Reps and Shakes

NFH

Two questions -

a) I do weights every second day, do two muscle groups per session, chest/biceps, legs/shoulders, back/triceps and I always do 4 sets per muscle group and 10 reps per set becuase I was told thats the best number for increasing size, but now Ive been told for the big compound lifts like bench press, squat and deadlift that 5 to 6 reps with heavier weight is what ya need to do for size gaining. So is 5 to 6 reps with heavier weights the way to go for all exercises if you wanna gain size and strength.

b) I take BSN True Mass for helping to gain size but have a feeling its contibuting to getting a bit of a belly. Would I be better off just taking a pure protein shake instead of mass gainer, I hear different types of protien shakes are good, like glutamine etc

ScissorPaperRock

NFH wrote: »

Two questions -

a) I do weights every second day, do two muscle groups per session, chest/biceps, legs/shoulders, back/triceps and I always do 4 sets per muscle group and 10 reps per set becuase I was told thats the best number for increasing size, but now Ive been told for the big compound lifts like bench press, squat and deadlift that 5 to 6 reps with heavier weight is what ya need to do for size gaining. So is 5 to 6 reps with heavier weights the way to go for all exercises if you wanna gain size and strength.

Not that I know the biology behind this but afaik larger rep numbers (between 8 and 12 - more towards 12) are better for making gains in size, while lower reps (5-8) are better for building strength. Thing is you can become stronger while not gaining much mass, yet with higher reps you build more mass and should still progress in strength.

NFH wrote: »

b) I take BSN True Mass for helping to gain size but have a feeling its contibuting to getting a bit of a belly. Would I be better off just taking a pure protein shake instead of mass gainer, I hear different types of protien shakes are good, like glutamine etc

It most likely will contribute to a bit of a belly, but it's not something I'd worry about while bulking, that's why people cut after bulking, to get rid of any excess fat. Glutamine isn't a protein shake, it's an amino acid often taken after a workout to help recovery.

kevpants

Rep ranges, bulking, cutting. All buzzwords that don't really matter.

To say that 12+ reps will make you big but 5 reps won't is silly. The thing that matters is that you continuously get stronger no matter what range you're in. I train with sets of 3, 5, 12, 20 etc for different exercises. I just make sure I can do more reps or sets every few weeks.

It's true doing sets of 1 or 2 reps will make you strong under heavy weight and stressing the muscle with multiple reps will induce growth but you can't just say "I'm a 15 rep man" or "I never do more than 5 reps". No one who actually knows what they're at does this.

Eat "enough". There, that's nutrition for you if you want to grow.

ScissorPaperRock

kevpants wrote: »

It's true doing sets of 1 or 2 reps will make you strong under heavy weight and stressing the muscle with multiple reps will induce growth

You basically just dismissed my point, and pretty much made the same point again.

And how are bulking and cutting and reps buzz words that don't matter? It's just a way of explaining something... a term.

I mean saying bulking is easier than having to say trying to build muscle mass. Or saying cutting is easier than having to say trying to reduce body fat level.

kevpants

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

You basically just dismissed my point, and pretty much made the same point again.

And how are bulking and cutting and reps buzz words that don't matter? It's just a way of explaining something... a term.

I mean saying bulking is easier than having to say trying to build muscle mass. Or saying cutting is easier than having to say trying to reduce body fat level.

I made your point the point it wanted to be when it grows up

What I was saying is so many people adopt a certain rep range as "their rep range" and don't venture outside it. I squat for singles some times and I squat for 20 reps others. I try to set PR's on everything I do.

Rep ranges only matter when you notice better results from a particular one. I've been trying to ad width to my back, I have fairly good thickness and I've found advice from experienced people on rowing heavy weights for a few reps to ad width to be bollox, but only in my case. I need volume and lots of it so I'm hitting multiple sets of 15,20 or more and it's helping. On the other hand, benching for more than 6 reps has never done diddly squat for me.

