Puraflo Sewage Treatment

SF09

Hi,

I'm looking for advice on the procedure on emptying a puraflo system, Bord na mona charge a fortune for the system and more then for a maintainence contract,(1 yearly visit) but then it's also extra to empty the system.

Does anyone know the best way to check if the system needs to be emptied. Does the sewage have to be taken away by a registered company with the EPA?

Any help would be appreciated...

davidoco

two elements to the puraflo

One - your septic tank which you installed and Bord na Mona take no responsibility for. Local ads paper will usually have a guy who will charge up to 100 euro to empty your septic tank. Should be done at least every 2 years although it does depend on size and use.

Two - your puraflo modules (green tanks) and the pump chamber. I don't think the peat moss within those tanks ever needs to be replaced. The only servicing required for the system would be the pump and the distribution chamber from the modules (if installed).

lobber

Davidoco is bang on. I have a puraflo and had some probs with it. paid for a service agreement and when they came out they showed me the issue was i hadn't de-sludged the septic tank. the maintenance contract covers the visit (basically getting someone to your site) so if all is runing smoothly it wasn't a waste of a visit. you do get charged for replacing parts but why would you expect to get this for free!!! do garages give away free parts?!?. A friend is with a different company (not naming so remain a little unbiased) who charge well in excess of Bord na Mona for call outs and service agreements!

The peat stuff does need to be changed but the more you clean the septic tank and be aware of what you put down the drains then it will make it last much longer!
hope this helps!

tinofapples

I too have the Puraflo system and just this evening got a fella to empty my figure 8 tank for me. I only got him to enter the 1st chamber, should I have emptied the 2nd chamber as well ? I think it mostly liquid watse in the second one.

Mocrie14

Hi

I have a puraflo system which was installed in 2003. Had the guy from BNM out yesterday to take his annual look over it and he says fibre in Modules needs replacing. Reckons it'll cost about €800 :eek:
Do I have to get this from Bord na Mona or are there other reputable suppliers which may be cheaper?

Thanks

kpobrien

I just collected 3 bags of peat fibre from board na mona today, it cost me €375.
Mine needs replacing because the modules were flooded and the fibres became clogged. I have to reposition the modules and add 2 feet of top soil to a large section of my garden for a new percolation area. It's a pain but it needs to be done!

Palimpsest

That is a bit suspicious. Our system was put in 2002. We have had the septic tank emptied annually and the system serviced regularly. We were serviced last month and told that we need to replace the fibres (quote came in at almost €1000). When we put in the system we were told that the fibres last around 15 years. Is this just a way of getting you to do it before you need to?????

kpobrien

I think that the only way your peat needs to be replaced is if it got saturated due to blockage or if the effluent that entered the modules was not filtered properly. I just emptied my old peat out today from the modules and both were completely clogged up.

Mazda1965

kpobrien wrote: »

I think that the only way your peat needs to be replaced is if it got saturated due to blockage or if the effluent that entered the modules was not filtered properly. I just emptied my old peat out today from the modules and both were completely clogged up.

Hi I am from castleBellingham and need to do the same job would love some advice John

kpobrien

If you need to change the peat fibres in you system you first need to ask yourself if the problem will reoccur. I had to re-position the modules and raise the top soil in the percolation area by 600mm. I needed to raise the soil because the water table was too high and the soil had bad drainage. I had to bring in 7 x 20 ton loads of topsoil at €100 a pop, but I think that I have solved the drainage problem.

Mazda1965

Many thanks for your reply who advised you what to do,I sorted out my percolation 2 years ago,how much did the replacement peat cost?thanks again john

kpobrien

Hi John,

I had to look for planning with meath co. co. so I got an engineer to advise (at a cost of €800 too). I am trying to get my planning issues sorted in case we decide to sell so the job was needed to be done. They have a list of recommended engineers on their website. I had to go by the book to pass planning,
kevin

kpobrien

Hi John,

I needed 3 x 1 tonne bales of peat the total came to €375, Kevin

Kashkai

My puraflow system has caused me no end of grief. I have my tank emptied annually but this hasn't prevented me having to replace the pump twice at €550 a go by Bord na Mona. The peat filtration is completely clogged despite it being just four years old (and we're careful what we put down the sewers). I had the entire garden dug up and put in ten land drains but this didn't resolve the problem.

