after college? an arts degree can lead into many things so if you arent sure what you want its a good option but you will need some kind of post grad afterwards which can be v expensive and would have to consider the extra cost of an extra year in college too....

If you really dunno what to do would you consider taking a year out or doing a PLC or a part time course to see what you like?

Hope it works out for you...:)

Naikon

janeybabe wrote: »

It's a bit of a cop out to say an Arts degree is useless on its own. And Arts degree, like many other degrees, is a step towards a job. Just because you have to do an MA or postgrad after it doesn't make it useless. I used mine to become a teacher. I have friends who did Arts in English and History and went on to do an MA in Economics. I have a friend who did Bio Chem and who is now delivering pizzas in order to save money to do a postgrad because he can't get a job with his degree. I have a friend who did Commerce and who is now working in a shop saving to go back to college because she can't get a job. I have a friend who did Psychology who is now working in a call centre to save money to go travelling before she joins the Gardai because she can't get a job with her degree alone. I have a friend who did Public Health who is currently completing an MA that he didn't want to do because he can't get a job.

Many degrees require that you go back to college to get another qualification. An Arts degree is no better or worse than any degree. It's a fantastic degree for those who know that it can take them where they want to go or for those who are unsure of where they want to do. It's not the easy degree that everyone makes it out to be. Depending on your subjects you can have a lot of hours in college, or few hours. However, there are constantly essays and assignments to complete, and in many subjects it is difficult to get a first.

A lot of people sneer at the Arts degree. A lot of my peers sneered at it. All I know is that I now have a job I love which I would not have had I not put Arts on my CAO form back in 2004.

It's a step to a nice cushy civil service job:pac:
Don't do it just to kill off a few years if you are scared of the prospect of working.
Arts is a horribly oversaturated degree. Greater no. of Arts grads = less overall market value

( Experience and a bit of cop on ) > ( Arts degree ) //in most cases.

Sorry, but it's the truth.

Toto Wolfcastle

Naikon wrote: »

It's a step to a nice cushy civil service job:pac:
Don't do it just to kill off a few years if you are scared of the prospect of working.

( Experience and a bit of cop on ) > ( Arts degree ) *in most cases.

Sorry, but it's the truth.

It's a step to many more jobs than just those that are 'nice cushy civil service jobs'. Talk to half those in my staff room, or visit the teaching and lecturing forum, and you will see that those jobs are far from cushy. An Arts degree is a fantastic general degree. People see it as a waste of time but a lot of degrees are the same. Commerce, Social Science, Bio Chem, etc are degrees that are a step to a higher qualification. There are few degrees these days that will allow you to get a job in that field straight away. Now is the time to upskill, and there is nothing wrong with starting out with an Arts degree.

And this is coming from someone who hated college.

Toad-Girl

If you don't know what to do and your interested in doing various subjects than obviously do an arts degree. No point in doing a commerce degree or whatever because some idiot on the internet thinks less of them. Engineering, Business, etc graduates at the minute might be a little disappointed that at the moment their degrees make them practically unemployable in their specialities. Arts degree grads in a much better position. Do the arts degree and decide where to go from there!

xOxSinéadxOx

what's everybody's problem with arts? I want to do economics and finance but I don't think I'll get enough points so I'm going to do arts, then do a masters

Dudess

Some arts degrees offer practical subjects like computer science and maths... does Maynooth offer biology on its arts programme? I wouldn't dismiss those subjects, however when it comes to the humanities, I would say the following:

OP, unless there's really nothing else you're good at (I'm not being smart)/interested in, seriously consider something else. The benefits of an arts degree are extremely limited.

1. It's a third-level qualification: really and truly not of much merit on its own nowadays. It might have been impressive to have a degree - any degree - 20 years ago, but they're 10 a penny now. Employers are not impressed by them.
Admittedly, any third-level qualification is a pre-requisite for a handful of employers - off the top of my head, the civil service/local government for clerical officer. Can't think of anywhere else though. And a more practical degree would give you that option PLUS lots of others.

2. You need it to be a secondary teacher (if you want to teach arts subjects): unless you have Irish, it is next to impossible to get a full-time job as a secondary teacher in this country. And it's a type of work that's not for everyone.

