@^&$

liah

ARGH.

Okay, so someone linked me here from that thread in AH about Christianity.

Someone brought up the argument that without religion nobody would have any values.

Do they just not realise how ridiculous a statement that is? No, how insulting it is to the entire human race to imply that without some silly book we'd all be hopeless killers and thieves and rapists?

AHHHHHHH.

Someone make it stop.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Deep breaths.

Just sit back, assured in the knowledge that you're more intelligent than them.

The Mad Hatter

Welcome aboard.

Yes, it is an absurd argument. Yes, it comes up a lot. If it really bothers you, I suggest you steer clear of the Christianity forum.

mayordenis

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Welcome aboard.

Yes, it is an absurd argument. Yes, it comes up a lot. If it really bothers you, I suggest you steer clear of the Christianity forum.

this is your new bible.

liah

Haha, yeah, I would probably drive myself utterly insane.

I'm usually fine with most arguments, insofar as I can ignore them, but that one just really gets under my skin.

One person actually told me in real life, upon finding out I was an atheist, that he didn't want me anywhere near him because I had no morals and was probably some druggie slut. :pac: That was an awkward one. Nearly exploded on him.

Don't get how people can believe that.

Zillah

liah wrote: »

Okay, so someone linked me here from that thread in AH about Christianity.

I'd give you a choice of tea but considering how worked up you are I suggest some Chamomile. *sip*

liah

I'm good now.

...I think. :pac:

994

Maybe because, often, good actions seem more or less irrational, so an irrational reason must be composed to force people to do them, en masse.

Zillah

We have had plenty of mega-thread arguments with the religious where we try to explain how morality is a natural human trait rather than a result of religion. I describe it as religion highjacking morality. I can try dig some of them up for you if you like.

V9

Oh lawl.

Makes me laugh, I know of people who ****ing lick the alter week in week out on a Sunday, help the local priest or whatever and have commited adultry! Where are their morals? The family values eh?

Asshats.

gizmo

Hilarious! While I have no problem discussing religious values with someone, for a person to actually come out and say that kind of ****, it's a real head scratcher for me. That being said, I'd also freely admit to them that I've probably learned more about morals/right and wrong from the watching Batman and similar cartoons as a kid.

Fanny Cradock

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Welcome aboard.

Yes, it is an absurd argument. Yes, it comes up a lot. If it really bothers you, I suggest you steer clear of the Christianity forum.

Nonsense.

Instead of making vague accusations about Christians at large - accusations I believe you make simply to coddle your preconceptions - why not be gracious enough to admit that not every Christian holds such views. Furthermore, if anyone makes such a claim, bring it to the mods attention and we can deal with it.

kiffer

He-man was in fact crypto-christian subliminal programming...
Adam is Jesus (the last adam?), He-man is the risen Christ...
Cringer/Battlecat is the holy spirit... At times a peaceful gentle dove (giant cat), but in times of need a powerfull force, brave and noble bringing He-man/Adam/Jesus to where he needs to go.
God of course is the unseen Power of Grayskull... The Sourceress could be Mary? No... Must be one of the angels...
Man-at-Arms is clearly Simon Peter(wait what?)... The other side kicks are other followers.
Mamatarms daughter is mary magdelain...
I cant remember who was the Judas character ... What is Orko's role?(orco?)

It all so clear... At 4am after an evening of light head banging... There may be some swelling of the fore-brain ...
Next up ... She-Ra, Princess of Power.

Zombrex

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Nonsense.

Instead of making vague accusations about Christians at large

Since when is the Christianity forum is "Christians at large"?

This argument (no belief in God = no reason to be moral blah blah blah) comes up all the time on the Christianity forum (along with the phrase "scientific proof", but don't get me started about that one!!!)

If you disagree and think that this position is a minor sub-set of what "Christians at large" believe blame the regular Christian posters such as Wolfsbane who can't seem to go a day without suggesting it, rather than the atheists who get annoyed that it comes up a lot.

Goduznt Xzst

ah... our good friend Húrin, yeah he does that.

For more information on his opinion and objections to it see: Divine Command Theory

He tends to keep his arguments to meta-ethical and metaphysical philosophy, sprinkled with attempts to deny individuals that have arguments counter to his by claiming they have an inherent lack of objectivity.

It really is a stance that isn't worth debating against if you have the intention of getting any form of conclusion or resolution, as, like with all of metaphysics, every opinion is just another shade of gray.

The Mad Hatter

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Nonsense.

