How much does an electrician know more than an electrical engineer?

crystalbrite

How much does an electrician know more than an electrical engineer? I was just woundering if a qualified electrical engineer would be able to do the job of an electrician. Since an electrical engineer learns everything about electricity you think they should be able to. What does an electrician learn that an electrical engineer dosn't?

breadmonkey

*Shudder*

mathew

have a look at the first (non ad) result in both cases...
Link
Link

:rolleyes:

Anima

No need to be rude in fairness.

DublinDilbert

crystalbrite wrote: »

How much does an electrician know more than an electrical engineer? I was just woundering if a qualified electrical engineer would be able to do the job of an electrician. Since an electrical engineer learns everything about electricity you think they should be able to. What does an electrician learn that an electrical engineer dosn't?

"Can open, worms everywhere!!!!"


I guess your asking is does the "average" electrician know more than the "average" electrical engineer. You'll find some electricians that know more than any engineer, you'll also find some engineers that know more than an electrician. Its too hard to say as the two disciplines are very different, although they overlap in many areas....

You'll get good and bad in each discipline. The same question is more often asked as the difference between an electronic/electrical technician and engineer. Some examples of where they might differ would be that your average technician will get one sample to work on the bench, where as your engineer should be thinking about designing it so every one you make will work ( whether you make one or a million ). When looking at problems engineers often go into the frequency domain, where as many techinicans wouldn't be too comfortable to do this... At the same time there are many technicians out there that are better than a lot of engineers.

crystalbrite

Well i was just wondering, for example, if the average electrical engineer would be able to wire a house?

They obviosly must be smarter on average since they went to college and i hear its meant to be a hard course so i cant see why an electrical engineer wouldnt be able to do what an electrician can do.

fishdog

+1 DublinDilbert

I am a qualified electrician and an electrical engineering student at present. I have worked with many experienced and talented engineers over the years, so I think I am "qualified" to answer this.

I think it is important to realise how different the roles of electrical engineer and electrician can be. Someone can be a fantastic electrical engineer and not be any good doing the work of an electrician (and vice versa). In general electricians work with their tools and engineers don’t. I worked in an engineering consultancy last summer and all of my time was spent at a desk or in meetings. It could not have been more different than my experience as an electrician!

Recently I was advising an electrical engineer with a PhD (lecturer) about how to do something electrically in his house. This is not because I know more than him, it is just that I have experience and training in an area that he does not. I would like to think I am a good electrician, but if I ever learn half as much as the engineer I helped knows I will be doing well.

I hope this helps.

mathew

crystalbrite wrote: »

Well i was just wondering, for example, if the average electrical engineer would be able to wire a house?

They obviosly must be smarter on average since they went to college and i hear its meant to be a hard course so i cant see why an electrical engineer wouldnt be able to do what an electrician can do.

electrician != electrical engineer.
An electrician is trained to wire a house. "smartness" doenst really come in to it. A neurosurgeon would probably be smarter than an electrician but couldnt wire a house.
Its really what your trained to do.
If you had a choice, I'd say get the electrician to do it because the chances are the electrician has more experience wiring a house. Would know the tricks and the regulations too..
While an electical engineer may well know the theory and have a fair idea, an electrcian would be more experienced.

If you need a power plant or electricity distribution network designed get on to the electrical engineer.

Armin_Tamzarian

crystalbrite wrote: »

I was just woundering if a qualified electrical engineer would be able to do the job of an electrician.

I'm sure they could, if they went and served a 4 year apprenticeship first.

crystalbrite

mathew wrote: »

electrician != electrical engineer.
An electrician is trained to wire a house. "smartness" doenst really come in to it. A neurosurgeon would probably be smarter than an electrician but couldnt wire a house.

Ya but id expect the neurosurgeon to be able to do the job of a nurse.

crystalbrite

fishdog wrote: »

+1 DublinDilbert

I am a qualified electrician and an electrical engineering student at present. I have worked with many experienced and talented engineers over the years, so I think I am "qualified" to answer this.

