What happened the scrappage scheme ? ?

seasam

I thought this was a certainty anybody know what happened ?

Anan1

It was never going to happen, it made no sense to introduce one.

leitrim lad

they scrapped it

ninty9er

Look around. How many cars on the road are more than 8 or 10 years old. Take 10% of that (being optimistic) and you have the amount of people that ***might*** buy a new car.

It didn't add up, it was a stupid idea and that's why it didn't happen.

Owen

It was an retarded scrappage scheme that could have been implemented by a retarded government. If Cowen would lead by example and reduce his own wages to 50%, I'd be more impressed.

seasam

Fair enough I just thought with all the talk on here and the papers in the last week it was a done deal.
It would cost nothing to implement and any money it would generate is better that nothing I would have thought

Saab Ed

The bloody Greens probably didnt approve anyway. I didnt really think it was going to come about but Im sure they had their say in the final outcome. I will have to be physically restrained if any of thoses tree hugging , condesending , bulls**t spewing retards come to my door thats for sure :mad:

ednwireland

new cars cost more in carbon than any new car will save over its lifetime so the greens wouldnt support it, eamoon ryan said so last night on the radio

homer90

Saab Ed wrote: »

I will have to be physically restrained if any of thoses tree hugging , condesending , bulls**t spewing retards come to my door thats for sure :mad:

:D

mick.fr

I do not understand why are you guys bitching about this scheme without knowing the facts.
The scheme for instance has not been implemented because the UK Gov did not see the point. Another mistake.
So the Irish Gov has simply followed the same route. Without asking too much questions. As usual.

The scheme is used in Germany and since January 2009 car sales have increased by 40%
Same in France with over 10%.

It is all documented out there.

And yes there is lots of old cars (5+ years old) in this country.

That is definitely something to seriously consider.

mick.fr

ednwireland wrote: »

new cars cost more in carbon than any new car will save over its lifetime so the greens wouldnt support it, eamoon ryan said so last night on the radio

Many people are saying many things in public, that does not make them smart or right.

homer90

ninty9er wrote: »

Look around. How many cars on the road are more than 8 or 10 years old. Take 10% of that (being optimistic) and you have the amount of people that ***might*** buy a new car.

It didn't add up, it was a stupid idea and that's why it didn't happen.

+1
Totally agree, The GF and I were chatting about this last night, The oldest car she had seen in the last while was a '93 (Old by all accounts, But hey.. if its tested and runs ).. With a scrappage deal in place people still have to fork out the hard earned - which as we know aint gonna happen in todays climate...

Lord Trollington

There are 300,000+ cars over 10 years old on the road in Ireland in actual fact.
if between 5% availed of this your looking at 10-15k cars, what a boost that would be for the coffers and to dealers at this moment!!
it was going to cost the government nothing to implement a scrappage scheme, because if they were giving €2500 scrappage, VAT and VRT from the purchase of the new vehicle would more than covered that and added to the coffers in fact.
At the moment no one is buying new cars, so no VAT or VRT for the government.
No lets tax the balls out of everyone insted

Saab Ed

whycliff wrote: »

There are 300,000+ cars over 10 years old on the road in Ireland in actual fact.
if between 5% availed of this your looking at 10-15k cars, what a boost that would be for the coffers and to dealers at this moment!!
it was going to cost the government nothing to implement a scrappage scheme, because if they were giving €2500 scrappage, VAT and VRT from the purchase of the new vehicle would more than covered that and added to the coffers in fact.
At the moment no one is buying new cars, so no VAT or VRT for the government.
No lets tax the balls out of everyone insted

+1

If it keeps going the way it is there will be no Irish motor industry left to talk of except tramps in barns selling clocked English rubbish.

Tipsy Mac

As Ireland is not a car manufactering country it makes no sense to encourage people to buy new cars as the vast majority of the money leaves the state. Take a 20k VW Golf, about 10 goes to the maker, 8 goes to the government in VRT and VAT and the remainder goes to the dealer and distributor.

Saab Ed

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

As Ireland is not a car manufactering country it makes no sense to encourage people to buy new cars as the vast majority of the money leaves the state. Take a 20k VW Golf, about 10 goes to the maker, 8 goes to the government in VRT and VAT and the remainder goes to the dealer and distributor.

In fairness thats a hell of alot more going to the Revenue /dealer/ distributor than there will be now.

bladespin

They'll wait until the worst of the recession is over, no point offering a scheme that the majority won't/can't take up.

