Wind turbine water immersion set up

niceirishfella

Hi,

Seriously thinking of a wind turbine water immersion set up for my house.

He's the set up -

Looking to set up a monopole out in the back garden to fit the wind turbine to.
From there, I can run cable into my shed to charge batteries (23 metres run)
From the shed, run a cable into my house and to the immersion cylinder in the hotpress to the immersion element (25 metre run)

Questions-

1)Are my cable runs too long?
2)What type of windturbine to invest in?
3)What kind of regulator/batterpack set up to go for?
4) any other thoughts?

Thanks, I'm @ early stages but quite serious about it.

Thanks,NIF

De_man

niceirishfella wrote: »

Hi,

From there, I can run cable into my shed to charge batteries (23 metres run)
From the shed, run a cable into my house and to the immersion cylinder in the hotpress to the immersion element (25 metre run)

3)What kind of regulator/batterpack set up to go for?

why use a battery pack at all? why not feed into grid?
.
depending on your site, to make it justifiable you're talking about spending anywhere
between 12-15K have a look at Quentins & Doctor Ls et al posts on the subject

quentingargan

De_man wrote: »

why use a battery pack at all? why not feed into grid?
.
depending on your site, to make it justifiable you're talking about spending anywhere
between 12-15K have a look at Quentins & Doctor Ls et al posts on the subject

Agree here. I've been running forklift batteries and heat dumps because six years ago there wasn't a hope of getting a feed-in tariff. I certainly wouldn't do that now, but I do get enquiries from householders with a more apocalyptic world view who don't believe the grid will be there for them in the future.

Personally I think if things get that bad, having no TV will be the least of my problems, but if you want a small backup for such situations, you could have a stack of batteries and a UPS, and still be grid connected.
Otherwise, on a good windy night, you will end up dumping a lot of power as heat which you could have profitably exported to the grid.

I use the Aurora inverter for grid tied wind systems, but I believe SMA have an island grid inverter which can handle both batteries and grid connection.

If you are using low voltages for batteries, you need to keep your distances as low as possible, and maybe try to go for at least 48V. My 70m cable run for a 2.5Kw 24V system is 3X75mm, and at that we have power loss of about 10% at peak power.

If your cable run is 23m plus say 10m for the tower, a 3X10mm cable will give you losses of about 8% on a 2.5kw 48V turbine. If you go to 24V, then you need 35mm cable to keep the power loss below 10%.

niceirishfella

Hi,

Thanks for the replies. Ok, Batteries are out of the equation so - thankfully.
I'm not seeking to be self suffiencent in any way or to export power either.
All I want to do is heat my water tank in the hot press....Am I mad or what?
More thoughts?

quentingargan

niceirishfella wrote: »

Hi,

Thanks for the replies. Ok, Batteries are out of the equation so - thankfully.
I'm not seeking to be self suffiencent in any way or to export power either.
All I want to do is heat my water tank in the hot press....Am I mad or what?
More thoughts?

There are cheaper ways to heat water. Electricity is a premium priced source of energy because it takes about 3kw of oil or gas to generate and deliver 1kw of electricity. Oil, gas, solar etc., are all cheaper ways to heat water.

If you go to the expense of getting a turbine which can produce electricity, it makes more finanical sense to use that as electricity. The grid tie inverter is about 1/5th of the total project cost, but more than doubles the value of the energy produced by the turbine....

Also, wind may produce a lot more hot water than you want sometimes, and very little at other times. So you may end up wasting a lot of energy by having more hot water than you want or need.

Doctor_L

Hi,

You can get 1.8m diameter water heating solutions that use 12/24 volt heating elements. They are cheap and cheerfull and heat the water only.

There is a company in Roscrea supplying them for 1500 Euros. I do have however concerns about their literature and cost saving claims i.e. they are not justifiable.

These turbines are typically 0.5 kw to 1 kw systems. If you have lime in your water the heating elements will need replacing more frequently.

Regards

Liam

niceirishfella

Hi Quentin,

Thaks for that. Good point. Can I ask If I were to install a turbine and a export it, whats the typical costs of getting a new in/out meter?
Does it have to be done by the ESB? Is there set install costs?

