Same old GAA?

SectionF

Is there any defence for this ignorance?

Daysha

Jaysus it's John B. Keane's The Field all over again.

It was a pretty childish thing to do, but there's two sides to every story.

Also:

Same old GAA?

Are you purposefully trying to antagonise people here?

buck65

No there is no defence. As much as I love the game of hurling the GAA as an organisation completely put me off. This is a disgrace.
The GAA is in decline anyway and a large part is down to themselves.

Mr Soft

No excuse for that behaviour at all.

But at the same time, a hole was dig in the GAA pitch in retaliation.

So both GAA club and the Soccer club have done things they should be ashamed of.

Browney7

buck65 wrote: »

No there is no defence. As much as I love the game of hurling the GAA as an organisation completely put me off. This is a disgrace.
The GAA is in decline anyway and a large part is down to themselves.

Got to disagree with you there.

The skill levels in both codes are at the highest level they have ever been and sure Croker is regularly packed out on big match days.

The same could be said for irish soccer with only 60000 turning up for the Bulgaria match.

sslazio11

Holy Jesus. I played soccer on that field against Castlemaine 10 years ago. That's truly shameful on the part of the Kerry County Board.

Daysha, there are two sides to every story, but I'd love to hear what the GAA's justification is other than "We weren't getting our way, so we ignored the due legal process, went in and dug up the field in the middle of the night".

Is there anyone here who knows a bit more about what's going on?

Daysha

Oh I agree it's a stupid thing to do, there's no denying that. It would just good to get some clearer clarification from the GAA club regarding their actions. Any of the Kerry posters know more about it?

cruiserweight

I will wait and hear the outcome (if any) before forming any opinion on this. Synopsis appears to be, GAA club have planning permission for land and claim to have documentation stating that they own that land. Local groups have always used that land. Kerry county board start development at night and don't tell anybody. GAA pitch dug up in retaliation. Everybody unhappy.

With my mod hat on, this thread deals with what could be a very contentious and emotive issue. So there will be absolutely zero tolerance, off topic posting, trolling, abuse etc will result in the thread being locked and users being banned.

kevmy

buck65 wrote: »

No there is no defence. As much as I love the game of hurling the GAA as an organisation completely put me off. This is a disgrace.
The GAA is in decline anyway and a large part is down to themselves.

It was a fierce thick thing to do but I don't think the actions of one club in Kerry has anything to do with the GAA as a whole.

I think it is a ridiculous thing to say the GAA is in decline. The most played sports in the country, the biggest attendances week in week out, the best grassroots organisation and, with the possible exception of the IRFU in the last few years, the most professional sporting organisation in Ireland

GAAman

I wont comment fully until all the facts are known but i will say this

IF the ground fully belongs to them they can use it in whatever way they see fit, if the boot was on the other foot and it was the soccer team who did it i am sure the tune would be changed. The soccer team (or someone acting for them) then vandalised a pitch in retaliation. This second pitch was not owned by the soccer team so they had no right to do this.

Simple fact is IF the pitch belonged to the them then they can do what they like, dont agree? Two words......SHAMROCK.......ROVERS.

sslazio11

GAAman wrote: »

I wont comment fully until all the facts are known but i will say this

The soccer team (or someone acting for them) then vandalised a pitch in retaliation. This second pitch was not owned by the soccer team so they had no right to do this.

The facts aren't fully known, so we have no idea if any members of the soccer club were involved. Bit premature to be blaming them.

It's sad to see stuff like this happening, must be a very tense atmosphere in both villages.

keane2097

kevmy wrote: »

It was a fierce thick thing to do but I don't think the actions of one club in Kerry has anything to do with the GAA as a whole.

Well be careful here. It's not like the club in question is just some shower of boggers in the back of beyonds of rural Kerry. Milltown/Castlemaine is a big club - Division 1 more often than not. They represented Kerry in the Munster Championship three or four years ago and they won the Senior County Championship this year playing with Mid-Kerry.

Secondly, if you read the article carefully, Jerome Conway, Chairman of the Kerry County Board has stated that the club have "been given a directive by Croke Park to use the property".

