RTÉ apologises to Cowen

If RTE hadn't apologised as I see it on foot of the phone call,then they would have had to do so eventually on foot of a BCC decision on the matter.Now tbh they have more cop on than letting it go to that.
I don't see any other possible outcome from viewing the actual original RTE report.
Theres no getting away from the fact that it joined in the sarcasm rather than just reporting it.
I'm pretty sure it's not allowed in a news cast to create derision as opposed to just reporting it.

Elmo

Deleted User wrote: »

If RTE hadn't apologised as I see it on foot of the phone call,then they would have had to do so eventually on foot of a BCC decision on the matter.Now tbh they have more cop on than letting it go to that.
I don't see any other possible outcome from viewing the actual original RTE report.
Theres no getting away from the fact that it joined in the sarcasm rather than just reporting it.
I'm pretty sure it's not allowed in a news cast to create derision as opposed to just reporting it.

BCC lets not confuse people.

Look the report was done in a humours tone and even the staff at the galleries thought it funny. It was not disrepectful in anyway. and their is nothing to suggest that the BCC would not have seen it as anything other then a humourous report.

I think the Taoiseacht has blown this out of proportion and it is a non-story treated on RTÉ News as a non-story. e.g. .... and finally.....

gogglebok

fricatus wrote: »

Disgraceful, issuing an apology like that. It's not as if RTE were the ones themselves putting the portraits in there. They just reported - in a fair manner I believe - on an event that happened.

It seems that they presented it as an opportunity for jokes rather than a serious news item. There is a difference between reporting a joke on the news, and the news broadcaseers making a joke. Did they say something about it being "unclear whether Mr Cowen had sat for the portraits himself"?

According to the Irish Examiner, RTE had already pulled the item before the complaints were received, because they themselves thought it was inappropriate.

That being said, the Fianna Fail call for the Director General to resign is nasty and bulllying and completely over the top. It looks as if Fianna Fail have leapt on a complaint, which is justified in itself, to fire a warning shot at RTE. That is worrying. So is the guy on the radio dangling the licence fee as a temptation for the state broadcaster to be subservient to the government of the day.

Fianna Fail seem to have a problem understanding that the State and the Government are not the same thing. To be honest, I'm not sure the other parties would be any better in this regard.

I've already said,why I think the BCC would have had to act.
News casting is not for creating it's own sarcasm or derision,its for factual reporting and associated comment/analysis.

I'd also agreed that it was suitable as such for an "...and finally" spot.

But where it fell down was RTE News enhancing/getting in on the act on it's own by poking fun at the man.They should have dumped that part for due diligence reasons alone I think.
I'd also agreed that Cowen should have laughed it off but accept that he may have his family to consider.
Its an important matter in my book anyway to act at the behest of your families wishes if thats what he did.
My gut feeling is thats exactly what he did.

gogglebok

Elmo wrote: »

Dear Mr. Cowen,

Please find a link to the BCC, www.bcc.ie, should you wish to waste the time of a civil servant I suggested you use the correct ones.

Kind regards,

Great point, Elmo. The whole idea of politicians ringing the broadcaster directly like this is worrying in itself, whether the specific complaint is right or wrong. How can it not be felt as pressure?

gogglebok

gogglebok wrote: »

That being said, the Fianna Fail call for the Director General to resign is nasty and bulllying and completely over the top. It looks as if Fianna Fail have leapt on a complaint, which is justified in itself, to fire a warning shot at RTE. That is worrying. So is the guy on the radio dangling the licence fee as a temptation for the state broadcaster to be subservient to the government of the day.

Fianna Fail seem to have a problem understanding that the State and the Government are not the same thing. To be honest, I'm not sure the other parties would be any better in this regard.

I actually think that part of it says more about Mr Kennedy's lack of common sense in relation to this than anything else.
It looks to me like a case of engaging mouth before brain.
In which case it's justice that it should come back to bite him by looking like bullying.