Instead of making vague accusations about Christians at large - accusations I believe you make simply to coddle your preconceptions - why not be gracious enough to admit that not every Christian holds such views. Furthermore, if anyone makes such a claim, bring it to the mods attention and we can deal with it.

wtf? I was talking about the Christianity forum - not Christians at large.

Fanny Cradock

Wicknight wrote: »

(along with the phrase "scientific proof", but don't get me started about that one!!!)

Always with the little digs, eh? Try cracking that a 3rd time and I might laugh.

Fanny Cradock

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

wtf? I was talking about the Christianity forum - not Christians at large.

Yes, Christians at large in the Christianity forum.

Dades

Ah to be fair, it was a warning in jest not to venture in the Christianity forum where the view that all morality stems from God/religion is widespread.

It's even common response amongst people in the "real world". Suggest we take religion away and people's first thought is what's to stop everyone stealing and murdering.

The Mad Hatter

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Yes, Christians at large in the Christianity forum.

I really don't think the Christianity forum is representative of Christians at large, though. I've said this before.

Galvasean

I really hope the Christianity forum does not represent Christians at large. An alarmingly high volume of regular posters there claim to be of the opinion that if God was (somehow for arguments sake) shown not to be real there would be nothing stopping them from murdering/raping/pillaging etc.

Stercus Accidit

Maybe if we atheists had religious morals, we would have all realised that was an insulting comment.

Oh wait we don't, and it wasn't.

Welcome aboard liah, I believe I thanked one of your epic posts in that thread, thought this place would suit you down to the ground.

Fanny Cradock

Galvasean wrote: »

I really hope the Christianity forum does not represent Christians at large. An alarmingly high volume of regular posters there claim to be of the opinion that if God was (somehow for arguments sake) shown not to be real there would be nothing stopping them from murdering/raping/pillaging etc.

I don't believe that that is the case. It seems to me that Christians there have said that if they lost their faith then the the basis of their morality would be challenged, not that they would suddenly feel the need to start raping.

Dades

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I don't believe that that is the case.

Me neither. Of course that depends on what people deem a "Christian" to be!

PDN

Dades wrote: »

Me neither. Of course that depends on what people deem a "Christian" to be!

That all depends.

If it is someone nasty like Hitler then the definition of 'Christian' becomes amazingly broad and so includes Adolf despite his frequent denunciations of Christianity.

If it is someone considered cool, such as Barack Obama, then the definition of Christian becomes so narrow as to deny that he is a Christian. This kind of sophistry reaches its zenith when Christopher Hitchens denies that Rev Martin Luther King Jr was a Christian.

Of course to point this atheist evangelasticism out at all is to open oneself up to the charge of derailing the thread by arguing about semantics.

Stercus Accidit

Maybe if Christians didn't have a policy of indoctrinating infants that wouldn't be as much of an issue.

kiffer

PDN wrote: »

That all depends.

If it is someone nasty like Hitler ...

Bringing up Hitler already? It's only post 25 into the thread...

Works both ways, we on occasion see Christians saying nasty Christians aren't "really" Christians.

Dades

I'd be more liberal with the definition, myself.

Like anyone who has a vague belief that Jesus rose from the dead and God was his father. And was maybe afraid sometimes that God was watching them.

Fanny Cradock

PDN wrote: »

That all depends.

If it is someone nasty like Hitler then the definition of 'Christian' becomes amazingly broad and so includes Adolf despite his frequent denunciations of Christianity.

If it is someone considered cool, such as Barack Obama, then the definition of Christian becomes so narrow as to deny that he is a Christian. This kind of sophistry reaches its zenith when Christopher Hitchens denies that Rev Martin Luther King Jr was a Christian.

Of course to point this atheist evangelasticism out at all is to open oneself up to the charge of derailing the thread by arguing about semantics.

It does seem like the secularisation of MLK Jr has been going on for some years now - either unconsciously or otherwise. Hitchens is simply carrying the torch. Anyway, with regards to how you determine who is a Christian, it becomes difficult when you have people like the BNP jumping on the Jesus wagon.

Genghiz Cohen

Dades wrote: »

I'd be more liberal with the definition, myself.

Like anyone who has a vague belief that Jesus rose from the dead and God was his father. And was maybe afraid sometimes that God was watching them.

Yeah, that's my one as well.
If you believe in Christ you are Christian<<endl

Zombrex

kiffer wrote: »

Bringing up Hitler already? It's only post 25 into the thread...

Works both ways, we on occasion see Christians saying nasty Christians aren't "really" Christians.

Nooooooo!!!!!!!!, that is what he wants you to do !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!