Seeing as the work was carried out under the instruction of Croke Park I would say you're well off the mark in your statement "I don't think the actions of one club in Kerry has anything to do with the GAA as a whole".

The whole thing was directed and sanctioned by headquarters.

kevmy wrote: »

I think it is a ridiculous thing to say the GAA is in decline. The most played sports in the country, the biggest attendances week in week out, the best grassroots organisation and, with the possible exception of the IRFU in the last few years, the most professional sporting organisation in Ireland

This is clearly correct, anyone who claims the GAA is in decline is misinformed.

Orizio

buck65 wrote: »

No there is no defence. As much as I love the game of hurling the GAA as an organisation completely put me off. This is a disgrace.
The GAA is in decline anyway and a large part is down to themselves.

Ummm what?

Orizio

Sounds like both the GAA and soccer clubs are acting like eejits, although the threadstarter would no doubt like to paint it otherwise. 'Same old human flaws' sounds like a more apt title.

KerranJast

Mr Soft wrote: »

No excuse for that behaviour at all.

But at the same time, a hole was dig in the GAA pitch in retaliation.

So both GAA club and the Soccer club have done things they should be ashamed of.

Except that the first instigation seems to have been officially sanctioned by
GAA HQ and the GAA club whereas the retaliation was probably not.

SectionF

Orizio wrote: »

Sounds like both the GAA and soccer clubs are acting like eejits, although the threadstarter would no doubt like to paint it otherwise. 'Same old human flaws' sounds like a more apt title.

Since you referred to me directly, I think I have the right to point out that, while both actions are questionable, it takes a bigger eejit to plough up a football field than it does to dig a hole in the middle of one.

I won't comment on the GAA is/isn't in decline side issue here, but this ESRI report might shed some light
http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publications/20090218094827/BKMNEXT127.pdf (see p. 25)

keane2097

SectionF wrote: »

Since you referred to me directly, I think I have the right to point out that, while both actions are questionable, it takes a bigger eejit to plough up a football field than it does to dig a hole in the middle of one.

It doesn't take any eejits to dig up land you own and have planning permission to develop. Are you deliberately ignoring that or did you just not read the article?

zesman

There's a bit of a difference between a hole being dug in a pit and a field being ploughed up. But we certainly need to hear both sides of the story before coming to a conclusion

super_furry

Can't say I'm surprised. We've seen elements within the GAA's modus operandi when it comes to trying to quash the playing and support of soccer. They're still banging on about how "unfair" it was that Tallaght Stadium wasn't made into a GAA pitch rather than soccer and are already making similar noises about a campaign to prevent Sporting Fingal getting a pitch.

Rule 42 and the attitudes that surround it haven't gone away.

keane2097

zesman wrote: »

There's a bit of a difference between a hole being dug in a pit and a field being ploughed up. But we certainly need to hear both sides of the story before coming to a conclusion

Well the end result is basically that both pitches become unplayable, the main difference I can see is that there's an argument that can be made for one action being done for an actual reason (i.e. development) while the other is indefensibly vandalism, either by the soccer club or others.

GAAman

sslazio11 wrote: »

The facts aren't fully known, so we have no idea if any members of the soccer club were involved. Bit premature to be blaming them.

It's sad to see stuff like this happening, must be a very tense atmosphere in both villages.

You misunderstood me, i was saying someone vandalised the other pitch be it the soccer team itself or someone on their behalf (not to say they got someone else to do it but someone who did it because they felt the soccer team were slighted)

But you are right it is sad to see it happening and as i said i will wait for the full facts to come to light before i comment further i was making the point the gaelic team had planning permission (from what i read) whereas the second pitch was done outta spite

SectionF

keane2097 wrote: »

It doesn't take any eejits to dig up land you own and have planning permission to develop. Are you deliberately ignoring that or did you just not read the article?

I read the article. It conveyed rather more than that. Certainly, a lot of people in Kerry, including some with GAA involvement, seem to think there is more to it than a non-eejit digging up land he owns.

Orizio

Since you referred to me directly, I think I have the right to point out that, while both actions are questionable, it takes a bigger eejit to plough up a football field than it does to dig a hole in the middle of one.