Honestly sometimes I do despair about the feet our politicians put in their mouths sometimes and in this case a lack of savvy in my opinion.

Also again in regards to politicians ringing,it's not as if it's not out in the open or that they know it won't be.
It's very transparent and the norm.
By all means though people can complain about that process.

darc

Is there no end to political bashing in Ireland these days.

Brian Cowen is the political leader of the country & I for one am disgusted that a serious news program on our national broadcaster should promote this form of insult./ Same goes for Today FM & Ray Darcy who thought it was hilarious. - If it was on a show like podge & rodge, it would be different, even funny.

With the world economy at the bottom and some small shoots of growth starting to appear in the USA we should be behind our politicians and promote Ireland for the decent country it is and show potential inward investors that if they invest in Ireland theywill get a good return.

Instead this form of tripe shows us up to be an uneducated country full of naysayers who would prefer & believe tabloid muck than educated elected officials.

Basically, we're showing ourselves to be the same as Britain. -An uneducated majority with very little belief in ourselves.

youcrazyjesus!

Disgusted by this whole episode. No matter how angry Cowen might be the smartest move is to laugh it off and sweep it under the carpet. It'll be forgotten about very soon, now it's turned into something 100 times bigger with plenty for the opposition to get their teeth into.

And what the hell are the Gardaí getting involved for? Since when it is a crime to deposit art in an art gallery? I'm eager to find out exactly what crime they are investigating.

Old official Ireland springing in to action here, RTE, politicians, Gardaí all working in sync to minimise any harm done to our esteemed Taoiseach. Police investigating insults delivered to political leaders belongs in African banana republics.

Stargal

Deleted User wrote: »

To be fair-it wasn't a piece for the main news in the way it was covered.
It was a piece for a magazine programme or for the opening of tubridy or for podge and rodge...

Deleted User wrote: »

My point was it didn't just report.It went out on the street with a vox pop and made fun of him.

gogglebok wrote: »

It seems that they presented it as an opportunity for jokes rather than a serious news item.

Wait, are we talking about the same report here?

This is the report that went out on the RTÉ news.

There were no innuendos, no crude jokes; the reporter, Tadhg Enright, covered it as a straightforward news story. The only joke he made was at the beginning, saying something about how the painter obviously thought that Cowen wasn't wearing the trousers in government.

It was exactly the tone that is always used by RTÉ for its 'And finally...' stories.

If it had been gratuitously insulting or derogatory in how it depicted the story then there could have been a case for an apology. But it wasn't. Enright spoke to someone from the gallery about what happened, someone from Adam's Auctioneers about how it wasn't worth anything and spoke about how someone had offered to buy it.

The reason that the Office of An Taoiseach complained is because the story was covered at all.And that's why people have such a huge problem with what happened. RTÉ shouldn't be muzzled for something like this.

youcrazyjesus!

Something like this would be on all the news stations in Britain, except perhaps the servile BBC. I guarantee Jon Snow would cover it on his C4 news.

darc wrote: »

Is there no end to political bashing in Ireland these days.

Brian Cowen is the political leader of the country & I for one am disgusted that a serious news program on our national broadcaster should promote this form of insult./ Same goes for Today FM & Ray Darcy who thought it was hilarious. - If it was on a show like podge & rodge, it would be different, even funny.

With the world economy at the bottom and some small shoots of growth starting to appear in the USA we should be behind our politicians and promote Ireland for the decent country it is and show potential inward investors that if they invest in Ireland theywill get a good return.

Instead this form of tripe shows us up to be an uneducated country full of naysayers who would prefer & believe tabloid muck than educated elected officials.

Basically, we're showing ourselves to be the same as Britain. -An uneducated majority with very little belief in ourselves.

gogglebok

Deleted User wrote: »

I actually think that part of it says more about Mr Kennedy's lack of common sense in relation to this than anything else.
It looks to me like a case of engaging mouth before brain.

Fair enough, you're probably right. Stupidity rather than conspiracy every time.