I wouldn't put in a puraflow system again if I was building another house. It just doesn't work as projected and the ongoing costs are expensive.

kpobrien

Hi Dave, I know the feeling, believe me.
I think that your problem is the same as mine, you need to improve the soil or you will be throwing good money after bad.

I think you need to grab the bull by the horns and raise the percolation area by bringing in good quality topsoil and you also may have to reposition the modules.

That is what I had to do but I think that the problem is finally sorted.

Kashkai

kpobrien wrote: »

Hi Dave, I know the feeling, believe me.
I think that your problem is the same as mine, you need to improve the soil or you will be throwing good money after bad.

I think you need to grab the bull by the horns and raise the percolation area by bringing in good quality topsoil and you also may have to reposition the modules.

That is what I had to do but I think that the problem is finally sorted.

Thats what I did do when I put in the land drains. Apart from these 6 inch drains, with the 60 tonnes of pea gravel around them to aid percolation, I had the garden deep ploughed to break up heavy compacted soil, and then added topspoil onto this. The old clogged soil around the puraflow mound itself was completely removed off site and fresh soil added.

Result, one year on, new mound is clogged, system is backed up:mad:. I got a spade and dug into the mound where I apparently broke through a impermeable greasy barrier that had been retaining the liquid waste and this was like breaking a dam and the liquid poured out all black and foul smelling. Now we are careful what goes down the drains, i.e. never pour grease/oils down for instance but this didn't help. A call to Puraflow who are just five miles down the road from me had an engineer call out and his advice? "Put fresh soil in and perhaps some land drains". I told him I did this 12 months previous and his reponse "I'm afraid that you'll have to do it again".

Like I said, it just doesn't work.:mad:

kpobrien

I think your set up is a carbon copy of mine.
I learned the hard way that if the soil is bad you can put in all the gravel and drains you like but eventually it will clog up again and again.
I had to raise the modules up above ground level and heighten the percolation area by 2 feet also. I think you might have to do the same. I am no expert but I spent the past 3 years doing what you have done and the problem kept coming back. If you give me your email address I can forward you on a photo of the job I got done, Kevin

mickoo7

Can anybody tell me what a flashing red light on a puraflo means. Rang Board na Mona and they say its gona cost 100 euro just to call out. Has anyone had a similar problem.

kpobrien

The flashing light usually means that the pump sump is full, the pump is probably not working. Lift up the cover and take a look in. If you don't act quickly your system will begin to back up.

enricoh

rent out a 2" pump off your local hire shop, E25 every 2 years n pump it into the ditch

Poor Uncle Tom

enricoh wrote: »

rent out a 2" pump off your local hire shop, E25 every 2 years n pump it into the ditch

Advocating polluting the environment is not helping, nor is it legal.

splashthecash

Passed my percolation test yesterday so just finalising the plans now.

The engineer who did the test, put into his report that he suggested us use a Puraflow system. He said that there is a new EU directive coming in next year that is going to require anyone who has a traditional septic tank to upgrade it (whether he means take it out completely and put in a puraflow or just upgrade it to make it more in line with the "EU vision" of wastewater systems, im not sure.

I knew nothing about them so took a look online today and the advantages seem good but it does seem that some people are having issues regarding maintenance/blocking.

I notice that Bord na Mona is mentioned a lot when discussing these systems - I presume that they have their own implementation of the system and then there are other companies who do them or do Bord na Mona have some kind of license over it?

If there are different forms of the puraflow system, is there any one in particular that people feel is the best to use?

Also, noob question here but...when exactly is the wastewater system installed? Are the holes dug along with the foundation and then the tanks are installed or is it put in once all the main plumbing is laid down in the house.