Umm yeah. Instead of the above, lets be reasonable and rational about this and say instead that the GAA club acted in bad spirit trying to construct the field against local opinion even if they had the legal right to do so, and like wise the soccer lads acted in bad faith trying to sabotage the constuction. Seems fair, as opposed to some rather petty point scoring ethics contest between both sports, a contest that the GAA would of course win handsomely.

I won't comment on the GAA is/isn't in decline side issue here, but this ESRI report might shed some light
http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publications/20090218094827/BKMNEXT127.pdf (see p. 25)

You must be the millionith soccer fan to drag this up. I always reply with a suggestion that the terms 'slight' and 'relative' be understood by the soccer fan and in context (as in the GAA has gone from being the dominant competitive sport in Ireland to being just a little less dominant, but still very strong and very popular), and ask them if they really think this decline is really more then quite tiny, insignificant and really reflective of a complete demise of the GAA?

I might also ask if, being objective and dropping all prejudices, that it might be a bad thing for Ireland culturally if the GAA was to go? As in, its one of the very few uniquely Irish things that actually still exists, and more generally cultural differences and rarities are good for humanity and deserve, no need, to be preserved?

buck65

Just to clarify my comments here on the "GAA in decline"
I don't mean in terms of skill or the ammount of youngsters playing the game.
I mean my attendance and general interest in comparison to other sports. We had Kilkenny , the AI Champs in Ennis last week and a crowd of 2500 people show up in Ennis.
Youngsters will lose interest and go to other sports. I managed an underage hurling team for 3 years and had to call it a day when myself and 2 selectors paid €20 each for sliotars and €10 each for a few drinks and taytos etc.

Pride Fighter

The ownership of the pitch is disputed, the GAA have no rights here. They should not have dug up the pitch without a legal order confirming they own the deed.

This is sickening and the GAA club should be forced to wind up for being the antithesis of community spirit, which is what the real GAA is about.

Orizio

Not sure what you mean Buck - you say its not a matter of how many people are playing, and then say people will lost interest? As for spending your own money, sounds like a financial problem without your own local club.

If your from Clare (for some reason I assumed you were a Corkonian) then Clare GAA is really in the doldrums right now, which happens. A couple of years time and it might have changed completely, but I wouldn't use Clare in '09 as an example for the GAA as a whole. I can't say I would be too eager to spend my money if I was a Clare fan to watch my mediocre malfunctioning side get destroyed by one of the greatest teams in hurling history in a national league game (the GAA and county boards do need to cut prices however).

I actually understand league attendances as a whole are up this year.

Hitman Actual

buck65 wrote: »

I mean my attendance and general interest in comparison to other sports. We had Kilkenny , the AI Champs in Ennis last week and a crowd of 2500 people show up in Ennis.

To use this as an example of the GAA being in decline, you need to show that 5 years ago, or 10 years, or whatever, there would have been a much bigger attendance at such a game. Attendances are always small at league games. Any drop in attendances these days would be primarily related to the recession, so all sports would be affected the same. Was Croke Park packed out for the Bulgaria game last Saturday? Tyrone-Dublin got 79,000 a few months back. There were 32,000 or so for the club finals. Do you really think the GAA is in decline, or do you just want it to be in decline?

Orizio

Pride Fighter wrote: »

The ownership of the pitch is disputed, the GAA have no rights here. They should not have dug up the pitch without a legal order confirming they own the deed.

This is sickening and the GAA club should be forced to wind up for being the antithesis of community spirit, which is what the real GAA is about.

Whatever the ins and outs of the case, using it as a sitck to attack the GAA as a whole is rather absurd and petty. It is a local dispute over land between two organisations/groups, not exactly a rarity in Ireland.

Orizio

In fairness Hitman, I don't think Buck wants it to be in decline, and it is technically in decline, but only slightly and in relative terms, or from an exceedingly powerful position.

If you want to find people praying for the downfall of the GAA, then off to the soccer forum, or even the rugby forum.

Hitman Actual

Orizio wrote: »

In fairness Hitman, I don't think Buck wants it to be in decline, and it is technically in decline, but only slightly and in relative terms, or from an exceedingly powerful position.