Stargal wrote: »

Wait, are we talking about the same report here?

We may not be. I can't watch it at work, so I'm going on what the papers say. But that's never misleading, right?

Stargal

Stargal wrote: »

Wait, are we talking about the same report here?

The reason that the Office of An Taoiseach complained is because the story was covered at all.And that's why people have such a huge problem with what happened. RTÉ shouldn't be muzzled for something like this.

How do you know that stargal? or is it just your opinion? Do you have access to the content of the call?
Secondly where are you on the issue of reporting news as opposed to enhancing satire on the news.
Theres no leeway there when it involves creating new satire.
There is recourse when a person is parodied in an extra way by the reporter (and the report) other than what is there in the facts to be reported.

As regards RTE being muzzled or any broadcaster,thats not the issue or even the case here.
Sarcasm is not muzzled,its free and allowed but not on news casts.
What is at issue here is whether it is right or wrong to expose people who watch or listen to newscasts to something other than the facts of the news and specifically should a politician be subjected in a newscast to sarcasm over and above whats there to be reported.
The answer is no.

Elmo

Should the Tribune Say sorry to?

Also I always find Ursla Halligan to be very sarastic, should she say sorry to everyone?

Newspapers operate under different rules Elmo

You should be aware that it's a lot more difficult to get a broadcast licence than open a newspaper

As for Ursella Halligan-only if theres a genuine complaint.

Edit just to clarify...
My little wink above is in reference to the fact that I know Elmo posts a lot on ICDG so would be aware of that fact.It's not to mean that I'm suggesting political interference in broadcast licence decisions!

While I'm here I may aswell reiterate for the umpteenth time that the difference between print media and TV/Radio newscasts is that the latter aren't allowed to be a mouth piece for political views,they can only report facts and interpret them.
Even their reporters interpretations can be scrutinised.
Newspapers on the other hand comparatively speaking have much more free reign as to giving a view on a topic including running opinion pieces for example on their front page as they often do.

Elmo

Deleted User wrote: »

Newspapers operate under different rules Elmo

You should be aware that it's a lot more difficult to get a broadcast licence than open a newspaper

Look this is what I have being saying. If Cowen felt the need to complain he should have contacted the different rules that broadcasters operate under, the BCC would be happy to help. I am sure the head of BCC would love to have his name in the paper.

As for Ursla she gave the Minister for Ed a grade F on one report, surely this is flippent, in a so called serious news report.

Elmo

Elmo wrote: »

Look this is what I have being saying. If Cowen felt the need to complain he should have contacted the different rules that broadcasters operate under, the BCC would be happy to help. I am sure the head of BCC would love to have his name in the paper.

And I'm saying it's not the Norm.
If you want to change the norm,then it's perfectly acceptable to be taking that position and what you have said so far is consistant with wishing to do so but I think you should accept what is the norm first obviously and that you think it needs to be changed.
There are plenty of examples of it.

As for Ursla she gave the Minister for Ed a grade F on one report, surely this is flippent, in a so called serious news report.

She'd only be commenting on something he was doing in office there presumably.Thats acceptable.
[EDIT]Mind you we could be here all night discussing individual examples as no doubt there is a line whereby TV shows cannot cross regarding political advocacy.Thats something I'd rather not get into,fascinating a topic as it is...as I've more pressing work here to get on with [/edit]

If she gave Cowen an F for his body in the portrait...that would be a different matter and yes justifiably actionable from a programme complaiunts point of view I think.

Elmo

Deleted User wrote: »

And I'm saying it's not the Norm.
If you want to change the norm,then it's perfectly acceptable to be taking that position and what you have said so far is consistant with wishing to do so but I think you should accept what is the norm first obviously and that you think it needs to be changed.
There are plenty of examples of it.

She'd only be commenting on something he was doing in office there presumably.Thats acceptable.

