No decrease in Social Welfare Payments?

daisy123

I'm just wondering is there a reason behind the no decrease in Job Seekers Allowance/Benefits? Legislation or something? It was promised that all areas of society would bear the brunt equally, and yet everybodies income is coming down except those who are not working.

I realise that it is very hard to be out of employment, but if everybody has to tighten their belts and change habits in their lifestyles etc, why can't people on the Live Register do the same?

As is stands, the money I earn for a 37.5 hour week is not coming in at much more than the dole when the new levy is taken into account, and I'm sure there's people earning less than I am.

So, I was just wondering if there was a legal reason for not decreasing payments NOW as opposed to looking at them in subsequent budgets?

snubbleste

daisy123 wrote: »

..
So, I was just wondering if there was a legal reason for not decreasing payments NOW as opposed to looking at them in subsequent budgets?

No there isn't a legal reason.

johnnyskeleton

Push comes to shove, they could cancel all social welfare payments and benefits tomorrow if they liked. However, they evidently perceive this to be political suicide.

Sierra Oscar

Well under 20's job seekers allowance has been halved.

The payments should have decreased 4% at least in line with the projected falling cost of living.

foxy06

My brother is 25 never had a job in his life (so nothing to do with this recession then) and gets 200 quid a week despite living at home and having everything handed to him. Fair play for cutting the dole for under 20's but they should means test the dole for people living at home with no expenses. He has a 40 inch flat screen tv he bought with his back dated Dole money for gods sake!!! They really don't hit the people who don't need it.

Sierra Oscar

foxy06 wrote: »

My brother is 25 never had a job in his life (so nothing to do with this recession then) and gets 200 quid a week despite living at home and having everything handed to him. Fair play for cutting the dole for under 20's but they should means test the dole for people living at home with no expenses. He has a 40 inch flat screen tv he bought with his back dated Dole money for gods sake!!! They really don't hit the people who don't need it.

I totally agree.

Highsider

Just about to post a thread on this particular issue myself. With the amount of indirect taxes,taxes,tax levy as well as my rent etc...with the money i'm on i'm beginning to think i'd be better off on the dole. Seriously if i got rent allowance and all the other benefits you get on the dole i think i'd be better off. Crazy :mad: Why is it if you work and try and do your bit you get royally f**ked and if you sit on your arse doing SFA you get everything you need to get by and more. At the very least long term dole heads (year or more) should have had their dole cut by half. Very angry right now.

Once you reach 25 there is no means test.

Anyone under that age won't recieve much, or nothing at all if one/both parents have half decent jobs.

Tipsy Mac

They took the Christmas bonus payment away so that 1 week from 53 gone so a little less than a 2% cut if you look at it that way.

AckwelFoley

It hasnt been touched as such , however he did indicate that it could be in subsequent budgets.

What is possible is that if the economy deflates ie the cost of goods and services decreases the welfare payments would be cut to reflect the decrease

eg, if the economy deflates by 6 % welfare may be cut by 5 %

líreacán

Highsider wrote: »

with the money i'm on i'm beginning to think i'd be better off on the dole.

A lot of people I work with are thinking the same thing. The only thing I think of is that it is usually easier to find a job while IN a job.

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

They took the Christmas bonus payment away so that 1 week from 53 gone so a little less than a 2% cut if you look at it that way.

Yes, while this is true, the rest of us have to tighten our belts year round. Christmas will just be a little tighter this year for those on benefits. Most things at Christmas are a luxury anyway, not a right. Perhaps it will do the attitude of this country good to be a little less materialistic.

Rented Mule

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

They took the Christmas bonus payment away so that 1 week from 53 gone so a little less than a 2% cut if you look at it that way.

True, but that is also more money that will not be spent in the Republic at Christmas. This will hurt businesses as much as the people who no longer receive this beneift.

sunnyside

Local elections in June. The unemployed people will be at home to answer the door to the canidates so they wouldn't want the unemployed to be getting too upset just yet.

nesf

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Well under 20's job seekers allowance has been halved.

The small print according to RTE is that this will not happen where the person has children or where they are co-habiting with a partner with children.

donegal lass 4

Its a disgrace, that they are young people who feel the dole offers them a better lifestyle than employment! The shame is that in the case of min wage earners. . Its probarly true!

ionix5891

nesf wrote: »

The small print according to RTE is that this will not happen where the person has children or where they are co-habiting with a partner with children.

yay encourage them to have babies and more mouths to suck of the social welfare tit when they grow up

RonMexico

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

They took the Christmas bonus payment away so that 1 week from 53 gone so a little less than a 2% cut if you look at it that way.