Doctor L, thanks too for your input. What do you mean by 1.8m diameter water heating solutions - is that a cyliner? or Element? and could you pm me the details of the name of the co in Roscrea please? I'd like to research what they do.
Re; lime, i'm ok that way - I have a softner thanksfully.
Thanks,
NIF

gears

niceirishfella wrote: »

Hi Quentin,

Thaks for that. Good point. Can I ask If I were to install a turbine and a export it, whats the typical costs of getting a new in/out meter?
Does it have to be done by the ESB? Is there set install costs?

AFAIK the ESB will install a new "2 way meter" free of charge for the first 4000 to install a source of micro electricty generation (wind, hydro, pv...) and those first 4000 also get the 10c per kW premuim for the first 3000kW they generate.

bladespin

gears wrote: »

AFAIK the ESB will install a new "2 way meter" free of charge for the first 4000 to install a source of micro electricty generation (wind, hydro, pv...) and those first 4000 also get the 10c per kW premuim for the first 3000kW they generate.

Absolutely correct, they seem to even be hiring extra manpower for this purpose too.

Warden Dios

If its the same company in Roscrea i've seen I would be a bit weary. Their website state that the average wind speed in Ireland is 9 m/s.
Get a Solar Water collector for a fraction of the price. I got a 200L cylinder of hot water today at 60deg. C.

niceirishfella

Thanks for that.
Can someone Pm me the web details of the co in Roscrea.
I've tried to google them, but to no avail.

quentingargan

niceirishfella wrote: »

Thanks for that.
Can someone Pm me the web details of the co in Roscrea.
I've tried to google them, but to no avail.

I just got their leaflet passed to me, but since you're a nice fella, I wouldn't really like to pass on their name. I'm usually fairly ecumenical about different brands of turbines, but I have no time for someone who claims to have a payback time of 1 to 2 years heating water using a wind turbine. Unless oil goes to $2,000 a barrell...

Q

Fingallion

'AFAIK the ESB will install a new "2 way meter" free of charge for the first 4000 to install a source of micro electricty generation (wind, hydro, pv...) and those first 4000 also get the 10c per kW premuim for the first 3000kW they generate.'

Wouldn't this just amount to 300 Euros? Or is the scheme continued at a lower rate? Mastervolt have some plugin inverters for wind and solar that would facilitate this type of installation easily although, with solar you would be unlikely to be backfeeding the grid unless you had a very expensive array.

Murphyphoto

quentingargan wrote: »

I just got their leaflet passed to me, but since you're a nice fella, I wouldn't really like to pass on their name. I'm usually fairly ecumenical about different brands of turbines, but I have no time for someone who claims to have a payback time of 1 to 2 years heating water using a wind turbine. Unless oil goes to $2,000 a barrell...

Q

I actually bought one from that company in Roscrea to use to supplement my heating system and although i had a few problems at the start it is up an running now 4 months and it works i reckon i have saved at least 250 on my oil bill I just use it to keep my water at a constant temp and when the oil burner kicks in to heat the radiators the burn time is shorter so i use less oil because the water is already close to the required temperature. One of my friends is considering using it in his business to replace the emersion system.

Doctor_L

Hi,

I did some analysis using RETSCREEN on the wizzmill. My calculations put the payback at 16.5 years for a site that has 6.5 m/s at 50 meters.


Asuumptions.

Cost 1950 + 400 for 6 metre pole and connection to hot water tank.
Total price 2350 euros.
Hub height 6 meters.
Wind speed 6.5 at 50 meters, this equates to 4.5 at 6 meters

Array losses % 2.0%
Airfoil losses % 2.0%
Miscellaneous losses % 2.0%
Availability % 97.0
Wind shear exponent 0.17
Electricity priced at 16 cent per unit

Fuel cost escalation rate % 5.5%
Inflation rate % 2.5%
Discount rate %
Project life yr 20


Pay back is 16.5 years.

