Time for a General Election?

Nothingbetter2d

Time for a General Election?

Please just keep answers to just YES or NO

faceman

NO

We need all parties to come together to agree a strategy to tackle the crisis. let them keep their differences out of the public eye. It will help inject confidence and show the nation and international markets that we mean business.

When things settle, then call an election.

F1ngers

NO.

Does this belong in the Budget '09 forum

Hellrazer

General election??

Who is the alternative??
I cant see any of them being any better at the job in hand tbh.

I used to think that it was a case of FF out and anyone else in but the way I see it now is that there is no alternative.They`re all the same.

VinylJunkie

No

Do you think the oppositions parties want to be in government? Dont think so!

Nothingbetter2d

Hellrazer wrote: »

General election??

Who is the alternative??
I cant see any of them being any better at the job in hand tbh.

I used to think that it was a case of FF out and anyone else in but the way I see it now is that there is no alternative.They`re all the same.

which i think prooves why democracy really doesnt work lol

any idiot can run for election.... it should be changed to any suitablely qualified person can run for a government position (ie Finance Minister needs really good Accounting Quailifications)

Soby

No

Gob****es not in government == Gob****es in government
No one can do any better

sailinginblue

YES Of course these clowns have had enough time. The country has had enough.
Really how bad do have to do to get turfed out by the Irish people.
I don't live in Ireland any more but I hate to see these assholes dragging my country and it's people down so much. All the pride and innovation gone in a few months. Any other nation would have been on the streets and turfed them out. If nothing else marking the cards for the next set of Muppet's!
One simple fact. They increased the VAT rate before Dec 08.
By their own words that has costs us at least €700.
This is more than 1.5 Billion in a year, lost thousands of extra jobs and sent out the message that taxes are going up in this country.
What did they do to rectify that little blunder yesterday? Nothing.
Sorry, Goodbye.

oppiuy

Yes, sooner the better

Zynks

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

Time for a General Election?

Please just keep answers to just YES or NO

If you believe yesterday's measures and what is waiting for us in December will help fix things. If you are happy with property tax and screwing up families: NO

Otherwise: YES

deepriver

YES

if you answered NO to this thread and did not benefit directly from some relationship with Fiaana Fail over the past 10 years, you are a total and complete moron and need to be parted from every cent of your money and taken advantage of in every conceivable way as you are a liability to your country, your family and your friends

if Fianna Fail come back into power in this country within the next ten years I will be leaving and never coming back, and will go somewhere like France or Germany where they have a working governance system based on prudence and integrity

this country is a banana republic at present a point made in no uncertain terms by international credit rating agencies and we need a wholesale and fundemental change in our banking, regulatory and political systems

fianna fail and everyone related to that party needs to be removed as far away rom power as possible and we need a labour / green party coalition for 10 years plus to bring the country back to conservative and consciencious ways and build sustainable industries around green technologies and not property

faceman

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

any idiot can run for election.... it should be changed to any suitablely qualified person can run for a government position (ie Finance Minister needs really good Accounting Quailifications)

One of our previous Minister's for Justice, McDowell was a solicitor and yet he didnt make a very good Justice minister. Qualification doesnt always mean good leaders. (Michael O'Leary isnt a pilot afterall)

deepriver wrote: »

YES

if you answered NO to this thread and did not benefit directly from some relationship with Fiaana Fail over the past 10 years, you are a total and complete moron and need to be parted from every cent of your money and taken advantage of in every conceivable way as you are a liability to your country, your family and your friends

So who should we vote for in the general election instead that will fix the problem?

wrote:

if Fianna Fail come back into power in this country within the next ten years I will be leaving and never coming back, and will go somewhere like France or Germany where they have a working governance system based on prudence and integrity

Fianna Fail have been doing this in power for years, so why are you still here? France's unemployment rate has been higher than Ireland's for years until very recently. Have you your head in the sand?

wrote:

this country is a banana republic at present a point made in no uncertain terms by international credit rating agencies and we need a wholesale and fundemental change in our banking, regulatory and political systems

Um, we still have the second highest country rating. We had the highest country rating for 8 years. the government, whether it works or not has announced fundamental changes in the emergency budget.

