Gardai community relations

ART6

I have a neighbor who is a guard. We are on christian names terms, but he is always a little reserved. We mind each other's houses when we go on holiday, but otherwise hardly meet.

Some years ago I was leaving a local hostelry with my brother in law, who was a senior executive in a major company. A couple of guards were trying to reverse a van out of a narrow parking space when they clearly couldn't see where they were going. I guided them out, to be told forcefully by my BIL that I shouldn't help those b******ds.

I accept that at some time I might do something, like speeding in my car or getting stopped for something I had forgotten about, and my neighbor might be the guard on duty then. I wouldn't expect any special treatment.

Is this something that AGS have to live with? Do you keep some form of Chinese wall between you and the public in your community?

deadwood

We depend on the public for help from helping us reverse out of a tight spot to solving murders. We act with the consent of the people. If your friend feels you are doing joe public a dis-service by doing something you would do for your neighbour, what part is he playing in society as a whole?

A lot of people want Gardai to do thier job only so long as it doesn't affect them. I don't go into a shoe shop expecting the assistant not to charge me for the goods because I usually don't need new shoes, now do I?

Random

Some Garda are godsh!tes. Some people are godsh!tes. Mix the 2 up and you'll get a portion of each who hate the other. Such is life.

I certainly don't have a "hate the Gardai" attitude and most people I know wouldn't either. Most of them seem to be trying to do the best they can with the resources and training they've been provided with.

I'll still curse a nice Garda for giving me a ticket though lol... I won't mean it though!

Trojan911

It all depends on the officer really on how much he/she wants their business bandied about. Some will be very open & friendly others will be reserved and only allow a limited friendship develop.

My neighbour is a skipper in the town and he is spot on.

If I see him walking home I will stop & give him a lift and vice versa. Go for beers every now and then. I drop off some freshly shot venison to him & he gives me vouchers for the local golf club (I have yet to break it to him that I actually don't play golf). It's just normal neighbourly stuff.

pingu2008

my father was a member for some 30 years so i grew up with gardai around me but nowadays i might get stopped for something minor in the town where he worked and the newer members seem to be on a power trip just because of the uniform they wear in my fathers time gardai were respected and sometimes feared but not anymore

TheNog

It certainly appears to be a problem with some members who forget or dont realise that respect is earned not given just because of the uniform.

Something the College maybe could raise a bit more of???

Hooch

TheNog wrote: »

It certainly appears to be a problem with some members who forget or dont realise that respect is earned not given just because of the uniform.

Something the College maybe could raise a bit more of???

+ + + + +1 here

I've said it the other day on another thread. Dont understand how the students comming out have changed so much. Dont want to paint with the same brush, some are great students.

Not too long ago when i came out (better re phrase, deadwood in on the prowel!!) was attested we seemed to have a different idea.

Respect is earned and this shines out on good Gardaí who have the community behind them. Younger members seem to forget that we need the public.

CuteStuff

nice guy always wrote: »

+ + + + +1 here

I've said it the other day on another thread. Dont understand how the students comming out have changed so much. Dont want to paint with the same brush, some are great students.

Not too long ago when i came out (better re phrase, deadwood in on the prowel!!) was attested we seemed to have a different idea.

Respect is earned and this shines out on good Gardaí who have the community behind them. Younger members seem to forget that we need the public.

Speaking as a soon to be student, I hope to God, I do not become a power tripping garda in my nice new uniform.
I've plenty of family and friends to knock any of those notions out of me.
Serving members have given me the advice to kill people with kindness which is much more in my nature anyway than to be obnoxious.

When I told a few people I was joining I did get a lot of comments like 'you will be brain washed' 'you will become a power tripping uniform wearing monkey'. So there does seem to be some bad feeling around with the way people have been treated by gardai or rather how they view them.

Hooch

CuteStuff wrote: »

Speaking as a soon to be student, I hope to God, I do not become a power tripping garda in my nice new uniform.
I've plenty of family and friends to knock any of those notions out of me.
Serving members have given me the advice to kill people with kindness which is much more in my nature anyway than to be obnoxious.

When I told a few people I was joining I did get a lot of comments like 'you will be brain washed' 'you will become a power tripping uniform wearing monkey'. So there does seem to be some bad feeling around with the way people have been treated by gardai or rather how they view them.

You have the perfect attitude for joining and i wish you the very best in the job, im sure you will love it.

Everyone leaves Templemore different though i think. Some better some worse. Only you can deciede what route to take

I think the perception is that to be promoted you have to be job job job job job job. Truth is you dont. Community relations is a massive part to some of the biggest detections you will get in the job.