If she gave Cowen an F for his body in the portrait...that would be a different matter and yes justifiably actionable from a programme complaiunts point of view I think.

The norm = A normal person contacting the BCC to make a complaint in relation to what they consider bad taste in relation to an item regarding a nude painting of An Taoisceach.
Not the norm = A nude painting of An Taoiseach, that AT is embarrest by. He can then ring the DG :rolleyes: but not the editor of a national broadsheet newspaper.

I can't really remember what the F was for I just thought it was a stupid way to report something. And she basically called the Minister a Failure, I have never seen anyone call any minister a Failure on the TV when reporting the news have you? Surely she was out of the norm.

This was the norm I don't give a care who you are but you don't call the DG or CEO with a complaint.

No Elmo,the norm I am referring to is what is normally always done by our elected representatives/government.

Thats an entirely different concept to you or anyone else objecting to what is normally done by them.

hellboy99

Artist could face charges relating to Taoiseach nudes

25/03/2009 - 17:04:39 - Source: http://iol.breakingnews.ie/news/ireland/eyaueyauidau/


The artist behind nude paintings of Irish Taoiseach Brian Cowen which were hung in two of the country’s top public galleries could face criminal charges, it was revealed today.

The 35-year-old school teacher, named as Conor Casby, was tracked down to his south Dublin home after investigators scoured CCTV footage of the prank.

The Government sucessfully requested State broadcaster RTÉ apologise for its coverage, while a detective called yesterday at the studios of a national radio station to demand details of email contacts with the artist.

Many Government representatives have spent time today defending the move on radio talk shows, as well as refuting claims that they should have a sense of humour about the incident and concentrate on more important issues such as the economy.

The controversy has now garnered widespread publicity, even achieving international coverage.

A Garda source revealed that Casby was not arrested but voluntarily accompanied investigators to Pearse Street garda station in central Dublin yesterday to be interviewed.

A file is being prepared, which could be sent to the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP).

“We have to go through the statements and everything and if there is any indication of criminality – and there is a lot of debate about this – we’ll have to send it to the DPP,” the source said.

Another senior Garda source said it was unlikely that any charges would be brought, however.

The unflattering paintings were hung in the National Gallery of Ireland and the Royal Hibernian Academy (RHA) gallery – both within a stone’s throw of the Taoiseach’s offices – almost three weeks ago.

One shows a naked Mr Cowen seated on a toilet and holding a toilet roll, while the other shows the Taoiseach holding his underpants.

Both have been seized by the Garda, but Casby, in a “final comment” on the matter issued to the Today FM radio station this morning, said he hoped to auction them off to the highest bidder and donate the proceeds to charity.

A detective called at the radio station’s studios yesterday to demand details of emails between the artist and the Ray D’Arcy show.

Will Hanafin, the show’s producer, said the detective told him the investigation was looking at three potential offences of indecency, incitement to hatred and criminal damage, which was hammering a nail into a gallery wall.

“He was very friendly, very nice, but he said the powers that be wanted it done,” Mr Hanafin said of the detective.

Rest of article:

When he refused to hand over any information, Mr Hanafin said he was told the Garda may now seek a search warrant.

RTÉ issued an apology last night at the end of its 'Nine News' programme over its television report the previous evening “on the illicit hanging of caricatures of the Taoiseach”.

It said it received a number of complaints, including one from the Taoiseach’s office.
The state broadcaster apologised for any personal offence caused to Mr Cowen or his family and for any disrespect shown to the office of the Taoiseach.

In a statement to Today FM this morning, Casby said he “would like to draw an end to this by offering the portraits to the highest bidder and donate the proceeds to charity”.

“In terms of the arguments going on in the media now, I think they’re less and less to do with me,” he said.

“As much as I can say about it is that it’s interesting for me to see things like this develop through the media from a viewpoint other than that of punter.”

Fine Gael justice spokesman Charlie Flanagan tonight branded the investigation a gross affront to freedom of expression and a waste of Garda time.