In order to achieve a payback of 3 years as the website claims I would need the following wind speed.

50 meters 12.3 m/s
at 6 meters 8.6 m/s

This would mean that the turbine would have a capacity factor of 88% which is unheard off, modern large wind turbines such as the 90 meter tall variety have capacity factors between 20 and 40 %.

In my estimation the wizzmill has a capacity factor of 16%

There are very few locations in Ireland that have wind speeds of 12.3 m/s at 50 meters.

Turbines with 88% capacity do not exist.

http://www.irishsilicon.com/2009/06/wizzmill-are-rating-their-turb.html

Cheeble

Murphyphoto wrote: »

I've saved at least 250....

You've saved 250 what exactly?

That's at least the third 1 in the last three days. I wonder if there will be another tomorrow.

Cheeble-eers

gman2k

Reading some of the blurb on the wizzmill site...
AVERAGE WIND SPEED IN IRELAND IS 9.3 - 14.16m/s
Seems to be at odds with this
Also, they make out that it's OK to locate... 'On your house, in your garden, on a shed, beside the boiler outside'.
Do the ASAI get involved with internet marketing?

Murphyphoto

gman2k wrote: »

Reading some of the blurb on the wizzmill site...
AVERAGE WIND SPEED IN IRELAND IS 9.3 - 14.16m/s
Seems to be at odds with this
Also, they make out that it's OK to locate... 'On your house, in your garden, on a shed, beside the boiler outside'.
Do the ASAI get involved with internet marketing?

Mine is in my back garden up an 8m pole i checked with the local planning auth and they said "as long as it was not higher than 10m and if it was to fall over it would not cross my boundaries it was ok" a cable then runs into a buffer tank that is beside my boiler in my garage. I dont know about strapping it to a house or a shed maybe it might be ok if it was taken into account at the planning stage of the house so the structure could be built to support it but fitting it to a shed seems highly unlikely unless you wanted it to keep your turf dry . anyways im happy with mine maybe someone else who has one can post their experience with it here.

bladespin

gman2k wrote: »

Reading some of the blurb on the wizzmill site...
AVERAGE WIND SPEED IN IRELAND IS 9.3 - 14.16m/s
Seems to be at odds with this
Also, they make out that it's OK to locate... 'On your house, in your garden, on a shed, beside the boiler outside'.
Do the ASAI get involved with internet marketing?

Average windspeed in Ireland would be around 7 - 8 m/s if you measure it at 100m high, down here on planet earth it's closer to 5m/s.

I'm afraid this is typical of the misleading information being spread about these days.

Murphyphoto

hey gmak the ASAI do get involved in internet marketing provided the company advertising on the site are irish.

Murphyphoto

The wind at a particular location can be influenced by a number of factors such as obstruction by buildings or trees, the nature of the terrain and deflection by nearby mountains or hills. For example, the rather low frequency of southerly winds at Dublin Airport is due to the sheltering effect of the mountains to the south. The prevailing wind direction is between south and west. Average annual wind speeds range from 7 m.p.h. in parts of south Leinster to over 18 m.p.h. in the extreme north. On average there are less than 2 days with gales each year at some inland places like Kilkenny but more than 50 a year at northern coastal locations such as Malin Head. Indeed the north and west coasts of Ireland are two of the windiest areas in Europe and have considerable potential for the generation of wind energy.

Gar81

I'm not sure about the wizzmill either, They claim:

7m/s-9m/s = 42volts = 589watts
9m/s-14m/s = 58volts = 1141watts
16m/s-18m/s = 83volts = 2315watts

1m/s is 2.24 miles per hour

My understanding of elements is they are rated for a certain voltage and a certain KW rating. they are saying that with different wind speeds you get higher voltages and more KW's. Can an element handle voltages going up and down, or do you need to regulate the voltage to say 48v.

Gale

Dr L. I'm sure that all stacks up, but i wont ever understand it, in your opinion, if i have one of these say 8 metres high about 6 metres from my house on the southern side, its a windy site on a flat plane. Could you see me heating say 100 litres of water hot enough for a bath?