No it was an extra bonus that was granted to you not out of necessity but out of generosity during the good times. Naturally people then come to expect it like they expect other hand-outs from the government. I work and got feck all of a bonus so consider yourself lucky you got it at all.

nesf

ionix5891 wrote: »

yay encourage them to have babies and more mouths to suck of the social welfare tit when they grow up

Meh, that's already there due to Child Allowance etc.

Richard Dower

donegal lass 4 wrote: »

Its a disgrace, that they are young people who feel the dole offers them a better lifestyle than employment! The shame is that in the case of min wage earners. . Its probarly true!

But it is true!!...i know people who earn more not working then working, they'd lose money if they started working!

easyeason3

Dole probably seems a lot of money to some people right now but in reality it doesn't go that far. Coming from earning a fairly decent salary, and paying tax on that I might add, it has been a major kick in the ass to reign myself in to live on €204 a week considering I have a car loan to keep up with, trying my best to sell the car but like everything at the moment it's a slow process.

Anyway it's not by choice I'm signing on & I would only love to have a job to go into but I don't & I'm not the only one out there feeling like this.

It does bug me when I have to go into social welfare to sign on once a month & I can hand pick people in the queue who have never done a days work & has no ambition to. It bugs me even more when I'm standing directly behind some of them & get the whiff of last nights beer. And it nearly makes me cry when I see those exact same people strolling from the pub to the bookies & back each day. You might think I'm making this up but I'm not. It makes my blood boil.

I'm a little bit surprised they didn't do something with social welfare but I'm going to be honest & say that I'm glad. I honestly don't see how I could survive financially if it was lowered by more than €10. Things are that tight.
But I'm not stupid enough not to know that it must be soul destroying for people to work on average a 39 hour week & come out with slightly more. I can see exactly why people would feel this way but I can tell you that being on the dole is not all it's cracked up to be, contrary to what some people might think.

Theres a lot to be said for having your pride & it's hard to find that standing in a dole queue.

Richard Dower

ionix5891 wrote: »

yay encourage them to have babies and more mouths to suck of the social welfare tit when they grow up

This is true also!, you will find certain housing estate type who deliberatly have kids to get more money!! :mad:

We might also see more "arrangements" ie...fraud, people pretending to be couples etc.

rapture 3

god forbid any of you lose ur jobs.then we ll see how YOU live.on 200 a week or whatever it is.

Richard Dower

easyeason3 wrote: »

Dole probably seems a lot of money to some people right now but in reality it doesn't go that far. Coming from earning a fairly decent salary, and paying tax on that I might add, it has been a major kick in the ass to reign myself in to live on €204 a week considering I have a car loan to keep up with, trying my best to sell the car but like everything at the moment it's a slow process.

Anyway it's not by choice I'm signing on & I would only love to have a job to go into but I don't & I'm not the only one out there feeling like this.

It does bug me when I have to go into social welfare to sign on once a month & I can hand pick people in the queue who have never done a days work & has no ambition to. It bugs me even more when I'm standing directly behind some of them & get the whiff of last nights beer. And it nearly makes me cry when I see those exact same people strolling from the pub to the bookies & back each day. You might think I'm making this up but I'm not. It makes my blood boil.

I'm a little bit surprised they didn't do something with social welfare but I'm going to be honest & say that I'm glad. I honestly don't see how I could survive financially if it was lowered by more than €10. Things are that tight.
But I'm not stupid enough not to know that it must be soul destroying for people to work on average a 39 hour week & come out with slightly more. I can see exactly why people would feel this way but I can tell you that being on the dole is not all it's cracked up to be, contrary to what some people might think.

Theres a lot to be said for having your pride & it's hard to find that standing in a dole queue.

The things you mention are absolutely true, so don't worry about people think you're lying

ionix5891

rapture 3 wrote: »

god forbid any of you lose ur jobs.then we ll see how YOU live.on 200 a week or whatever it is.

i had to live on 200 a week not too many years ago but i had to work for it washing dishes and doing other hard restaurant work since i couldn't get the dole at time

dont lecture me about how hard it is to be getting 200+ a week for doing nothing

Richard Dower

rapture 3 wrote: »

god forbid any of you lose ur jobs.then we ll see how YOU live.on 200 a week or whatever it is.

It's not easy for those who genuinely need it, this thread shows that it differs from case to case, but...there is that segment of society, that housing estate types i truely dispise :mad:

The types who know and play the system, the types who commit the crimes and engage in anti social behaviour, that "class" or section of society is causing alot of Irelands problems, on sooo many levels.

líreacán

rapture 3 wrote: »

god forbid any of you lose ur jobs.then we ll see how YOU live.on 200 a week or whatever it is.