3. You need it to do print journalism: more merit in this. While you don't actually NEED it to be a print journo, it does improve your writing skills (not just English - history, geography, sociology... anything that involves lots of essay-writing). But again, if you've a flare for writing, it doesn't matter what your undergrad is - and it's a bad idea for a person to limit themselves to just journalism, so a degree that offers more options would be more beneficial for someone who'd like to go for journalism but wants to have a plan B (very little stable work in journalism).

4. You need it to do primary teaching: you don't NEED it as an undergrad to get onto the primary teaching postgrad diplomas, but an arts degree is probably of more relevance to it than, say, a commerce degree. Again though, primary teaching is a vocation and not for everyone.

5. You need a language degree to work abroad: that is true. I'd be more inclined to go for commerce and a language though.

6. You need it to become an academic in one of the disciplines you choose for your degree: again, true. This usually tends to be something people figure out as they go along though, rather than knowing when doing the leaving.


Common misconceptions:
- It gives you broad options: no it doesn't. That's career guidance teacher bullsh1t speak. What it means is "It doesn't give you any options in particular".
- It will give you a basis for any postgrad: you cannot do a one-year/two-year postgrad in whatever you feel like with an arts degree. Some disciplines require the full undergraduate degree, plus a postgrad, thus rendering an arts degree a waste of time. And an arts degree doesn't fulfill the prerequisite criteria for all postgrads. Say a person does a BA in geography and English and they decide they want to study psychology - they'll have to start from scratch. Sure, they might get an exemption here and there, but they'll still end up studying psychology for years, deeming their arts degree pretty much useless.

The above though, is only relevant to the question of career. If you have a passion for something (e.g. English, politics) and you long to study it and you're cool with the idea of just learning for the sake of learning and you've faced up to the possibility you may not work in a field directly related to it, then I would say go for it. And there are postgrads out there that will lead to a more specific career path, but not as many as career guidance teachers would have you believe, and not all of them are easy to get a place on.

Best of luck,
Dudess (BA, MA )

Disease Ridden

Dudess wrote: »

Some arts degrees offer practical subjects computer science, economics... does Maynooth offer biology? I wouldn't dismiss those subjects, however when it comes to the humanities, I would say the following:

OP, unless there's really nothing else you're good at (I'm not being smart)/interested in, seriously consider something else. The benefits of an arts degree are extremely limited.

1. It's a third-level qualification: really and truly not of much merit on its own nowadays. It might have been impressive to have a degree - any degree - 20 years ago, but they're 10 a penny now. Employers are not impressed by them.
Admittedly, any third-level qualification is a pre-requisite for a handful of employers - off the top of my head, the civil service/local government for clerical officer. Can't think of anywhere else though. And a more practical degree would give you that option PLUS lots of others.

2. You need it to be a secondary teacher (if you want to teach arts subjects): unless you have Irish, it is next to impossible to get a full-time job as a secondary teacher in this country. And it's a type of work that's not for everyone.

3. You need it to do print journalism: more merit in this. While you don't actually NEED it to be a print journo, it does improve your writing skills (not just English - history, geography, sociology... anything that involves lots of essay-writing). But again, if you've a flare for writing, it doesn't matter what your undergrad is - and it's a bad idea for a person to limit themselves to just journalism, so a degree that offers more options would be more beneficial for someone who'd like to go for journalism but wants to have a plan B (very little stable work in journalism).

4. You need it to do primary teaching: you don't NEED it as an undergrad to get onto the primary teaching postgrad diplomas, but an arts degree is probably of more relevance to it than, say, a commerce degree.

5. You need a language degree to work abroad: that is true. I'd be more inclined to go for commerce and a language though.

6. You need it to become an academic in one of the disciplines you choose for your degree: again, true. This usually tends to be something people figure out as they go along though, rather than knowing when doing the leaving.


Common misconceptions:
- It gives you broad options: no it doesn't. That's career guidance teacher bullsh1t speak. What it means is "It doesn't give you any options in particular".
- It will give you a basis for any postgrad: you cannot do a one-year/two-year postgrad in whatever you feel like with an arts degree. Some disciplines require the full undergraduate degree, plus a postgrad, thus rendering an arts degree a waste of time. And an arts degree doesn't fulfil the prerequisite criteria for all postgrads. Say a person does a BA in geography and English, and they decide they want to study psychology - they'll have to start from scratch. Sure, they might get an exemption here and there, but they'll still end up studying psychology for years, deeming their arts degree pretty much useless.