Cheers all!

muffler

Apologies to anyone who has replied to this thread today but I had to remove posts that were in response to someone who spammed our forum with nothing more than a rant.

bcoppard

kpobrien wrote: »

I just collected 3 bags of peat fibre from board na mona today, it cost me €375.
Mine needs replacing because the modules were flooded and the fibres became clogged. I have to reposition the modules and add 2 feet of top soil to a large section of my garden for a new percolation area. It's a pain but it needs to be done!

Kevin,

Was the 3 bags of peat fibre enough to do the two modules of the system and how bulky was it to transport e.g. would it go in a small van?

Cheers

fealeranger

I don't mean to take this thread off course but some of what I'm reading here is starting to worry me as I have been advised in my percolation test by the engineer to install a Puraflow system. I am reading in threads here of people having to raise the ground after the system is installed. Should the engineer who did the percolation test not be responsible for setting out the percolation area and informing the client to raise the soil before it is installed? I have a few more queries on this.
Is the Puraflow separate to the septic tank or is it an actual septic tank?
Are B.N.M. the only distributor of these in Ireland?
If this is advised is there an alternative system that can be used like Biocycle systems?
Who installs this system?
Any ideas of the price of these systems(PM only)?
Any information on this system is very much appreciated.
Cheers

Poor Uncle Tom

fealeranger wrote: »

I don't mean to take this thread off course but some of what I'm reading here is starting to worry me as I have been advised in my percolation test by the engineer to install a Puraflow system. I am reading in threads here of people having to raise the ground after the system is installed. Should the engineer who did the percolation test not be responsible for setting out the percolation area and informing the client to raise the soil before it is installed? I have a few more queries on this.
Is the Puraflow separate to the septic tank or is it an actual septic tank?
Are B.N.M. the only distributor of these in Ireland?
If this is advised is there an alternative system that can be used like Biocycle systems?
Who installs this system?
Any ideas of the price of these systems(PM only)?
Any information on this system is very much appreciated.
Cheers

The Puraflo system is a basically a rectangular plastic box approximately 1.5m x 1.2m which is filled with peat fibres. The house wastes are directed to a tank (septic tank) where the outfall is piped to a pump chamber (or through gravity if your site allows) which directs the effluent to the peat chamber (Puraflo) which filters the effluent before it soaks away through the ground and ends up in the groundwater.

That's the basics of the system. The entire system is considered a sewerage treatment system. If you specifically don't want one of those systems you shouldn't be forced to accept one. There are other viable sewerage treatment systems on the market but it is ultimately up to your site assessor to GUIDE you in your choice, not force a specific system on you.

The Engineer

fealeranger wrote: »

I don't mean to take this thread off course but some of what I'm reading here is starting to worry me as I have been advised in my percolation test by the engineer to install a Puraflow system. I am reading in threads here of people having to raise the ground after the system is installed. Should the engineer who did the percolation test not be responsible for setting out the percolation area and informing the client to raise the soil before it is installed? I have a few more queries on this.
Is the Puraflow separate to the septic tank or is it an actual septic tank?
Are B.N.M. the only distributor of these in Ireland?
If this is advised is there an alternative system that can be used like Biocycle systems?
Who installs this system?
Any ideas of the price of these systems(PM only)?
Any information on this system is very much appreciated.
Cheers

These are all excellent questions, but are best put to your Engineer rather than relying on posts on boards. If you have contracted your Engineer, who should be a Chartered Engineer in addition to having Professional Indemnity Insurance for designing on-site wastewater treatment systems, to do the above work, then he is indeed responsible for doing the "setting out".

As for PuraFlo, this is a trademarked name and BNM are the only suppliers. You can always use alternatives, so long as the effluent quality at the back end and the disposal route (i.e. via raised polishing filter, via sand filter, etc. - whatever is specified by your Engineer / Local Authority) are not negatively impacted.

