The Resurrection of Christ Jesus - A Historical Fact

Pamela111

This week, most humans will feel an emptyness within their soul if they don't beleive in Jesus or if they are in a state of mortal sin. This will be particularly evident at 3pm Friday. The great news is that Jesus wishes all mankind to be saved and that His Mercy is available to everyone who asks for forgivness with a sincere heart and reforms their materialistic or immoral lives.

Dr. Gary Habermas is a former atheist, an expert who for most of his life has researched all religeons and came to the conclusion that the death and resurrection of the Christ is not merely a faith or belief but an actual historical fact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsuczs8BJE8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TBBzTMSUC0

PDN

Pamela, I have edited out your signature because of the 'How Stupid are Atheists' banner. Let's not stoop to their level, eh?

robindch

Pamela111 wrote: »

This week, most humans will feel an emptyness within their soul [...] This will be particularly evident at 3pm Friday.

3pm Friday is just the time for a post-work beer on a day when all the pubs are closed. It's the emptiness in my hands that worries me.

mardybumbum

Oh I seen the flyers for that today. Im glad I stopped to read them. I needed a good laugh to cheer me up. I was feeling a bit empty inside.

PDN

mardybumbum wrote: »

Oh I seen the flyers for that today. Im glad I stopped to read them. I needed a good laugh to cheer me up. I was feeling a bit empty inside.

You saw flyers for what?

Good Friday? Or for a debate that took place in the US a couple of years ago?

mardybumbum

It was a flyer in college for a debate thats taking place on the proof of the ressurrection. :pac:

Edit: And what is the point of editing the OP's signature only to quote it in your own reply???
I think the majority of people wont care.

ScumLord

Pamela111 wrote: »

This week, most humans will feel an emptyness within their soul if they don't beleive in Jesus or if they are in a state of mortal sin. This will be particularly evident at 3pm Friday. The great news is that Jesus wishes all mankind to be saved and that His Mercy is available to everyone

As long as they do what you think he wants them to do?

I can't watch the videos here, so what's the proof?

Pamela111

ScumLord wrote: »

As long as they do what you think he wants them to do?

I can't watch the videos here, so what's the proof?

All historical records point to the conclusion that Jesus Christ is the Messiah as confirmed by His resurrection.

Pamela111

robindch wrote: »

3pm Friday is just the time for a post-work beer on a day when all the pubs are closed. It's the emptiness in my hands that worries me.

When one needs drunkeness to bring happiness then one knows that emptyness will be their cup for their lives.

ScumLord

All historical records???


I never came across that in our European or Irish history books in school.

Name one (apart from the bible).

Pamela111

ScumLord wrote: »

All historical records???


I never came across that in our European or Irish history books in school.

Name one (apart from the bible).

Don't take my word. Take the word of Dr. Gary Habarmas, Ph D, an expert. Dr. Habarmas is a former atheist who set out on a mission to discover the Truth and found it.

There is historical data from around that time.

Also; the witnesses that faced execution rather than say that they did not see the resurrected Christ Jesus; why would they do such a thing unless they fully beleived that they seen Christ Jesus? Would you do this unless you were 100% sure?

ScumLord

Pamela111 wrote: »

Don't take my word. Take the word of Dr. Gary Habarmas, Ph D, an expert. Dr. Habarmas is a former atheist who set out on a mission to discover the Truth and found it.

There is historical data from around that time.

Also; the witnesses that faced execution rather than say that they did not see the resurrected Christ Jesus; why would they do such a thing unless they fully beleived that they seen Christ Jesus? Would you do this unless you were 100% sure?

I'll have to wait until this evening to watch those videos so. I doubt they'll hold much weight with me though seeing as they're broadcast on a US Christian channel and based on data from around 2000 years ago. I really fail to see how any of that is proof.

If it was coming from the Catholic church I'd take more notice as it would be possible that they would have actual evidence from that time.

Kipperhell

Pamela111 wrote: »

Also; the witnesses that faced execution rather than say that they did not see the resurrected Christ Jesus; why would they do such a thing unless they fully beleived that they seen Christ Jesus? Would you do this unless you were 100% sure?