Saab Ed

bladespin wrote: »

They'll wait until the worst of the recession is over, no point offering a scheme that the majority won't/can't take up.

There might not be anyone left to provide the service......Be under no illusion ,the motor trade is on its knees

Owen

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

As Ireland is not a car manufactering country it makes no sense to encourage people to buy new cars as the vast majority of the money leaves the state.

As Ireland is not a TV manufacturing country, it makes no sense to encourage people to buy new TVs.

Lets not just stop at closing Dealerships, lets close down electrical stores, B&Q, Harvey Normans, Debenhams, Tesco, in fact, any non indigenous business, lets just get them out. Makes perfect sense.

Anan1

ned78 wrote: »

As Ireland is not a TV manufacturing country, it makes no sense to encourage people to buy new TVs.

Lets not just stop at closing Dealerships, lets close down electrical stores, B&Q, Harvey Normans, Debenhams, Tesco, in fact, any non indigenous business, lets just get them out. Makes perfect sense.

With all due respect, ned78, I think you know that's a poor analogy. We're discussing a scrappage scheme, which is another word for a subsidy.:)

Owen

Anan1 wrote: »

With all due respect, ned78, I think you know that's a poor analogy.

We're discussing revitalising a screwed trade, which affects thousands of jobs. Subsidy or not, and having someone tell us we shouldn't buy cars in Ireland because we don't manufacture them here is just the most 'special' comment on boards I've seen in a long time.

There was an estimate on the paper during the week that figured somewhere around a 1000 jobs a month are being lost in the Motor Trade, but because it's 5 jobs here, 10 jobs there, it's not publicised at all. I've lost lots of good friends working with me, and I could well be next.

Saab Ed

Anan1 wrote: »

With all due respect, ned78, I think you know that's a poor analogy. We're discussing a scrappage scheme, which is another word for a subsidy.:)

Well in all fairness the motor industry via the punter did its fair share of subsidising over the last 10 years. The revenue created by subsidy in this industry long term is a good investment. Tax on profits, Tax on income, VRT, Tax on all other services related to the car industry i.e banks, paint shops, valet companies etc not to mention the VAT taken on products bought by employees of motor dealers. How much does it cost the state to lay someone off and then pay them dole for god knows how long?

Anan1

ned78 wrote: »

We're discussing revitalising a screwed trade, which affects thousands of jobs. Subsidy or not, and having someone tell us we shouldn't buy cars in Ireland because we don't manufacture them here is just the most 'special' comment on boards I've seen in a long time.

From an economic standpoint, it would be better for us to spend the money on goods/services produced here. €20k spent on servicing/repair work, for example, is of much more benefit to the economy than €20k spent on buying a new car. I think this is one of those cases where the interests of those in the business of selling new cars differ from those of the population at large.

Anan1

Saab Ed wrote: »

Well in all fairness the motor industry via the punter did its fair share of subsidising over the last 10 years. The revenue created by subsidy in this industry long term is a good investment. Tax on profits, Tax on income, VRT, Tax on all other services related to the car industry i.e banks, paint shops, valet companies etc not to mention the VAT taken on products bought by employees of motor dealers. How much does it cost the state to lay someone off and then pay them dole for god knows how long?

Sure, but nobody's suggesting we subsidise TV retailers for the same reason. In the long run, it might make better economic sense to employ ex-car sales workers elsewhere in the economy.

Owen

Anan1 wrote: »

From an economic standpoint, it would be better for us to spend the money on goods/services produced here. €20k spent on servicing/repair work, for example, is of much more benefit to the economy than €20k spent on buying a new car. I think this is one of those cases where the interests of those in the business of selling new cars differ from those of the population at large.

And no one's arguing with that viewpoint, but unless cars are being sold, entire Dealerships are going to close, not just the sales departments. And the only alternatives will be independents - who great as they are - aren't equipped to be suddently flooded with the spillover due to the collapse of the trade.

seasam

But surely 20k spent on servicing/repair would include parts supplied not made in Ireland !!

leitrim lad

what would be the point in the government setting up a scrappage scheme to bail out the yupees who fix prices and never honor warranty,
its just another way af bailing out the people who think they are high soceity,
there would be no point in starting such a scheme to drive the price of cars and viechels up again ,when people are just begining to see the real prices that cars can be bought for,
i myself admit i did think until a few days ago that a scrappege deal similar to the 1990s one would be a good idea ,until i sat down and taught about all the salesmen who robbed us all over the years with their bullsh2t, and waffling, well let them fall to the gutter now for their pricefixing and avoiding warranty

Saab Ed

Anan1 wrote: »

Sure, but nobody's suggesting we subsidise TV retailers for the same reason - or are they?