Maybe come back with more relevent arguments dude.

jimmycrackcorm

NO. Calling for a general election every 5 minutes because you don't like policies or want to punish the government is simply pointless. If instead it would allow the opposition to pursue better policies that would get us out me the situation then that would be different. But as others have pointed out there is no alternative.

Zynks

There is always an excuse not to go for something different:

- Let them fix it first
- Times are good, why risk loosing it all
- There are no alternatives (even though the guys in power are largely responsible for the trouble)
- It would take a new government a long tome to get their act together

My conclusion: Irish people are not FF supporters, they are just scared ****less of change

ccguydub

YES

Sully

YES.

Fine Gael and Labour are the only alternative party which is willing to bite the bullet and clean up the mess we are in. FF have refused, even with yesterdays budget, to do just that. Instead we are making a big mess even bigger. FG and Labour *are* alternative solutions. They are *not* like FF and change IS and HAS BEEN needed for a long time, now more so then ever. It is not healthy that one party can be in government for so long and despite proving themselves worthless time and time again - people need a new government.

National government? Christ, FF wont work with any of the opposition as it is. Its clear the issue is the government and a national government will not address the problem - it will only make matters worse. This country needs change, it needs reform and it most certinally does not need FF. The budget is a drop in the ocean for reasons why they need to be kicked out of government. FF can not give us the change we need and the alternative partys are actually offering more.

The oppositions job IS TO biker, winge, complain and point out the mistakes the government have and are making. We would be fools to just cover our ears and eyes and hope it all goes away. We would be fools to just accept we have a problem and let those who got us into it make attempt after attempt after attempt to get us out of the mess. How many chances does a party need? We would be fools to demand the opposition ignore the ignorance and horrifying muck up the government are making of things. We would be fools to want them to help them out of the mess when we clearly need change.

This country needs a government with fresh ideas, fresh politics, balls and a new mandate. FG have been the party to really shine and show us not only what mistakes are being made but what they can and will do to get us out of this mess. They have an excellent team of vibrant, young, honest politicans who offer us real change. Sure the leader of the party might not "sound or look the part" (or be the next Obama) but he has shown his strengths as a leader of an opposition party and has pulled his party from the gutter creating a new strong team. As he said, its not "Yes we can" its "Yes we will".

Flip the coin and we have Labour. A party who has not been affraid to shout the loudest and give this government a grilling when its needed. A party where they have a strong voice and some very good candidates ready to take on the challenge that our country is in. Perhaps the most annoying in terms of loudness but the Labour party have been the only other opposition party to give this government such a grilling and to offer change to the people of Ireland.

Its been time for a general election for a while now folks. A united government will get us nowhere and FF are certinally not on the path to fixing our problems.

Carrickman

YES!

nesf

deepriver wrote: »

if you answered NO to this thread and did not benefit directly from some relationship with Fiaana Fail over the past 10 years, you are a total and complete moron and need to be parted from every cent of your money and taken advantage of in every conceivable way as you are a liability to your country, your family and your friends

Calling people morons because they don't follow your political beliefs is not acceptable in this forum. Whether your opinion is the majority opinion or not is irrelevant.

eoinbn

No. We need FF to be the ones to make the call to the IMF. If FG/Labour make it then we will be back here in 25 years with the next generation of FF clowns destroying the country.

Het-Field

faceman wrote: »

One of our previous Minister's for Justice, McDowell was a solicitor and yet he didnt make a very good Justice minister. Qualification doesnt always mean good leaders. (Michael O'Leary isnt a pilot afterall)



So who should we vote for in the general election instead that will fix the problem?



Fianna Fail have been doing this in power for years, so why are you still here? France's unemployment rate has been higher than Ireland's for years until very recently. Have you your head in the sand?



Um, we still have the second highest country rating. We had the highest country rating for 8 years. the government, whether it works or not has announced fundamental changes in the emergency budget.

Maybe come back with more relevent arguments dude.

What do you base your arguments regarding McDowell on ? Incidentally, McDowell is a barrister. Again, I feel you are one of those people who disliked him becasue it was fashionable to dislike him.

The reality was he was the first Reforming Minster for Justice this country has had in years.

The Criminal Justice Acts of 2006 and 2007 are testament to that.