Bulking and cutting is of this BS bodybuilder speak that every 10 stone bloke with a pair of Elverys gloves has adopted. Why do you need to yo-yo up and down, undoing your strength gains with a big weight loss effort? Why don't you just eat "enough" as I mentioned and keep getting bigger and stronger. Unless you are a competetive bodybuilder or your sport involves making weight it's a ridiculous practice.

Jimmy Bottlehead

I'd recommend using nothing more than a post workout whey shake. No other supps, apart from a multivitamin and cod lover oil.

Just eat every 2-3 hours, ~30g protein per meal.

I've found TeamTests 'Anacat' diet very good for limiting fat gain. For the 24 hours after your workout, eat like an animal. After that (until your next workout) eat smarter, and cleaner. Not so stupid levels. But just watch what you eat and eat less carbs. When it comes up to your next workout, get them carbs back into ya and repeat the cycle.

http://www.teamtestforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=761

ScissorPaperRock

kevpants wrote: »

I made your point the point it wanted to be when it grows up

What I was saying is so many people adopt a certain rep range as "their rep range" and don't venture outside it. I squat for singles some times and I squat for 20 reps others. I try to set PR's on everything I do.

Rep ranges only matter when you notice better results from a particular one. I've been trying to ad width to my back, I have fairly good thickness and I've found advice from experienced people on rowing heavy weights for a few reps to ad width to be bollox, but only in my case. I need volume and lots of it so I'm hitting multiple sets of 15,20 or more and it's helping. On the other hand, benching for more than 6 reps has never done diddly squat for me.

Bulking and cutting is of this BS bodybuilder speak that every 10 stone bloke with a pair of Elverys gloves has adopted. Why do you need to yo-yo up and down, undoing your strength gains with a big weight loss effort? Why don't you just eat "enough" as I mentioned and keep getting bigger and stronger. Unless you are a competetive bodybuilder or your sport involves making weight it's a ridiculous practice.

How condescending...

My point didn't want to be anything other than what it was. I didn't insist that my suggestion was the only way, or that other ways wouldn't work. I was simply advising on what the general guidelines are. They can then be tweaked once one is actually experienced enough to see what works for them and what doesn't.

Secondly, I don't wear Elvery's gloves, and my weight doesn't yo-yo up and down. I've been weightlifting for two years and it's only in the last month that I'm managing to put on weight. And there's a little bodyfat appearing as well - what's the harm in incorporating some cardio into my workout at some point to reduce this?

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

On the other hand, benching for more than 6 reps has never done diddly squat for me.

Well there's your problem. Totally different muscles being worked!

Jimmy Bottlehead

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

How condescending...

My point didn't want to be anything other than what it was. I didn't insist that my suggestion was the only way, or that other ways wouldn't work. I was simply advising on what the general guidelines are. They can then be tweaked once one is actually experienced enough to see what works for them and what doesn't.

Secondly, I don't wear Elvery's gloves, and my weight doesn't yo-yo up and down. I've been weightlifting for two years and it's only in the last month that I'm managing to put on weight. And there's a little bodyfat appearing as well - what's the harm in incorporating some cardio into my workout at some point to reduce this?

If this is the case, then why are you trying to advise people when you haven't really done so yourself? Its a case of the blind leading the blind then. No offence, but anyone can rhyme off crap they've heard. For example, you can eat too many eggs, squats wreck your knees, and so forth. Doesn't mean its right. I'd tend to trust the guy who's been there and done that, than the guy who's read about it all and has never tried lifting.

ScissorPaperRock

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

If this is the case, then why are you trying to advise people when you haven't really done so yourself? Its a case of the blind leading the blind then. No offence, but anyone can rhyme off crap they've heard. For example, you can eat too many eggs, squats wreck your knees, and so forth. Doesn't mean its right. I'd tend to trust the guy who's been there and done that, than the guy who's read about it all and has never tried lifting.