Cheeble

"Gale",

Of course it will. However, if you want to bathe more than once a year I'd spend your money on something sensible instead.

Cheeble-eers

Gale

i take umbarage at that cheebies, i'll have you know i bathe every week, wash out the old box and pits,.... but that is of the point.

On the west coast where i live we have decent wind a lot of the time, and if this thing wipes out my immersion heater i want it,

will it last, what kind o guarantee do i get?

Joey the lips

Hi Folks following this thread with great interest as its something I am equally interested in. I had already a couple of views in the subject with seems to be in line with the subject,

My feelings are this!

1. Wind power and the advantages of home generation are not being taken seriously by the ESB or the Goverment at the moment. There needs to be a cordinated lobby to address this! Where to start? Maybe it already has.

2. I think the best solution is to sell th power back to the grid.. End of story! I hear a few people saying that they want to use it to heat water! This is a waste! People generally use there heating in the winter when winds will be strongest so the heating coil in the cylinder is already heating the water! In the summer I dont judge this as economical as 1 hour of heat a day heats enough water for 2 adults and 2 children.

3.Like the 2 boxes outside your house the ESB/Gas should own the appratas, initially! They can pay you a discounted premium for the energy or pay you full price and allow you a long term payment scinario.

4. I have a few more views but you catch my jist, ie its far to dear to go as a home owner now! IMO Considering it will add to irelands carbon credits most likely stimulate jobs in turbine production and fitting it makes sense to me!

5. We need a dedicated map of wind speeds. There is a surefire way of doing this. An instrament can be placed at everyones house that takes up the scheme this feeds live data by phone line to a central source allowing it to be compiled into specific areas. This gives the govt a monitor if an area is underperforming for a period, say 3 years the turbine can be moved! It will all be live automated data so will be easy to view!

6. Planning for a certain size turbine should be free of charge to apply for in fact the state architects should be involved to ensure its in the best interest. Or to make it more transparent the planning fees should be refundable after a period of 1 year operation.

However although I am embracing the idea at the moment! I see an additional 1-2k in cost between planning and installing these correctly, not to mention maintenance if it takes 15 years payback at the moment. I just think at the moment we are not taking these technologies seriously.

Gale

People generally use there heating in the winter when winds will be strongest so the heating coil in the cylinder is already heating the water! says joey the lips??

Joey you say this as if it free to heat the coil, and putting the immersion on for an hour a day is maybe no big deal to you, but it is costing me what 10 - 20 euro a week?

Gale

the water heating idea makes sense to me because instead of storing energy in an expensive battery the energy from a nights wind is stored in your hot water cylinder for maybe a day or 2 hopefully iuntill the next significant wind, am i right or am i right, even though i know little of the techy

Joey the lips

Gale wrote: »

People generally use there heating in the winter when winds will be strongest so the heating coil in the cylinder is already heating the water! says joey the lips??

Joey you say this as if it free to heat the coil, and putting the immersion on for an hour a day is maybe no big deal to you, but it is costing me what 10 - 20 euro a week?

Gale your innocence is lovely! You clearly dont understand me so I will explain again!

You put your heating on to heat the house in the winter! As part of your heating system the water in your cylinder is heated. This happens regardless! So having a wind turbine simply powering an immersion when the turbine is working at its most efficent but the power is not needed by the immersion is a waste of energy! This of course is assuming you put your heating on in the winter and assumes you have not got storage heaters

1. You do put your heating on in the winter dont you!
2. Do you have storage heaters!

Oh and by the way if your immersion is costing you 10 euro a week thats 40 euro every month and 80 euro every 2 months! If you alrady have heating working through a coil its not a wind turbine you should be looking for its a very rich husband/wife you need!

Please look at what i was trying to say rather than simply nit pick on a fact which is true!

Gale

joey, don't get all arsey, its only a discussion forum, no one has stolen your dummy.

so my hot water gets heated in the winter for nothing does it? just because i have my central heating on? doesn't add to my oil or gas bill?

muffler

I think we're all adults here so lets post in a mature fashion please.