I already live on way less than 200 a week and save the rest (although not much more) for this exact possible occurrence. Granted I don't pay rent (although if on benefits this would be supplemented) and I don't have bills, but have worked out what my bills WOULD be if away from home and could still do it on 200 a week. I might have to socialise less and take less holidays, but once again they are LUXURIES and can scale them back if needed.

Wasn't the dole about 80-90 euro less about 5 years ago? Or am I totally wrong their?

Goods have not gone up 80% since then so I see no reason for this increase.

easyeason3

Richard Dower wrote: »

It's not easy for those who genuinely need it, this thread shows that it differs from case to case, but...there is that segment of society, that housing estate types i truely dispise :mad:

The types who know and play the system, the types who commit the crimes and engage in anti social behaviour, that "class" or section of society is causing alot of Irelands problems, on sooo many levels.

Yep, you are one hundred percent right & that is what I have a huge problem with. When times were good & you couldn't turn in the street without getting a job offer there was always a segment of society that were signing on for no valid reason.

sunnyside

rapture 3 wrote: »

god forbid any of you lose ur jobs.then we ll see how YOU live.on 200 a week or whatever it is.

Have none of you ever been students? I've never earned a massive income so I have no fear of the dole. I don't want to live that lifestyle but I know I could do it for a while. €204 is enough to pay for food, car loan and a few household bills. And that's before medical card and rent allowance.

daisy123

I am glad to see people agreeing with me here. Just had a heated discussion with my sister and her friends about this. They are all due to leave courses the end of this year and plan on going on the dole as finding a job is "too hard" at the moment. I agree it is difficult, but a lot of them have given up before they even began! And as students, they have been living on much less until now!

sunnyside

easyeason3 wrote: »

there was always a segment of society that were signing on for no valid reason.

Some people just aren't employable.

greendom

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Push comes to shove, they could cancel all social welfare payments and benefits tomorrow if they liked. However, they evidently perceive this to be political suicide.

Not to mention social and economic suicide too

sunnyside

sunnyside wrote: »

Some people just aren't employable.

And we have disability payments for that.

sillysasauge

Im 26 now and on the dole for over a year and get 200 euro a week, although I pay my parents 300 a month out of that. Even with this and paying for my own food I am basically live the same lifestyle I had while I was working, except that I am not saving any money.

My friends from London can't believe how much we get here, it's way too much. It should be 125 euro a week in my opinion. The incentive to get work would be much higher if i couldn't do the things i could do while i was working (going out drinking, buying clothes, gym membership etc). I was kind of half hoping that there would be a big cut in the dole just to give me a kick up the arse.

Richard Dower

easyeason3 wrote: »

Yep, you are one hundred percent right & that is what I have a huge problem with. When times were good & you couldn't turn in the street without getting a job offer there was always a segment of society that were signing on for no valid reason.

It's IN-BREED into them not to get a job, it's a generational way of living and thinking. Everyone around them is on the dole so the cycle continues....yes, it's a very wide and sweeping generalistion and yes i conceed not every single housing estate type are like this and some do try get out, but a large section do and continue to do and they have children and breed another generation of uneducated thugs who have no ambition and no dreams and see no way out of playing the welfare system and leading unfulfilled lives.

I honestly belive this goes deeper then socio-enomonic....i know i am labeling but i see it all the time, it's hard not to!

rapture 3

i mean for genuine people with mortgages,who bought a car,who live in the outskirts of dublin,who can no longer pay for there car,or petrol,insurance,tax,food shopping,clothes for their kids,put their kids in school,books etc.they are not luxury items they are essential for day to day living.and thats just a few things,gas esb,i cant see 200 quid going very far.alright if ur single ya might be able to handle things a bit better,but for familys its dooms day.and yes we all know people who never worked a day in their lives,or people who scam the system,but for a second think of those who dont.

Richard Dower

sunnyside wrote: »

Some people just aren't employable.

Thats not it, anyone can dig a ditch or paint a fence...they don't want to work...period. What they do is take the dole then do other jobs on the side, to top things up. I have seen people on the dole with big houses, like 5/6 bedroom with extensions and the best clobber inside.

Granted these familes do have alot of kids, 4-6, sometimes more....but they have all the trappings of any middle income family.

eamonnm79

RonMexico wrote: »

No it was an extra bonus that was granted to you not out of necessity but out of generosity during the good times. Naturally people then come to expect it like they expect other hand-outs from the government. I work and got feck all of a bonus so consider yourself lucky you got it at all.

If people used to get 53 payments and now get 52 its a back door 2% Cut.
Could the moderator please change the headline of this thread?

PCros

The reason they aren't touching the dole money is probably down to the fact that nearly 400,000 people are on it, if they take it away/reduce you would have those people (myself included) cutting back on consumer spending.

Frankly I would give my right arm to get a job and as said in a previous post, standing in a queue is so depressing!