Isn't history littered with disciplines who died and killed themselves due to belief without any vision or sight? As it not unknown for charismatic leaders to evoke such loyalty and belief how is that any proof? Your proof that they never changed their testimony comes from where exactly? People have been tortured and sign confessions and still been killed.

Dr. Gary Habarmas appears to have won the debate but never gave any proof. He believes the bible is accurate because it comes from the right time according to him.

Fanny Cradock

Talking about proof and 100% belief is entirely inappropriate. We have to be both realistic and honest with regard two these two claims.

While there is historical evidence for the claims of Christianity, there is no proof or 100% certainty. Such claims are as inaccurate as the demand for proof and certainty is unreasonable. We deal in gradients of both.

I personally found the evidence convincing - at least in terms of making me pursue the whole God question further. Whereas some might have gained faith through an analysis of the historical evidence, I don't believe that I could have looked at the resurrection as a purely historical event and simply decided that Jesus was God. However, I don't wish to down play the evidence, it was a vital step on the road to faith. Indeed, Strobel (the anchor in the piece) wrote a reasonable defence of the evidence in The Case for Christ.

Anyway, we have had that same debate posted before. Habarmas doesn't get a chance to really get going (and impossibility for such a question given the time frame) and that Callahan fella they dragged off the street didn't look capable of starting. I've actually seem a considerably superior line of argument from Boards regulars then he managed.

kelly1

Pamela111 wrote: »

This week, most humans will feel an emptyness within their soul if they don't beleive in Jesus or if they are in a state of mortal sin. This will be particularly evident at 3pm Friday. The great news is that Jesus wishes all mankind to be saved and that His Mercy is available to everyone who asks for forgivness with a sincere heart and reforms their materialistic or immoral lives.

Dr. Gary Habermas is a former atheist, an expert who for most of his life has researched all religeons and came to the conclusion that the death and resurrection of the Christ is not merely a faith or belief but an actual historical fact.

Pamela, is this thread about 3pm Friday or the Resurrection? And if it's about Friday, what is your source? These kinds of sensational claims only give Catholicism a bad name.

lightening

PDN wrote: »

Let's not stoop to their level, eh?

You just stooped lower PDF eh?

I am an atheist, but I respect all peoples beliefs, I don't need you telling me I am below you at some level.

ben bedlam

Whats it like being the major of Crazytown Pamela111?

Fanny Cradock

It is possible to disagree with someone without insulting them.

Soul Winner

More on the resurrection by William Lane Craig:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYdzUYyIKMM

Plus if your are in the area of Phibsboro during this week, the Irish Faith Centre will be showing every night a presentation on the evidences for the resurrection of Jesus by the late Dr. Gene Scott.

More info here

lightening

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

It is possible to disagree with someone without insulting them.

Exactly. No need for that "stoop lower" stuff. I don't like the way PDN feels athiests are lower than him/her, it's insulting.

Pompey Magnus

Pamela111 wrote: »

There is historical data from around that time.

Unfortunately the evidence is not quite as convincing as you might like to think and frequently falls short of meeting the standards that historians set to identify reliable sources.

Also; the witnesses that faced execution rather than say that they did not see the resurrected Christ Jesus; why would they do such a thing unless they fully beleived that they seen Christ Jesus? Would you do this unless you were 100% sure?

How many eye witnesses that were martyred for refusing to deny the resurrection are listed in our "reliable" sources? Acts records the death of St James at the orders of Herod, however it doesn't say that James was ever offered the option of retracting his claims to save his life. St Stephen is also recorded being martyred in Acts but he was a convert to Christianity and was not an eye witness.

Not exactly a great list there for witnesses who were so sure of what they saw that they were willing to die rather than retract their statements.

But apparently there were non-Christian witnesses to the events surrounding the empty tomb. The guards who were put on the tomb claimed that the body was stolen by the followers of Jesus. They did not convert immediately to Christianity as one would expect of eye witnesses to the resurrection of a corpse, instead they publically contradicted the Christian claims.

So much for your claim that the eye witnesses were so convinced that they would willing face death rather than deny what they saw.

PDN

lightening wrote: »

Exactly. No need for that "stoop lower" stuff. I don't like the way PDN feels athiests are lower than him/her, it's insulting.

Grow up.