He is one of the only world leaders who has taken action on immigration, ensuring that the judge made law of Lobe v Osyande was not the conerstone of our immigration policy (he abided by the constitution, and put it to the people in June 2004).

He properly tried to reform alcohol legislation. His attempts to put it in supermarkets (to increase competition), and his 24 Hour cafe bars idea (to bring Ireland towards a sustainable, sensible and European Liberal Policy) were some of the most innovative ideas towards alcohol regulation. Lenihan just sought to curtail opening hours, hike prices, and punish people for drinking outside of their homes (this has only served to force people to drink in their homes, while earlier closing times means more violence, more wanton destruction of public property, and more discomfort for all those who engage in nocturnal activities.

McDowell was a firm believer, proponent, and purchaser of the land for the building of Thornton Hall "Super Prison". Mountjoy is inadequate (no constitution changes vis sentencing could occur until the capacity is radically increased. Until then the country has no alternative but to operate a revolving door prison system), inhumane (no proper in cell sanitation facilities), and Dickensian to the core. The new prison would have catered for the distribution of mandatory sentence, and given a certain level of dignety to those imprisoned there.

Finally he exposed Gerry Adams as a complete spoofer. Adams has no political ideology beyond his nationalism, and McDowell exposed that in 2007. His last act was to jettison any development of Sinn Fein between 2007-2012

McDowell was beyond poor as a leader of the Progressive Democrats. He rubbed people up the wrong way, and his gung hoe arrogance led him to be widely disliked by the. His expulsion from the Dail was a stupid decision on the part of the people of Dublin South East. They deprived the country of a thinker and a reformer, who will shoot from the hip.

ShooterSF

No.

Let them swing a little longer. Let them make as much a mess as possible if it permanently stains FF and FSM willing sees the Greens go the way of the PDs.

Drakmord

YES,
Of course we should have a general election, the current government made **** of the public finances and now we have to pay to clean it up.
But I'd prefer to see Richard Bruton as Taoiseach as opposed to Enda Kenny.
He seems much more capable!

astrofool

No, lack of options being the problem.

I'd like to see Richard Bruton as finance minister, he seems to be willing to make the hard decisions. Seeing Enda Kenny as Taoisech, however, would be awful.

Labour are full of blow and short of idea's to actually do anything, they're really stuck trying to pander to everyone, which is a dangerous situation for a party to be in.

Luckily, the Greens will be f*cked out of it at the next election.

themadchef

YES

I'm sick to the back teeth of FF, they got us into this mess, and we're supposed to trust them? Come on people, we need reform. They are not a reform government, and confirmed that yeaterday. Time to give someone else a chance. They can hardly do any worse.

Tripmann

Get these clowns out NOW. They've crippled ordinary working people for the sakes of their party contributor buddies.

Would a labour coalition be any better? Who knows, but at least we would sink or swim trying to help EVERYBODY in our country.

Phonehead

My God YES, To all those people who don't rate Enda as leader.... seriously look who is leading us now, the guy who was the Minister for Finance who contributed to this mess.

O'Coonassa

What Earthly good would a general election do?

The division people appear to percieve between the parties is just a sham. The politicians are funded by vested interests not the People. How can they do the will of the People? We saw the politicians on the stage at the time of the Lisbon treaty, they are as one. It is foolish to believe in any substantive difference between them IMO.

2qk4u

YES !!

admiralofthefleet

no.
an all-party government is what we need at this time

Pappacharlie

Yes!

This government is tainted just like the bankers move them all on. The medicine will be the same from any new administration. At least we would not have to look at the likes of Cowen, Cullen, Dempsey and the Donegal Bimbo!!
Don't get me started on the GREENS!!

A snap election is the answer.

ART6

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

no.
an all-party government is what we need at this time

The UK did that in the Second World War, and because they were going down the pan fast in the fight against Hitler, it worked. But that is not where we are (yet). An all party government has no opposition to call it to task and question it's decisions, and we can't risk that with the people who are available to form a government at the moment.

Should there be a general election? Most certainly yes, because the present government has no mandate in this situation and should seek a new one. The IMF (It think?) have already said that some new faces are needed.

sub-x

Yes, because we can't be expected to trust the very morons that got us into this mess to get us out of it again.

