The new Digiweb satellite service

Magnet: Rory

This looks pretty impressive (for a satallite service). Does anyone have any experience of the package so far?

http://www.digiweb.ie/home/satellite/

CutzEr

They throttle you if you use over 2GB a month?

Magnet: Rory

CutzEr wrote: »

They throttle you if you use over 2GB a month?

remember its a sat service......they genuinely have to pay top dollar for the space.

watty

And unlike Mobile Phone companies it's not on a 500:1 cross subsidy from the voice calls.

Sean55

They say no phone calls so you have to keep and pay for your phone line as well.

Magnet: Rory

Sean55 wrote: »

They say no phone calls so you have to keep and pay for your phone line as well.

Well I wouldn't expect a sat service to support a phone line, I would imagine the lag to be high for regular conversation.

watty

Use a mobile. Can work out 10 Euro a month cheaper than just eircom line rental including all your calls.

I'm surprised Digiweb hasn't done an MVNO deal yet and doing a Mobile phone bundle with Satellite.

netwhizkid

watty wrote: »

Use a mobile. Can work out 10 Euro a month cheaper than just eircom line rental including all your calls.

I'm surprised Digiweb hasn't done an MVNO deal yet and doing a Mobile phone bundle with Satellite.

Yes it would make since but the few customer they would have would probably not justify the costs setting up a MVNO unless the sold it on to their other broadband platform customers such as Metro. It would certainly be a better plan VOIP on satellite which is like a two way radio... over:pac:

marsbars

Must say I had this service for all of 6 weeks - found it terrible. Constant freezing, extremely slow and constantly losing the service - in my opinion, because of the weather/cloud cover. Mentioned this to Digiweb support and they replied it might be and that "it's the nature of satellite broadband". This despite their website claiming satellite BB will be available 99.5% of the time, yet mine was down for about half the time, and during June/July!

Have now cancelled contract - found their customer service even worse. Was with SKYDSL before - they were no great shakes, but far ahead of Digiweb's satellite offering.

watty

Sounds like the dish was too small.

vsat

Could also be badly installed, wrong cable, poor installation team ?

marsbars

I would probably side with the poor installation theory - or simply the service may actually be too sensitive to weather conditions? I say this because another neighbour down the road also had the same issues - although the installation was completed by the same team on the same morning! The size of the dish is a sight to behold - it is massive, couldn't see the wall supporting a bigger one.

Either way, their customer service was so poor - basically ignored me - I am delighted to have left them. Luckily, Eircom became available just after I left so it had a happy ending(ish!). Left with a big bill from the deal - am checking out my rights regarding that though, can't see why I have to suffer the loss (almost a grand) for a service that did not work, contract or not.

Dr. Nick

Will be going down the satellite road in the coming months. What other (viable) options do i have apart from digiweb?

watty

About 6 less well supported, less expert companies. They are the only major Irish ISP installing direct for users. Maybe 2nd biggest retailer in Europe.


If it's sensisitive to weather then either it needs better alignment or a larger dish. If it's aligned correctly then a bigger dish always improves rain margin. The larger the dish, though the more steady the mount must be and the more accurate the alignment must be.

vsat there does great installs, but I don't think currently for Digiweb.

The Kasat bird if successful launch in 2010 will allow x3 speed on a 1/2 size dish.

Dr. Nick

Thanks Watty. Size of dish won't be an issue as we're out in the country (obviously) with a bit of land around the house. But the steadiness might be an issue, was thinkinking of putting it on a pole, would look unsightly on the house. Do you know what direction the dish needs to point?

2.4/4gb sort of defeats the purpose as well a bit..........might be better off with o2, or maybe keeping both, €60/month and no phoneline?

vsat

Correct

Dr. Nick

vsat wrote: »

Correct

sorry vsat, is that in response to my last post :)

board member

Magnet (Rory) wrote: »

Well I wouldn't expect a sat service to support a phone line, I would imagine the lag to be high for regular conversation.

The Lag? are you referring to the jacket around my immersion heater?

VoIP works just fine over satellite with the right tweaks, a large dish and a 3watt BUC.

board member

watty wrote: »

About 6 less well supported, less expert companies. They are the only major Irish ISP installing direct for users. Maybe 2nd biggest retailer in Europe.