“The way this matter has been handled is more reminiscent of Russia in the 1930s than Ireland in 2009,” he said.

Mr Flanagan said it was a “scandalous waste of resources” for detectives to be probing “what amounted to a practical joke that offended the Taoiseach’s ego”.

“Today FM has clearly come under pressure to hand over emails about this matter while RTÉ News was obviously browbeaten into a grovelling apology,” he said.

“Freedom of expression is fundamental in a democracy.

“As politicians, we are frequently subject to unflattering comment and depiction but that is part and parcel of being a politician living in a free society.

“The Taoiseach’s over-reaction to what amounted to satire is completely over the top.”

What a joke, waste of time and money.

youcrazyjesus!

1 Incitement? ......to what exactly?

2 Indecency? .....hmmm....every newspaper and magazine editor in the country would be in doing hard time if that was enforced as a crime these days.

3 Criminal damage? .....I'd imagine there would need to be some intent on his part to cause damage. There was absolutely no intent to damage any property.

If I were him I'd have refused to speak to the Gardai. He could have offered 50 euro to the gallery as a gesture of goodwill towards the structural damage to the building caused by his nail but thats about it.

flogen

Deleted User wrote: »

My point was it didn't just report.It went out on the street with a vox pop and made fun of him.

Thats a departure from factual news reporting.It's an advocacy of disrepect which is ok in a satirical programme but it's not the function of news reporting.

There was no vox pop and no poking fun of Cowen that I saw - perhaps you can tell me what you're referring to.

Entirely different because they would be reporting what someone else done.
They wouldn't be taking part.
Effectively the piece they did on the 9 o clock news departed from plain reporting and entered the realm of joining the písstake that the paintings were.

Bar saying 'it's not know if the Taoiseach posed for the paintings' was the only facetious remark made that I can see. This wasn't hard news but it wasn't inaccurate either.

I did not hear the darcy programme.Did he publish any facts regarding that?

He spoke about a visit by Gardaí to a producer which has been referred to on Matt Cooper, Today FM's news, Irishtimes.com, in the Dáil etc.

Are you suggesting that there is pressure from the top on Gardaí?

The visiting Garda was alleged to have said 'the powers that be want action taken'.

With all due respect to you,I'd suggest you read the thread linked in the site wide forum announcement [for mods only]at the top of this thread by the way if you have no proof of this.

I am aware of defamation law - who do you think I may have defamed?

If RTE hadn't apologised as I see it on foot of the phone call,then they would have had to do so eventually on foot of a BCC decision on the matter.Now tbh they have more cop on than letting it go to that.
I don't see any other possible outcome from viewing the actual original RTE report.

That's your assumption.

Newspapers operate under different rules Elmo

Is this about journalistic ethics or rules? What rules did RTÉ break that a newspaper reporting the story cannot?

While I'm here I may aswell reiterate for the umpteenth time that the difference between print media and TV/Radio newscasts is that the latter aren't allowed to be a mouth piece for political views,they can only report facts and interpret them.

Broadcast media are obliged to be 'fair and accurate' which I think the RTÉ report was.

She'd only be commenting on something he was doing in office there presumably.Thats acceptable.

You're being totally inconsistent here - RTÉ didn't make any kind of reference to Cowen's physicality and were no more flippant than Halligan tends to be a regular basis.

I'm not a fan of 'and finally' reports or this kind of fluff (although this is probably one of the better fluff pieces RTÉ have had in a while) however I am unsettled by attempts by Government to stamp them out in this way.

RTÉ's crime is, at worst, to look in a light-hearted way at someone poking fun at Cowen.

Elmo

Deleted User wrote: »

No Elmo,the norm I am referring to is what is normally always done by our elected representatives/government.

Thats an entirely different concept to you or anyone else objecting to what is normally done by them.

I suppose when you put them up againist Mr. Ray Burke your intirely right to suggest that this is the norm.

As my mother said to me today, it was a funny peice of news with all of this downturn talk.