An Ard Ri

I really have sympathy for people who have recently been made unemployed such as those in Dell for example. I cant imagine what it like especially as they have mortgage payments, car loans, strain on family life etc..

However, it is the wasters on long term unmeployed, the 4% who chose not to work during the boom times (i obviously exclude the diasbled from this statement) who should have their social welfare payments halved.

I see them everyday in town, these yokes are actually recession proof! Today was time to hit the malingerers in society but government have hit the taxpayer again.

Whoever it last out of the country today, would they switch out the lights!

easyeason3

sunnyside wrote: »

Some people just aren't employable.

Not even for a CE scheme of watering flowers? I'm sorry but I know people who have slight mental and/ or physical disabilities that are in such Fas run schemes & function perfectly well.

The kind of person I'm hinting at is the one you see hanging around a pub at 10.30 in the morning, the kind of person that has put in more compensation claims than I've had hot dinners, the kind of person that laughs at the good of decent people going out to work, the kind of person who has 5 or 6 kids when it's blatantly obvious they can't look after one & the kind of person who spends the childrens allowance on drink/ drugs.

Think I'm being a bit dramatic? Go down to the dole office on signing on day & have a look yourself. Stand outside the post office on dole day & watch where a few of them go after collecting their money. Usually to the nearest pub that hasn't barred them already.

Richard Dower

I think we ALL know the "types" we are talking about here, and they are smart!...they know all the loopholes, trade information...actively seek to defraud the system.

easyeason3

Richard Dower wrote: »

I think we ALL know the "types" we are talking about here, and they are smart!...they know all the loopholes, trade information...actively seek to defraud the system.

Personally I would only love to be employed by the government to investigate some of the suspected fraud cases that are reported.

Jah Luff

I am 19 I have a car and a baby what am i supposed to do with 100 euro? whipe my ass? cuz thats about all its guna be good for?

sillysasauge

easyeason3 wrote: »

Personally I would only love to be employed by the government to investigate some of the suspected fraud cases that are reported.

You could be on to something there!

Richard Dower

sillysasauge wrote: »

You could be on to something there!

Indeed!...how about pay people to report fraudsters?....once proven of course

Richard Dower

Jah Luff wrote: »

I am 19 I have a car and a baby what am i supposed to do with 100 euro? whipe my ass? cuz thats about all its guna be good for?

For €100 you'll barely be able to wipe the babys ass!

easyeason3

Richard Dower wrote: »

For €100 you'll barely be able to wipe the babys ass!

I'd imagine she would be means tested. €100 wouldn't buy baby wipes to wipe the babys ass.

See the panic is starting now, genuine people out there sweating over it & the leeches probably still sitting pretty & laughing at the good of it.

líreacán

Jah Luff wrote: »

I am 19 I have a car and a baby what am i supposed to do with 100 euro? whipe my ass? cuz thats about all its guna be good for?

READ BELOW:

nesf wrote: »

The small print according to RTE is that this will not happen where the person has children or where they are co-habiting with a partner with children.

And maybe start taking public transport? Walking? Save on petrol costs anyway.

ionix5891

im surprised that all these people with babies think they are entitled to be given support by the GOVERNMENT for them having sex without contraceptives

theres this thing called family planning, would save you alot of financial trouble and give your children a better start in life if you and your partner plan these things thru

so to sum it up, dont be silly wear a condom on that willy

justwhatithink

The people who have been made redundant have already taken a serious pay cut. You cant blame people for having bought themselves a car when they were working and now have a loan to keep paying so i think the €200/week to fund this, insurance, food bills, accommadation is fair for the moment. Most people will find it difficult to sell a car at the moment. Also, these people are sitting round all day trying to find a job and also something to occupy some of their time to stop them going crazy. I have a brother, made redundant, back living with our parents in small village in west of ireland (father works but small business owner and could do with the dole himself hes so badly hit and cant afford to keep my brother, ive had to loan them money myself). My brother occupies himself doing bits around the houss, playing football & going to the club gym, and if he didnt have his car to visit his friends out the country and go to football he'd go off his head.
In our small village there are numerous families all of whom have never worked or been off benefits. They are all in council houses, obtained by having numerous kids by all different fathers (cause it doesnt really matter who the father is when your having it for the purpose of increasing eligibility for benefit). Theyre going around driving 09 cars! I am currently considering buying an 2001 car, i cant afford an 09! These people disgust me. My brother and parents were cross examined means tested for him to get the dole, why are these benefit suckers not means tested and made do community projects/seek a job?
I work in a very affluent area in dublin. One of our clients told me today she was battling with her daughter over buying her an iPhone, shes 9! Her class mates have them!!!
This country needs a kick up the rear and benefit should be means tested regardless of whether its child care benefit, medical cards, dole etc.