Some industries are so large by boosting them the trickle down effect helps everyone and the motor industry is one of them. Thats why world wide governments are moving to save so called loss making car companies because even making a loss it cost far less to keep these people in employment than not to for now.

Anan1

ned78 wrote: »

And no one's arguing with that viewpoint, but unless cars are being sold, entire Dealerships are going to close, not just the sales departments. And the only alternatives will be independents - who great as they are - aren't equipped to be suddently flooded with the spillover due to the collapse of the trade.

Businesses have to be flexible enough to deal with changing market conditions - servicing & repair work will still be there, surely? If I were a dealership that's where i'd be focussing my attentions at the moment.

Saab Ed

leitrim lad wrote: »

what would be the point in the government setting up a scrappage scheme to bail out the yupees who fix prices and never honor warranty,
its just another way af bailing out the people who think they are high soceity,
there would be no point in starting such a scheme to drive the price of cars and viechels up again ,when people are just begining to see the real prices that cars can be bought for,
i myself admit i did think until a few days ago that a scrappege deal similar to the 1990s one would be a good idea ,until i sat down and taught about all the salesmen who robbed us all over the years with their bullsh2t, and waffling, well let them fall to the gutter now for their pricefixing and avoiding warranty

Thanks for your considered opinion. Do you stay up all night worring about these things or what?

Owen

leitrim lad wrote: »

... bail out the yupees who fix prices and never ... all the salesmen who robbed us all over the years with their bullsh2t, and waffling ... pricefixing and avoiding warranty

Seriously. Grow up. 99% of Dealership staff are ordinary joes working ordinary jobs. You're referring to a tiny minority who infest every trade, banking, property, supermarkets, hospitals, etc.

seasam

I think we should forget about peoples problems with salesmen & dealerships over the years and look it as a way of generating much needed revenue for the government through vat & vrt

bladespin

Saab Ed wrote: »

There might not be anyone left to provide the service......Be under no illusion ,the motor trade is on its knees

As are most in retail, furniture manufacturing and sales, builders providers, builders (sorry ) etc, etc, etc, unfortunately the government cant save them either. They'll go for the survival of the fittest thing and whoever's left in the end will be the ones who benefit from a scheme when there is money, these schemes are designed to get people who have the money to part with it, thing is right now noone has it.

Anan1

Saab Ed wrote: »

Some industries are so large by boosting them the trickle down effect helps everyone and the motor industry is one of them. Thats why world wide governments are moving to save so called loss making car companies because even making a loss it cost far less to keep these people in employment than not to for now.

This is an argument that's been raging for a long time! In the short term, i'd favour subsidies myself - if we manufactured cars.

Owen

bladespin wrote: »

As are most in retail, furniture manufacturing and sales, builders providers, builders (sorry ) etc, etc, etc, unfortunately the government cant save them either.

However, the Government have directly F*cked the motor trade. There's a difference.

Saab Ed

bladespin wrote: »

As are most in retail, furniture manufacturing and sales, builders providers, builders (sorry ) etc, etc, etc, unfortunately the government cant save them either. They'll go for the survival of the fittest thing and whoever's left in the end will be the ones who benefit from a scheme when there is money, these schemes are designed to get people who have the money to part with it, thing is right now noone has it.

But it is already starting with the bank bail outs...Gets the money flowing. Then you need people to spend it somewhere and if the government are throwing money at it well what better way to get some of it back.

Anan1

seasam wrote: »

I think we should forget about peoples problems with salesmen & dealerships over the years and look it as a way of generating much needed revenue for the government through vat & vrt

The point is that much of the money leaves the country straight away, as all new cars have to be imported.

leitrim lad

yes saab ed i see your point ,that would work in a country that manufactures cars, but not here, all we have here is a gang of con men, who had it good for long enough and now they come crying to the government to bail them out because ,everyone has copped on to their rediculas prices, and their posh accents,
if people wanted to buy new cars they would, so forget about your so called motor industry ,until ireland starts manufacturing cars we dont have such an industry,
and no matter what deals or offers are there people arent going to buy new cars in uncertain times just because the salesman wants them too

Saab Ed

ned78 wrote: »

However, the Government have directly F*cked the motor trade. There's a difference.

For government read: GREEN PARTY. Bunch of twonks :mad:

Saab Ed

Anan1 wrote: »

The point is that much of the money leaves the country straight away, as all new cars have to be imported.