I think it is important to realise how different the roles of electrical engineer and electrician can be. Someone can be a fantastic electrical engineer and not be any good doing the work of an electrician (and vice versa). In general electricians work with their tools and engineers don’t. I worked in an engineering consultancy last summer and all of my time was spent at a desk or in meetings. It could not have been more different than my experience as an electrician!

Recently I was advising an electrical engineer with a PhD (lecturer) about how to do something electrically in his house. This is not because I know more than him, it is just that I have experience and training in an area that he does not. I would like to think I am a good electrician, but if I ever learn half as much as the engineer I helped knows I will be doing well.

I hope this helps.

Thanks, it did.

Armin_Tamzarian

crystalbrite wrote: »

Ya but id expect the neurosurgeon to be able to do the job of a nurse.

With the greatest of respect, that's a rather ignorant attitude.

AFAIK you now have to complete a 4 year degree to become a nurse.
What do you think they're studying, how to look nice and make beds?

Fair enough a qualified doctor would pick up quite a bit of what being a nurse entails from working closely with them, this doesn't mean they
could do their job.

It's just the same as how the guy overseeing a large construction project
probably couldn't lay block.

An Engineer may know alot more in relation to the theory side of things
but how are they going to manage to gland cables,
install steel conduit, trunking, tray, etc, etc.

mathew

crystalbrite wrote: »

Ya but id expect the neurosurgeon to be able to do the job of a nurse.

Again not really.. Theyed know all of the theory and probably be able to have a fairly good stab at it but the chances are the nurse, who had trained and practiced as a nurse, will do the job much better.

An electrical engineer will make a very good stab at the wiring of a house, but an electrician would know key things such as regulations regarding wiring in a house, tricks to neatly send a wire from A to B etc.

crystalbrite

mathew wrote: »

Again not really.. Theyed know all of the theory and probably be able to have a fairly good stab at it but the chances are the nurse, who had trained and practiced as a nurse, will do the job much better.

An electrical engineer will make a very good stab at the wiring of a house, but an electrician would know key things such as regulations regarding wiring in a house, tricks to neatly send a wire from A to B etc.

Ya i know what you mean. My point was that i dont think an electrical engineer would be able to do the job of an electrician just because hes smart, as you were saying about the neurosurgeon but because they are both trained in the same area.

mathew

crystalbrite wrote: »

Ya i know what you mean. My point was that i dont think an electrical engineer would be able to do the job of an electrician just because hes smart, as you were saying about the neurosurgeon but because they are both trained in the same area.

Theyre not really trained in the same area any more than a nurse and a surgeon are trained in the same area.
Unless an electrical engineer has trained as an electrician they wouldnt be able to do the job as well as an electrician. Theres a very big difference in what you learn training to be an electrician compared to what you learn studying engineering.

Graham_B18C

crystalbrite wrote: »

Ya i know what you mean. My point was that i dont think an electrical engineer would be able to do the job of an electrician just because hes smart, as you were saying about the neurosurgeon but because they are both trained in the same area.

They're the same field but very different jobs, Engineers do mostly design and some hands on stuff, Electricians do all hands on stuff and very little design (None of the sparks I work with do any design).

To be honest an Engineer would probably know the thoery of how to wire a house but wouldn't be able to do it as efficiantly or as neatly as a qualified and expierenced Electrician.

EDIT: And to answer the question at the top of the thread, How much does a Sparks know more, they can't be compaired really, As an apprentice Electricians learn how to use tools properly, and as mentioned earlier do tray, trunking, couduit and how to terminate different types of cable, what types of cable would be needed for different jobs, then in the later phases they'd touch off some of the science stuff but it wouldn't be as in depth as doing a 4 year degree in engineering.

An engineer would learn how to plan out electrical installations, they'd learn the science part of electricity, but they wouldn't be conserned with how the sockets/ lights/ switches are terminated. I done electrical eng for two years and I never wired a plug!