Joey the lips

Gale wrote: »

joey, don't get all arsey, its only a discussion forum, no one has stolen your dummy.

so my hot water gets heated in the winter for nothing does it? just because i have my central heating on? doesn't add to my oil or gas bill?

Its uneconomical to connect something so expensive to an immersion when the immersion is only used for 3 months generally! Its not that is being critical it makes more sense to ask about figures dont you agree!

Under normal usuage a windmill at the momet is in dispute about its return time but generall its accepted to be 10 years. Only connected to an immersion I reckon you would never see a return!

Why. No.1 when it heats the water to its required temp the immersion would shut off

No.2 The immersion is not used any lenght of time in a normal household situation

Gale

immersions are used for six months.
a 1 or 2kw turbine connected straight to a water heating device is perhaps the least expensive way of harnessing wind power as it employs least technology, avoids batteries, inverters etc, it can even be AC. selling elec to esb at half price requires a lot gear and installation

Joey the lips

Gale wrote: »

immersions are used for six months.
a 1 or 2kw turbine connected straight to a water heating device is perhaps the least expensive way of harnessing wind power as it employs least technology, avoids batteries, inverters etc, it can even be AC. selling elec to esb at half price requires a lot gear and installation

Wellm then I guarantee you you are not the norm but lets say you use your for 6 months costing you the dearer 20 euro a week that equates to

6 months x 4 weeks= 24 weeks at 20 euro a week is 480 euro a year!

how much is a wind turbine?
how much would DIY maintenace a year be if your lucky to be able

I dont think you are thinking seriously about this but far be it for me to argue how you spend your money!

Gale

lets say i save 400 from not using my immersion, and another 250 from reductions in my oil bill in the winter, since the oil burner will not have to heat my water, thats 750. Future Energy do a good small turbine for 700, if i could get it up on a pole and a suitable immersion type device connected up for another 700, it looks like a sound investment to me

Gale

muffler wrote: »

I think we're all adults here so lets post in a mature fashion please.

Muffler, - can we not just act the maggot instead?

Joey the lips

Gale wrote: »

lets say i save 400 from not using my immersion, and another 250 from reductions in my oil bill in the winter, since the oil burner will not have to heat my water, thats 750. Future Energy do a good small turbine for 700, if i could get it up on a pole and a suitable immersion type device connected up for another 700, it looks like a sound investment to me

You have totally missed the point I am afraid. Your heating is already heating your water in the winter you cant change or stop that! So the only saving is on your immersion in the summer as its connected directly to it. You will actually be dumping energy in the winter but again you seem to have the figures worked out

Go right ahead knock yourself out and enjoy! Your last line is very funny though thanks

muffler

Gale wrote: »

Muffler, - can we not just act the maggot instead?

Oh, feel free to do that also if you think it will enhance your participation in this forum. But I have one question for you. Have you ever been muffled?

bladespin

Gale wrote: »

lets say i save 400 from not using my immersion, and another 250 from reductions in my oil bill in the winter, since the oil burner will not have to heat my water, thats 750. Future Energy do a good small turbine for 700, if i could get it up on a pole and a suitable immersion type device connected up for another 700, it looks like a sound investment to me

I'd look at my water heater set-up at present, there's something wrong if it's costing you that much.

A turbine that would produce that much power would certainly cost a lot more than €700. I'd be very cautious about installing a turbine in that price range, there's lots of very poor quality turbines being imported from China; they may work fine there (questionable) but when subjected to our windspeeds they are liable to break up, not worth the risk as far as I'd be concerned.

Joey the lips

bladespin wrote: »

I'd look at my water heater set-up at present, there's something wrong if it's costing you that much.

A turbine that would produce that much power would certainly cost a lot more than €700. I'd be very cautious about installing a turbine in that price range, there's lots of very poor quality turbines being imported from China; they may work fine there (questionable) but when subjected to our windspeeds they are liable to break up, not worth the risk as far as I'd be concerned.

