soccer ban again yay!

mayordenis

Righto posted this in feedback in error - apologies here is a haphazard quote of all the thread thus far

mayordenis wrote: »

right 100% banned for being on the other side of an argument with a mod on this one.
He calls a player a sham, I say there is only one sham on the thread (BTW calling players names is against the forum charter, so he can directly say it about someone, and I can't indirectly allude to a shambolic argument being made to back something up)
after much too'ing and fro'ing I said he was a joker, as in a joker a kidder, and I've been given a 7 day ban.

I'm so sorry but this is further evidence that my joker statement held alot of weight.

Xavi6 wrote: »

Have you PM'd the mod in question for a discussion?

Oh that's right, you're in the middle of that, yet felt this was immediately necessary. :rolleyes:

Did you PM the other mods as suggested for another opinion? Of course not.

After this I won't be responding to any more of your PMs.

/awaits pitchforks

mayordenis wrote: »

Yes I am in the discussion with you.
Yes I have already PM'd ever other mod let me just get something to show that for you.


27-03-2009 Banned again
18:44 Dub13, GuanYin, LuckyLloyd, RuggieBear, Thanx 4 The Fish, therecklessone

time and the mods there. Ok? Great.

Nerin wrote: »

This should be in helpdesk

Xavi6 wrote: »

So what the fuck is the point of this thread then?

mayordenis wrote: »

well as pointed out above It's in the wrong place, and I have an argument to get back to with a certain blinkered Man City and Barca fan.

edit - if this could be moved that would be delicious.

edit - sorry if the point was clear enough Xabi it's because I would rather be unbanned. Alright? I know it's crazy, but that's what I would like. with boards modding being something they do when they have time I would like Access to the forum, so if this thread can help with that quicker (might of if not for my forum mistake) then I'm going to that.
I tried to talk to you in PM's why should I leave it with that. Like you said you made your decision and will stand over it. I disagree, I don't have to accept your opinion.

Xavi6 wrote: »

I made a decision and I'll stick by it. If the other soccer mods decide it was the wrong one and overrule me then coolio.

Right now it's 3am my time and seeing as there's no other soccer mods currently about to arbitrate them I'm off to bed.

GuanYin

We reviewed your ban and had reversed it.

Your response was to send a gloating PM to the mod who originally banned you and another PM where you made insulting comments about me.

As such, you have been issued with a 6 month ban from soccer.

I am happy to make all available correspondence available to SMODS.

mayordenis

lets have some fairness here
I tried not to drag PRIVATE messages between me and the mod into this becasue it would of looked bad on him - but if that's what you want fine

Yes I am.

Look, you came steaming into the thread aggressively attacking two posters. Do you think that's good for the harmony of a thread? FFS, if other people adopt that sort of crap then threads get closed.

Then again, it seems no one can EVER say anything against Liverpool. I ask this as a general question - why do you think so many Liverpool match day threads get closed? IMO because of reactions like yours (not saying it's just you, or has been you, btw) to anything negative about the club and I'm not standing for it.

No thread on this forum should have to be locked by aggressive posters, and I feel that's where this latest one was headed.

And you should be man enough to discuss it with and the mods privately instead of running straight to Feedback crying like a little bitch.

Good luck

this was the kinda abuse I was taking from him - And you honestly want me to just take that??
this is really beyond belief.

mayordenis

This is unreal actually - 6 motnhs because I get abuse from a mod - and am just asked to take it you, I wrote this message to Xabi6 btw - this is the gloating and remember the ****e I took above

humble pie,
you abused your powers, you acted really smug,
you started calling me a bitch, harping on about me making a thread complaing,
I was proved right in the end. I don't get why you decided you needed to ban me a little power surge or something man, but it was really not cool, and really uncalled for.

GuanYin

May I publish the other PMs and posts by you?

mayordenis

You absolutely can.
I would urge everyone to consider that my original ban was over turned. That I did take considerable abuse from Xabi and after being proven that he was in wrong it was still thrown in my face that it was still somehow my fault.

Xavi6

Firstly, are you spelling my username wrong on purpose? I'd appreciate the courtesy of you at least getting the four letter word correct.

Ok, there was problem. You broke a forum charter role of personal abuse (calling somone a 'joker' is akin to calling them 'an idiot' imo). I banned you for it. However, after a discussion with my fellow mods, the ban was deemed too harsh so it was downgraded to a yellow card. I had absolutely zero issue with that.

Despite the outcome coming back in YOUR favour you decided to send me a gloating PM (titled with a smiley), which you didn't publish above by the way, -

mayordenis wrote:

aaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww yea.
tastes good yes?

That is complete flaming of the highest order and was totally unprovoked. I took the PM to my fellow soccer mods and the Cat mod and the decision was made to ban you based on that.


Now to deal with all this 'abuse' you took from me. You posted two PMs and the only thing I said towards you was that you ran to Feedback like a little bitch.

Now the circumstances of that comment are based on the fact that rather than wait for a response from myself or the other Soccer mods, you decided to air the laundry in public for all to see, as if to make an example of me.

IMO I have every right to be annoyed when, mid conversation with me, you head off to post a thread on it. Why bother even engaging in the PM discussion if you were going public with it?


Overall your behaviour was childish and petty, particularly when the issue was resolved. You can say what you want about me, I banned you for a legitimate rule breach, but at least I admitted I was wrong and the ban overturned.

Why was that not good enough for you? Why did you send the smug PM?