As for the BioCycle system - the capital cost and civil works involved with this system make it a very expensive system to install for most homeowners. BioCycle claim that their system is the "Rolls Royce" system, but there are now several systems using concrete tanks that are better solutions and cheaper to install. Shop around. Don't buy into the sales jazz from any organisation and, better yet, put the responsibility for system selection on your Engineer's shoulders. Tell him your budget and what yearly costs you are willing to spend on maintenance. After that, the decision gets much easier.

fealeranger

I know what you are saying about the Biocycle system. I got a quote from them last week and it was very expensive for me, even the cheaper system was expensive:eek:. Any ideas of the cost of a puraflow system(PM only)? Can you guys on here PM me with systems you have used or even heard about and I can read up a bit on them and put some alternatives towards my engineer and see what he says. If possible include a round about cost for the system. Cheers

Kashkai

I've done everything possible to get my puraflow to work, new soil, new percolation area, and raised the damn mound by two feet but still doesn't work. In addition, the damn pump has failed AGAIN:mad:

If you like grief, like hassle and have thousands of euro to throw away, by all means get a puraflow system, otherwise, stay well away from it. It doesn't bloody work (and a BNM maintenance guy actually admitted that to me:eek:).

Villain

I was going to get the Puraflo system but two people I know haven't got more than 4 years out of the peat and BNM charge nicely for replacing it.

James.feenan

Can anyone tell me what to do I been reading all your comments and I got the shape of 8 tank empty ,the pump didn't seem to be working so I lifted the lead and that tank is full should I empty this tank and check the pump? Will the pump turn on if this tank is full ?

Poor Uncle Tom

James.feenan wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what to do I been reading all your comments and I got the shape of 8 tank empty ,the pump didn't seem to be working so I lifted the lead and that tank is full should I empty this tank and check the pump? Will the pump turn on if this tank is full ?

So your system is:
House to Concrete Septic Tank to Pumping Chamber to Puraflo module.
The system is not working, you have emptied the septic tank but the pumping chamber is full. If this is correct, then it points to the pump not working.

Your first step is to get the pump checked.

northwest8867

Our modules seem to be saturated, ive de sludged the septic tank, will the peat dry out? or will i have to replace it? also ive been told that normal peat moss in bags does the same job??
Can anyone help

BryanF

northwest8867 wrote: »

Our modules seem to be saturated, ive de sludged the septic tank, will the peat dry out? or will i have to replace it? also ive been told that normal peat moss in bags does the same job??
Can anyone help

Have you contacted the company?

northwest8867

BryanF wrote: »

Have you contacted the company?

Yes and they ceased trading last Thursday(ANAU) they will still do services for existing contracts. I spoke with BNM rep, and he was saying normal peat moss? but wont stand over it.
Really pissed off, as its only 2 years old, and looks like a good few €€€€s to replace

Villain

northwest8867 wrote: »

Yes and they ceased trading last Thursday(ANAU) they will still do services for existing contracts. I spoke with BNM rep, and he was saying normal peat moss? but wont stand over it.
Really pissed off, as its only 2 years old, and looks like a good few €€€€s to replace

You mean Anua? They have ceased trading? Who else supplies modules for Puraflo systems?

northwest8867

Villain wrote: »

You mean Anua? They have ceased trading? Who else supplies modules for Puraflo systems?

I dont know, I phoned them on Friday and they informed me, they have ceased trading.

Im trying to get peat for the modules, and the rep is not one bit bothered.

wardy1

Does anyone know anything further about Anua ceasing trading? Is the business being sold on?

Was due to install a P6+Puraflo in coming weeks and wondering what to do now.

bryanwelden

I am having the same issue. It's on my planning for a bord na mona. I rang around and came across -snip- in Kildare who still does them but they are mostly second hand puraflow tanks.

northwest8867

wardy1 wrote: »

Does anyone know anything further about Anua ceasing trading? Is the business being sold on?

Was due to install a P6+Puraflo in coming weeks and wondering what to do now.

