Head gasket gone in rover 25

cleo1

Hi
Just found out the head gasket in my rover 25 has gone , have been ringing around and prices are in and around 800 - 1000. The car is 01 and only worth maybe 1200. I am not in a position to pay 800 - 1000 but need to get the car back on the road. Does anyone know a decent mechanic who'll do this cheaper, I am in North Dublin, thanks in advance!

L-M

Try a few local indy's, but AFAIK you won't get it a whole pile cheaper than that.

cleo1

thanks lmerick man, no one seems to want the job, aparantly its a very difficult job on the rovers. Have to get it sorted though.

pipsqueak

I have a 2001 rover 25, Head gasket went as well. Got a mechanic in mullingar to do it, 500 all in , If your interested i can give you his mobile, just pm me

Del2005

Not too sure if the 25 uses the K series engine, but they always blow the head gasket and even when fixed can't be trusted. They've a design flaw and nothing bar a new engine will fix it. I've a friend with a MGF off the road due to this.

cleo1

yes this is the second time i'm getting it done. Surely if it is a design flaw they should look into repairing it in future models.

Keith in cork

cleo1 wrote: »

yes this is the second time i'm getting it done. Surely if it is a design flaw they should look into repairing it in future models.

800! my god. people really do take the biscuit. Where in north dublin......

cleo1

i know, the part i need costs 32 euro, rest is labour. Im in artane, but will travel. pipsqueek, can you pm number, will go there if i have to. thanks

Keith in cork

cleo1 wrote: »

i know, the part i need costs 32 euro, rest is labour. Im in artane, but will travel. pipsqueek, can you pm number, will go there if i have to. thanks

Pipsqueek is bang on in pricing. mullingar is a long way to go. if you want it done in dublin, pm will be in your inbox shortly.

Its a common problem, i won't start ranting but i'd wash my hands of it.

cleo1

i'd love to get rid, but we're not in a position to, we'll just have to bite the bullet and get it done again.

Mycroft H

Del2005 wrote: »

Not too sure if the 25 uses the K series engine, but they always blow the head gasket and even when fixed can't be trusted. They've a design flaw and nothing bar a new engine will fix it. I've a friend with a MGF off the road due to this.

Get the facts right. The 1.4 k series was quite reliable. The k series was originally designed as a small engine >1.4 liter.


Its was when rover made it a 1.8 liter was when the problems started. The cooling system couldnt cope and thats why the head gasket frequently went on the 1.8 and gave the whole series a bad name.

That said they may go on the 1.4 as much as any other engine, but not a much as the 1.8

Keith in cork

cleo1 wrote: »

i'd love to get rid, but we're not in a position to, we'll just have to bite the bullet and get it done again.

Well for the 800, given the current climate, you'd pick up a decent motor, 99 upwards, with some test and maybe even some furry dice thrown in:D
I'm not sure on boards.ie's rules on replying with stuff for sale, so i'll go read the stickies and maybe get back to you.
Keith.

SV

800? That's taking the piss big time. Even if you have to have the head skimmed it shouldn't cost close to that. What a joke of a garage. 500 tops is all i'd pay.

Saab Ed

€800 buys alot of car theses days . Time to bin the Rover

Keith in cork

SV wrote: »

800? That's taking the piss big time. Even if you have to have the head skimmed it shouldn't cost close to that. What a joke of a garage. 500 tops is all i'd pay.

Yes, a gasket kit, skim and test will all come in around 400 to 600 notes. sometimes the engine size/setup makes it vary but 99% of the time 500.

Gary ITR

I just got a price on having my head skimmed, €50. Gasket and head bolts another €50. Doing the rest myself. Head is nearly out after less than an hours work.

Mailman

€500 job.
Whomever replaced head gasket the first time didn't do the job properly or else didn't diagnose what caused the head gasket to fail first time round.
No point in replacing the head gasket without checking if it is a simple fault with the coolant system that is causing the head to pop.

Keith in cork

Onkle wrote: »

I just got a price on having my head skimmed, €50. Gasket and head bolts another €50. Doing the rest myself. Head is nearly out after less than an hours work.

Yeh its cheap and "easy" when your mechanically mined, just most wouldn't be up to replacing the bolts in the right timing order.... the key to doing it without major failure.

Gary ITR

Keith in cork wrote: »

Yeh its cheap and "easy" when your mechanically mined, just most wouldn't be up to replacing the bolts in the right timing order.... the key to doing it without major failure.

Bolts? Order??
