Offy

I have both vocational and academic qualifications. A trade will teach you how to do the job, college will teach you how the job should be done. A spark will wire a house in a fraction of the time an engineer will simply because thats what their trained to do where as an engineer will know the theory of how to wire a house but never trains with the tools required to wire a house. Sparks train and work with the actual materials, engineers work with the theory.
To put a bit more perspective on it, an engineer will train with domestic electricity and a whole lot more. Engineering is a lot of maths, sparks dont really need much maths. Its nothing to do with intelligence, if an engineer gets it wrong a spark has to fix the mistake and get it right, doesnt happen the other way.
I have thousands of euros of tools that I will never use as an engineer, theres no need for them. I spend most of the day in front of a pc working out how much time is needed for a circuit breaker to trip before someone get electrocuted, no need for any tools to do that but equally there no need for a spark to know how to stop electrical contacts from welding. There different like the difference between a butcher and a farmer or a lumberjack and a cabinet-maker.

dan_d

It's definitely mainly to do with training, but put it this way..if you're on site and you've got teams of electricians working from drawings...they install what's on the drawing, the electrical engineer will draw the drawings. That's kind of simplistic but it's the gist of it. Anymore than a civil engineer knows more or less than a carpenter or blocklayer or steel fixer, all of whom build what the civil engineer designs.It also has a lot to do with experience.

A Primal Nut

crystalbrite wrote: »

Well i was just wondering, for example, if the average electrical engineer would be able to wire a house?

No

They obviosly must be smarter on average since they went to college and i hear its meant to be a hard course so i cant see why an electrical engineer wouldnt be able to do what an electrician can do.

Its nothing to do with how smart somebody is. Someone could have a degree in theoretical physics it doesn't make them better at beauty therapy. Its nothing to do with intelligence its to do with what you study. You could be the most intelligent person in the world but if you have never learned how to wire a house you won't be able to do it.

For what its worth, those who have an electrical engineering degree might have a slight advantage if they ever tried to learn how to wire a house. An engineer might learn how to make sure generators produce the right power at the right voltage at the right frequency at all times and ensure stability throughout the grid. This is done through Maths, knowledge of circuit theory and computer simulation. Its a completely different skill to wiring a house. Like comparing plastering with architecture.

up them Schteps

I'm a 3rd year elec eng student and I was told the difference the other day by a mate who is a sparks.

If you consider the work a sparks does, wiring a house, installing breakers etc, that work is under the scope of an engineer. By this I mean, in network analysis a house may just represent an impedence if even considered. The installing and wiring is a completly different job. Its not a case of 'knowing more' its just a different job that happens to have some similarities.

Hogzy

up them Schteps wrote: »

I'm a 3rd year elec eng student and I was told the difference the other day by a mate who is a sparks.

If you consider the work a sparks does, wiring a house, installing breakers etc, that work is under the scope of an engineer. By this I mean, in network analysis a house may just represent an impedence if even considered. The installing and wiring is a completly different job. Its not a case of 'knowing more' its just a different job that happens to have some similarities.

Like a taxi driver and a mechanic?

Shiny

Hogzy wrote: »

Like a taxi driver and a mechanic?

No.

You could have at least said an automotive engineer and a mechanic.

I finished Electronic (not Electrical) engineering last year and wouldn't
have a clue how to wire a house. In fact I would probably end up
electrocuting myself. I could probably make a stab at it as said above
but the house would probably burn down due to bad wiring.:rolleyes:

crystalbrite

So basically coming out of an engineering degree you'll have no practical experience at all. It'll just be all theory. Thats pretty lame. Like what if you come up with some amazing idea, yere saying that all you'll be able to plan it out and everything but not make it. You'll have to get someone else to do it.

What if you want to be able to do both, what should you do? Go to college and FAS?

2011

So basically coming out of an engineering degree you'll have no practical experience at all

At wiring houses? No that is not what engineers do, it is what electricians do.

The practical experience engineers would get when students would be from work placement. This would often be as part of their degree.

all you'll be able to plan it out

...and test, redesign it and document it. That is the type of thing engineers do. Tradesmen, fitters etc. build it!

crystalbrite

2011 wrote: »

At wiring houses? No that is not what engineers do, it is what electricians do.

The practical experience engineers would get when students would be from work placement. This would often be as part of their degree.


...and test, redesign it and document it. That is the type of thing engineers do. Tradesmen, fitters etc. build it!