No,because we are just going to swap one bunch of morons for another.

Hey we are damned if we do and we're damned if we don't.

smemon

Yes.

This old nonsense of 'what alternative is there?' is rubbish. If we had that attitude Fianna Fáil would remain in power for eternity.

Get them out, get anyone else in. CHANGE.

Change is what we need - doesn't matter whether it's bad or good. Change makes people work harder and fight for their jobs.

If you get sacked, you're gonna fight for a job. If the guy next to you gets sacked, you up your work rate.

We're seeing this throughout the economy - it's being cleansed of evil and bad practices yet the government is not.

The government have been in power for too long and they're too comfortable. Sacking 20 ministers and then re-hiring 15 is typical of this government - they're not practicing what they're preaching.

Raising VAT by 0.5% was a mistake - Lenihan ADMITTED that. Yet he didn't reduce it or address it in the latest budget. 'Too much hassle' was, in a nutshell, his excuse.

tippspur

Yes,kick em out

laurence997

No. Public morale is already low enough without adding the hassle and confusion of changing government. Anyway, I, don't fancy being led by Enda Kenny-Zzz Zzz

marti8

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

Time for a General Election?

Please just keep answers to just YES or NO

YES

OPENROAD

I would like to see a change. In a way I wish we did not have a PR voting system. If we have an election will a FG/Labour actually work, in terms of policies from what I understand they are far apart and posssibly they would not last a year.

Yes

Jessiemac

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

Time for a General Election?

Please just keep answers to just YES or NO

Yes. Absolutely. Get them out fast. They're only concerned with the welfare of their privileged cronies.

Solitaire

YES, the reason to keep them in has always been Enda's weakness, and now FF are just as weak and feeble. The other change is that they used to be utterly corrupt and reasonably effective. Now they're only corrupt, and will not hesitate to ruin the people of this nation to avoid losing face.

Morale and efficacy are already at rock bottom, and we know that no matter what happens the current regime will choose the stupidest, most short-sighted and ridiculously elitist course. How much worse could it get with a different coalition?

endplate

Yes vote them numpties out asap. I expected them to chicken out and try and tax us out of the recession. Very bad move a major bunch of cowards. They have had 12 years of throwing money at problems and buying votes. Now they are found out that they can't handle real problems they simply have to go and hope the alternative will have the balls to handle the problem properly and improve morale in the country

They will only do more harm the longer they are in control

lmimmfn

instead of throwing endless amounts of our cash into the infinite money pit that is our banking sector they should be using that money to build infrastructure when its actually cheap, create jobs, build our country up again in preparation for future good times.

Why werent the banks sold or amalgamated? why is this 'our' problem?
How can i set up a bank?, buy loads of stuff and then put it all down to bad debt and pocket myself millions? or just con them into giving me lots of cash for property and say i can no longer pay

caffrey

Yes. whilst I agree that we SHOULD wait until the economic craziness is over, parties letting bygones etc and then call it, but what will happen then is FF will get the praise for getting us through this tough time etc etc.

I call for a look at the voting/party system our country employs... but what are the alternatives?

xz

Yes. This Government could have averted this years ago when Charlie McGreevy was Minister for Finance, but he was shafted out to Brussels and the Government continued to "BUY" us at Budget time.
Now, the ugly side of the "Dictator Cowen" is rearing it's ugly head (no pun intended) with a "Do as I say" attitude. At the moment we are living in a Democratically elected Dictatorship, but I can't see this one revitalising our economy like Hitler did for Germany in the 30's.....and we ALL know what happened in the 40's.
All this talk of buying foreign properties..................;)

tretle

laurence997 wrote: »

No. Public morale is already low enough without adding the hassle and confusion of changing government. Anyway, I, don't fancy being led by Enda Kenny-Zzz Zzz

Not once have I voted for Fianna Fail, they have done nothing but send our country down a spiraling ****hole. The fact that they have repetitively been voted in by people regardless of this has made me ashamed of this place.
People seem to vote for the entertaining ones rather than the ones capable of doing their jobs and the ones that actually care about the people.
You my friend are a moron, not voting for someone because you find them boring... Are you serious.
What I am most ashamed of was this countries treatment of Americans. Don't get me wrong, I was just as against the bush administration as the next but I didn't label all Americans as idiots as the majority of irish did. They based their acusations on the fact bush was voted in but take a look at our own country, how bertie was voted in, purely for entertainment value.
Hypocrites.
How the hell would fianna fail handle this country if we were prone to natural disasters etc. They are ****ing up the worst they possibly can **** up with our geographical location + military power....... I think even bush would do a better job in this country.