:P:P

Keith in cork

my mistake, just fire them down any old way, selotape/bluetac around the block to seal up any gaps, cross the fingers and drive your heart out. lmao.

rocknchef

Hi cleo there is a indy I used when i lived in Dublin. he is across from the taxi rank at Nortside shopping centre (usally a couple of cars in the garden). he does all the work for the taxi men at the rank so he is good and his prices are fair. Dont have his number anymore but his name is Noel. if he is not at the side of the house working just knock at the door and ask the kids for his mobile number.

Bobo78

Jeysus 800 euro to replace a head gasket on Rover 25:eek:
I had mine replaced for 320 euro year and half ago on Rover 45.:D

cleo1

Bobo, was that in Dublin?

BJC

Saab Ed wrote: »

€800 buys alot of car theses days . Time to bin the Rover

+1

You'd be mad to put another cent into a twice failing rover.
Sell it for scrap and buy something else . In this current (dare I say it!?) "economic climate" you can pick up a far better car than the old 25 for well under a grand.

Mailman

BJC wrote: »

you can pick up a far better car than the old 25 for well under a grand.

I strongly disagree with this. Buying a car for under €1,000 is an absolute lottery. The OP has a car that they have a degree of confidence in from having used it for a period of time and now know where to get a HGF fixed for around €500.

rocknchef

€550 for this alloys an all

http://www.cbg.ie/Car_Detail.aspx?ID=2892059 :eek:

cleo1

TBH I've had the car from new, it has never given me trouble up to when the gasket went, its spotless, low mileage. The idea of selling an 01 car for scrap to me is a shame. Even if I were to repair it and sell it on, would the resale value be affected because the head gasket has gone?

Bobo78

cleo1 wrote: »

Bobo, was that in Dublin?

No actually it is in Limerick.
I paid 120 euro for the parts (oil, oil filter, coolant, head gasket kit and timing belt (not the hole kit only the belt)) and 200 for the labour.
This was in a garage in Limerick that is owned by an Ukranian lad so I guess that s why it was way cheaper then anywhere else.
But as far as I know he moved to Dublin some time ago, so maybe you can check it out there. I think he s garage is called NRG motors and I think you can find them on Carzone including their address and everything else.
While they were in Limerick the man that fixed my car said to me that they specialise in Rover and Land Rovers head gasket. And I d say they do cause anytime I would call in there I d see few Rovers that are having their gaskets replaced.

I guess that s true cause not many garages wanted to fix my Rover.


Actually I found them
http://www.nrgmotors.com

Anyway good luck and hope I help you with that.

Mr.Diagnostic

I would have to wonder if anyone posting on this thread knows anything about Rover K series engines.
One of the major factors in the cost of this job will be the parts. Depending on the history of the engine the parts price will vary to a large degree.
Head bolts for example, need to be measured to determine if they need to be replaced or not. Head bolts are expensive.
There is a modified oil rail which must be fitted if not previously done, also expensive.
There are a few choices of gasket available; the cheap ones do not work.
Steel dowels must be used, very cheap but also very important.
Full timing belt kit and water pump are a must also.
This is not a 2 hour job. The labour prices posted are ridiculous.

The mechanics who are afraid of doing this job just don’t know enough about them so best avoided anyway.

OP, if you get out for €800 you are doing well but I would not consider it worth doing unless the car is mint and otherwise in very good condition.

Mailman

I've read plenty about them, thanks very much.

Don't dare posting those opinions on mg-rover.org where the engineers who actually designed the engine and provided a long term fix that Phoenix Management wouldn't sign-off on would rip you to shreds.

Mr.Diagnostic

Mailman wrote: »

I've read plenty about them, thanks very much.

Don't dare posting those opinions on mg-rover.org where the engineers who actually designed the engine and provided a long term fix that Phoenix Management wouldn't sign-off on would rip you to shreds.

You may well have read plenty about them but have you fixed many of them? If so I hope you have fixed them properly.

Can you disagree that there is often a need to replace head bolts and that they are expensive?
Is there a modified oil rail that needs to be fitted to the earlier engines?
Do these need a full timing belt kit and is it expensive? Which tensioner is the quality one which does not fail al low mileages?
Do they need a water pump at the same time?
Which head gasket is of sufficient quality and is it the cheapest one available?
How many hours does it take to do this job?

All the above parts, plus oil, filter, coolant, machine shop, labour and vat is a lot more than €500.

Mailman

I have never replaced a K series Head Gasket and never intend to. It was part of the reason why I went for the KV6 engine instead.
The issue isn't the cost. 500 to 600 is the right price for the job. Getting a mechanic who knows the engine to do the job right is the problem
I've got the Haynes Manual and would do the head gasket myself before getting an inexperienced non-Rover mechanic to do the job but I wouldn't want to do the job myself.