Also I was hoping RTE would show the other paintings tonight

flogen

flogen wrote: »

There was no vox pop and no poking fun of Cowen that I saw - perhaps you can tell me what you're referring to.

There was a vox pop not available online.It was on the piece that I saw live on the news.It's not on the version on the link stargal posted.A number of people were asked about it including the german referred to earlier.

Bar saying 'it's not know if the Taoiseach posed for the paintings' was the only facetious remark made that I can see. This wasn't hard news but it wasn't inaccurate either.

and the wear the trousers comment and the vox pop.

He spoke about a visit by Gardaí to a producer which has been referred to on Matt Cooper, Today FM's news, Irishtimes.com, in the Dáil etc.

Yeah but is there any actual evidence behind the allegation though as referred to by you earlier that this was due to a leaning from the "top".Who is the top? It could be just the Guards super.
It could be all a mountain out of a mole hill in that respect.

The visiting Garda was alleged to have said 'the powers that be want action taken'.

Shur that though could mean anything as I said...his super for one.

I am aware of defamation law - who do you think I may have defamed?

Did I say you had defamed anyone? I merely pointed you to a helpfull link should this conversation start naming names...That was in the light of you and others suggesting that I should be concerned about and I quote "From what Ray D'Arcy spoke about today we are also seeing pressure from the top on Gardaí to pursue the artist by any means necessary due to the offence caused." link .

Now what evidence is there of that and what could that be possibly suggesting ? hence my referral to the mod thread which was in my mind anyway as it's only new.
In fairness I should have said that to you in pm-my bad

That's your assumption.

It may well be my assumption.However,I've clearly outlined a fact that cannot be escaped and that is that on a news bulletin,where people come to hear newscasters report the news of the day and not in a derisory manner ,there was a news story where 2 pieces of derision were added in the commentary that were unnecessary.
I'd agree that they are actually tiny and insignificant to most of us but they may be significant to some and there are process's there formal and informal for these people to seek corrections.

Is this about journalistic ethics or rules? What rules did RTÉ break that a newspaper reporting the story cannot?
Broadcast media are obliged to be 'fair and accurate' which I think the RTÉ report was.

It isn't fair that a news broadcast should contain a scripted embelishment of derision as opposed to a factual reporting of derision.It's rare that you'd see it,I've not ever came across one actually that I can think of offhand.I've cited two in this report and there is a third with the tone of the report via the vox pop.
The fact of the matter is,that a complaint was made in the usual and quite transparent manner that complaints regarding the treatment of government members on TV and radio are made.
I don't know what the next step would be if the complaint had to be taken further but presumably it would then be the BCC.
I'd imagine that RTE acted with common sense by issuing the apology,cognisant of the do's and don't of these situations for which they will have a long catalogue of previous examples over the years.

You're being totally inconsistent here - RTÉ didn't make any kind of reference to Cowen's physicality and were no more flippant than Halligan tends to be a regular basis.

I'm not.
I actually said I wouldn't be offended by this if it happened to me,I'd find the funny side of this.
I'm looking at this though from an interpretation of someone elses attitude [maybe the Taoiseachs wife or mother?] to it who on the one hand may be different to mine and on the other is entitled to complain about it and has grounds [albeit grounds to go a course that I or you or probably a lot of people wouldn't bother following].
I don't believe that Cowen is so stupid as to go down this road without having good personal reasons.
It just is too obviously damaging.
He's not thick.
In addition to that,I'm in the main here discussing the fact that the complaint was made and dealt with and why I think it was made and why I think it has traction once in the process there for it.I think I've made it clear but I'll reiterate once more my own opinion as to the frivolity of all this.

I'm not a fan of 'and finally' reports or this kind of fluff (although this is probably one of the better fluff pieces RTÉ have had in a while) however I am unsettled by attempts by Government to stamp them out in this way.