And what about, for example Tony Stark, you know Ironman. He was able to design and build his own suit. Or does crazy stuff like that only happen in comic books and movies:D

DublinDilbert

crystalbrite wrote: »

So basically coming out of an engineering degree you'll have no practical experience at all. It'll just be all theory. Thats pretty lame. Like what if you come up with some amazing idea, yere saying that all you'll be able to plan it out and everything but not make it.

No body said engineers don't do practical work. In fact every good engineer loves a challenge and should have no problem rolling up his sleeves when required. Also a good engineer will be well capable of getting things working / built.

If a person is inventive & practical they will be well capable of developing different things be they an engineer or electrician.

Beno

On the topic of explaining the point of your Degree. What is the best way to explain that studying Mechanical Engineering doesn't mean that i am going to be a mechanic.
Some of my family is still confused what my degree actually is. Every time i try to explain it they seem to get lost and change subject.

Kareir

Beno wrote: »

On the topic of explaining the point of your Degree. What is the best way to explain that studying Mechanical Engineering doesn't mean that i am going to be a mechanic.
Some of my family is still confused what my degree actually is. Every time i try to explain it they seem to get lost and change subject.

Yeah, in some places, the cross-over is huge. Driving through New Zealand a while ago, there's "Auto Parts and Engineering" everywhere. Of course, it rarely turns out to be actual engineers, it's mechanics.

I guess the best way to explain it would give some example of what you do? or vaguely do? like " i design a car engine, then a mechanic builds it?" or "an architect for stuff that moves" might work? :P


_Kar

Cake Man

An electrical engineer wouldn't exactly be able to do everything an electrician could do. Elec engineer could branch out more into different areas also, electrician couldn't do much else.

Stoner

1st There are many electrical eng degrees out there none of which cover installation. There is only one standards based apprenticeship

The practical side of an electrical apprenticeship is not covered for degree courses to any extent worth mentioning.

Back in the day I used the Electrical Craft Principles books to study for semester one exams in first year, they were good books, but useless after that.

There is no comparison between the two with respect to technical issues IMHO.
Apprentices have no language or business studies so they don't cover the management side of things.

Engineers on the other hand have little or no practical training, the apprenticeship training on site offers a vast amount of experience and exposure to best and worst practice, good engineers listen to good electricians and work out the best way to do the job.

Someone with both qualifications is in a great position, most electrical engineers who think that they can do the job of an electrician don't know what they are talking about are are generally at the lower end of the scale IMO.

Good engineers and electricians know their role and respect the position of the other.
On a final confusing note

I've never met an engineer whom I considered great who thought he/she could do the job of an electrician.

However I've met plenty of great electricians who think they would be great engineers

The gap between a good and bad trades person and a good and bad engineer is huge IMO so yes I'm sure a good electrician could do the same job as a bad engineer, and a good engineer could do the job of a bad electrician.

Red Alert

Having done an EE degree in UCD, there's far too little practical skills taught in the courses to make anyone an electrician - unless they'd an outside interest. Out of a class of roughly 35, I'd say three people were able to solder for example (including me). I'd feel perfectly confident doing non-mains stuff like wiring a PA, intercom or CCTV system but I'd say that's more down to my own interest than anything I learned in college.

jamiemcg85

crystalbrite wrote: »

How much does an electrician know more than an electrical engineer? I was just woundering if a qualified electrical engineer would be able to do the job of an electrician. Since an electrical engineer learns everything about electricity you think they should be able to. What does an electrician learn that an electrical engineer dosn't?

An electrician has the praticle experience as well as the basic theory to electricity. An engineer has only the advanced theory behind electricity.

Fact of the matter is that an engineer is NOT certified to make as much as one electrical connection in any given installation. Your standard electrician is certified to work with a supply of up to a 1,000V. Any more than that they would need to be trained for a higher supply rating e.g in the ESB. Which would supply the training and certs to their electricians. The ONLY way an engineer can install an electrical application is to have completed a standard based apprenticeship with FAS. So that person is an electrician and an engineer... Hence they are two different job titles, which both rely equally on eachother. End of!!

Dublinstiofán

Theres a clause in the code of ethics to stop engineers/electricians from pissing in somebody elses' pool if theyre not qualified to do so.