Respect the public and the public will respect you:D

cushtac

The vast majority of Gardaí coming out of the college are fine, it's the minority that have the problem.

The same can be said of those members with service too.

Hooch

cushtac wrote: »

The vast majority of Gardaí coming out of the college are fine, it's the minority that have the problem.

The same can be said of those members with service too.

Ya your right there but compare the students of the last three or four years to students before that and there is a big difference. As per one of my other posts a lot of students are great and have a very positive attitude to the job. But there are so many comming out that have a huge power trip. I know im on for an onslaught as most posters are more than likely new enough. I dont mean to offend anyone by any means its just what i observe.
Probationers have the same power trip problem but most calm down within a couple of months or even weeks. I cant say its age related as I joined young as was a very eager beaver. (Maybe why i was brought back to my station!).

Im not what i would consider senior or have a lot of service (still in single figures at the moment!) but as a tutor before traffic i noticed the difference.

deadwood

nice guy always wrote: »

Not too long ago when i came out (better re phrase, deadwood in on the prowel!!)

He shoower is, sweetheart.

CuteStuff wrote: »

'you will become a power tripping uniform wearing monkey'.

Cool! Fly my pretty! Fly!

eroo

nice guy always wrote: »

Ya your right there but compare the students of the last three or four years to students before that and there is a big difference. As per one of my other posts a lot of students are great and have a very positive attitude to the job. But there are so many comming out that have a huge power trip. I know im on for an onslaught as most posters are more than likely new enough. I dont mean to offend anyone by any means its just what i observe.
Probationers have the same power trip problem but most calm down within a couple of months or even weeks. I cant say its age related as I joined young as was a very eager beaver. (Maybe why i was brought back to my station!).

Im not what i would consider senior or have a lot of service (still in single figures at the moment!) but as a tutor before traffic i noticed the difference.

nice guy always, what age did you join at do you mind me asking? If you don't want to disclose that information no prob's!:)

As most of ye here will know it is my hope to be lucky enough to join AGS. I am young also. If there's only one thing I've learned in life is that just because someone may not respect you doesn't mean you have to disrespect them. It applies in every line of work.. if someone is roaring at you that doesn't mean you have to stoop to their level. As someone said, kill them with kindness!! That sort of attitude has worked for many times:)

Hooch

eroo wrote: »

nice guy always, what age did you join at do you mind me asking? If you don't want to disclose that information no prob's!:)

As most of ye here will know it is my hope to be lucky enough to join AGS. I am young also. If there's only one thing I've learned in life is that just because someone may not respect you doesn't mean you have to disrespect them. It applies in every line of work.. if someone is roaring at you that doesn't mean you have to stoop to their level. As someone said, kill them with kindness!! That sort of attitude has worked for many times:)

I was 19 when i joined. Worked fair hard to get in at that age then.

caff

Used to have a lot of respect for the Guards but it has certainly been reduced in the past 3 years. Mate ended up been tackled to the ground by two young Guards for not moving on when taking photos, ended up been dismissed ( they made a deal where he dropped the complaint against them and they dropped the charge of resisting arrest ) Thing that really stuck with me was he said that during the hearing there was a bunch of younger guards in the back of the court out of earshot of the judge messing and giggling, he compared them to secondary school students on a day out. They really need to sort that kind of behaviour out if they want to gain the respect of the community. These stories get passed on as anecodotes and surely do them no end of harm reputation wise.

noel32

yes yes indeed lads the question of respect, totally agree that some gardai have no respect at all at all, but then there are those who have the utmost respect for the people they serve and fair play, but as for previous comment re the current students coming out and no offence taken but a big question has to be looked at the staff in the college and the totally and utter disrespect they have for the students, agree some students down here dont deserve it some times but there are some down in the college its a disgrace how they speak and treat students , really gets on my nerves

Faheywitane

noel32 wrote: »

yes yes indeed lads the question of respect, totally agree that some gardai have no respect at all at all, but then there are those who have the utmost respect for the people they serve and fair play, but as for previous comment re the current students coming out and no offence taken but a big question has to be looked at the staff in the college and the totally and utter disrespect they have for the students, agree some students down here dont deserve it some times but there are some down in the college its a disgrace how they speak and treat students , really gets on my nerves

I agree here students are never praised for anything they do in the college
only looked down upon and constantly told to improve. It was even
a topic of discussion in an MAOS lecture where the lecturer pointed out that
there is a total lack "positive reinforcement".