The above though, is only relevant to the question of career. If you have a passion for something (e.g. English, politics) and you long to study it and you're cool with the idea of just learning for the sake of learning and you've faced up to the possibility you may not work in a field directly related to it, then I would say go for it. And there are postgrads out there that will lead to a more specific career path, but not as many as career guidance teachers would have you believe, and not all of them are easy to get a place on.

Best of luck,
Dudess (BA, MA )

Very well said!!

herisson

Peppapig wrote: »

Ok I'm a little conflustered about college courses. I'm not sure what I want to put on my cao. At the moment I have one course down on it (MH101 Maynooth- the arts degree).

I was talking to a teacher a while back about what to do because I said I wasn't sure and he suggested the arts degree. He said, " Oh its great because you can come out of the course with a higher level degree".

But what good is it?

I plan to do maybe french, biology or geography in the degree. I would much apprieciate some advice from experience. Would you advise me to do it?

i was planning to do that too but all im interested in is geography and french but im crap at french and i kinda not interested in being a teacher but i dunno. i think you can get any sort of job from an arts degree depending on the subject for example:

if you do geography there is a possibility of becoming an ecologist, an urban planner or you could end up working in the EU as an environmentalist or a teacher

if you do french you could work anywhere in french speaking country you could be a translator either or a teacher

if you did biology you could be a scientist or guess what?? a teacher

dont do philosophy cause its suppose to be useless the only job you could get is as a philosophy professor well so i heard anyway

hope i helped

flag123

Pixie-Fairy wrote: »

i was planning to do that too but all im interested in is geography and french but im crap at french and i kinda not interested in being a teacher but i dunno. i think you can get any sort of job from an arts degree depending on the subject for example:

if you do geography there is a possibility of becoming an ecologist, an urban planner or you could end up working in the EU as an environmentalist or a teacher

if you do french you could work anywhere in french speaking country you could be a translator either or a teacher

if you did biology you could be a scientist or guess what?? a teacher

dont do philosophy cause its suppose to be useless the only job you could get is as a philosophy professor well so i heard anyway

hope i helped

Teaching is extremly competative to get into, you have to be at the top of the class to get into a Higher Diploma from and Arts degree seeing that lots of people want to become teachers doing the course.
The second thing is that the country is full of teachers, its all ready full with Arts graduates who have been on the waiting list for years. Graduates planning to come out and walk into a job need to think again.

If you love teaching and have your heart set on it, the best advise would be to do teach subjects that schools are lacking in teachers. e.g Economics, Spanish, Italian and History to be honest I would stay away from the likes of Geography and English, as there are over 5 in nearly each school in the country*.

There is also the advantage of doing a Science degree and becoming a Maths teacher or teach any of the Leaving Cert Science subjects Biology, Physics, Engineering, Chemistry etc..
So before banking on an Arts degree I'd advise you to research the career prospects of the course.

*recent statistics on the educational website..

Dudess

I'm surprised there's a shortage of history teachers. What about Irish and P.E.?

janeybabe wrote: »

I used mine to become a teacher.

You've been lucky Janey. Secondary teaching is so hard to get into - and you have Irish, not everyone can claim that.

I have a friend who did Bio Chem and who is now delivering pizzas in order to save money to do a postgrad because he can't get a job with his degree. I have a friend who did Commerce and who is now working in a shop saving to go back to college because she can't get a job. I have a friend who did Psychology who is now working in a call centre to save money to go travelling before she joins the Gardai because she can't get a job with her degree alone. I have a friend who did Public Health who is currently completing an MA that he didn't want to do because he can't get a job.

That's down to the economy being sh1t - it doesn't make arts as good as those degrees. Actually I'd imagine those with arts degrees to be in a worse off position.

An Arts degree is no better or worse than any degree.

Again, I'd have to disagree. Apart from the very limited area that is secondary teaching (and only certain arts subjects are taught at second level) it doesn't give you skills or industry-specific knowledge. It's not even comparable to Medicine, Engineering, Physiotherapy or Pharmacy.

janeybabe wrote: »

Commerce, Social Science, Bio Chem, etc are degrees that are a step to a higher qualification. There are few degrees these days that will allow you to get a job in that field straight away.