BuffyBot

mayordenis - I think the bigger issue here is that you responded in a way that was only likely to inflame the circumstance further. Whether or not the soccer mods took the correct action has now become a secondary issue because you decided to take an action that "sank" to the level you percieved them to be at.

If a user on your forum did that to you, I can imagine you'ld be annoyed to. There is no reason the soccer mods would be any different. The way you reacted to this *was* your fault. You could have taken any moral highground that there is here by going "fair enough, yellow card it is". You didn't do that.

As a collective, they've reconsidered the original ban, which I think was the correct course of action. Now because you reacted in such a way, they've imposed a much greater penalty. Personally, I think it's a little harsh, but I can understand why they've taken the step they have considering your previous history.

I think you need to think about your actions here, and perhaps if you come to a realisation about what you did, you can pitch an acceptable solution to the Soccer mods.

mayordenis

BuffyBot wrote: »

mayordenis - I think the bigger issue here is that you responded in a way that was only likely to inflame the circumstance further. Whether or not the soccer mods took the correct action has now become a secondary issue because you decided to take an action that "sank" to the level you percieved them to be at.

If a user on your forum did that to you, I can imagine you'ld be annoyed to. There is no reason the soccer mods would be any different. The way you reacted to this *was* your fault. You could have taken any moral highground that there is here by going "fair enough, yellow card it is". You didn't do that.

As a collective, they've reconsidered the original ban, which I think was the correct course of action. Now because you reacted in such a way, they've imposed a much greater penalty. Personally, I think it's a little harsh, but I can understand why they've taken the step they have considering your previous history.

I think you need to think about your actions here, and perhaps if you come to a realisation about what you did, you can pitch an acceptable solution to the Soccer mods.

I'm not accepting that I'm afraid although I do appreciate the input - He called me a bitch but yet nobody seems to care about that at all? And when I was vindicated I was still being made out to be the one in the wrong, if you can't see that then maybe there is something wrong with me. Because it's so blatant, Xavi sorry about spelling your name wrong, it was something I was doing on purpose to goad you. I though what will annoy him? I'll spell his name wrong slightly, the way I spell the word when I prenounce it. Really sorry about that.

Do you not feel that calling me a bitch? Going on a rant about liverpool fans was going to irk me? like this is a sham I'm afraid I can't accept wrong doing until someone decides to speak like a normal person to me - instead of laying all the blame squarely with me, Xavi6 is allowed to continue modding after banning someone in the wrong, calling them a bitch through PM, and yes I did absolutely gloat, and I feel I had every right to do so.

Can anyone at all see this from my perspective?
Even when I sent a message to Guanyin about something like "how the process going so?" I was given back a reply that was basically telling me to shut up and wait - If you had of just said "it'll take some time" I wouldn't of got pissed off at all - but from the beginning as far as I can see the mods were more or less trying to get a rise out of me. I hope an Smod will consider having a good look at this, because I really don't believe any conclusion bar me being in the right will be achieved.

mayordenis

BuffyBot wrote: »

I think you need to think about your actions here, and perhaps if you come to a realisation about what you did, you can pitch an acceptable solution to the Soccer mods.

I know exactly what I did, If I got no abuse I would of done nothing.

TherecklessOne and me had a similar issue where he looked at it again and decided the ban was unfair - The only message I sent him was one of thanks and appreciation - the same message Xavi would of recieved were he have not abused me, but he did.

Xavi6

mayordenis wrote: »

He called me a bitch

And before that you called me a sham and a joker (on thread btw), yet you haven't been banned for it so why should I face retirbution for comparing (not calling) you to a bitch via PM?

You got a yellow card in the end (the ban was overturned remember) for your personal abuse so if an SMod gives me a slap on the wrist for it then so be it. I certainly won't be claiming to have suffered 'considerable abuse'.

Your current ban is for the smug PM that you sent me and the abuse you levelled at GuanYin in a another PM.

BuffyBot

I know exactly what I did, If I got no abuse I would of done nothing.

It is a simple truth, but it certainly fits the situation: two wrongs do not make a right. I find it hard to see you perspective because your own less than mature behaviour is clouding it. (Immature poking like spelling someone's name wrong intentionally to annoy them, for example). You're not looking at it dispassionately, and that's what is doing you no favours.

The he said/she said from both you and Xavi won't help anyone, and I suggest that it be put to bed. Xavi6 - perhaps, perhaps sending messages like that to other users when moderating isn't a good idea as it only serves to inflame passions even more.

I've no intention of over-ruling the Soccer mods on this, but I would ask them to re-consider the lenght of it after you have recognised what you did wrong on this occasion and not before.

GuanYin

mayordenis wrote: »

Even when I sent a message to Guanyin about something like "how the process going so?" I was given back a reply that was basically telling me to shut up and wait - If you had of just said "it'll take some time" I wouldn't of got pissed off at all -

Really? Is that what you're going with?

OK.

At 17.44 on March 27 you PM'd your initial complaint with no links or references to what you say had happened.

I replied asking for them.

At 19.02 you supplied links while also opening a Feedback and Helpdesk thread.

then at 19.25 you send this

mayordenis wrote:

so eh hows that coming along then?

My response (given I've had less than two hours to reply)

GuanYin wrote:

Things move faster when I only have one stream of correspondence to read. Right now I have PMs from you, PMs from mods, a helpdesk and a feedback thread.