I don't agree thats the case and my take on it is just as valid and less conspiratorial...Especially given the triviality with which it could have been looked at [the brush it off approach] versus the dangers ofthis being seen as conspiratorial.
Cowen is too clever in my opinion for to allow that to happen.Theres something more personal to this than meets the eye I think.

RTÉ's crime is, at worst, to look in a light-hearted way at someone poking fun at Cowen.

In my perfect world I'd agree with you there but then I'm not Cowens wife [thank God! ] and I'm not his Mum or any family member.

Elmo

Black Briar I have to say as the day has gone on I have become more and more annoyed at the way in which An Garda and Dept of An Taoiseach have treated this

I don't see the need for the An Garda to interview this practical joker for 2 hours.

I am annoyed at the abuse of power coming from the Dept of An Taoiseach, as I have said on this thread if the government or any citizen wishes to make a complaint then they should go through the normal procedures by apply through the BCC.

The news item was light hearted it was no way defamatory or snide. It was a joke news reported presented to the audience as a joke news report which have been done on RTE News for numerous years. And as I said it was a news report outside the usual down beat news of recent times (including murder and an economic crisis).

The icing on the cake was when Micheal Kennedy FF TD asked for Cathal Goan to stand down. A huge insult to a man who has changed the shape of Irish Television from his work setting up TG4 to many of the reforms that have taken place in RTÉ. Unlike Mr. Kennedy predecessor who nearly destroy all Irish Communication, I talk of Ray Burke FF TD for Dublin North and Minister.

I am sorry but Black Briar you cannot defend the actions of these politicians.

Elmo-I think you've made your opinion clear and I've disagreed with some of it.

I am sorry but Black Briar you cannot defend the actions of these politicians.

heh.
I presume what you mean is you don't agree with me.
I'm just giving a valid possible reasoning behind what has happened.
I've seen yet nothing to counter it that's more reasonable apart from conspiracy.
I'll take a reasonable explanation before conspiracy any day thank you.
But each to their own

storker

fricatus wrote: »

Disgraceful, issuing an apology like that. It's not as if RTE were the ones themselves putting the portraits in there. They just reported - in a fair manner I believe - on an event that happened.

Agree totally. I'm no cheerleader for RTE, but they should have stuck by their guns. "F**k off fat boy and apply yourself to fixing the mess you helped get us into" would have been a much more appropriate response IMO. :mad:

And I'm sure the guards have better things to be doing than solving a "non-crime" in the name of salving the ego of a proven incompetent politician.

Bah.

Stork

hideous ape

From this whole ridiculous episode we can deduce that should anyone throw an egg or shoe at Brian Cowen then the death penalty would follow.

Fianna Fail re-election campaign for 2025 launches Summer 2009!

Elmo

Deleted User wrote: »

Elmo-I think you've made your opinion clear and I've disagreed with some of it.
heh.
I presume what you mean is you don't agree with me.
I'm just giving a valid possible reasoning behind what has happened.
I've seen yet nothing to counter it that's more reasonable apart from conspiracy.
I'll take a reasonable explanation before conspiracy any day thank you.
But each to their own

You seemed to be defending the politicians and agreeing with their actions. I have offered no conspiracy theory. All I have said is that I really do not think that these people dealt with this news story in the most appropriate manner and I fell that they have mis-used there power on an issue that was not under any circumstance undermining the Position of Mr. Cowen and if they felt this way about the issue they should have written to the Authority set up to look at such complaints.

Elmo

Elmo wrote: »

You seemed to be defending the politicians and agreeing with their actions.

Wrong I offered a plausible reason for the complaint.

I have offered no conspiracy theory.

I didn't say you did. Others did.

All I have said is that I really do not think that these people dealt with this news story in the most appropriate manner and I fell that they have mis-used there power on an issue that was not under any circumstance undermining the Position of Mr. Cowen and if they felt this way about the issue they should have written to the Authority set up to look at such complaints.