Agreed, but social science and biochem degrees are actually required for specific career paths. I agree, commerce isn't, but it's still got a lot more practical attributes than arts. It is expected in some areas of the financial sector also

Toad-Girl wrote: »

No point in doing a commerce degree or whatever because some idiot on the internet thinks less of them.

That's hardly fair. A person isn't an idiot just because of saying something you disagree with/dislike reading.
I'm one of those people who thinks less of arts degrees and I think I'm pretty well informed, seeing as I have one (plus a MA) and I'm out of college several years and have learned just how unremarkable employers consider them to be.

Engineering, Business, etc graduates at the minute might be a little disappointed that at the moment their degrees make them practically unemployable in their specialities. Arts degree grads in a much better position.

That doesn't seem logical. Everyone coming out of college this year will find it difficult to get employment, no matter what they've studied. Both arts graduates and graduates of the disciplines you mentioned will find themselves (if they're lucky) working neck and neck in call centre or whatever jobs... and when/if things pick up... well the arts graduates will still be unskilled.
There are jobs out there - obviously very few and competition is through the roof, but those fresh out of an arts degree certainly won't be getting them. I don't understand your assertion they're in a better position in the current climate - they're actually in a worse one.

Pixie-Fairy wrote: »

if you do geography there is a possibility of becoming an ecologist, an urban planner or you could end up working in the EU as an environmentalist or a teacher

if you do french you could work anywhere in french speaking country you could be a translator either or a teacher

if you did biology you could be a scientist or guess what?? a teacher

Oh sure, there are certain specific niches for which arts subjects are useful - but in the case of not knowing what you want to do, it's not a useful degree. Yet despite this, students who don't know what they want to do have arts recommended to them from all angles. It's ludicrous really.

Acacia

tootyflutty wrote: »

Personally I detest Arts degree's, a total waste of time. They only have like 8 hours a week, and are considered by all other students as wasters!

I take it you've never done an Arts degree so? The 8 hours a week thing is rubbish, my friend, I'm just about to finish an Arts degree and I'm doing more than 8 hours a week, I can tell you...

Yes, we are considered 'wasters' by some other students...usually ones who don't have a clue what they're talking about....:rolleyes:


Hmmm, it's a tricky one to call OP. It really depends on the person how much they'll get out of an Arts degree because it's just so broad. Or as Dudess says it qualifies you for nothing in particular. Depends on your perspective.

Some people like having a bit of space and scope to decide what they want to do with their lives after an undergrad degree, others like to leave college with a job already lined up.

Personally speaking, I'm going to have to another post-grad course after this to get into what I really want to do (library work). So I suppose yes, I could have just gone on ahead doing a library undergrad course, but I just didn't know what I wanted to do when I left school, so I'm actually glad I did the arts degree, if only to give me a bit of time to decide what I actually wanted to do. It was also just an interesting experience, as well. If you're unsure of what you want to do, it might help. But then again, some people leave after three years still not knowing what they want to do.

You also might find yourself interested in academia (lecturing, researching, etc. in a chosen subject) if you pursue an arts degree.

That said, it's a tough call because people's experience of arts degrees tend to be quite varied.

I would take both sides of the argument on board, and Dudess makes some good points. But whatever you do , try and base your decision on what actual Arts students' say, not just people who have never done it making judgments on something they know very little about...:p:)

flag123

Well, there isn't as much graduates with Irish than with P.E.
If you want to go for the teaching option, it's best to look at the shortages of teachers in a certain subject and the oppertunties..

Languages and Science subjects would be by far the best bet for secondary teaching anyway...;)

Dudess

Acacia wrote: »

I take it you've never done an Arts degree so? The 8 hours a week thing is rubbish, my friend, I'm just about to finish an Arts degree and I'm doing more than 8 hours a week, I can tell you...