Take a look at the A&A forum. There is post after post and entire threads based around how intelligent atheists are and how stupid Christians are. What I was warning Pamela is that kind of muppetry is not welcome on this board, either from Christians or atheists. That is what I mean by low.

There are stupid Christians and there are intelligent Christians. There are stupid atheists and there are intelligent atheists.

robindch

Charco wrote: »

Unfortunately the evidence is not quite as convincing as you might like to think

Out of interest, do you have the quotes to hand?

Almost every day, somebody posts to the effect that a few notes concerning the apparent willingness of a few people to have themselves executed indicates that it is impossible for the written record, or the people concerned, to be mistaken.

It might be useful to try to take some of the overheated steam out of that particular argument.

Pompey Magnus

robindch wrote: »

Out of interest, do you have the quotes to hand?

The sections of the NT that deal with Christian martyrdoms are:

James' Martyrdom in Acts 12:1-2:

"It was about this time that King Herod arrested some who belonged to the church, intending to persecute them. He had James, the brother of John, put to death with the sword"

Stephen's martyrdom in Acts 6-7

"Now Stephen, a man full of God's grace and power, did great wonders and miraculous signs among the people. Opposition arose, however, from members of the Synagogue of the Freedmen (as it was called)—Jews of Cyrene and Alexandria as well as the provinces of Cilicia and Asia. These men began to argue with Stephen, but they could not stand up against his wisdom or the Spirit by whom he spoke.
Then they secretly persuaded some men to say, "We have heard Stephen speak words of blasphemy against Moses and against God."

So they stirred up the people and the elders and the teachers of the law. They seized Stephen and brought him before the Sanhedrin. They produced false witnesses, who testified, "This fellow never stops speaking against this holy place and against the law. For we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs Moses handed down to us."

...

When they heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."
At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul.

While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep


The idea that most of the disciples were martyred for their belief is pure fiction.

Overblood

lightening wrote: »

I don't like the way PDN feels athiests are lower than him/her, it's insulting.

But it's not true, so there's no need to be insulted.

PDN

Overblood wrote: »

But it's not true, so there's no need to be insulted.

Indeed it isn't true. I don't feel atheists are lower than me at all.

ScumLord

Charco wrote: »

But apparently there were non-Christian witnesses to the events surrounding the empty tomb.

Well really they where all non-Christian as the Christian faith didn't exist at the time.

I watched the videos. The hard "evidence" he talks about only relates to weather or not the resurrection was unique to Christianity or just a re-hash or older stories.

After that (in the second video) he's evidence is all based on second hand accounts from witnesses. The problem there is if they where close friends of Jesus they very well could have thought they saw him. It's common for people even today to think they saw a dead loved one even in the strangest of places. Peoples minds play tricks on them.

He made a good argument for it but really didn't give any evidence.

lightening

PDN wrote: »

Grow up.

There is no need for that, I am being reasonable with you.

PDN wrote: »

Take a look at the A&A forum. There is post after post and entire threads based around how intelligent atheists are and how stupid Christians are.

I don't care what goes on in A&A, I have my beliefs and you have yours. I fully respect your beliefs. We stand chest to chest, we both bleed, you don't have to "stoop" to any level. That's all, I don't want to argue or row.

PDN

lightening wrote: »

I don't care what goes on in A&A, I have my beliefs and you have yours. I fully respect your beliefs. We stand chest to chest, we both bleed, you don't have to "stoop" to any level. That's all, I don't want to argue or row.

In that case you don't need to take it personally. I was hardly saying that every atheist stoops to blanket generalisations or insults. Those who do (some of whom have posted in this thread) know who they are. I was making clear to Pamela that a blanket statement about atheists being stupid was unacceptable in this forum.

Morbert

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

It is possible to disagree with someone without insulting them.

No it isn't; you idiot.

lightening

Fair enough on making the point, its just not a nice way to say it. Didn't know there was such an "us and them" attitude to be honest, I am a bit more live and let live. Anyway, too many insults being thrown around here, from being told to grow up to people calling each other idiots, and for that reason, I'm out.