I dont think explaining it will get it through that was tried already. Better to just let the supplier benefit

10-10-20

Doctor L, I just noticed that there are some interesting replies on your blog from the "supplier of wizzmill to ireland and uk,scotland,etc"

"i dont normally lower ourself by acknowledging boards but on this occasion you have giving your name,address,occuption." Nice! Stalkers!

Let us know how you get on with this crowd...!

quentingargan

10-10-20 wrote: »

Doctor L, I just noticed that there are some interesting replies on your blog from the "supplier of wizzmill to ireland and uk,scotland,etc"

Hi 10/10/20. Yes, Dr L's is an interesting blog alright! Its a few pages back in this post but can be found here

10-10-20

Hi Quentin,

I was referring to the replies added to the blog only a couple of hours ago...!

August 9, 2009 4:08 PM

william said:

mr.liam noonan
my name is jens and im writing you from denmark,im sure you will check my ip address.
i am supplier of wizzmill to ireland and uk,scotland,etc i dont normally lower ourself by acknowledging boards but on this occasion you have giving your name,address,occuption.
according to google maps you are 35km from wizzmill ireland.please call in and they will go through the figures with you.im suprised you have not allready if this is your business.this will clear things up if that is what you want.
you also asked for details of where it comes from,on this we back them.they are protecting there business.this may be difficult to understand as you are goverment employed)correct me at will)but for businessmen it is quite normal.we get hundreds of calls from ireland and uk from people that visited wizzmill,liked it and then came directly to us.it is the only growing market.

Low Energy Eng

Joey the lips wrote: »

You have totally missed the point I am afraid. Your heating is already heating your water in the winter you cant change or stop that! So the only saving is on your immersion in the summer as its connected directly to it. You will actually be dumping energy in the winter but again you seem to have the figures worked out

Go right ahead knock yourself out and enjoy! Your last line is very funny though thanks

Hi Joey,

If the water has been heated up to adequate temperature in the winter from the wind turbine the stat on the calorifier will divert any heating produced from the boiler away.

Depending on the age of the installation of course, but anything built in the last 10-12 years at least should be set up as above.

Regards
Conor

Joey the lips

Low Energy Eng wrote: »

Hi Joey,

If the water has been heated up to adequate temperature in the winter from the wind turbine the stat on the calorifier will divert any heating produced from the boiler away.

Depending on the age of the installation of course, but anything built in the last 10-12 years at least should be set up as above.

Regards
Conor

Thats not my point but yes i understand that perfectly. My point was the heating is switched on in anyway. So why have a wind turbine power a immersion when the heating coil off the boiler will pass through the cylinder. It makes no sense.

Low Energy Eng

Joey,

Sorry, didnt quite get you. Yes, you are right though, for the amount of useable heat produced it wouldn't be feasable in the slightest.

Conor

quentingargan

This whole setup is raving mad. First though, I wonder what happens when the cylinder is up to temperature - how do you stop it boiling? Do you shut it down?

But the really daft bit is that for most of the year, the central heating provides heat for about 6 or 7c per KwHr. So costing out the return on this system based on electricity at 16c is not justified.

Also, why not sell the electricity to the grid instead for 19c? You can do this with an inverter which would double the value of the power, but not double the installation price.

And as is pointed out in other parts of Dr. L's blog, the figures for this machine just don't stack. While sugggesting that you put this into your back garden on a 6m tower, they then assume a load factor of some 31%, which as Dr. L points out is similar to what a 100m high wind farm turbine put on a premium site might achieve.

Bus most sinister is the fact that two people posting to Dr L's blog were coming from the same IP address. There is a similar illogical "customer" for the product on this post. I wonder if this is coming from the same IP address:cool:

Gale

quentingargan wrote: »

This whole setup is raving mad. First though, I wonder what happens when the cylinder is up to temperature - how do you stop it boiling? Do you shut it down?

Quentin, any water heating system is designed to deal with over heating, my own is an open vent system so boiling water is vented from the cylinder if the pressure becomes too great.

Quentin, this whole idea is not mad, check out http://www.countrysidemag.com/issues/92/92-4/using_wind_energy_for_direct_water_heating.html

it is a system which can harness 3 phase ac directly, making it a very efficient use of energy. using water to store energy instead of batteries has obvious benefits. LInking to the grid for small installations - is it really worth it?