Yes they have ceased trading, I would get on the phone asap, hope you've not bought it?

northwest8867

Can any one answer this, the bags the peat comes in, should they be in the modules? as the company who fitted the system have the bags in the modules, and going by ANUA they are not ment to be there?
Thanks

Co.Doire

Hi, we too are suffering the same problems as a lot of you.

System is around 6years old.

In a neighbours house their pump crapped out twice. Constantly blowing the circuit breaker. This caused over flowing at the first tank in the system. I was told the original pump used was a 'drab' (I'm not sure how it's spelt, but that's how it's pronounced) 800w pump, which retail around £80 for the plastic one, or £400ish for a stainless steel one. These prices are from a local farm suppliers who are well renowned for low prices, not bord na mona prices.

... At short notice I couldn't get one of this brand from the farm suppliers, but got a 'draper' brand 750w, it's been in a few weeks now and seems to be grand so far. Price was £55+vat, plus a thread adapter for the outlet.
Obviously had to get a contractor to drain the tank before we jumped down to swap the pump. This service was around £100.


Now the issue with our own tank is that we may have missed a year or more of getting the first tank routinely pumped out.
This seems to have sodden the secondary big green filtration tank. Water now flows into the green tank, but only a trickle reaches the outlet to the river behind the house. Most of the water is actually seeping out the lid of the tank and creating a lovely smell.
We initially thought that pumping the first tank as normal would allow the secondary tank a week to dry itself... But it seems to be totally saturated.

Now, my question is similar to 'northwest8867's' question...

If we empty the secondary peat tank, the big green one, can we refill it with ordinary peat moss bales from the farm supply shop, or does it need to be some special material that bord na mona have engineered?

Also, is there any other material in there that needs to be replaced? Stones or gravel etc?

And what do you do with the material you remove?

Co.Doire

As and update to this, we decided to empty the peat fibre tank, since it was saturated. And dumped all of that fill.
We ran a hose direct into the stone layer at the bottom, and only a trickle came out the outlet.
It turned out the 4 outlet holes from the peat tank were blocked! Blocked up with silt. We jammed the hose in the outlets and then again from the stone layer, and this freed it up, water now flows freely out from the tank.

But still we needed new fill.
The stuff we removed was not like peat moss, it had larger pieces etc.
I contacted the Bord na mona salesman in the north, and he put me in contact with ANUA, who checked out records of install, and we're able to tell me I needed 1.25 bags of peat FIBRE , each bag is 1m x 1m x 1.5m, and weighs 450kg.

Price for this, plus a new filter mat (goes between the peat and the stone layer) is €160... Which isn't terrible. The issue is that it's in Kildare, and they won't deliver. So I may have to do a 6hr round drive for this :-(

Does anyone else know of a peat FIBRE supplier closer to the northwest???


Ps. If you need to renew the stones, it's 40mm crush, about a 100mm layer, making sure the outlet holes are surrounded in stone

km79

Co.Doire wrote: »

As and update to this, we decided to empty the peat fibre tank, since it was saturated. And dumped all of that fill.
We ran a hose direct into the stone layer at the bottom, and only a trickle came out the outlet.
It turned out the 4 outlet holes from the peat tank were blocked! Blocked up with silt. We jammed the hose in the outlets and then again from the stone layer, and this freed it up, water now flows freely out from the tank.

But still we needed new fill.
The stuff we removed was not like peat moss, it had larger pieces etc.
I contacted the Bord na mona salesman in the north, and he put me in contact with ANUA, who checked out records of install, and we're able to tell me I needed 1.25 bags of peat FIBRE , each bag is 1m x 1m x 1.5m, and weighs 450kg.

Price for this, plus a new filter mat (goes between the peat and the stone layer) is €160... Which isn't terrible. The issue is that it's in Kildare, and they won't deliver. So I may have to do a 6hr round drive for this :-(

Does anyone else know of a peat FIBRE supplier closer to the northwest???