In future if you want a fast response, pick one and stick to it. As it is, I'm not doing anything until I've reviewed all of the above, and I'm a busy lady

You had other PMs from other soccer mods too.

We overturned the ban, there are 7 of us in different timezones so it isn't a quick process to engage, but the ban was overturned and you were notified.

Your response was the PM to Xavi and this following one.

mayordenis wrote:

sorry was at the ireland match just back now so missed all this,
with regards "all 3" types of trying to have this rescinded, I'm actually not going to listen to GuanYin's ****e, egomaniac that he is, I tried talking to Xabi originally and he made it very obvious he had no intention of being level headed the PM's he sent me were ridiculous - but i'm definately not going to make anything of it. So I then posted in error on the wrong forum - which was changed to the correct forum, and everyone wanted me to pm the rest of the mods on this forum,
It's pretty simple really and GuanYin telling me that he's busy and crap like that and he has to read through PM's from everyone and then read all 10 posts on the threads made (again 1 being a mistake) is total guff.
Anyway just so you know I'm not ranting at you - second time you have done the right thing and helped me out but again - in this one I feel like I've once again been hard done by because one mod was having a bad day/ has a problem with me since I made him look like an idiot back on the man city vs liverpool match thread,

Denis

Now as you've been perm banned from soccer before and banned previously, you know EXACTLY how to proceed when challenging a ban, but you have every right to post in helpdesk. Something I firmly believe. What you don't have a right to do, is dictate the speed at which we work and if you start helpdesk and feedback threads and selectively PM mods (whch you did), be certain we will review ALL PMs and ALL threads before we act.

Secondly, when we found in your favor, you would be well within your right to complain about any ban. Where you are not within your right is to insult me and troll Xavi.

Let us be honest, the spelling his name wrong, the reference to me... all mild trolling.

Now given your long history with us, the reason you were perm banned previously and the nature of your reaction here, I don't really believe that you were interested in justice as much as revenge.

I have issued you with two red card infractions. One for your PM to Xavi and one for your PM in response to me. Both were replies to moderation of soccer and we have outlined that such responses to moderation PMs will result in bans or infractions.

The two red cards, plus your previous history brings you to 6 yellow cards = 6 month ban.

However, you have served some days of bans that were overturned, I will deduct this from the 6 month period. Your ban will be for 5 months and 25 days (minus 2 days for every 1 you were banned)

mayordenis

Be fair for one second, I support liverpool I'm used to Xabi when I'm annoyed I'll spell Xavi as Xabi because I'm on auto-pilot - so not trolling in the least, in reality I never call people up on spelling me name Dennis even though in my actual life that is an annoyance - so just stop with that Trolling because it's clutching at straws.

Lets tell everyone the abuse I gave you - I called you an egomaniac - I said this to someone else in a private message that was in no way intended to be a public message - lets see that again "egomaniac" - and you followed that up with a 6 month ban - You have 100% vindicated my "abuse" which isn't abuse, unless again you are clutching at straws.

You don't think you could of said something along the lines of "I'm busy it will take time" instead of a big spiel blaming me - for PM's from other mods that have nothing to do with me, and a thread in feedback that was made in error - and was essentially copied into this current thread.

So you named 4 things you had to look through in the PM, but from me there were 2 threads (both identical) and 1 pm.

And again how do you other mods of the soccer forum feel about Xabi calling me a bitch? Asking aggresivly Why the Fuck I made a thread etc?

sending me a rant about liverpool fans in attempt to show how blinkered liverpool fans are - yet all he did was tar himself in some sort of anti liverpool colours.

Denis: Egomaniac
GuanYin: No I'm not your banned for 6 months.

I really am not going to let this go - The incident actually took place over PM so I can't accept a ban for the soccer forum - you should talk to an admin about a site ban maybe which I don't think "egomaniac" would warrant.
It's like assaulting someone after a nightclub and getting taken off the road for 6 months the ban and the "crime" are completely unrelated.

GuanYin

mayordenis wrote: »

Be fair for one second, I support liverpool I'm used to Xabi when I'm annoyed I'll spell Xavi as Xabi because I'm on auto-pilot - so not trolling in the least, in reality I never call people up on spelling me name Dennis even though in my actual life that is an annoyance - so just stop with that Trolling because it's clutching at straws.

mayordenis wrote:

Because it's so blatant, Xavi sorry about spelling your name wrong, it was something I was doing on purpose to goad you. I though what will annoy him? I'll spell his name wrong slightly, the way I spell the word when I prenounce it. Really sorry about that.

1=/= 2

mayordenis wrote:

Lets tell everyone the abuse I gave you - I called you an egomaniac - I said this to someone else in a private message that was in no way intended to be a public message - lets see that again "egomaniac" - and you followed that up with a 6 month ban - You have 100% vindicated my "abuse" which isn't abuse, unless again you are clutching at straws.

mayordenis wrote:

The abuse to you was unfair by me - A mistaken identity in that I even though you were a man a different person altogether.

1=/=2

You don't think you could of said something along the lines of "I'm busy it will take time" instead of a big spiel blaming me - for PM's from other mods that have nothing to do with me, and a thread in feedback that was made in error - and was essentially copied into this current thread.

I didn't blame you. I told you honestly the situation. You asked after less than two hours what progress was made. I outlined that there was none and why.

So you named 4 things you had to look through in the PM, but from me there were 2 threads (both identical) and 1 pm.

I'm not going to give an opinion unless I read everything.