Yes, we are considered 'wasters' by some other students...usually ones who don't have a clue what they're talking about....:rolleyes:

I know. The low number of teaching hours is well compensated for by the ocean of assignments. And OP, certainly don't let others thinking arts students are wasters dissuade you from doing arts if you think you'll get something out of it. Oh the horror! Strangers thinking you're a waster! :eek:

I'm going to have to another post-grad course after this to get into what I really want to do (library work). So I suppose yes, I could have just gone on ahead doing a library undergrad course, but I just didn't know what I wanted to do when I left school

Actually, is there even a librarian degree on offer in Ireland? That is a career for which a BA very much makes sense.

unknown13

madnesspersues wrote: »

do not do ARTS! well only if you want to be a secondary school teacher. do like accounting or BESS, something more recognized! after an arts degree your still left with the Question - what the **** will i do now?! You might as well go to australia for 3 years and i dunno learn about their culture or something, that would be more benefiting than ARTS, espically in Maynooth! i refuse to put Maynooth down on my cao, they just have nothing for me and like you're stranded out in kildare or whereever it is. and dont get me started on that maynooth train - its actually hurrendous. you'd wanna have a good breakfast before getting it cos it does me PACKED and it gets soo warm. i nearly fainted on it once!:eek:

Let me guess a stuck up, Trinity or UCD are the only universities in Ireland student. I live in walking distance from UCD and the college course I want to do at the moment is in Maynooth and I don't mind going there because I'm hearing good things about there.

Personally I wouldn't do an Arts degree because its a stupid degree IMO and doesn't make you skilled for any job other than second level teaching and still more study is required.

Acacia

Dudess wrote: »

Actually, is there even a librarian degree on offer in Ireland? That is a career for which a BA very much makes sense.

I think there is an undergrad course in UCD (not sure though) and also a post-grad qualification which you need to be a 'proper' librarian. That is I could work as a library assistant with just the BA (and most of the jobs I've seen advertised need a BA of some sort), but to progress you need the postgrad. So personally, the BA was good for me as a starting point (plus I love English and literature and books, ah my nerdiness is showing ) But I've friends who don't have a clue what they want to do and felt the degree was a bit of a waste...:(

In these times, if you're going to do an arts degree, it's probably better to do subjects like economics, and a language or something that you can teach rather than philosophy or anthropology. That way, you might have some better chance of a job.

Dudess

Yeah, it's possible to work as a librarian with just a degree and do the postgrad part-time/by correspondence.

english4490

Ok is it that people think arts in general is a waste or that people doing it because they don't know what else to do with themselves is a waste? I want to do Corp law but I also have arts down because I would love to do economics and do a masters in it because I think I would enjoy it. So do people think any art subjects are useful for a future career in anything but secondary teaching?

chave

ive read all the crap posted on this thread so far. makes me laugh that all the people talking here dont even do the BA. im doing a BA in economics in ucd, first choice and think its a great course. i chose it over commerce because i think the subjects give you a well rounded knowledge of mathematics, economics and a good understanding how people think and make decisions. i feel like id be in as good a position if not better than anyone coming out of commerce to work in investment banking stockbroking etc my plan is to do the hdip in actuary at ucd then become an actuary. But to say you cant get a job point blank is totally false. my friend did philosophy/english and works for JP morgan london in banking. most good firms want to see a good degree score and a good person. unless its medicine/architecture/pharmacy etc most of the time the degree subject matter has little relevance to sucess at the job. fact.

Dudess

english4490 wrote: »

Ok is it that people think arts in general is a waste or that people doing it because they don't know what else to do with themselves is a waste?

The second one (in my opinion anyway).

I want to do Corp law but I also have arts down because I would love to do economics and do a masters in it because I think I would enjoy it.

Well then you should do it. You're not saying "I want a degree - need to have it on my CV when I go looking for work... I'll do arts". You're simply saying you think you'd enjoy it - and that's often good enough.

So do people think any art subjects are useful for a future career in anything but secondary teaching?

Depends on the subject.

chave wrote: »

ive read all the crap posted on this thread so far. makes me laugh that all the people talking here dont even do the BA.

Well going by that comment, it would appear you actually haven't read all the "crap" posted on this thread so far.

im doing a BA in economics in ucd, first choice and think its a great course. i chose it over commerce because i think the subjects give you a well rounded knowledge of mathematics, economics and a good understanding how people think and make decisions. i feel like id be in as good a position if not better than anyone coming out of commerce to work in investment banking stockbroking etc my plan is to do the hdip in actuary at ucd then become an actuary.

Economics is one of the more practical arts subjects on offer. And you still have a clearly defined career path in mind. You're not comparable to those that don't have a clue.

But to say you cant get a job point blank is totally false.