If it's sensisitive to weather then either it needs better alignment or a larger dish. If it's aligned correctly then a bigger dish always improves rain margin. The larger the dish, though the more steady the mount must be and the more accurate the alignment must be.

vsat there does great installs, but I don't think currently for Digiweb.

The Kasat bird if successful launch in 2010 will allow x3 speed on a 1/2 size dish.

What about that crowd in Mullingar. From what I hear digiweb are poor on customer service. Anyone know what equipment they use, dish BUC etc.?

watty

board member wrote: »

The Lag? are you referring to the jacket around my immersion heater?

VoIP works just fine over satellite with the right tweaks, a large dish and a 3watt BUC.

A bit like two way radio though. Especially if the other party is on satellite too.

Astra2Connect is only 0.5W BUC (integrated LAN/BUC and Feed in a single LNBF style on steroids) so to be avoided. The beam is not great south west of Sligo to Waterford. Limited upload speed. Digiweb doesn't sell it.

Digiweb does Gilat, iDirect and ViaSat "Tooway" (On Ku) based VSAT, maybe something else too. What you get depends on what you pay and what sort of service you need. I think 2W and 4W BUC and 70cm to 1.2m dishes depending on service, install cost and location. If you want rock solid rain performance and option to upgrade speed just with a phone call/email pay extra for a 4W BUC and 1.2m dish.

I'd be surprised if Digiweb is poorer CS than other sat suppliers in Ireland as they are the only one that's a real National ISP, has an Irish NOC 24x7 and Data Centres.

I'm sure some people have had bad experiences. You need to consider how likely that is on a general basis for your own needs.

board member

watty wrote: »

A bit like two way radio though. Especially if the other party is on satellite too.

Astra2Connect is only 0.5W BUC (integrated LAN/BUC and Feed in a single LNBF style on steroids) so to be avoided. The beam is not great south west of Sligo to Waterford. Limited upload speed. Digiweb doesn't sell it.

Digiweb does Gilat, iDirect and ViaSat "Tooway" (On Ku) based VSAT, maybe something else too. What you get depends on what you pay and what sort of service you need. I think 2W and 4W BUC and 70cm to 1.2m dishes depending on service, install cost and location. If you want rock solid rain performance and option to upgrade speed just with a phone call/email pay extra for a 4W BUC and 1.2m dish.

I'd be surprised if Digiweb is poorer CS than other sat suppliers in Ireland as they are the only one that's a real National ISP, has an Irish NOC 24x7 and Data Centres.

I'm sure some people have had bad experiences. You need to consider how likely that is on a general basis for your own needs.

Honestly I have little experience with digiweb but heard bad reports from enough of their customers to be suspicious.
We'll see how 3 fare when they jump onto the vsat bandwagon. They have everything in place for good CS, 24/7 tech support etc. however zero experience in broadband on a whole. I noticed digiweb have a .74M dish for the gilat service, looks like a 2 watt buc.

Sponge Bob

board member wrote: »

We'll see how 3 fare when they jump onto the vsat bandwagon. They have everything in place for good CS,

This cannot be for real :eek:

Thank you for shilling what is probably the worst customer service of any major irish telco .

board member

Sponge Bob wrote: »

This cannot be for real :eek:

Thank you for shilling what is probably the worst customer service of any major irish telco .

I said they have everything in place, I did not say they were proven. If they prove to be bad they will just continue a strong Irish telco tradition.

watty

@board member

No, they have installed different size dishes for Gilat. approx 0.7 to 1.2 and 2W or 4W BUC.

In terms of boards, there are hardly any bad CS reports of Digiweb compared with MANY reports on other ISPs. You claim little experience yet suggest Digiweb is especially poor for CS?

Avanti (the 3 supplier) is very small fry in the Satworld. 3 have no experience at all with install/sell/manage/CS of Satellite and all their CS is in Asia.

board member

Avanti are not the 3 supplier.

board member

watty wrote: »

@board member

In terms of boards, there are hardly any bad CS reports of Digiweb compared with MANY reports on other ISPs. You claim little experience yet suggest Digiweb is especially poor for CS?