And again how do you other mods of the soccer forum feel about Xabi calling me a bitch? Asking aggresivly Why the Fuck I made a thread etc?

sending me a rant about liverpool fans in attempt to show how blinkered liverpool fans are - yet all he did was tar himself in some sort of anti liverpool colours.

Thats another helpdesk thread. It's a little above my paygrade to take mods to task over their wording. However, I was perfectly polite and direct in my PM and you still saw fit to insult and troll me.

Denis: Egomaniac
GuanYin: No I'm not your banned for 6 months.

If you feel you have a case here, you should make it without mis-portraying events for a sympathy reaction.

I really am not going to let this go - The incident actually took place over PM so I can't accept a ban for the soccer forum - you should talk to an admin about a site ban maybe which I don't think "egomaniac" would warrant.
It's like assaulting someone after a nightclub and getting taken off the road for 6 months the ban and the "crime" are completely unrelated.

So far we have.

1. Trolling xavi by mistyping his name (admitted by you).
2. sending him a trolling PM when the ban was overturned (you never mentioned this but we have the PM).
3. Insulting me in a PM (you admitted this).

All this in response to actually getting your way.

You got 2 red cards from those, they sent you over the 6 yellow card limit, you have a 6 month ban. It is reduced by 6 days as compensation for the 3 days you were banned to 5 months and 25 days.

The Cmod and all 6 Soccer Mods have agreed with this and we won't be downgrading at this time unless an SMOD, Admin or ComMan directs us so.

I would very much value their input.

mayordenis

GuanYin wrote: »

1. Trolling xavi by mistyping his name (admitted by you).
2. sending him a trolling PM when the ban was overturned (you never mentioned this but we have the PM).
3. Insulting me in a PM (you admitted this).

1. I DID NOT ADMIT THAT, I hate having to use caps as above I have not said that. Like I said I support liverpool I am not Spanish so it very easy for me to mis-spell his name Xabi as in Liverpools spanish midfielder and not Xavi Barcelonas Spanish midfielder. Do you see where the mistake is? I have not admitted that because it did not happen.
Again you show you have made a decision with no regard for what is actually happening.

2. Stop using the word trolling, I was gloating I sent him 2 messages both are on this page the one with "aawwwww yea" which is gloating the second was not gloating it was telling him very much my point of view that he had acted smugly and out of order, that is neither gloating nor trolling - it's telling someone they treated me badly when they did. Ok?

3. I did Insult you in a PM if being called an egomaniac In a PM with ANOTHER person is insulting. Again the "insult" was in a PM with TheRecklessOne not with you, I didn't send you abuse in a PM or whatever spin you want to put on this.

Again read this thread which I know will take you a long time being busy and all, and I'm ok with that. And notice that I did not ever accept that in point 1 I was deliberately mis-spelling his name, you seriously think I want sly digs? My digs at people are never sly they are face value or completely behind there backs.
So lets put the Trolling wand away because it's not being used correctly here, I wasn't trolling anyone at all, do you know what trolling is? Do you know that offering someone who has been so harshly treated by the soccer mod team a paltry 4 days off there absolutely shambolic 6 month ban could easily be construed as trying to get a rise out of that person?

GuanYin

mayordenis wrote: »

Xavi sorry about spelling your name wrong, it was something I was doing on purpose to goad you. I though what will annoy him? I'll spell his name wrong slightly, the way I spell the word when I prenounce it. Really sorry about that.

mayordenis wrote: »

1. I DID NOT ADMIT THAT, I hate having to use caps as above I have not said that. Like I said I support liverpool I am not Spanish so it very easy for me to mis-spell his name Xabi as in Liverpools spanish midfielder and not Xavi Barcelonas Spanish midfielder. Do you see where the mistake is? I have not admitted that because it did not happen.
Again you show you have made a decision with no regard for what is actually happening.

Who posted the above on this thread? Gremlins?

mayordenis

The concept of sarcasm, are you familiar? It is not an admission, no gremlins posted anything from my account, I posted saying that I sat down and had a long hard think about what would annoy him - did you honestly believe that's the conslusion I would of come to?
It was a mis-spelling of a name nothing more than that, I think I did it once on this thread btw so lets look at this with some clarity please.

Gordon

mayordenis wrote: »

The concept of sarcasm, are you familiar? It is not an admission, no gremlins posted anything from my account, I posted saying that I sat down and had a long hard think about what would annoy him - did you honestly believe that's the conslusion I would of come to?

These are soccer mods here, they are subjected to people that actually do this every day, so yes, they believe it I would imagine. Fwiw, I thought you were being sarcastic, but this is not the thread for you to attempt sarcasm or any dubious statements.

GuanYin

mayordenis wrote: »

It was a mis-spelling of a name nothing more than that, I think I did it once on this thread btw so lets look at this with some clarity please.

I think every PM and reference I can see has the "mistake"

Gordon wrote: »

These are soccer mods here, they are subjected to people that actually do this every day, so yes, they believe it I would imagine. Fwiw, I thought you were being sarcastic, but this is not the thread for you to attempt sarcasm or any dubious statements.

Hrmm... I didn't think it was obvious saracasm. It seemed the same tone as his apology to me, which I guess I'll take as sarcasm too.

In any case, I really see no need for further soccer mod input, Gordon, Buffybot et. al, I think this is in your hands now.

Gordon

GuanYin wrote: »

Hrmm... I didn't think it was obvious saracasm.