Where did anyone say that?

my friend did philosophy/english and works for JP morgan london in banking.

And (s)he didn't actually need to study arts for that job. Did (s)he do a postgrad? I'd put my money on it the answer is yes.

most good firms want to see a good degree score and a good person. unless its medicine/architecture/pharmacy etc most of the time the degree subject matter has little relevance to sucess at the job. fact.

"Fact" is it? Because you say so?

JohnG18

I really don't understand why people look down and sneer at Arts. Its a very diverse course as we all know. I had Arts down on my CAO back in the day(last year) but the lure of Science out lasted Arts. I just don't understand why people feel they are high and mighty enough to judge all Arts students.

Just out of curiousity someone mentioned that you can do Biology in NUIM I assume thats only in first year? Find it odd that you could take Biology as an Arts student past first year.

Dudess

Well, pointing out the restrictions of an arts degree is not the same as sneering at it - it's just a particular reality which, while it might not be nice to read, shouldn't be sneered at either.

I'll be a recession casualty soon - it will be my work experience that hopefully nabs me another job (god knows when though ) certainly not my arts degree/masters. My worry is, if anything, these might make employers view me as over-educated for roles that don't require third-level qualifications at all (administration). I may end up having to go back to college to do a business postgrad.

OneArt

People seem to be forgetting that an Arts degree is a brilliant choice if you want to do something with languages.

As far as I understand having a foreign language is a big plus, particularly if you want to work abroad. Furthermore doing languages through Arts can help one get into Translation/interpretation if that's your thing.

I have Maynooth and UCD Arts down at the bottom of my list in case I don't get any of my language courses. So the Arts program is definitely useful for SOME of us!

Dudess

OneArt wrote: »

People seem to be forgetting that an Arts degree is a brilliant choice if you want to do something with languages.

Not what I'm seeing on this thread - there has been a number of mentions of languages.
What I am seeing is examples of people not reading the thread properly.

In a nutshell: an arts degree is not a good idea if you don't know what you want to do career-wise. It is if you do know what you want to do - e.g. archaeology and history with the aim of being an archaeologist.

But doing e.g. sociology and geography just because you want to have a degree and in the hope that you'll somehow be inspired career-wise when you graduate, is a very bad idea. Better off doing something that gives you skills. Having skills and not knowing what you want to do is a far more desirable position to be in than having no skills and not knowing what you want to do.

An aside in relation to biology being on offer as an arts subject in Maynooth: if a person wants to become a scientist wouldn't they be expected to have a BSc rather than a BA?

OP, if you're interested in biology, why not go for a science degree? If points are of concern to you, the points for Applied Biology in Cork Institute of Technology are very low and I don't see why they'd be much higher anywhere else.

seacláid-te

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

If you're looking for a decent career, don't bother with an Arts degree. It won't help you there. Teaching is the only thing you can really specifically do with it.

Definitely not true!!

flag123

seacláid-te wrote: »

Definitely not true!!

For the majority of subjects available in an Arts course, it's true that the only thing you can do is teach.
But there are also great subjects that have great career prospects like economics or biology even...also you can get some really useless sh*t subjects that have no benefit to the working world, then again people only do the subject(s) out of interest in some cases, not career based..

Piste

Dudess wrote: »

An aside in relation to biology being on offer as an arts subject in Maynooth: if a person wants to become a scientist wouldn't they be expected to have a BSc rather than a BA?

A lot of science courses offer BAs as opposed to BScs, not sure why. The same course in Trinity and UCD could end up in a Ba and BSc respectively. It's all just a name, the course content is what really matters.

tribulus

I don't wish to be nitpicky or antagonistic but the reaility is somewhat different with science courses. While it should be about the course content and what skills you gained the reality is that for a lot of jobs in science, particularly on the more technical side of things, a BA won't do.

A HR person filtering CVs (and they've a lot of filtering to do nowadays) will throw most of the BA applications away, unless they're accompanied by a post-grad or significant and relevant experience. Where most of the BSc applications will at least get past that first glance.

I'm speaking in terms of chemical, biopharm and pharmaceutical science jobs here, though they're far and away the most abundant in Ireland.