Ps. If you need to renew the stones, it's 40mm crush, about a 100mm layer, making sure the outlet holes are surrounded in stone

Hi I've a feeling I may have to replace the peat in mine soon too
did a little check on it yesterday and there was water pooling on the surface.
now it may have been that I checked just after effluent had been pumped in but that's probably wishful thinking.
anyway I turned all the peat over with a fork and spade and the effluent percolatd down and out as it should . I'll be monitoring for a few days .
so I've a few questions ?
have you 2 chambers in the green tank ? and only needed 1.25 bags ? seems like too little for mine
how did you transport it and what did you do with the old stuff?

Smarttanks

Hi, I work with these systems and others like it, It is advisable to change the peat fiber every 7-10 years depending on usage (Amount of people in the house) as for your storage tank (concrete tank without pumps) we would recommend you empty every 18mths to 2years. This also depends on usage. If the water pools in your pods (Tanks with fiber peat) that is a sign that the fibers have soaked up all they can and need replaced.

The workings : Most systems use a form of aeration to treat the water in the tanks. and the out flow of water is then put through a percolation. With the puraflow system the first tank works like on old septic tank witch seperates solids from water. The water is then pumped to the pods. In the pods the peat fiber is what takes out the Bod's, Nitrate's And so on. (All the bad stuff you dont want in the ground) once the peat has soaked up all it can it needs replaced.

This can be seen as i have said by the pooling of water in the pods or the backing up of water due to pure saturation.

Crank Stain

Hi all,

A quick query, we had a puraflo system installed in a new build over the summer and its only been in use since September.

The pump is quite noisy at times and the smell can be quite bad too, there is only 4 of us in the house, 2 adults and 2 kids and we are at work/school most of the day so its not like the system is being overworked.

We couldn't have a bbq or sit outside when the pump start up, the smell would force us indoors.

Is it normal for puraflo systems to be noisy and smelly?

Thanks in advance.

Smarttanks

Hi

It defiantly not normal to have a lot of noise from a pump. You would usually hear a small humming noise from it or running water from its outlet when on but nothing other than that. Have you checked to see is pump blocked or something hindering its working state. A lot of times on new builds especially, contractors accidentally drop stuff into open drains or toilets and they end up in the tank/pump. As for the smell i would first advise on checking you stacks (vents on the sewage pipes). These should be above the guttering or in an area witch has good air flow so as to take the gasses (smells away)

Gimme Stitches

Following EPA test the engineer has recommended the puraflo system. Can anyone recommend them? As most of the comments on here seem to be negative.
What alternatives are available? Or is it just a matter of having a word with the engineer and getting his opinion as to why this is the recommended system.

Metric Tensor

There are a lot of systems for sale that "in theory" offer a similar level of treatment - albeit achieved by different means. Quite a few of these systems when tested don't necessarily treat the effluent as well as claimed. Mind you all such systems require maintenance and a lot of homeowners either don't know how or just don't bother. They are all pieces of machinery and need to be serviced regularly.

Our experience of the "Puraflo" system has been the opposite of most of the experiences here. In comparison to other systems they tend to have less moving parts (pretty much just one pump) and hence tend to have less mechanical failures. A lot of people don't know that you are supposed to replace the peat fibre from time to time. I can't recall the exact timescale.

It is worth noting though that Bord na Mona (aka Anua) have gotten out of the market and no longer produce or sell puraflos - a private operator has purchased the licence to continue producing/supplying the equipment. (You'll find them with google!) I have no experience of this operator yet so I cannot say how this will affect things.

On your other point - ask your engineer why he specified this particular system and he should have no problems telling you his reasons. Then you can make an informed choice. Has your planning permission been granted? If it has and specific reference is made to a Puraflo system you will not be in compliance if you put in any other type of system - you will need to contact the council to get a letter saying it is ok to put in a different type of system.

Gimme Stitches

No just getting the planning application together. Thanks for the info.

Metric Tensor

Also - ask for CE Certification for any system you decide to go with.

If it doesn't have CE Certification it shouldn't be for sale in Ireland.