It wasn't obvious to me. The first time I saw him say Xabi I thought he was intentionally being obtuse, but it took me a couple of reads to work out the sarcasm.

mayordenis

GuanYin wrote: »

I think every PM and reference I can see has the "mistake"



Hrmm... I didn't think it was obvious saracasm. It seemed the same tone as his apology to me, which I guess I'll take as sarcasm too.

In any case, I really see no need for further soccer mod input, Gordon, Buffybot et. al, I think this is in your hands now.

stop with the "mistake" thing - it was one and does not need quotations,
And thank you, I think one thing me, you and Xavi6 will all agree on is that our discussions are not going to yield results that all parties will deem appropriate,
To a degree I will wait upon any Smods or anyone who can help me, however I will not just accept being shat upon.
Fair point about using sarcasm with people in here - it's not the place.

Gordon

mayordenis wrote: »

stop with the "mistake" thing - it was one and does not need quotations,
And thank you, I think one thing me, you and Xavi6 will all agree on is that our discussions are not going to yield results that all parties will deem appropriate,
To a degree I will wait upon any Smods or anyone who can help me, however I will not just accept being shat upon.

Buffybot has given you an answer.

Fwiw, I'm not happy about what Xavi6 said re: the b*tch comment. Especially considering recent events on another forum (Xavi), it's not what a Mod should be writing to a user. But that is not for this thread.

mayordenis

So as far as the Smod's would be concerned you've drawn a line under this?
The recomendation BuffyBot gave was to try and talk to the soccer mods - they clearly have no interest in entertaining anything except there own decisions and motives.
I don't want to have to start being the guy going above people here Gordon, I really would urge you if you have the time etc to talk to maybe other Smods about this - it is plain and simply reckless use of the rules to the ones personal devices.

Although thank you for saying at least that the bitch comments were somewhat out of line, I know how this will sound to most - but it's unlikely any of the events would of developed were it not for comments as such.

Again though I must underline that I cannot in this case talk to the mods - they have no interest in holding real dialogue - They will at every turn just give a reason why I'm satan personified.

BuffyBot

To be honest, I think you could engage with the moderators - if, and only if, you took a better approach to what happened.

You don't seem particularily willing to embrace that concept - and as such, I'll re-iterate my earlier post. I've no intention of over-turning the desicion of the forum mods in this case.

GuanYin

I'm somewhat dubious about the honest and sincerity of anything that mayordenis may have to say, but I'll stay as open minded as I can.

I'm in no way interested in the previous with you and Xavi6.

The ban stands as does the reasoning behind it. I want to know why I should reduce it.

You received infractions because, quite frankly, even if mods do make mistakes there is no justification for the PMs sent nor the posting attitude after you were unbanned.

From my personal point of view, I gave you the benefit of a fair review process which was found in your favor, you returned this with insults, abuse and mis-representation.

So if we want to start there...

mayordenis

BuffyBot wrote: »

To be honest, I think you could engage with the moderators - if, and only if, you took a better approach to what happened.

You don't seem particularily willing to embrace that concept - and as such, I'll re-iterate my earlier post. I've no intention of over-turning the desicion of the forum mods in this case.

Ok that's a valid opinion - it was tried already though - quite clearly, why am I the only being asked to take a differing approach? I don't like the idea of PM'ing Guanyin or Xavi or even TheRecklessOne who is a good guy - because I can't talk to someone knowing they are just throwing my PM's around between them.

But again I really tried talking to everyone - well bar Xavi who just gave me grief over everything, maybe I should of but I didn't and most likely won't - There is nothing that I can argue here without a 3rd party looking into this 100% and seeing it from every angle.

One thing nobody takes into account is that none of this would of happened were there no ban given for something that everyone has now agreed was not a bannable offence. And the other point being why get a Soccer Forum ban for a PM - i don't want a siteban by any means I'm a decent member of this site - but if there is an issue with a PM I sent I should be banned from Boards and not simply the Soccer forum?

GuanYin

mayordenis wrote: »

Ok that's a valid opinion - it was tried already though - quite clearly, why am I the only being asked to take a differing approach? I don't like the idea of PM'ing Guanyin or Xavi or even TheRecklessOne who is a good guy - because I can't talk to someone knowing they are just throwing my PM's around between them.

Any discussion will be in this thread, given the PMs sent by you to various mods, I want everything open. I'm the one who holds your ban in place btw.

But again I really tried talking to everyone - well bar Xavi who just gave me grief over everything, maybe I should of but I didn't and most likely won't - There is nothing that I can argue here without a 3rd party looking into this 100% and seeing it from every angle.

You never spoke to me. You pushed me for progress, that was it.

One thing nobody takes into account is that none of this would of happened were there no ban given for something that everyone has now agreed was not a bannable offence. And the other point being why get a Soccer Forum ban for a PM - i don't want a siteban by any means I'm a decent member of this site - but if there is an issue with a PM I sent I should be banned from Boards and not simply the Soccer forum?

That is a fair point. But that is why we have review processes.

While review processes are in place and when the conclude, don't expect that you can then throw abuse and insults any way you like.

Regarding your PMs, the banning PM clearly states that any insulting or abusive PMs are subject to further sanctions.

As a simple rule, if you're PMing a mod about a ban or any moderation and you're rude, abusive or uncivil, you'll get banned for it.

mayordenis

GuanYin wrote: »

You never spoke to me. You pushed me for progress, that was it.