As I said,it's the norm down through the ages for Governments to do it the way it was done.
I believe the BCC would have upheld a complaint.The grounds for one are clear ie an un warranted mickey take on a news bulletin.
Thats appropriate on podge and Rodge but not on a newscast hence the apology which was RTE's sensible reaction to a complaint they must have known based on their catologue of experience would have stood up if taken further.

flogen

Deleted User wrote: »

There was a vox pop not available online.It was on the piece that I saw live on the news.It's not on the version on the link stargal posted.A number of people were asked about it including the german referred to earlier.

If that's the case I apologise for saying there was no vox pop - I had not seen it and did not realise the online version differed from the live one.

and the wear the trousers comment and the vox pop.

The 'wear the trousers' comment was tongue in cheek, nothing more than that. I can't say what the vox pops were because I didn't see them, I never like their use however.

Yeah but is there any actual evidence behind the allegation though as referred to by you earlier that this was due to a leaning from the "top".Who is the top? It could be just the Guards super.
It could be all a mountain out of a mole hill in that respect.

It could be - only a handful of people can say. It's clear that this is being treated very seriously, however, more than you might see in arguably more important cases.

Did I say you had defamed anyone? I merely pointed you to a helpfull link should this conversation start naming names...That was in the light of you and others suggesting that I should be concerned about and I quote "From what Ray D'Arcy spoke about today we are also seeing pressure from the top on Gardaí to pursue the artist by any means necessary due to the offence caused." link .

You suggested I read that thread because of the reference I made to Ray D'Arcy's show being visited by a Garda who said "the powers that be want action". It's clear what your implication was.

Now what evidence is there of that and what could that be possibly suggesting ?

The same evidence there is that RTÉ decided to take the clip down before it was approached by the Government Press Office.

It may well be my assumption.However,I've clearly outlined a fact that cannot be escaped and that is that on a news bulletin,where people come to hear newscasters report the news of the day and not in a derisory manner ,there was a news story where 2 pieces of derision were added in the commentary that were unnecessary.

While I completely despise vox pops in any form if the decision was made to get the "people's voice" I don't think it would be acceptable to cut them because they might be seen as positive or negative.

It's a risk you run with the vox pop format and RTÉ took it, they should stand by it. I'm not certain what was said in these vox pops that could be offensive so I'll have to wait and see if I think they were just negative or if they were over a line.

I'd agree that they are actually tiny and insignificant to most of us but they may be significant to some and there are process's there formal and informal for these people to seek corrections.

There shouldn't be an informal process that allows anyone, particularly the state, to put pressure on a broadcaster to change its output in any way. If they want to complain they have established structures to do so and they should use them.

It isn't fair that a news broadcast should contain a scripted embelishment of derision as opposed to a factual reporting of derision.

I don't think the scripted lines were derisory of Brian Cowen - they were really tongue in cheek references to the artist.

The fact of the matter is,that a complaint was made in the usual and quite transparent manner that complaints regarding the treatment of government members on TV and radio are made.

There was nothing transparent about this - if there was we'd know who contacted who, when they did it and what was said.

I accept that the BCC process would have been only a bit more transparent but it would have been far better if that's what you're looking for

I'm not.
I actually said I wouldn't be offended by this if it happened to me,I'd find the funny side of this.
I'm looking at this though from an interpretation of someone elses attitude [maybe the Taoiseachs wife or mother?] to it who on the one hand may be different to mine and on the other is entitled to complain about it and has grounds [albeit grounds to go a course that I or you or probably a lot of people wouldn't bother following].

It's not a matter of whether you find it funny or not but you are saying sarcasm and so on is unacceptable in news broadcasts and yet you don't think Halligan's comments are all that bad.

I don't believe that Cowen is so stupid as to go down this road without having good personal reasons.
It just is too obviously damaging.
He's not thick.

I very much doubt he is and I don't think there's a great conspiracy; I just think Government are very sensitive about media coverage at the moment as it has tended to make them look bad and they reacted in a way that they otherwise may have not.