" Members shall accept and perform only work for which they are qualified and competent to undertake and shall obtain whatever advice and assistance is necessary to discharge this responsibility"

I think its pretty clear. If you need an electrician get one. If you need an engineer get one.

If your an engineer and you wire a house up and don't know what your doing your in breach on the code of ethics and your royaly screwed if it burns down.

shanejunkin

Anima wrote: »

No need to be rude in fairness.

It was funny though... lighthearted I thought?

shanejunkin

crystalbrite wrote: »

So basically coming out of an engineering degree you'll have no practical experience at all. It'll just be all theory. Thats pretty lame. Like what if you come up with some amazing idea, yere saying that all you'll be able to plan it out and everything but not make it. You'll have to get someone else to do it.

What if you want to be able to do both, what should you do? Go to college and FAS?

If you want to do both, study both! Do an apprenticship, work for a few years and then do a degree.

There's nothing "lame" about being able to design something and not having the skills to build it efficently. They're different skills. If one designs something well he/she can outsource the build to someone else and you end up (hopefully) with a well designed (assuming you know what you're doing) and a well built system (assuming the guys you outsourced to know what they're doing). What's lame about that? You're still a very important part of the process/team, as are the builders of the system...

Significant projects are naturally large. So, to think that to be skilled is to do everything, like fund, design, build, manufacture and market is not really that relelvent.

Is a novelist p1ssed off that he/she didn't bind every one of the books that were sold? I doubt the printers feel sick at the thoughts of binding someone elses book either!!!

shanejunkin

Stoner wrote: »

1st There are many electrical eng degrees out there none of which cover installation. There is only one standards based apprenticeship

The practical side of an electrical apprenticeship is not covered for degree courses to any extent worth mentioning.

Back in the day I used the Electrical Craft Principles books to study for semester one exams in first year, they were good books, but useless after that.

There is no comparison between the two with respect to technical issues IMHO.
Apprentices have no language or business studies so they don't cover the management side of things.

Engineers on the other hand have little or no practical training, the apprenticeship training on site offers a vast amount of experience and exposure to best and worst practice, good engineers listen to good electricians and work out the best way to do the job.

Someone with both qualifications is in a great position, most electrical engineers who think that they can do the job of an electrician don't know what they are talking about are are generally at the lower end of the scale IMO.

Good engineers and electricians know their role and respect the position of the other.
On a final confusing note

I've never met an engineer whom I considered great who thought he/she could do the job of an electrician.

However I've met plenty of great electricians who think they would be great engineers

The gap between a good and bad trades person and a good and bad engineer is huge IMO so yes I'm sure a good electrician could do the same job as a bad engineer, and a good engineer could do the job of a bad electrician.

You're clarification that a good engineers and electricians, or technicians I suppose, respect the position of the other is excellent. That's extremely valid. The technician who wants to slag off the engineer because he or she is not tidy with a wiring job or installation probably is not much of a technician. Similarily, an engineer who wants demonstrate installations or wiring techniques to a technician probably is not much of an engineer.

We've an "engineer" like that working with us, he's useless, can't do anything. The techs patronisingly nicknamed him "Brunel". Hilarious, I thought.

carolok

An electrician installs, maintains and fixes electrical installations. a electrical engineer designs systems, transmission networks and generations systems. iam a electrician who did a degree in electrical engineering after qualifying. they are not the same but they are closely liked, i now design wiring systems for hotels and hospitels ect, and to be honest if i wasnt a spark first i think i woundnt beable to desight the best system possible. an electrican is not more qualified then an electrical engenere but an electrical engener is not more qualified then an electrican, 2 different profficeans, 2 different carreres just in the same field.

drunken_munky52

Engineers understand the scientific and technical background of electricity. They use maths to solve problems and develop new systems.

Electricians do what the engineers tell them. They are troubleshooters, solving problems by trying one thing before moving on to the next.

carolok

drunken_munky52 wrote: »

Engineers understand the scientific and technical background of electricity. They use maths to solve problems and develop new systems.

Electricians do what the engineers tell them. They are troubleshooters, solving problems by trying one thing before moving on to the next.

true!