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Camp Quest - Atheist camp?

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    #32
    Goduznt Xzst
    Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Goduznt Xzst


    ChocolateSauce wrote: »
    Huh? I thought you were PDN for a second there! No, he was a fanatic who was an atheist.

    WHAAA!!! :eek: you've just shattered my ideological bubble. I only turned to Atheism because I thought I'd be in the same gang as the great forward thinkers such as Stalin, Mao Zedong and Pol Pot.

    I was thinking about sending any future children of mine to this camp but if they aren't going to teach them that abortions are awesome, eugenics is hip and marxist and communist dogma is what all the cool kids read about on their kindles then I think I'll give it a miss. This isn't the Atheism that I signed up for.


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    #33
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    ChocolateSauce wrote: »
    Even if they are, it seems a lot less sinister than many places in the middle east where they train armies of young people to bomb the sh!t out of people.
    Muslim fanatics blow people up.
    Christian fanatics murder abortion doctors.
    Atheist "fanatics" write books.

    Just because it is less bad does not mean it is good!!

    If there are no non-religous camps available to parents of agnostics/atheists, then good on them for organising camps where religon is not an issue. If, however, there are non-religous camps avaialable, and this is a camp specifically for atheists/agnostics, then that seems to me to be entirely counterproductive. If God doesnt exist, why define your 'camp' with reference to God at all......?


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    #34
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    drkpower wrote: »
    Just because it is less bad does not mean it is good!!

    If there are no non-religous camps available to parents of agnostics/atheists, then good on them for organising camps where religon is not an issue. If, however, there are non-religous camps avaialable, and this is a camp specifically for atheists/agnostics, then that seems to me to be entirely counterproductive. If God doesnt exist, why define your 'camp' with reference to God at all......?

    I was speaking hypothetically....they really aren't. :pac: But yes, I agree with you that if they were it wouldn't be good. The camps are not for atheist/agnostics; they accept anyone and the emphasis is on critical thought, not theology.


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    #35
    Goduznt Xzst
    Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Goduznt Xzst


    drkpower wrote: »
    If God doesnt exist, why define your 'camp' with reference to God at all......?

    Ideally we shouldn't have to but Religion is still prevalent enough that I can see why many parents would view it more as protecting them against having the religious guff from the indoctrinated children they will encounter in school.

    Teaching a child the reasoning senses to deal with the evangelical Christians is no different in my mind to teaching them to look both ways when crossing the road.


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    #36
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    Goduznt Xzst wrote: »
    Ideally we shouldn't have to but Religion is still prevalent enough that I can see why many parents would view it more as protecting them against having the religious guff from the indoctrinated children they will encounter in school.

    Teaching a child the reasoning senses to deal with the evangelical Christians is no different in my mind to teaching them to look both ways when crossing the road.

    No; teach them the reasoning senses to deal with every issue; stop framing everything by reference to religon. This is the problem with many atheists - everything they do is framed by religon; just ignore it.


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    #37
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    drkpower wrote: »
    No; teach them the reasoning senses to deal with every issue; stop framing everything by reference to religon. This is the problem with many atheists - everything they do is framed by religon; just ignore it.

    It is hard to ignore it when it is institutionalised, and also when people make decisions based not on reason but on the teachings of bronze age barbarians, especially when these people are the leaders of countries.


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    #38
    Goduznt Xzst
    Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Goduznt Xzst


    drkpower wrote: »
    just ignore it.

    Good luck with that. I can see where you are coming from though, ignoring a problem always resolves it.


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    #39
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    ChocolateSauce wrote: »
    It is hard to ignore it when it is institutionalised, and also when people make decisions based not on reason but on the teachings of bronze age barbarians, especially when these people are the leaders of countries.

    Very true; but we are talking about summer camps here.


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    #40
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    Goduznt Xzst wrote: »
    Good luck with that. I can see where you are coming from though, ignoring a problem always resolves it.

    Isnt ignoring God/religon what athesim is about? If you dont believe in something, why pay it any attention?

    And people ignoring religon in the past 20 years (coupled with religon's own faux pas') has caused an unprecedented dimunition in its influence. Ignoring it works. And it will continuie to work.

    Confronting it will create a monster. Ignoring it will cause it to wither. Religon is a bit like an internet troll, in that way.