If I did need to get a HG replaced on a K-series I'd insist on the bolts being changed even if mechanic told me not. They are designed to stretch and they're a throw away part. steel dowels are necessary too because the engine flexes side to side as much as it does up and down and then you need to look around the plumbing in the engine bay for a long long time to figure out where the coolant is leaking to fix the source of the problem long term.

Look at mg-rover.org for cost of job and it's possible to get it done for 400 to 500 sterling properly with the parts you mention but you seem to think that Irish Mechanics are worth more than British mechanics.

http://forums.mg-rover.org/showpost.php?p=3076710&postcount=7

A land rover freelander mechanic is yer only man as they can do head gaskets in their sleep due to much practice.

Mycroft H

Mailman wrote: »

I have never replaced a K series Head Gasket and never intend to. It was part of the reason why I went for the KV6 engine instead.
The issue isn't the cost. 500 to 600 is the right price for the job. Getting a mechanic who knows the engine to do the job right is the problem
I've got the Haynes Manual and would do the head gasket myself before getting an inexperienced non-Rover mechanic to do the job but I wouldn't want to do the job myself.

If I did need to get a HG replaced on a K-series I'd insist on the bolts being changed even if mechanic told me not. They are designed to stretch and they're a throw away part. steel dowels are necessary too because the engine flexes side to side as much as it does up and down and then you need to look around the plumbing in the engine bay for a long long time to figure out where the coolant is leaking to fix the source of the problem long term.

Look at mg-rover.org for cost of job and it's possible to get it done for 400 to 500 sterling properly with the parts you mention but you seem to think that Irish Mechanics are worth more than British mechanics.

http://forums.mg-rover.org/showpost.php?p=3076710&postcount=7

A land rover freelander mechanic is yer only man as they can do head gaskets in their sleep due to much practice.

Yes the 1.8's are a crock of shyte..... Td4 is a much better engine (namely as its a beamer engine)

Mailman

nothing wrong with the K-series; it was designed to go in to Rover 200 sized cars and wasn't up to an increase in displacement and move from solid block to wet liner design. It should never have found it's way in to the R75 or Freelander.

Mr.Diagnostic

Mailman wrote: »

I have never replaced a K series Head Gasket and never intend to. It was part of the reason why I went for the KV6 engine instead.
The issue isn't the cost. 500 to 600 is the right price for the job. Getting a mechanic who knows the engine to do the job right is the problem
I've got the Haynes Manual and would do the head gasket myself before getting an inexperienced non-Rover mechanic to do the job but I wouldn't want to do the job myself.

If I did need to get a HG replaced on a K-series I'd insist on the bolts being changed even if mechanic told me not. They are designed to stretch and they're a throw away part. steel dowels are necessary too because the engine flexes side to side as much as it does up and down and then you need to look around the plumbing in the engine bay for a long long time to figure out where the coolant is leaking to fix the source of the problem long term.

Look at mg-rover.org for cost of job and it's possible to get it done for 400 to 500 sterling properly with the parts you mention but you seem to think that Irish Mechanics are worth more than British mechanics.

http://forums.mg-rover.org/showpost.php?p=3076710&postcount=7

A land rover freelander mechanic is yer only man as they can do head gaskets in their sleep due to much practice.

Pure waffle…………

You have no experience of the job. Your prices are based on UK prices which are way lower than irish prices.
I never said Irish mechanics were worth more than UK ones, but they do cost more and as this is an Irish forum that is the level of cost we are discussing.

You say it possible to get it done properly with the parts I mentioned but you have failed to price those parts. Price the parts and labour at Irish levels and see how it turns out.

Lets try and help the Op here.
Its possible to get this job done properly, but not for 2 or 3 hundred euros. That’s the point I made.
Now I know its vital that you try and demonstrate your superior knowledge of k series engines to all and sundry but that does not help the OP. Yes he can get a cheap job done but will it last, ie will be value for him? Would he be better to either pay the correct price for a good job or scrap the car? Paying a good lump of money for a cheap job which does not last would be a false economy. There is no such thing as a good cheap head job on a k series.

There are very few people who know much about the k series engine. That is true on this thread as well as in general life. This I believe is where we started.

Mailman

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

Pure waffle…………

I post a link to a thread referring to everything you mention and your retort is "pure waffle".

Your argument essentially boils down to Irish mechanics charge more because "They're worth it".
An experienced mechanic in the UK is charging £420.

I've helped the OP more than you did before you ever happend upon the thread and saw it as an opportunity to display boundless knowledge. You need to bolster your ego as a highly trained auto technician and it seems here Mechanics are perfectly entitled to ride the customer for a relatively straight-forward head gasket replacement.
Now, if the engine is cooked and the cylinder liners have dropped then the engine is fooked and it's straight to the scrapper it goes.
Why haven't you mentioned that.