If you want to find people praying for the downfall of the GAA, then off to the soccer forum, or even the rugby forum.

Okay, a poor assumption on my part. I just find that people who claim (with no convincing evidence) that the GAA is in decline just want it to be true.

CiaranC

Orizio wrote: »

Whatever the ins and outs of the case, using it as a sitck to attack the GAA as a whole is rather absurd and petty. It is a local dispute over land between two organisations/groups, not exactly a rarity in Ireland.

The directive came from Croke Park, just like the directives with Shamrock Rovers and now Lusk.

This is not a localised one-off, it is part of the policy of the GAA. The GAA as a whole.

Orizio

Ok, and whats this policy exactly? In your words.

Saying Croke Park=GAA is more then pushing it btw.

Orizio

Regarding Lusk and Tallaght, whats wrong with the GAA wanting to using state funded facilities again?

Rather hyprocritical of soccer clubs closing out the GAA in state funded stadiums when the GAA bailed the FAI out with Croker.

SectionF

Orizio wrote: »

I might also ask if, being objective and dropping all prejudices, that it might be a bad thing for Ireland culturally if the GAA was to go? As in, its one of the very few uniquely Irish things that actually still exists, and more generally cultural differences and rarities are good for humanity and deserve, no need, to be preserved?

I'm tempted but we are completely off topic here. I responded to a btw with another btw, and perhaps I shouldn't have. If you want to start another thread on it sometime, let me know. If I have time, I'll be happy to engage on that one.

Anyway, lots of shooting the messenger on the pitch wreckers. This seems quite a big deal in Kerry where, if the Kerryman is to believed, it is seen by many as reflecting poorly on the GAA. I thought it relevant on a national level because I am forever hearing about how the GAA has long left behind the culture of animosity towards football.

Hitman Actual

SectionF wrote: »

Anyway, lots of shooting the messenger on the pitch wreckers. This seems quite a big deal in Kerry where, if the Kerryman is to believed, it is seen by many as reflecting poorly on the GAA. I thought it relevant on a national level because I am forever hearing about how the GAA has long left behind the culture of animosity towards football.

I agree it reflects badly on the GAA, but was it really an act of animosity towards the soccer community? It appears to me that it was a case of a club trying to avoid as much hassle as possible with the local community in starting a redevelopment that they had gotten planning permission for. Sly and underhanded, yes, but do you really think they did it just to piss off the soccer club?

Orizio

Yes, everything the GAA does is designed to annoy soccer people. We are obsessed with them you know.

Orizio

SectionF wrote: »

I am forever hearing about how the GAA has long left behind the culture of animosity towards football.

Fair point, its a bit like how soccer fans and reporters repeatedly try to say thuggery and bigotry have disapeared from its culture...:p

SectionF

Orizio wrote: »

Fair point, its a bit like how soccer fans and reporters repeatedly try to say thuggery and bigotry have disapeared from its culture...:p

Talk about changing the subject!

super_furry

Orizio wrote: »

Whatever the ins and outs of the case, using it as a sitck to attack the GAA as a whole is rather absurd and petty. It is a local dispute over land between two organisations/groups, not exactly a rarity in Ireland.

Not at all. It states quite clearly that the orders to destroy the pitch came from Croke Park.

IIMII

Has nobody noticed the date on the article was April 1st???

Robxxx7

regardless of the date, the incident did happen .... fact

SectionF

Some posters have argued that this is the GAA's own land, so they can do what they like with it.

Question: If it's GAA property, how come it let a football club play on it for 20 years rent-free. Surely a violation of Rule 42?

The_Kew_Tour

God some you guys need to grow up.. this tit for tat crap is just unreal..As a sportsman (I am GAA first by way) I think what happened is totally wrong of the GAA and they should be punished for it. Im sure if it was other way around we be on about it for quite some time..

Its like kids fighting over an apple pathetic really is.. Time to move out of the history books and wake up to reality.

And anyone who thinks the GAA is not in decline would want to wake up and smell the roses. The standard of both codes has gone down dramatically in last few years. People are sick of forking out expensive money and the GAA treat these supports like crap (I know im off topic but has be said)

Robxxx7

SectionF wrote: »

Some posters have argued that this is the GAA's own land, so they can do what they like with it.

Question: If it's GAA property, how come it let a football club play on it for 20 years rent-free. Surely a violation of Rule 42?

My understanding is that Rule 42 relates only to Croke Park .... but i stand to be corrected

IIMII

Why does the soccer team think they have a claim on the field?

Hitman Actual

Robxxx7 wrote: »

My understanding is that Rule 42 relates only to Croke Park .... but i stand to be corrected

No, Rule 42 (now Rule 44) applies to all property (grounds, clubhouses, dressing rooms, etc) owned by GAA clubs. The change to Rule 42 applies only to Croke Park, and also it only applies when Landsdowne is being redeveloped.

Hitman Actual

SectionF wrote: »

Some posters have argued that this is the GAA's own land, so they can do what they like with it.

Question: If it's GAA property, how come it let a football club play on it for 20 years rent-free. Surely a violation of Rule 42?

That's a good question and a hard one to answer without knowing the legalities involved and any precedent in the GAA. It's something of a grey area as it's not a developed GAA ground; also, I don't know how holding the field in trust applies to legal ownership, or following on from that, Rule 42. I'm unsure of the precedent in the GAA, although I'd be surprised if this sort of controversy hasn't come up before.

Hitman Actual

adrian280582 wrote: »

And anyone who thinks the GAA is not in decline would want to wake up and smell the roses. The standard of both codes has gone down dramatically in last few years. People are sick of forking out expensive money and the GAA treat these supports like crap (I know im off topic but has be said)

Maybe it is in decline, but are we just supposed to take your word for it? I've no interest in simple anecdotes; I want facts, figures, stats, etc. Have attendances fallen off? Has the number of players taking up the games dropped dramatically? Is the standard of play worse these days? Have levels of volunteerism dropped off? I've no problem accepting that there are problems in the GAA if the facts are there to show it.

Robxxx7

i stand corrected

I live fairly close to the area in question and can only say that the field that was ploughed up was deemed locally to be a community field ... i never knew the local GAA club owned it (assuming they do), but it will be very divisive for the communities of Milltown and Castlemaine for sure

patmac

ChroiNaEireann wrote: »

Thankfully you are incorrect. We let the enemies of the GAA into Croke Park for a few quid and are not suffering as a result.

No foreign imperialist games are allowed on our hallowed turf and I commend the Castle Island club for their actions.

We now have one less soccer club to contend with.

Good first post, great to see a true gael on here at last. BTW Castleisland is one word not two but apart from that well done I look forward to more of the same.


As for the OP ah can't be bothered Shamrock Rovers all over again if true and no matter how many times we agree how wrong it is the soccer crowd will just gloat over the fact, must have made the OP's day when he heard the story.

If I went on to the soccer forum and did a post called 'same old soccer' about some League of Ireland club being mis managed, or soccer fans rioting in Belfast, or paying €12000 for the privilage of watching 4 meaningful Irish games a year for the next 10 years in the new Aviva stadium and many more subjects I wonder how long I would last.

The GAA is not a perfect organization but I doubt it's in decline as much as Section F's much beloved LOI.

cruiserweight

ChroiNaEireann wrote: »

The GAA foolishly agreed to administer the field for "the community" in the 30's and for the last 20 years abdicated this responsibility to the soccer gougers who shamlessly put up goals and used it.

Thankfully no more.

I'm glad to see Croke Park finally standing up to these people. A free facility for the Gaels has been obtained at significant cost to the garrison game.

ChroiNaEireann wrote: »

Thankfully you are incorrect. We let the enemies of the GAA into Croke Park for a few quid and are not suffering as a result.

No foreign imperialist games are allowed on our hallowed turf and I commend the Castle Island club for their actions.

We now have one less soccer club to contend with.

I am not sure if you heart is in the right place. Thread carefully, this thread has suprisingly had no problems so far, it looks like you are trying to antagonise people, less of the garrison game and gouger comments or you will be banned from this forum