Ok that I will outright apologise for - It wasn't intended as proding but simply an update - I sit at a computer all day in work and 20 minutes may be something of use to alot of people, whereas between work I'm constantly refreshing boards.

GuanYin wrote: »

That is a fair point. But that is why we have review processes.

While review processes are in place and when the conclude, don't expect that you can then throw abuse and insults any way you like.

Regarding your PMs, the banning PM clearly states that any insulting or abusive PMs are subject to further sanctions.

As a simple rule, if you're PMing a mod about a ban or any moderation and you're rude, abusive or uncivil, you'll get banned for it.

Your point is ok, but again I know this metaphor may seem a little off but If you assault someone in the street while it is against the law you will not have your driving license taken away from you.


And I agree I have no interest in PM's at all anymore I feel they have been used by both parties (most yours :pac:) to there own ends.

therecklessone

I was going to stay out of this discussion because I felt it best not to give the appearance of the forum mods all ganging up on one individual, which is a charge that has been laid on me before, but there's a couple of things need saying.

mayordenis wrote: »

because I can't talk to someone knowing they are just throwing my PM's around between them.

Your PM to me was originally going to stay private, despite the fact that it referenced decisions made by other forum mods, that was my intention until I became aware of your gloating PM to Xavi6. At that point a decision needed to be made on your continued access to the forum, and for that decision to be as informed as possible required me making your comments known to my fellow mods.

I don't make a habit of sharing private correspondence with other people on this forum, unless I believe it necessary for effective moderation of the forum, and I make no apologies for that.

mayordenis

therecklessone wrote: »

I was going to stay out of this discussion because I felt it best not to give the appearance of the forum mods all ganging up on one individual, which is a charge that has been laid on me before, but there's a couple of things need saying.

Your PM to me was originally going to stay private, despite the fact that it referenced decisions made by other forum mods, that was my intention until I became aware of your gloating PM to Xavi6. At that point a decision needed to be made on your continued access to the forum, and for that decision to be as informed as possible required me making your comments known to my fellow mods.

I don't make a habit of sharing private correspondence with other people on this forum, unless I believe it necessary for effective moderation of the forum, and I make no apologies for that.

All fair I have not and will not lay the blame at your feet - I have not accused you of lulling me into thinking it was a private conversation and it was my error to assume it was, I should of know that it was public.

with regards Xavi there's really no point in saying that again it was private and it was personal - something that was completely not made personal by me - it was made personal when via PM I was called a bitch - I honestly don't don't believe you think I was in the wrong here but maybe you do - I was given **** - and I could easily of told Xavi my actual opinion of him and his actions I gave a very fair comment that I though he abused his powers - the first one was as much jokesy as it was gloatish.

GuanYin

mayordenis.

I'm not for a second interested in your tit for tat with Xavi.

This issue arose from the point of your original ban being overturned and it was more than just Xavi you brought into it with some very personal comments of your own.

The Xavi bitch issue is not for review here and if you want to continue with it, fine, but I have no reason to be here.

When you want to discuss your current ban and the reason for it, let me know.

Xavi6

mayordenis wrote: »

with regards Xavi there's really no point in saying that again it was private and it was personal - something that was completely not made personal by me - it was made personal when via PM I was called a bitch - I honestly don't don't believe you think I was in the wrong here but maybe you do - I was given **** -

Hold on a second. Are you saying you didn't insult me on thread with personal abuse that led to the ban in the first place?

As far as I'm concerned YOU made it personal first by attacking me. The posts are there to prove it and I've no problem digging them out if you so wish.

and I could easily of told Xavi my actual opinion of him and his actions I gave a very fair comment that I though he abused his powers - the first one was as much jokesy as it was gloatish.

You did. You called me a sham and a joker on thread which is what started the whole thing off.

We wouldn't be here if you hadn't resorted to that.

mayordenis

Xavi6 wrote: »

Hold on a second. Are you saying you didn't insult me on thread with personal abuse that led to the ban in the first place?

As far as I'm concerned YOU made it personal first by attacking me. The posts are there to prove it and I've no problem digging them out if you so wish.


You did. You called me a sham and a joker on thread which is what started the whole thing off.

We wouldn't be here if you hadn't resorted to that.

I didn't call you a sham I said your argument was a sham, and I called you a joker - nobody in there right mind could see that as abuse - it isn't simple as.
Infact even with it beinf rescinded you have never said it was a mistake in judgment.

Xavi6

mayordenis wrote: »

I didn't call you a sham I said your argument was a sham,

Really?

mayordenis wrote: »

grow up, you have Ireland ahead of Gerrard and you have the gaule to question anyone else, There's one sham in this thread and it's definately not Aurelio.

Explain that then.

and I called you a joker - nobody in there right mind could see that as abuse - it isn't simple as.

It's attacking the poster, not the post, so therefore is in breach of the charter.

Beruthiel

BuffyBot wrote: »

mayordenis - I think the bigger issue here is that you responded in a way that was only likely to inflame the circumstance further. Whether or not the soccer mods took the correct action has now become a secondary issue because you decided to take an action that "sank" to the level you percieved them to be at.

If a user on your forum did that to you, I can imagine you'ld be annoyed to. There is no reason the soccer mods would be any different. The way you reacted to this *was* your fault. You could have taken any moral highground that there is here by going "fair enough, yellow card it is". You didn't do that.