All the parts for this job can be purchased on ebay.co.uk or from the likes of rimmer bros quite cheaply.

Mr.Diagnostic

Mailman wrote: »

Your argument essentially boils down to Irish mechanics charge more because "They're worth it".

Thats twice you have posted that but i never said that.
I never said it because i dont believe it to be true.

Read my first post again.



Omnipotence thanks for the compliment.............

Mailman

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

Thats twice you have posted that but i never said that.
I never said it because i dont believe it to be true.

Read my first post again.



Omnipotence thanks for the compliment.............

Note that I edited post before you replied because you aren't worthy of the compliment. You believe Irish mechanics deserve to charge more so for you it goes without saying.

When you hire a competent mechanic you expect them to be able to source the parts they need for the job without going to Caterpillar/X-Part to be ripped off and you expect them to be able to do the job in the manufacturer's set time which means a €500 charge is entirely reasonable.

I'm sick of Irish Trades people thinking they can throw out any price and expecting the customer to bend over and take it.

Mr.Diagnostic

Mailman wrote: »

You believe Irish mechanics deserve to charge more so for you it goes without saying.

Thats three times now. It does not matter how many times you post it, i still never said it or agree with it. You are argueing with yourself on this one.

Mailman wrote: »

I'm sick of Irish Trades people thinking they can throw out any price and expecting the customer to bend over and take it.

Ahh, so the truth outs. You have an axe to grind that has nothing to do with the topic.

Argue away among yourself

Mailman

I have a well argued position with supporting evidence. Quotes of in excess of 800 euro from Independent mechanics are outrageous and it's as simple as that.

Bobo78

When the mechanic replaced the head gasket on my Rover 45 he replaced the hole head gasket kit including replacing the plastic dowels with steel ones and replacing the bolts with new ones.
He as well replaced the timing belt (just the belt).
The hole price list of the parts was down to 120 euros. And the labor was 200.
So the hole job cost me 320 euro and that was back in 2007 and now with more then 20 k miles done after the job, the car is still going perfectly and there is no sign of another head gasket failure.

OP - I d really recommend you to try and contact that garage and see what they tell you about your Rover.
Because I had my head gasket replaced at that garage at very cheap price and I am very happy with the job because the car is still going strong and there is no sign of another gasket failure nearly 2 years after.
So what I think is, is that there is a way of cheap fix of rover head gasket and it doesn't have to cost 1000 euro for the job to be done properly.

L1011

cleo1 wrote: »

yes this is the second time i'm getting it done. Surely if it is a design flaw they should look into repairing it in future models.

Powertrain Ltd ceased to exist in 2005; it'll be a bit hard for them to fix it in future models!

Mr.Diagnostic

Bobo78 wrote: »

When the mechanic replaced the head gasket on my Rover 45 he replaced the hole head gasket kit including replacing the plastic dowels with steel ones and replacing the bolts with new ones.
He as well replaced the timing belt (just the belt).
The hole price list of the parts was down to 120 euros. And the labor was 200.
So the hole job cost me 320 euro and that was back in 2007 and now with more then 20 k miles done after the job, the car is still going perfectly and there is no sign of another head gasket failure.

€200 labour, inc vat I assume, to do how many hours?
There is no way a legitimate garage could work that cheap. You are talking about black economy type of charges here.

No oil or filter, no coolant, no water pump, no tensioner fitted. That’s not what I would call a proper job.

Mycroft H

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

€200 labour, inc vat I assume, to do how many hours?
There is no way a legitimate garage could work that cheap. You are talking about black economy type of charges here.

No oil or filter, no coolant, no water pump, no tensioner fitted. That’s not what I would call a proper job.

Are you just out to contradict everyone on this thread, just as you have some 'insider' knowledge?


Its a given that you change the oil and the coolant when a gasket goes, cant imagine otherwise. 320 is a cheap price for the job and if its still working after 20k miles, i wouldnt be complaining

cleo1

ok guys, going to bring it to my local very honest garage (they wont repair it though)tomorrow and they'll give me the heads up on the extent of disrepair. Then i'll ring around and get a price based on that. I'll post again when I find out full extent and see what you think because my knowledge of all this is minimal! (female) Thanks for all the input so far.

Bobo78

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

€200 labour, inc vat I assume, to do how many hours?
There is no way a legitimate garage could work that cheap. You are talking about black economy type of charges here.

No oil or filter, no coolant, no water pump, no tensioner fitted. That’s not what I would call a proper job.