I'm not from Wizzmill, i have decided against buying their product, and i think they should be much more careful about what they are promising, but i believe the concept may be what i am looking for.

Quentin Are you involved in the manufacture of a windmill here in ireland, did i pick thatup from a previous blog?

i thought it was half price the esb were paying for electric, not 19c?

And Lippy Joey, if a windmill heats water, that your oil burner would otherwise have to, the windmill is saving you money, the thermostat on the boiler will knock it of quicker. Yes we know the central heating coil is in the hot water cylinder, but don't you understand that heating all that water in the cylinder costs, and if the windmill has already done it the oil burner will not be on for as long.

And who was it that was on giving out about Chinese windmills, that old favourite, don't buy from anyone but us, i.e me and Quentin and Liam and who ever who may one day eventually produce a windmill here in ireland if we could all be bothered waiting on it. The product i referred to at 700euro is made in England by Future Energy, they are an excellent machine, according to a spark i met who installs them to pump water in remote locations here in Ireland.

Joey the lips

Gale wrote: »

quentingargan wrote: »

This whole setup is raving mad. First though, I wonder what happens when the cylinder is up to temperature - how do you stop it boiling? Do you shut it down?

Quentin, any water heating system is designed to deal with over heating, my own is an open vent system so boiling water is vented from the cylinder if the pressure becomes too great.

Quentin, this whole idea is not mad, check out http://www.countrysidemag.com/issues/92/92-4/using_wind_energy_for_direct_water_heating.html

it is a system which can harness 3 phase ac directly, making it a very efficient use of energy. using water to store energy instead of batteries has obvious benefits. LInking to the grid for small installations - is it really worth it?

I'm not from Wizzmill, i have decided against buying their product, and i think they should be much more careful about what they are promising, but i believe the concept may be what i am looking for.

Quentin Are you involved in the manufacture of a windmill here in ireland, did i pick thatup from a previous blog?

i thought it was half price the esb were paying for electric, not 19c?

And Lippy Joey, if a windmill heats water, that your oil burner would otherwise have to, the windmill is saving you money, the thermostat on the boiler will knock it of quicker. Yes we know the central heating coil is in the hot water cylinder, but don't you understand that heating all that water in the cylinder costs, and if the windmill has already done it the oil burner will not be on for as long.

And who was it that was on giving out about Chinese windmills, that old favourite, don't buy from anyone but us, i.e me and Quentin and Liam and who ever who may one day eventually produce a windmill here in ireland if we could all be bothered waiting on it. The product i referred to at 700euro is made in England by Future Energy, they are an excellent machine, according to a spark i met who installs them to pump water in remote locations here in Ireland.

Its simple if you think its a good idea go and do it. We are free to discuss it as are so are you. This is about opinions and we are all entitled to ours and yes you dont have to accept them

Better still why dont you market the idea. You will be rich in no time.

quentingargan

The price ESB pays for electricity exported back to the grid is currently 19c for the first 3,000 units per year, and 9c after that.

Yes, I am involved in manufacturing a turbine. We have had a Scottish machine for a number of years which powered our house (via batteries), but I wanted a second one to run our electric car on a grid-tie system. I had tried numerous low cost turbines all of which failed miserably, which was what inspired the idea of producing a machine.

Battery based systems are low voltage, high current and very inefficient, so compared to that option, water heating directly from the turbine 3~ is probably a reasonable proposal. But modern high voltage grid tie inverters have efficiency in the region of 96%.

The actual turbine being proposed for this project may well be a reasonable machine, but it is being mis-sold using optimistic (fantasy?) output figures and that is what is being called into question.

Doctor_L

If you live in a hard water area and own an electric kettle you will appreciate the problems that boiling causes to vessels.

Solar hot water systems are designed to stop heating water at 70 - 80 degrees. The panels are usually certified to 200 degrees approx for stagnation purposes when they are not heating water.

There is no mention of this feature with this product.