As a collective, they've reconsidered the original ban, which I think was the correct course of action. Now because you reacted in such a way, they've imposed a much greater penalty. Personally, I think it's a little harsh, but I can understand why they've taken the step they have considering your previous history.

I think you need to think about your actions here.

See what Buffy wrote there?
Read it again.

Just because you continue posting on this thread doesn't change any of the above.

IMO nobody is coming out of this smelling of roses and to continue further with your petty tit for tat is helping neither of you at this point.

mayordenis

Fair enough Beruthiel, I'll draw a line under the argument with Xavi6. I have read everything BuffyBot has wrote and taken it in - That does not however mean I in anyway believe I have been treated with anything resembling fairness or respect.

You can call it petty if you want, probably just to have another dig at me, which seems to be the flavour of the moment - but it's not a small matter to me, it's something quite important, and I will keep posting until I believe there is a resolution tabled that is acceptable.

In life or on the internets, being treated with fairness and respect is vital - the institution of Boards has been let down here in a bad way.

therecklessone

Sorry for dipping back into this.

mayordenis wrote: »

You can call it petty if you want, probably just to have another dig at me

Denis, you do yourself no favours there, and you do a great disservice to Beruthiel. The SMods role here is to listen to your complaint, decide if action is required, and do what is necessary to achieve the desired outcome. They're not here to have a pop at you, and TBH that reply suggests to me that you're not thinking clearly before posting your replies. It might be worth your while taking a break from this discussion for a day or two before you continue, that's just a friendly bit of advice, no malice intended.

I believe BuffyBot has given you excellent advice, with a couple of very salient points. You may have read his posts in full, but I don't think they have sunk in yet.

I'd just like to point one other thing out if I may? You've been complimentary towards me in my role, and I appreciate that. It might surprise you to know that when the time came to review the ban I had handed you, it was Xavi6 who was most vocal in your defence. It might also surprise you to know that it was GuanYin who reminded me that you were perfectly entitled to take a complaint you had to Feedback or Help Desk if you wished (I had expressed disappointment that you'd chosen to pursue this complaint publically while also PMing us for a review), and I honestly believe her PM to you was simply to let you know that the process would take time because you had chosen to pursue the claim in that manner.

I'm not sure exactly why I'm telling you that, maybe it might lead you to have a rethink about the two individuals, which might help you have a look at this whole incident in a new light. I agree with Beruthiel, it's best to draw a line under your dispute with Xavi6, but I certainly see no reason to blame GuanYin for her PM. If your criticism should be laid upon anyone, it should be on me for my comments which promoted her to PM you in the first place.

mayordenis

Ugh I'm in work, which is bad enough when the ireland match is on without being banished from the soccer forum.

Could I get clarification on the 6 yellow cards that have led to this ban please?

mayordenis

Sorry for the double post - but if I could get the exact breakdown of the 6 yellow cards taht equated to 6 months that would be great, I know it was mentioned in the first page, but it was just a little vague - so just for my own head I'd love that info.

Denis

GuanYin

You received a yellow card from me for an aggressive post to Boggles.

You received one for your joker/sham post that led to this

You received a red for your response to therecklessone abusing me

You received a red for your trolling post to Xavi.

ultimately the two red cards put you over, the limit.

mayordenis

Ahh the boggle post was the one throwing me off
fair enough, still disagree with the whole shebang but it's not going to be changed by looks of it.

GuanYin

mayordenis wrote: »

Ahh the boggle post was the one throwing me off
fair enough, still disagree with the whole shebang but it's not going to be changed by looks of it.

You disagree with what?

You honestly think that your reaction to your unbanning was justified?

You think that it is fair to aim abuse, mild or not, at moderators because they don't react how you like?

You think that your withholding of facts here and mis-representation of information was a clever move?

Really, if you want any movement, you are going to need to readjust your thinking, attitude and convince me that it won't happen again.

mayordenis

In hind sight I could of conducted myself better sure, but I still feel personally I had a point. It was most likely the wrong way to go about making that point.

It wasn't really abuse in my eyes, and not just a reaction that I like but more so I read a tone of dismissal in the PM which came across as arrogant in your PM which I'll admit I misconstrued - this is about the only thing I will hold my hands up on. As you know the persons tone is often hard to gauge through text - likewise you misconstrued my attempt at sarcasm earlier in the thread.

I don't think I withheld any facts, or mis-represented anything - just said my view on things, you have to remember on my side of the fence there is me and me alone, on your side of the fence there are several people holding an opinion the same as yours.

I probably can't convince you of that - Bar the minor details above I still think I got mostly the short end of the stick.

Like without getting into the debate on whether any abuse howeve minor or not is acceptable (I guess overall it's not regardless), here is the overall abuse I used - (sorry if this seems out of context, I will admit most of this was delivered in a passive agressive manner also)

Sham
Joker
Egomaniac

then just reasonably mild taunting ala the PM's sent to one Xavi.

Maybe I should realise it was more my attitude than the actual words used that has earned me the ban though.

GuanYin

mayordenis wrote: »

Maybe I should realise it was more my attitude than the actual words used that has earned me the ban though.

It was exactly your attitude than your words.

Noone here is paid to mod. We make mistakes, as do you.

Xavi admitted his mistake in banning you by reversing the ban. I haven't seen a similar admission in your taunting and trolling of him.

At the end of the day, on boards.ie most mods take the view that provocation is not an excuse for reaction. It's in the soccer charter.