Whether it is or it isn't black economy I don't really care because all I wanted is to get my car fixed as cheap as it can be and by the looks of it I did, because nearly 2 years later and more then 20 k miles my car, the car is still going perfectly without any sign of another hgf. So I m more than happy with that.

They were one of few garages who wanted to fix my car while the Main Dealer was looking for 1600 euro to do similar job. And this is a big difference in price for the same outcome.

And to let you know they did change the oil, oil filter, coolant, hole head gasket kit including replacing plastic dowels with steel dowels and new head bolts.
And I left my car to the garage for one hole day to get the job done.
So whether it took them 5 hours or 2 hours I don't care as I got my car fixed.
+ if you check their website you ll see that they have fixed prices for the jobs such as head gasket replacement, swapping the engine and other similar jobs.;)

Mr.Diagnostic

landyman wrote: »

Are you just out to contradict everyone on this thread, just as you have some 'insider' knowledge?

No, I am merely expressing an opinion. This is a forum after all.

Insider knowledge? No idea what you are talking about but yes, I would have some knowledge on this subject.

Bobo78 wrote: »

Whether it is or it isn't black economy I don't really care

I think the country has enough problems as it is without being further driven down by shady operators like this.

You are comparing the prices between a legitimate garage and a black market garage. This country and quite a few of its citizens would care about the black market. We have enough problems without this kind of carry on.
I run a garage and pay overheads such as insurance etc. There is no way a legitimate garage could do this job at this price because of the cost to do business.

Bobo78 wrote: »

And to let you know they did change the oil, oil filter, coolant, hole head gasket kit including replacing plastic dowels with steel dowels and new head bolts.

All that for €120! I doubt it.
Maybe that’s what they claimed but the figures simply don’t add up.

I really think that if it lasted 20k so far you are just lucky. If you had a problem you might have discovered the difference between a black market operation and a real garage.

Bobo78

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

No, I am merely expressing an opinion. This is a forum after all.

Insider knowledge? No idea what you are talking about but yes, I would have some knowledge on this subject.






I think the country has enough problems as it is without being further driven down by shady operators like this.

You are comparing the prices between a legitimate garage and a black market garage. This country and quite a few of its citizens would care about the black market. We have enough problems without this kind of carry on.
I run a garage and pay overheads such as insurance etc. There is no way a legitimate garage could do this job at this price because of the cost to do business.





All that for €120! I doubt it.
Maybe that’s what they claimed but the figures simply don’t add up.

I really think that if it lasted 20k so far you are just lucky. If you had a problem you might have discovered the difference between a black market operation and a real garage.

Ok here it is, I really don't know how they run their garage but they are still running it and it has even expanded in Dublin too as far as I know.

As regards to the price of the parts, it is correct cause that's how much I paid for it. They are not fools to change parts on my car without charging for it.
And I know for a fact that they changed all the parts that I named previously. If you don't believe me it s ok your allowed to make your own opinion. But I know what really happened.

I didn't came here to advertise anyone,and I don't want to get in to argument with anyone, I only wanted to try to help OP with his problem.

Keith in cork

My apologies. unneeded, harsh post.

apologies again.


Regards,
Keith.

Darragh29

Mailman wrote: »

I have a well argued position with supporting evidence. Quotes of in excess of 800 euro from Independent mechanics are outrageous and it's as simple as that.

Can you give a breakdown of costs for labour, parts and VAT, to stand over your claim that 800 Euro is an outrageous price for this job in this jurisdiction. What labour rate are you suggesting and how many hours labour should be charged??? Also, how much is the head set, replacement cylinder head bolts, head skim and pressure test, engine service components, engine oil, etc?

I've no problem with you stating that 800 Euro is outrageous, once of course that you can stand over that statement, by showing us how you can do it for half the price or in any event, substantially less than the 800 Euro which you claim is outrageous...

Mailman

Darragh, I don't have time for this. Did you read the post I linked to?
They even went to his location and did the job rather than him going to them.

Go to ebay and you'll find UK mechanics who do the enitre job for 450 sterling all in buy-it-now. In the UK if you want it done cheaper you can buy the parts yourself, get the head shimmed and do it yourself.
Go to ebay and you'll find the price of the parts in the UK and they'll post to Ireland. Only difference in price being postage to Ireland.
If you don't want to go to the ebay go to rimmerbros.co.uk who I can personally recommend to get the parts at discount in the UK posted to Ireland.
So that's the parts taken care of for maybe 20 quid more extra postage to Ireland over and above what they'd cost in the UK.

That leaves just labour. You can argue why Irish labour rates should be so much higher than UK rates.