Galvasean

Okay, bad choice of phrasing by PDN perhaps. Let's jump on topic.
What's due to happen at 3pm on Friday? (apologies if someone mentioned it already)

ScumLord

Galvasean wrote: »

Okay, bad choice of phrasing by PDN perhaps. Let's jump on topic.
What's due to happen at 3pm on Friday? (apologies if someone mentioned it already)

Barbie and a few cans, weather permitting.

MrPudding

Galvasean wrote: »

Okay, bad choice of phrasing by PDN perhaps. Let's jump on topic.
What's due to happen at 3pm on Friday? (apologies if someone mentioned it already)

Oh, oh oh.... me, me... Is it the rapture?


MrP

2Scoops

Morbert wrote: »

No it isn't; you idiot.

Inappropriate semicolon use! :eek:

pts

Galvasean wrote: »

What's due to happen at 3pm on Friday? (apologies if someone mentioned it already)

I had a look at the tv3 tv guide. It could be something on Telly that OP is talking about, I'm thinking it's:

1. Son of God (tv3)
2. The Greatest Story Ever Told (channel 4. It starts at 11:45 though, maybe the best part is at 3)
3. Murder, She Wrote (BBC 2, if anyone can solve the murder of Jesus it's Jessica Fletcher )

ScumLord

pts wrote: »

[*]Murder, She Wrote (BBC 2, if anyone can solve the murder of Jesus it's Jessica Fletcher )
[/LIST]

We should finally get some definitive answers.

robindch

MrPudding wrote: »

Is it the rapture?

Hope so -- I'm on after-dinner wash-up this Friday evening.

pts

ScumLord wrote: »

We should finally get some definitive answers.

Hopefully, my money is on that the butler did it!

Malari

Pamela111 wrote: »

This week, most humans will feel an emptyness within their soul if they don't beleive in Jesus or if they are in a state of mortal sin. This will be particularly evident at 3pm Friday.

I'm confused. I don't have a soul so am I exempt? I kind of have to be somewhere on Friday at 3pm too, so what can those who believe they have "souls" expect?

PDN

Malari wrote: »

I'm confused. I don't have a soul so am I exempt? I kind of have to be somewhere on Friday at 3pm too, so what can those who believe they have "souls" expect?

The soul is the mind, will & emotions. So, yes, mindless, spineless, and emotionally retarded people are presumably exempt.

Malari

PDN wrote: »

The soul is the mind, will & emotions. So, yes, mindless, spineless, and emotionally retarded people are presumably exempt.

Ah, so the fact that I have a mind, spine and emotions means that they are only qualifying products for a soul, and no indication that you will automatically have one.

Fanny Cradock

Morbert wrote: »

No it isn't; you idiot.

Learn how to use a semi-colon.

Morbert

2Scoops wrote: »

Inappropriate semicolon use! :eek:

What was wrong with my semicolon use?

PDN

OK, let's have a little less bigotry against semi-colonists.

Galvasean

Okay now that we've had a page of joking, anybody know what the significance of 3pm on Friday is?

Malari

Galvasean wrote: »

Okay now that we've had a page of joking, anybody know what the significance of 3pm on Friday is?

I'm dying to find out!*

*probably in Pamela111's view literally...

pts

Galvasean wrote: »

Okay now that we've had a page of joking, anybody know what the significance of 3pm on Friday is?

I was serious with my telly hypothesis, according the the tv guide there is a Documentary called "Son of God". The info about it is:

An attempt to explain how historically accurate is the biblical life of Jesus of Nazareth, using the latest historical, archaeological, and astronomical research.

It starts at 13:20 though, not 15:00.

The Mad Hatter

Morbert wrote: »

What was wrong with my semicolon use?

Should have been a comma.

pts wrote: »

I was serious with my telly hypothesis, according the the tv guide there is a Documentary called "Son of God". The info about it is:

It starts at 13:20 though, not 15:00.

Does it end at 3? Presumably you can't gain wisdom just by watching the very beginning of it.

pts

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Does it end at 3? Presumably you can't gain wisdom just by watching the very beginning of it.

It finishes at 15:20. Maybe the best argument is last?
Oh I don't know, I think it might be hard to guess OP's meaning with the whole 3pm thing. If it's not too late I'll change my theory to everyone turning into pumpkins.

2Scoops

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Learn how to use a semi-colon.

Semicolon, not semi-colon. :pac: