Wanna be excluded?

WooPeeA

Many people want to be excluded from Catholic Church, and I don't get it. I don't see any sense in that.

I know it makes many people angry if they know they are part of this religion but actually they are not.

OK, my points are:


1. You haven't sign anything, you have not agree to be part of anything and you haven't join that organization yourself (well, at least most of you). So you are not part of it. It's just a piece of paper and nobody really care about it, except yourself.

2. It won't bring any physical change to your life. You will enjoy the things you used to do before, it also won't change your life philosophy or point of view. As I said before it's just a piece of paper that could even disappear through so many years and nobody care.

So why bother?


I don't even know if I'm a member of any religion. Even if I am, I don't care. It's just they who think I am one, but I'm not. I won't make them happy by trying to be excluded the way they wanted me to do so.

Is it not better to give a **** about them and let them live in the illusion of millions of followers they made to satisfy themselves.

So, my question to you folks is, why people want to be excluded officially?

fitz0

Why bother you say? Well why not? Why should we give them "the illusion of millions of followers"? The more followers they can claim the higher the horse they sit on becomes.

If they see they are hemorrhaging devotees maybe, just maybe, they'll change their policies, making life easier for those who remain fanatically devoted to that specific religion. I know thats very unlikely but so what? You never know what will happen.

A few people, myself included, want to make a firm statement to the church that we don't hold with their damnation of our "sinful" lives. And a piece of paper can mean a whole lot to a person whether you can understand why or not.

I find your apathetic attitude to be typical of people today on a whole range of subjects. Why bother? You won't change anything anyway so don't try. etc etc. I'm sick and tired of hearing the same old talk.

frodi

I refused to play the fake lapsed catholic role when I was getting married to my current wife. The PP started to get shirty and pulled the "you were baptized" trick. He only agreed to our wedding after I went thro the official get me out of this church route. He still made us jump thro some hoops even at that. If my current wife hadn't wanted to get married in a church so badly I wouldn't have bothered.
BTW this was 20 years ago. Attitudes may have changed but I doubt it.

sink

I suppose it has something to do with not wanting the Catholic church to derive political capital by claiming to have so many members when a significant proportion don't follow the religion anymore but are too lazy to get their name struck off.

pierrot

The census says there are over 3,460,000 catholics in Ireland. I don't hold this to be true. They still claim you even if you leave, though.

ttilting

If I was borne a member of the Nazi party I wouldn't just stop turning up to their meetings .... I would want to totally disassociate my self from that organisation.

If I die prematurely, I CERTAINLY don't want a the ''laughable'', ''silly'' ''spurious'' and indeed dangerous catholic mass to mark my demise.

challengemaster

Actually, out of interest - what is the procedure for this?

pierrot

challengemaster wrote: »

Actually, out of interest - what is the procedure for this?

Do a quick search, its on a few threads. Basically write to your archbishop and request to officially leave, they should send you the forms.

MrPudding

If it wasn't for my bone idleness I would have tried to do something as well. Fitz0 sums up my personal reasons quite nicely. I can't stand the organisation and the fact that they can still "claim" me does irritate me somwhat. But at the end of the day it is a waste of time.

Pierrot, even when you go through the process with the archbishop and the form and whatnot, they can and will still claim you as a catholic. And that is why it is a waste of time.

MrP

WooPeeA

fitz0 wrote: »

I find your apathetic attitude to be typical of people today on a whole range of subjects. Why bother? You won't change anything anyway so don't try. etc etc. I'm sick and tired of hearing the same old talk.

I'm not saying not to do it. I just think those people don't really care, they are blinded by that ideology completely.

It's all about making money, I don't think membership makes any difference to them. As long as you won't pay some donation in the church or their bank accounts worldwide you're not important whenever you are a member or not. Vatican owns lands and companies worth more than anyone could ever imagine. Why should they care about small person like me for example? Simply, they don't.

That's what I didn't understand and wanted to find out with this thread, are those who make those efforts to quit ruled by hate or a reason.

sink wrote: »

I suppose it has something to do with not wanting the Catholic church to derive political capital by claiming to have so many members when a significant proportion don't follow the religion anymore but are too lazy to get their name struck off.

Church doesn't have any real power, but politicians think they do so church makes use of it for their own purposes in the countries with conservative governments.

pierrot wrote: »

The census says there are over 3,460,000 catholics in Ireland. I don't hold this to be true. They still claim you even if you leave, though.

Every intelligent person know that statistics made by church will be always pro-church as well as statistics made by any other organization or religion will always support their statements.

The thing is to find independent stats and make your own conclusions.

Church doesn't count their members one by one and probably never will and that's the fact.

ttilting wrote: »

If I was borne a member of the Nazi party I wouldn't just stop turning up to their meetings .... I would want to totally disassociate my self from that organisation.

You were not born a catholic. You were born a free man. Fact that someone have putted you on the list doesn't make you a catholic at all.

fitz0

WooPeeA wrote: »

I'm not saying not to do it. I just think those people don't really care, they are blinded by that ideology completely.

It's all about making money, I don't think membership makes any difference to them. As long as you won't pay some donation in the church or their bank accounts worldwide you're not important whenever you are a member or not. Vatican owns lands and companies worth more than anyone could ever imagine. Why should they care about small person like me for example? Simply, they don't.

All the more reason for the "small person" to stand up and be counted. If every atheist in Ireland did it then the church would have to take notice. Unfortunately BDM Catholicism is rampant.

Mark Hamill

sink wrote: »

I suppose it has something to do with not wanting the Catholic church to derive political capital by claiming to have so many members when a significant proportion don't follow the religion anymore but are too lazy to get their name struck off.

But how does the church gain any political capital? Wouldn't the government base the number of catholics (or any religion) in ireland on the census, which is sent to every household in Ireland, not every parish.

sink

Mark Hamill wrote: »

But how does the church gain any political capital? Wouldn't the government base the number of catholics (or any religion) in ireland on the census, which is sent to every household in Ireland, not every parish.

Political capital is simply built upon peoples perceptions which rarely accurately reflect the hard facts. If the Church can claim so many members regardless of how many are actual followers, that positions the Church in a more dominant position in the minds of both politicians and the public and gains it influence. Most people would take the Churches word for it and not be pedantic enough to check the official census statistics. And remember the Catholic church is not restricted to Ireland, it is a global enterprise and the more followers it can lay claim to globally, the more influence it will have at global institutions like the UN and the G20.

WooPeeA

Yes sink, but there is a difference between 100 men who decided to become a member and 100 of men who has been putted on the list by someone else without their permission.

Power of church is not that big as it looks.

In many countries new laws which can be considered as those against Catholic ideology are applied and people don't even protest much.

Rev Hellfire

I just don't see the point.

Sure fine if your ego demands it go for it, but its a pointless exercise.
They're more worried about the lack of bums on seats than a handful of people who have their knickers in a twist and need to ram it down their throats.

If you really want to make your stance known and count all you have to do is put the appropriate entry in the census, beyond that no-one gives a toss.

Galvasean

WooPeeA wrote: »

You were not born a catholic. You were born a free man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkBd3FD1GRY

Dades

I would never assume that sending a letter to the church is going to impact on any stats they hand out. It's something worth doing for your own piece of mind if you're that way inclined - but that's it.

The census is what counts and the problem there is mammys putting anyone from 1 to 30 living under her roof down as catholic.

robindch

Dades wrote: »

The census is what counts and the problem there is mammys putting anyone from 1 to 30 living under her roof down as catholic.

Needs to be dealt with.

So we have Anne Doyle on the box saying that there's 3,460,000 catholics in the country, but seasonally-adjusted, there's actually 259.

Galvasean

I've had to explain to several people that they arent Catholic.
It never ceases to amaze me how many 'Catholics' are floalting around these days who:
- Use condoms
- Don't believe the Pope has a direct line with God
- Don't go to mass
- Don't believe Jesus came back from the dead

Seems, being a Glasow Celtic supporter is all it takes to be Catholic these days.

WooPeeA

That's another very interesting point, Galvasean. But try to explain people who think they are catholics that they are not even Christian. :rolleyes:

eoin5

I guess some people see it as part of their heritage. The "I come from an RC background so I'm a catholic but I dont believe any of that god cr@p" kind of attitude.

I think on another thread someone mentioned that some countries take money from you to give to your church. Then its certainly worth leaving. Over here I think the RC church has lost all credibility so whatever figure they want to make up we can ignore so it doesnt really matter either way.

Galvasean

As far as people not wanting to be used in the RC's statistics, something tells me they will never go around saying, "There's still 2million Catholics in Ireland... there were 3.4million last year."

Galvasean

Galvasean wrote: »

I've had to explain to several people that they arent Catholic.
It never ceases to amaze me how many 'Catholics' are floalting around these days who:
- Use condoms
- Don't believe the Pope has a direct line with God
- Don't go to mass
- Don't believe Jesus came back from the dead

Seems, being a Glasow Celtic supporter is all it takes to be Catholic these days.

Oh hey, the latest After Hours census is in. Look at all those 'Catholics'...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055527172

Goduznt Xzst

WooPeeA wrote: »

You were born a free man.

There can be only one Free man... and he will save us all. Allahu Akbar.

WooPeeA

Galvasean wrote: »

Oh hey, the latest After Hours census is in. Look at all those 'Catholics'...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055527172

I don't like this poll, there's no "I wasn't 'born' catholic" option. Not everyone comes from catholic family..

Goduznt Xzst

WooPeeA wrote: »

I don't like this poll, there's no "I wasn't 'born' catholic" option. Not everyone comes from catholic family..

Well its a poll for Catholics though. It's like going over to the LOST tv forum and requesting they add an option to their episode polls that has "I don't watch LOST"... what would be the point?

velocirafter

So what if its a waste of time, some of us have time to waste!!! If it makes me happier to have offically left the catholic church(which I haven't...yet) then thats all the justification thats needed.

Stercus Accidit

Surely the government takes the census as the indication of numbers of catholics in ireland, rather than the word of the church?

I still think it is sufficient to tick the appropriate atheist/non-believer box in the census if that is enough for you, but have every respect for those who wish to take it a step further and formally inform the church also, the idea that catholicism is an 'opt out' clause is enough to anger any athiest slapped with a baptism.

Valmont

Like I'm actually going to write to my archbishop and fill out some forms to exclude myself. I think people need to stop putting all their chips with the "oh but then they can't say they have 3million followers", that is bs, even is everyone here on this forum actually did that it wouldn't make a difference. What are you expecting to happen? The pope to look at his losses and pull the remaining priesthood from the country? No. Everyone in this country knows the reality, 3million "official" followers or not. The census is surely more reliable as Stercus said. Nothing will happen, you'll just get to show people that you were sad enough to actually write a letter to an archbishop.

I imagine that time is the best way to change the inflated membership numbers, as more of the current godless generation grow up and send their kids to the increasing numbers of educate together schools and hits the problem at the beginning, by not baptising them in the first place. I just really don't care that I was baptised tbh, it's not like a had a say.

Galvasean

My parents should have seen my atheism coming when I, as a baby, put up such a fight while being baptised.
Some have pointed at teething problems as the actal cause of my melancholy, but no, I say coincidance!