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    #41
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    drkpower wrote: »
    Very true; but we are talking about summer camps here.

    Oh. Well in that case I would say mention it, but don't go into it.


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    #42
    Goduznt Xzst
    Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Goduznt Xzst


    drkpower wrote: »
    Isnt ignoring God/religon what athesim is about?

    You ignore the religion, but confront the religious. There is a difference.


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    #43
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users Posts: 8,972 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    What's this camp position on Santa, I wonder? Does the god of capitalism exist?


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    #44
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    drkpower wrote: »
    Isnt ignoring God/religon what athesim is about? If you dont believe in something, why pay it any attention?

    And people ignoring religon in the past 20 years (coupled with religon's own faux pas') has caused an unprecedented dimunition in its influence. Ignoring it works. And it will continuie to work.

    Confronting it will create a monster. Ignoring it will cause it to wither. Religon is a bit like an internet troll, in that way.

    How exactly do you explain that to a child of 8? People may have been ignoring religion for the last 20 years, but its still in schools and it still influences politics. How do you explain to a child that has to spend 2 or 3 hours a week in religion class that they should ignore it if they dont believe it? If you dont believe in a religion ignore it? Should the child apply that to everything? What about the other subjects they do? Should they ignore maths or science or english too?
    Is it not better to give kids the tools to examine all claims made to them and have them not afraid to confront other ideas?


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    #45
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    How exactly do you explain that to a child of 8? People may have been ignoring religion for the last 20 years, but its still in schools and it still influences politics. How do you explain to a child that has to spend 2 or 3 hours a week in religion class that they should ignore it if they dont believe it? If you dont believe in a religion ignore it? Should the child apply that to everything? What about the other subjects they do? Should they ignore maths or science or english too?
    Is it not better to give kids the tools to examine all claims made to them and have them not afraid to confront other ideas?

    This thread is about 'camps', yes....?
    If you want to talk about schools, thats a different issue; naturally, my 'ignore the Church' principle would mean that we shouldnt have education provided by religous Orders (or by organised atheists either...).


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    #46
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    TBH, I'm a bit creeped out with the way this whole Project Atheist thing has been going, of late.


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    #47
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    TBH, I'm a bit creeped out with the way this whole Project Atheist thing has been going, of late.
    How so?


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    #48
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Rev Hellfire wrote: »
    How so?

    It seems to be becoming the very thing it ridicules.


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    #49
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    It seems to be becoming the very thing it ridicules.

    Religion? There are many things that can superficially resemble religion, like fan clubs, it doesn't mean there is really a deep similarity.


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    #50
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    It seems to be becoming the very thing it ridicules.

    It ridicules untestable beliefs in the supernatural that are used as justification for moral authority .. ?

    I don't think atheists, in general, ridicule summer camps. :pac:


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    #51
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    You know what I mean. It's just this whole Dawkins-esque pseudo-religious crap that bothers me. It's just another form of fundamentalism.

    I have begun to stray from the flock!

    :)


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    #52
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    You know what I mean. It's just this whole Dawkins-esque pseudo-religious crap that bothers me. It's just another form of fundamentalism.

    I have begun to stray from the flock!

    :)

    :eek:

    Ah well, that's your prerogative!

    Anyway, it seems to me more a case of fight fire with fire.


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    #53
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    You know what I mean. It's just this whole Dawkins-esque pseudo-religious crap that bothers me. It's just another form of fundamentalism.

    WHat do you consider to be "pseudo-religious crap" about Camp Quest?

    To be honest it sounds like a class in critical thinking, skills that apply far beyond the issue of is there a god.


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    #54
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Think they're about to talk about this on the Mooney show (or whatever) on RTÉ1

    Just overheard it mentioned in the intro

    He's way too annoying to listen to, so I shalln't be, but for the masochists among you :)


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    #55
    Húrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭Húrin


    Goduznt Xzst wrote: »
    You ignore the religion, but confront the religious. There is a difference.

    Atheism isn't about confronting the religious, or so I thought until I found that most atheists think that everyone else should (dis)believe the things that they do.


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    #56
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Húrin wrote: »
    Atheism isn't about confronting the religious, or so I thought until I found that most atheists think that everyone else should (dis)believe the things that they do.

    It would be for the best.


    Take the red pill, I dare you.


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