It's not about rhyming anything. It's about passing on knowledge that I've acquired, from experience, reading it, and talking to experienced people. If I had told this person that bench presses are the way to go to build your biceps, that would be the blind leading the blind, as I'm obviously wrong, and clueless. In this case, when I'm passing on information that is helpful as a rule of thumb for a beginner, and in a broad sense held to be true (although tweaking helps on a case to case basis), I don't think it's quite the same. I'm not a guy who's read about all and has never tried lifting. I'm a guy who has learnt from experience.

NFH

Thanks for the advice on the reping. I think for myself im gonna keep the reps for the big 3, lower to help with strength but I do like the 8 to 10 reps on most other exercises as I get a pump from that number.

Anyway about the mass gainers, I just think there are possibly a tad too many calories in them, especially since I take a shake twice a day. So if all I am trying to do is increase my protein intake to sustain hard training what would people recomend in the supplement area(of couse food etc). What are the best protein shake powders out there and also what are the best amino acid powders also, I know some people that add small scoops of concentrated aminos like Glutamine into their protein shakes aswell for after sessions. Also kinda hopin protein shakes as oppose to these mass gainers would work out a bit cheaper.

Jimmy Bottlehead

NFH wrote: »

Thanks for the advice on the reping. I think for myself im gonna keep the reps for the big 3, lower to help with strength but I do like the 8 to 10 reps on most other exercises as I get a pump from that number.

Anyway about the mass gainers, I just think there are possibly a tad too many calories in them, especially since I take a shake twice a day. So if all I am trying to do is increase my protein intake to sustain hard training what would people recomend in the supplement area(of couse food etc). What are the best protein shake powders out there and also what are the best amino acid powders also, I know some people that add small scoops of concentrated aminos like Glutamine into their protein shakes aswell for after sessions. Also kinda hopin protein shakes as oppose to these mass gainers would work out a bit cheaper.

Optimum Nutrition do lovely whey shakes, as do MyProtein.co.uk. If you wanna go with them, use the code in my sig. I love their stuff, and its cheaper than most other brands.

Glutamine is good, but you don't honestly need it. Supplements won't build you up any quicker than food... I'd always recommend solid food over supps any day, apart from post workout.
Supplements are just food in powdered form. Thats all. If supps were magic potions that made anyone huge, there'd be a hell of a lot more massive guys walking about!

kevpants

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

How condescending...

My point didn't want to be anything other than what it was. I didn't insist that my suggestion was the only way, or that other ways wouldn't work. I was simply advising on what the general guidelines are. They can then be tweaked once one is actually experienced enough to see what works for them and what doesn't.

Secondly, I don't wear Elvery's gloves, and my weight doesn't yo-yo up and down. I've been weightlifting for two years and it's only in the last month that I'm managing to put on weight. And there's a little bodyfat appearing as well - what's the harm in incorporating some cardio into my workout at some point to reduce this?

I didn't mean to sound condescending. I was just cautioning against beginners doing what they always do and latch on to perfectly ok pieces of info like their success depends on it when really they are just part of the picture. Rep ranges get pointed out as key to beginners but PR's are the most important thing, no matter if it's a 10 rep PR or a 1RM PR. Beginners end up doing the same weight for 3 sets of 10 for 6 months and wondering why they aren't growing.

My point on the bulking and cutting is that you should just concentrate on fuelling yourself and if the fat comes a bit fast just adjust something and say "Right, no carbs after 7pm now" or "No more Yorkies". The extremes of bulk & cut aren't really relevant.

I wasn't accusing you of not knowing what you're on about, Im 28(+1) no and I've been training since I was 17. For 11 years I was the poster boy for retarded training. Then whatever hormone is responsible for ego ran out and I accepted I knew nothing.

Now I just preach to the guys who've only wasted 6 months, a year or 2 years so they can get an 8 or 9 year head start on me. I'm pretty awesome really (still some ego left:D)