If these f+ckers manage to stay in power much longer I will be leaving this country with a finger pointed at its shores.

is_that_so

For now I'll say no although when it comes there will be change of government. The Cowen manoeuvre has ensured they'll all stay onside until after the June elections anyway. Sure it might make people feel better and Labour are exploiting the notion but I just don't believe that the chaos and power vacuum that comes out of an election is really of any use to anyone at present.

We'd have the dissolution of the Dail, a minimum of a three week campaign, negotiations on formation of new government and then a few weeks of holidays. All told we could be looking at up to three months of no government.

Much as I dislike what we have and believe it must be changed, now is not the time. With international markets trying to decide if we're moving any way in the right direction, a 2-3 month interregnum would not go down well.

Dark_lord_ire

No

The government are elected to make hard calls like they did if we had a general election everytime a government had to deliver a budget in recession we would be doing it every year.

Anyway who on gods earth would want the job right now. Best to have election as things are turning for the better which being honest could be when the elected lifetime of this government ends anyway.

zootroid

tretle wrote: »

Not once have I voted for Fianna Fail, they have done nothing but send our country down a spiraling ****hole. The fact that they have repetitively been voted in by people regardless of this has made me ashamed of this place.
People seem to vote for the entertaining ones rather than the ones capable of doing their jobs and the ones that actually care about the people.

If these f+ckers manage to stay in power much longer I will be leaving this country with a finger pointed at its shores.

+1


YES. I have absolutely no confidence in the current government, based on their previous record. They made idiotic policy decisions over the last few years, going against the advice of independent economic commentators. They couldn't even see the recession coming last summer despite the steady increase in unemployment. They seem to only want to feather their own nests. Eg, how in Gods name can a sitting TD claim a pension?!?! I know that is now ended, but should never have been allowed in the first place. Enormous salaries for ministers in comparison to other countries, TDs claiming twice the average industrial wage in expenses, appointing friends to the boards of state bodies etc etc. All these things are just infuriating.

Lastly, they continue to blame anyone and anything for the mess the country is in, without accepting any blame themselves.

I also think that FF being decimated would show them how angry the people are with their performance over the last few years, and how they brought this country to its knees.

On the plus side, I think Richard Bruton would make a good finance minister. I think Enda Kenny (while not the most charismatic of people, but is Cowen??) is honest, something which is lacking in FF. I think there are enough talented individuals in the opposition to see us through this mess. Cowen and Lenihan get the blame, but FF have plenty of other idiots. Coughlan, Cullen anyone?

zootroid

By the way, this thread could really have done with a poll!

deepriver

Het-Field wrote: »

What do you base your arguments regarding McDowell on ? Incidentally, McDowell is a barrister. Again, I feel you are one of those people who disliked him becasue it was fashionable to dislike him.

The reality was he was the first Reforming Minster for Justice this country has had in years.

The Criminal Justice Acts of 2006 and 2007 are testament to that.

He is one of the only world leaders who has taken action on immigration, ensuring that the judge made law of Lobe v Osyande was not the conerstone of our immigration policy (he abided by the constitution, and put it to the people in June 2004).

He properly tried to reform alcohol legislation. His attempts to put it in supermarkets (to increase competition), and his 24 Hour cafe bars idea (to bring Ireland towards a sustainable, sensible and European Liberal Policy) were some of the most innovative ideas towards alcohol regulation. Lenihan just sought to curtail opening hours, hike prices, and punish people for drinking outside of their homes (this has only served to force people to drink in their homes, while earlier closing times means more violence, more wanton destruction of public property, and more discomfort for all those who engage in nocturnal activities.