My second hand knowledge of digiweb's poor service is not from boards but from dealing with their customers on a professional level. You seem to know a lot about them watty, why didn't they step into Avanti's shoes after they tried to scam our government?

watty

If Avanti are not at present Three's supplier that's only because Avanti's new Satellite isn't launched yet. No doubt they are buying something temporarily. I'd like to know who it is and what Satellite they are using. I read a report of 1m dish being offered.

The Government took the cheapest NBS tender. The Government didn't arrange the satellite service, that was up to each prospective supplier to organise.

I don't know what you mean in relation to Avanti trying to Scam the Government. Do tell.

board member

watty wrote: »

If Avanti are not at present Three's supplier that's only because Avanti's new Satellite isn't launched yet. No doubt they are buying something temporarily. I'd like to know who it is and what Satellite they are using. I read a report of 1m dish being offered.

The Government took the cheapest NBS tender. The Government didn't arrange the satellite service, that was up to each prospective supplier to organise.

I don't know what you mean in relation to Avanti trying to Scam the Government. Do tell.

I have also heard that someone is installing 1 meter dishes for the NBS.
We are well into the NBS now and Avanti have yet to deliver, far from it I understand. The attempted scam would be avanti making promises they cannot deliver on. Are customers outside the range of 3's network supposed to wait a year+ for Avanti to get their act together. Surely they should officially get the boot and digiweb or similar step in to provide minimum NBS spec. to these unfortunates...

Sponge Bob

Strictly speaking Avanti have a deal with 3 not with the government . 3 could be accused of scamming the government rather than Avanti but the government knows pefectly well that VSAT is snakeoil .....even if it is launched .

The temporary transponder ( IIRC) is on an Inmarsat and will be hideously congested long before Avanti launch in Q2 2010 and commission in Q3 2010 .

watty

It was up to the vendors to do due diligence.

I and/or a colleague spoke to many Satellite companies over the years. My colleague has managed a Sat hub service.

It was evident to the dog in the street last year that Avanti was practically giving away capacity on Hylass1 because:

• Avanti have no track record as an Operator, only a small reseller of rented transponder space.
  
• Hylass1 is experiment mostly financed by ESA. Unlike WildBlue (in operation) and Kasat (Eutelsat) commercial huge capacity satellites.
  
• The launch was originally to be on Falcon9, which still has never flown. Only last month that deal was cancelled and the Satellite is queued with Ariane Space.
  
• The Satellite was not even built. As recent as July it was still not finished (3 Service was supposed to be from June 2009).

It was thus evident that there was no definite date for start of Hylass1 service, no assurance it would be a successful launch and no assurance that Avanti can manage the Earth Station(s)/Hub. No doubt Three (not our Government) choose it since it was at least 1/2 price or less. There was space on IS907 (used by Irish Schools) which has a decent beam/dish size, but I think that's gone. Kasat from Viasat/Eutelsat was not an NBS option either as it was not due till late 2009 or in 2010 at the time. It now looks like Kasat will be in service before Hylass1.

Irish Schools / Smart / Digiweb: Did have free space at time NBS awarded:

http://www.lyngsat.com/intel907.html

Avanti current rented Transponder at time NBS awarded (and now):

http://www.lyngsat.com/intel903.html
Scroll halfway down
11027, 11464 and 11473 all vertical. This is for Existing Avanti customers and even if empty might not meet contention figures for total NBS satellite requirements.
Dish size is 1.2m at least in South East. I'm informed that as you go northwest the size rises through 1.4m to 1.8m or 2m to have upload in rain.

I really hope that is NOT what Three are using. Please someone tell me Three are using some other service till/if Hylass1 is on air?

board member

watty wrote: »

I really hope that is NOT what Three are using. Please someone tell me Three are using some other service till/if Hylass1 is on air?

Insightful reading as ever watty. They are using someone in the interim, using a 1 meter dish as we have heard.

cgarvey

boadr member, do you not think it would be fair to disclose your interests here? You clearly have some ties with the industry, and given that you're dissing companies, and talking up others, I think it's only fair you disclose your interests.

board member

cgarvey wrote: »

boadr member, do you not think it would be fair to disclose your interests here? You clearly have some ties with the industry, and given that you're dissing companies, and talking up others, I think it's only fair you disclose your interests.