So what about a private import 2 year old car with a lower VRT rate now than the same car that was bought here 2 yeras ago new. All leaving the country...

Saab Ed

leitrim lad wrote: »

yes saab ed i see your point ,that would work in a country that manufactures cars, but not here, all we have here is a gang of con men, who had it good for long enough and now they come crying to the government to bail them out because ,everyone has copped on to their rediculas prices, and their posh accents,
if people wanted to buy new cars they would, so forget about your so called motor industry ,until ireland starts manufacturing cars we dont have such an industry,
and no matter what deals or offers are there people arent going to buy new cars in uncertain times just because the salesman wants them too

With all due respect you dont know what you're talking about. We're having a serious conversation here so if you want to rant then start another thread.

PS I dont know you from Adam but you sound like a bit of a conman to me. ( In posh accent ofcourse )

Owen

Anan1 wrote: »

The point is that much of the money leaves the country straight away, as all new cars have to be imported.

Who gives a flying feck if most of the money leaves the country? I couldn't care less if it does. What I do care about are livlihoods, and the protection of jobs in all industries. Saying we shouldn't encourage the sale of cars because the lions share of the money goes abroad is exactly like saying we shouldn't buy dishwashers/tvs/fridges/turkisk travertine tiles for the same reasons. And where would the country be then? Desolate, that's where.

The only way out of this retarded bung hole of a recession that FF and the Greens directly caused through mismanagement, is for Irish people to suppoer Irish businesses, regardless of where they're sourcing their products from. It's the margin that the business brings in is what's important, not the costs that get exported abroad. Margins means businesses stay open, staff get retained, and if those businesses weather this storm, they'll be able to grow and develop in time.

Anan1

Saab Ed wrote: »

But it is already starting with the bank bail outs...Gets the money flowing. Then you need people to spend it somewhere and if the government are throwing money at it well what better way to get some of it back.

Perhaps, but you need people to spend it so the money stays in Ireland. You pay the mechanic's wages, he spends the money here on his family - that's good. You buy a new car, half the money goes to Germany - that's bad. All assuming your primary interest is Ireland's economic health, rather than that of our EU.;)

Saab Ed

Anan1 wrote: »

Perhaps, but you need people to spend it so the money stays in Ireland. You pay the mechanic's wages, he spends the money here on his family - that's good. You buy a new car, half the money goes to Germany - that's bad. All assuming your primary interest is Ireland's economic health, rather than that of our EU.;)

But we're all the one now

Anan1

ned78 wrote: »

Who gives a flying feck if most of the money leaves the country? I couldn't care less if it does. What I do care about are livlihoods, and the protection of jobs in all industries. Saying we shouldn't encourage the sale of cars because the lions share of the money goes abroad is exactly like saying we shouldn't buy dishwashers/tvs/fridges/turkisk travertine tiles for the same reasons. And where would the country be then? Desolate, that's where.

The only way out of this retarded bung hole of a recession that FF and the Greens directly caused through mismanagement, is for Irish people to suppoer Irish businesses, regardless of where they're sourcing their products from. It's the margin that the business brings in is what's important, not the costs that get exported abroad. Margins means businesses stay open, staff get retained, and if those businesses weather this storm, they'll be able to grow and develop in time.

The money that leaves the country can't help us - it's gone. The money that stays here continues to support our economy.

Anan1

Saab Ed wrote: »

But we're all the one now

That's a whole other day's row.;)

leitrim lad

your funny saab ed very funny, a serios conversation ,your the gobsheen who wants the government to bailout car dealers, what do you want them to do ,give each car dealer a blank cheqe, to rescue your little so called "motor industry" cop on waffler

Owen

Anan1 wrote: »

The money that leaves the country can't help us - it's gone. The money that stays here continues to support our economy.

... which is ... ready for it? The Margin that the garage makes on the car. The same as the margin Power City makes on their Japanese TVs. That's a basic business fundamental.

Saab Ed

Im glad you enjoyed it....all my friends say Im funny too.....how bout that

Saab Ed

ned78 wrote: »

... which is ... ready for it? The Margin that the garage makes on the car. The same as the margin Power City makes on their Japanese TVs. That's a basic business fundamental.

No VRT on a telly

Anan1

ned78 wrote: »

... which is ... ready for it? The Margin that the garage makes on the car. The same as the margin Power City makes on their Japanese TVs. That's a basic business fundamental.

Agreed. This is why it makes better economic sense for our money to be spent on Irish-produced goods & services rather than imports - be they cars, TVs, or washing machines.