You have a choice you can have faith in the system which had served you well or you can retaliate. Once you take option two, you've lost.

I have a resolution for this in mind, but I'm not pushing anything forward until I discuss it with co-mods and see some consideration from you.

Many will take the view that an apology to get back into a forum is hollow, so that isn't want I want.

This is helpdesk, so tell me how you expected your responses to be dealt with and what you think is reasonable and why.

mayordenis

To be honest I wasn't thinking of the any aftermath - got unbanned and had a go at him - I though at most there would be some to'ing and fro'ing with probably a few more PM's and then we'd both draw a line under it.

I think without coming full circle I have shown already a certain level of regret - your point is fair that provocation not being an excuse for reaction, it's something I have some amount of difficulty with but can accept.

I also appreciate not asking for an outright apology - because I'm not trying to be snotty here, just honest, I'm not going to turn around and say that I'm completely sorry because I felt harshly treated and I reacted pretty poorly. But there is still a background voice in my mind that with acceptance that I broke the rules - that the rules are somewhat inherently broken themselves.

GuanYin

Ok.

I'm going to be honest.

My intention was to see if you had actually learned anything from this and if so reduce one red from my PM to a yellow, give you a month ban and leave you on 5 yellows.

However, I have just been directed to these two posts.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59654839&postcount=54

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59654922&postcount=57

and now I don't believe you have any intention of drawing a line under your grudge.

I'm not going to make this call, because I'm honestly angry at those posts and I can't make a fair call when I'm angry.

SMODs, if you could give me your input - I'll take your call on this and then I think you can close the thread, I have nothing more to say to mayordenis right now.

mayordenis

GuanYin wrote: »

I'm not going to make this call, because I'm honestly angry at those posts and I can't make a fair call when I'm angry.

fair enough they were made with thongue very much in cheek - I don't think I said anything controversial there - was really kidding. I can't see anything to make you angry there.

I'm not going to go and kick anyone or have a go at anyone - and If I turned up and played for the poker team which I can't see happening cause they don't want me - I think everyone on both sides would of had a laugh about it.

mayordenis

Actually I don't want to get worked up about this but what I said in the poker forum joking with a few people - I've even talked to frisbee seperatly - it should still have no baring on this process - I think that's a bit out of line.
I like this that if xavi read that he wasn't offended and wasn't in any way taking it to heart like I'm after him with a machete or something.

mayordenis

Right I've been told that the soccer mods are "out" of this one, fair enough I've irked them with my little bit of banter on another forum,
Now if any Smod thinks what happened above is in any way my fault I would love to know, grand I might have done a job on just keeping my mouth shut - I was asked a question I gave an answer and I was just having a laugh and a situation that could do with a few laughs.

Now seriously I really do think this has gone beyond the original debate - I think Some mods actually just have a problem with me and are being completely skewed in there decision making, half of me things the above was all orchastrated to just make me believe this was coming to a resolution and then turning it around based on something on another forum that has nothing to do with any of this.
It seems completely disingenuous to happen upon some comments made well over a day ago at this very convenient time.

I was just about willing to let this go but now, no way. Absolutely not.

Whats wrong with anything I posted in the poker forum? I'm not getting on with the mods, that's pretty ****ing obvious if you ask me. If I had of had a go at someone fair enough but I certainly did not.

Gordon

mayordenis wrote: »

fair enough they were made with thongue very much in cheek - I don't think I said anything controversial there - was really kidding. I can't see anything to make you angry there.

I got the sarcasm earlier, but I didn't get the fact that your tongue was in your cheek this time.

mayordenis wrote: »

Actually I don't want to get worked up about this but what I said in the poker forum joking with a few people - I've even talked to frisbee seperatly - it should still have no baring on this process - I think that's a bit out of line.

I'll point out something you wrote earlier:

In life or on the internets, being treated with fairness and respect is vital

I don't think you had that in mind when posting what you did in poker.

mayordenis wrote: »

Right I've been told that the soccer mods are "out" of this one, fair enough I've irked them with my little bit of banter on another forum,
Now if any Smod thinks what happened above is in any way my fault I would love to know, grand I might have done a job on just keeping my mouth shut - I was asked a question I gave an answer and I was just having a laugh and a situation that could do with a few laughs.

After all that, if I was the soccer mod I wouldn't be letting you back in for a long time.

Now seriously I really do think this has gone beyond the original debate - I think Some mods actually just have a problem with me and are being completely skewed in there decision making, half of me things the above was all orchastrated to just make me believe this was coming to a resolution and then turning it around based on something on another forum that has nothing to do with any of this.
It seems completely disingenuous to happen upon some comments made well over a day ago at this very convenient time.

Not getting into what the other half of you thinks about this, but your judgement should take into account the sum and whole of what you think about this, not just half of what you think about something. All of it.

I was just about willing to let this go but now, no way. Absolutely not.

Whats wrong with anything I posted in the poker forum? I'm not getting on with the mods, that's pretty ****ing obvious if you ask me. If I had of had a go at someone fair enough but I certainly did not.

You were threatening to do a bit of gowling and mess about and, sure who knows, bring the police and firetrucks. In my opinion you were threatening something, there was an air of ambiguity about what exactly you were going to do but one could extrapolate you 'having a go'. So, fair enough, someone could construe it as - you wanted to have a go at someone. You agree yourself that it wouldn't be on if you were having a go, you agree that you would be in the wrong if that was the case, well, it is the case. And the case is closed for me.