Piste

Is that true? Like if you've a BA in pharmacology from College A and a Bsc in Pharmacology from College B and college A is reknowned for being superior to college B would they automatically disqualify you?

tribulus

Piste wrote: »

Is that true? Like if you've a BA in pharmacology from College A and a Bsc in Pharmacology from College B and college A is reknowned for being superior to college B would they automatically disqualify you?

First of all, employers in these industries couldn't give the slightest sh1t what university you went to. All they care about is what skills you have, how long will it take to train you and how much will it cost. In such a highly regulated industry these are the important questions.

I can't speak for everyone but from my limited experience as a science graduate, yes it seems to be true.

Obviously in an interview one could easily show how irrelevant it might be but they most likely won't get to that stage. It just comes down to the sheer volume of applications for jobs that they can pick and choose who they want.

JSK 252

When I was deciding what I wanted to do in the science area, with the notion of staying in Cork I had the choice of either biochem or pharmacy. I had little interest in med or dentistry. Biochem never really appealed to me as you are not qualified specifically for any job. Sure your qualified in a specific area in science but having the skills required for a job is a different story. I dont like the idea of being stuck in lab all day.

Pharmacy has simply ticked all the right boxes and thats what Im set on!

Jonathan

I am genuinely shocked at the amount of people posting here who haven't a clue about what is going on go the real world (dudess being the obvious exception).

misled leaving cert students wrote:

I'm going to do arts. I'm gonna get a job as a teacher or join the civil service.

Our public sector is bursting at the seams. Hence the terribly attractive retirement package announced last Tuesday.
The push is on to cut expenditure. We are currently borrowing 60million a day to run this country.

Where are all these jobs going to come from?

Dudess

jmccrohan wrote: »

I am genuinely shocked at the amount of people posting here who haven't a clue about what is going on go the real world (dudess being the obvious exception).

Well I suppose the fact I did my leaving cert when the majority of this year's leaving certers were aged four to six has something to do with it.
You can't blame school-goers for the way they are misled by career guidance teachers and the way third level education is put on such a pedestal - by teachers, their parents, other older relatives...

Red Sleeping Beauty

vinnyryan wrote: »

Op ignore this. Like any degree you have to seriously sit down and think we'll what do I want to get from this and will this qualification present me with such an opportunuity. The benefit of an arts degree in my humble opinion is that it provides to a certain degree some flexibility on what path you take and when but ultimately you still have to decide allbeit one might say that your making an informed decision.

An arts degree generally offers an array of subjects to choose from where you choose 4 in your first year and downsize to 2 from your second year on. What you really have to be careful about is what 4 subjects you choose obviously limits what you can go on to do from there and then when you must choose 2 the same applies. The point is that you have to have some sort of game plan really. For instance, like any career or course obviously whatever you specialise in limits what you can later do, the same way that if you are doing pass Maths in the LC we'll not every road is open to you.

I have friends that are economists, solicitors, barristers, teachers, psychologists etc. etc. all of which done a BA but do remember you have to pursue an M.A., HDip or other subsequent course dependent on what you want to do. If I may, the question you need to qualify in your mind in my view is what LC subjects/traits/interests/ do I hold a strength in and how can I engage these through a course and career.

So an Arts degree means that you can spend more time in college. Fantastic.

ChickenScratch

Just thought I'd throw in my two cent.

My entire CAO (well, okay, three or four choices) are basically arts degrees in Trinners and UCD. Why? Because I adore English and cannot see myself studying anything else. The technicalities of Law and Journalism degrees etc would bore me to tears, probably to the point of my dropping out altogether.

My dream career is to become a writer, not the most stable path I know, and barring that I haven't a clue. If I must, after Orts I'll do a year or two MA in something more dull and specific like media in order to get a proper job, but I'm getting the education I want first.

Bottom line: I know I'm a green and inexperienced LC student but, in my opinion, arts only doesn't work if you're doing it for the sake of it (like anything really). If you study Geography and French and then want to go on to an MA in psychology, you're probably a little screwed.

Do what you love, and I live in hope that we'll all be alright.

If not we can blame the recession

Jonathan

ChickenScratch wrote: »

If not we can blame the recession

Deadly. Do what you like. Even if it makes you unemployable.

4 years of free tuition fees, and then 13,000 a year for the dole.

Happy days.