Like all following this thread my interest lies with the subject. I work with wireless and satellite internet. I have come across digiweb's product, I have commented on it and asked questions about other providers. I am not dissing or talking up anyone, I have not ties with any telco mentioned. What is your interest?

watty

Digiweb has loads of different products.

The Satellite product on their website is different from the one there 9 months ago, I think.

watty

A little bird tells me Three /Avanti are using this (publically available on Lyngsat)




here http://www.lyngsat.com/intel903.html
scroll near bottom 1/3rd of page. "Avanti"

Transponder 61 is at least some current NBS installs for Three
Avanti also has two parts of 64 and part of 68

All fairly small chunks.

The 85cm dish will be using DVB-s2 ACM, so effective contention will appear to rise sharply when more customers are added and it rains on all of Ireland (there is then about 1/10th or less capacity using 85cm dish). Clear Skies, TP61 would support about 400 users at 40:1 contention on 1Mbps package. At the minute with few new customers the speed will still be OK in the rain due to ACM. If they get 400 on it, expect under 200kbps in the rain downlink and under 20kbps uplink. At the minute it will be fine in the rain.

ACM is better suited to a beam / customer base over a wider area such that it's never raining on all of it at once. I've monitored the Irish Met office Rain Radar, and we frequently have rain on more than 75% and often almost 100%, The bits that need NBS get the most rain. So unless at least half the customers of each Avanti transponder are in Spain, NBS customers will eventually get slow speeds.

IMO 85cm is fine if you never have more than about 100 customers on the transponder. In the long term it seems too small.

cgarvey

board member wrote: »

What is your interest?

The closest thing I can think of, to a vested interest, is the link in my signature (I'm a member of IrelandOffline). Unlike you, however, I don't work for any ISP or telco. My interest is really to ensure that there's clear and objective information being given here. You don't fit in to that category.

For clarification, the company, I think, you're talking up is Three Ireland, and the company you're dissing is Digiweb.

Dr. Nick

So, getting back on topic - is the digiweb satellite package a worthwhile alternative to the unpreditability of mobile internet?

Downside is the poor GB monthly download - is the upside a decent predictable speed?

Dr. Nick

Someone told me that the digiweb traffic isn't monitored after 6pm as it's mainly business use. Anyone else hear this? It would be the clicher for me if true....

Fuzzy Clam

Dr. Nick wrote: »

Someone told me that the digiweb traffic isn't monitored after 6pm as it's mainly business use. Anyone else hear this? It would be the clicher for me if true....

Unlikely to be true. That would imply that there is no off peak cap!

More like that if they throttle for going over the cap, they only do it during the day. Speeds return off peak.

Dr. Nick

I assume regular satellite cabling x2? I'm building at the moment, and want to leave the option open, same direction as Sky dish?

vsat

depends on cable length from dish to IDU.
Suggest min CT100 or TX 100 only,

Dr. Nick

vsat wrote: »

depends on cable length from dish to IDU.
Suggest min CT100 or TX 100 only,

Cheers. 10-12m max I reckon.

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

Dr. Nick

Thanks condi - that's great information.

Wonder if the allowance will continue to increase with more take-up.....

Also wonder what the TV content is!

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

Sean55

Thanks Condi.

Nice to get a straightforward post on this subject.

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

board member

Let us know how it goes Condi. If Digiweb are providing will they change your equipment?

pizzahead77

Satellite Broadband Ireland announced a deal with 3 today

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/article/14263/comms/30-new-jobs-for-satellite-broadband-ireland-after-nbs-deal-with-3

godskitchen

pizzahead77 wrote: »

Satellite Broadband Ireland announced a deal with 3 today

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/article/14263/comms/30-new-jobs-for-satellite-broadband-ireland-after-nbs-deal-with-3

“This goes to show that the National Broadband Scheme has brought new smart jobs to Mullingar, and it will continue to bring these jobs to other parts of the country as it progresses,” said Communications Minister Eamon Ryan TD.

The Minister added that “broadband is the delivery mechanism for a smart, green future.”

I feel sick after reading that, really I do. What a load of crap. All he needed to add there was a few more buzz words like "going forward" and "best practice"

Utterly meaningless!

yuloni

This post has been deleted.