McDowell was a firm believer, proponent, and purchaser of the land for the building of Thornton Hall "Super Prison". Mountjoy is inadequate (no constitution changes vis sentencing could occur until the capacity is radically increased. Until then the country has no alternative but to operate a revolving door prison system), inhumane (no proper in cell sanitation facilities), and Dickensian to the core. The new prison would have catered for the distribution of mandatory sentence, and given a certain level of dignety to those imprisoned there.

Finally he exposed Gerry Adams as a complete spoofer. Adams has no political ideology beyond his nationalism, and McDowell exposed that in 2007. His last act was to jettison any development of Sinn Fein between 2007-2012

McDowell was beyond poor as a leader of the Progressive Democrats. He rubbed people up the wrong way, and his gung hoe arrogance led him to be widely disliked by the. His expulsion from the Dail was a stupid decision on the part of the people of Dublin South East. They deprived the country of a thinker and a reformer, who will shoot from the hip.

very succinctly put... McDowell was a politician who cared more about reform than the next election... and where did that get him in our political system... Fired... I was a big fan of Mc Dowell purely for his integrity and willingness to take on work and make changes... but the Irish voting public didnt see it that way, he didnt wear a Man U shirt at the weekends and slug Bass which doomed his career

I pretty much lost all faith in our system at that point... can only be saved by Labour / Greens or a re-emergence of the PDs

Fianna Dail & Gail are more or less the same beast...

YES to an election, but I fear this Irish public would vote back in Fianna Fail, given enough time to heal the issues say 1 year

Sure look at Bertie.. the man that must take the most responsibility for ruining the country is hoovering around looking for the PM role... and the scary thing is he will probably get it

the problem in this country is not with the elected politicians, but the people who elect them & reject people like McDowell

faceman

Het-Field wrote: »

What do you base your arguments regarding McDowell on ? Incidentally, McDowell is a barrister. Again, I feel you are one of those people who disliked him becasue it was fashionable to dislike him.

The reality was he was the first Reforming Minster for Justice this country has had in years.

The Criminal Justice Acts of 2006 and 2007 are testament to that.

He is one of the only world leaders who has taken action on immigration, ensuring that the judge made law of Lobe v Osyande was not the conerstone of our immigration policy (he abided by the constitution, and put it to the people in June 2004).

He sped up the deportation of failed asylum seekers. One of which was leaving cert student Kunle Eluhanla, who was deported back to Nigeria. After outcry for schoolmates, McDowell reversed his decision which undermined the integrity of his stance on immigration. Other deportees were not given a similar voice.

wrote:

He properly tried to reform alcohol legislation. His attempts to put it in supermarkets (to increase competition), and his 24 Hour cafe bars idea (to bring Ireland towards a sustainable, sensible and European Liberal Policy) were some of the most innovative ideas towards alcohol regulation.

He did an overnight U-Turn on the 24 hour cafe bar idea. (which i admit, i liked his idea) He didnt have the integrity to stand up to whatever or whoever made him change his mind.

wrote:

McDowell was a firm believer, proponent, and purchaser of the land for the building of Thornton Hall "Super Prison". Mountjoy is inadequate (no constitution changes vis sentencing could occur until the capacity is radically increased. Until then the country has no alternative but to operate a revolving door prison system), inhumane (no proper in cell sanitation facilities), and Dickensian to the core. The new prison would have catered for the distribution of mandatory sentence, and given a certain level of dignety to those imprisoned there.

The price we paid for that land was well above the going rate for land in that area. It was never address why unused state owned land Dublin wasnt utilised instead.

wrote:

Finally he exposed Gerry Adams as a complete spoofer. Adams has no political ideology beyond his nationalism, and McDowell exposed that in 2007. His last act was to jettison any development of Sinn Fein between 2007-2012

Yeah he used to accuse them of being members of the PIRA.

wrote:

McDowell was beyond poor as a leader of the Progressive Democrats. He rubbed people up the wrong way, and his gung hoe arrogance led him to be widely disliked by the. His expulsion from the Dail was a stupid decision on the part of the people of Dublin South East. They deprived the country of a thinker and a reformer, who will shoot from the hip.

His inability to review the laws on statutory rape correctly was farcical. He ended up having to apologise to the Dail as a result.

I have no issue with him rubbing people up the wrong way. But have integrity in what you do and say.