Dudess

I don't think that's fair. If a person has a passion for something, then studying it for that reason alone is legitimate, in my opinion. Knowing that it may not nab them a job is better than fooling themselves it will, and it's more likely to motivate them into formulating a plan B, which seems to be the case with ChickenScratch.
ChickenScratch can't see him/herself studying/being good at more practical degrees and I don't think that should deter him/her from going to university when English is on offer.

ChickenScratch wrote: »

My entire CAO (well, okay, three or four choices) are basically arts degrees in Trinners and UCD. Why? Because I adore English and cannot see myself studying anything else.

OMG it's me in 1996!

[The technicalities of Law and Journalism degrees etc would bore me to tears, probably to the point of my dropping out altogether.

Two seemingly more "practical" disciplines that WON'T get you a job in 2009 Ireland.

My dream career is to become a writer, not the most stable path I know, and barring that I haven't a clue.

You can be a writer, you just may not make a full-time living out of it. Doing it on the side is perfectly feasible. I do it.

If I must, after Orts I'll do a year or two MA in something more dull and specific like media in order to get a proper job, but I'm getting the education I want first.

Oxymoron.
There are little to no proper jobs in media and the tiny pool that exists is just getting smaller and smaller due to cuts (NewsTalk and TV3 did massive culls recently, Independent Newspapers has been on an outsourcing rampage for the last few years). Media postgrads generally aren't held in high regard by media organisations - experience and ability are. But even then, you may only get bits of freelance.
I'd recommend you do an I.T. or business postgrad after your English BA (hopefully MA) - dull, but a point will come where you'll have to face up to the realities of making a living. I have the English degree, the media MA, now I'm thinking of doing a business-type postgrad. But I write and do bits of radio presenting on the side.
Or what about pursuing academia in English? A PhD maybe?

Bottom line: I know I'm a green and inexperienced LC student but, in my opinion, arts only doesn't work if you're doing it for the sake of it (like anything really). If you study Geography and French and then want to go on to an MA in psychology, you're probably a little screwed.

Spot on.

K4t

Shocking thread. And there was me thinking that 3rd level education was about broadening one's mind and for the first time receiving an education. Ignore the bloody recession (which will most likely be over in four or five years time) and pick a course/subjects that will make you wake up with a smile each day of college and go in there to learn and enjoy yourself. If you don't know exactly what you want to do right now, choose an arts degree and you'll have another fews years to ponder it.

Yeah.

Dudess

K4t wrote: »

Shocking thread. And there was me thinking that 3rd level education was about broadening one's mind

All well and good if you're a pensioner going back to college. Realistically, college is about preparing yourself for the workforce.

and for the first time receiving an education.

First time?

Ignore the bloody recession (which will most likely be over in four or five years time)

Yeah, stick your head in the sand...

and pick a course/subjects that will make you wake up with a smile each day of college and go in there to learn and enjoy yourself.

Agreed, to a point, but have a plan B.

If you don't know exactly what you want to do right now, choose an arts degree and you'll have another fews years to ponder it.

Worst advice ever - do not do an arts degree if you don't know what you want to do.

We

Ignoring what course you do, I personally believe, if you are in the top of your league, regardless of what line of work, there will always be jobs available to you. If you have an incredible ability to articulate and recount historical events, somebody will most likely want to hire you. Though not because of your Arts degree, which merely becomes a fundamental requisite above the Leaving Cert.

Furthermore, to assume that getting an Arts degree automatically places you in the forefront of the young, educated workforce that Ireland produces every year is ridiculous. People love to harp on about Arts degrees giving you a wider choice in what line of work you want to pursue, which I believe is total rubbish. Consider the fact that, should you want to pursue an area of work that you partly studied under your Arts degree, eg. psychology, you are automatically placed below someone who studied psychology specifically.

This is the problem with Arts degrees, they seem appealing because they offer a 'Jack of all trades' education. Unfortunately, no employer wants a Jack of all trades. Employers want to hire fully educated people, in a relevant degree, who have a history of success in said degree, and thus give a hint towards being able to handle the work involved.

Obviously, there are other important factors in employment, but for the most part, it is my perception, that typically, if you are being hired with just an arts degree and no postgrad, it is not because you studied something relevant to the job, but because you actually have a degree, and that alone is deemed enough of a requirement to have that job.



Blah. I have no intention of reading this over.. bad mood.. excuse if I sound like a dick