As for me, the best lesson I learned on Phase II was the value
of a smile and a sunny disposition

deadwood

noel32 wrote: »

..but as for previous comment re the current students coming out and no offence taken but a big question has to be looked at the staff in the college and the totally and utter disrespect they have for the students, agree some students down here dont deserve it some times but there are some down in the college its a disgrace how they speak and treat students , really gets on my nerves

Breathe man, breathe!

Faheywitane wrote: »

I agree here students are never praised for anything they do in the college
only looked down upon and constantly told to improve.

Did dinkums not get a pat on the head for getting his caution learned off by heart?

It's a college (that trains tough, fit police men and women) lads, not a nursery. Have either of you been to any other college? I don't remember lecturers giving out gold stars for doing good work.

Faheywitane

deadwood wrote: »

Did dinkums not get a pat on the head for getting his caution learned off by heart?

It's a college (that trains tough, fit police men and women) lads, not a nursery. Have either of you been to any other college? I don't remember lecturers giving out gold stars for doing good work.

I obviously need to work on the tough part so

I don't expect to mollycoddled, I just noticed a difference
in the way I was treated in the station to the way I was
treated in the college.

noel32

I've been to a third level college and also worked for seven years prior to joining and its got nothing to do with being a college or tough college or molly coddleing or anything like that, little bit of respect go's a long way in life and if the college are so intent on us being respectful towards others they should be leading by example, sometimes it actually borders on being obnoxious!!! but best ignore it and get on with ones own life

deadwood

noel32 wrote: »

I've been to a third level college ...little bit of respect go's a long way ...

Studying English?

I know what you mean. It's a strange environment in there. The time will fly, don't worry.

TheNog

caff wrote: »

Used to have a lot of respect for the Guards but it has certainly been reduced in the past 3 years. Mate ended up been tackled to the ground by two young Guards for not moving on when taking photos, ended up been dismissed ( they made a deal where he dropped the complaint against them and they dropped the charge of resisting arrest ) Thing that really stuck with me was he said that during the hearing there was a bunch of younger guards in the back of the court out of earshot of the judge messing and giggling, he compared them to secondary school students on a day out. They really need to sort that kind of behaviour out if they want to gain the respect of the community. These stories get passed on as anecodotes and surely do them no end of harm reputation wise.

For the life of me I cannot understand how a member can arrest a person and then have charges/summons dismissed at court due to a complaint or whatever. Im not speaking exclusively about your mates situation cos frankly I have no idea what happened but when I make an arrest especially for public order I make damn sure that:

1. its the last resort i.e. all other avenues have been explored
2. I am fully justified in making that arrest

Do those 2 things and you are safe from any compliant.For gods sake its not that hard really.

noel32 wrote: »

yes yes indeed lads the question of respect, totally agree that some gardai have no respect at all at all, but then there are those who have the utmost respect for the people they serve and fair play, but as for previous comment re the current students coming out and no offence taken but a big question has to be looked at the staff in the college and the totally and utter disrespect they have for the students, agree some students down here dont deserve it some times but there are some down in the college its a disgrace how they speak and treat students , really gets on my nerves

I was 31 going into the college and yes sometimes we were treated like children but at the end of the day whatever sensitivities you may have will soon either disappear or be tested to their limits when you see some of things that people do to each other.
At the time I suppose I didnt see the point of being in bed by 11.30pm or being ordered to march around a square but looking back on it its all part of discipline. Being in the job is not like being in a civilian job and shouldnt be treated as such either.

daithip

ART6 wrote: »

I have a neighbor who is a guard. We are on christian names terms, but he is always a little reserved. We mind each other's houses when we go on holiday, but otherwise hardly meet.

Some years ago I was leaving a local hostelry with my brother in law, who was a senior executive in a major company. A couple of guards were trying to reverse a van out of a narrow parking space when they clearly couldn't see where they were going. I guided them out, to be told forcefully by my BIL that I shouldn't help those b******ds.

I accept that at some time I might do something, like speeding in my car or getting stopped for something I had forgotten about, and my neighbor might be the guard on duty then. I wouldn't expect any special treatment.

Is this something that AGS have to live with? Do you keep some form of Chinese wall between you and the public in your community?

What I've seen change over the last ten years or so is that the majority of new members tend not to live or settle in the areas they are stationed. This, imo think leads to less an less interaction with the local community on a personal level e.g playing with local football clubs etc. and maybe less chance of developing a relationship with them. Leaving that the only interaction a Garda may have with the locals is very impersonal and to be honest we're seldom bearers of good news. I'm basing this on what I've seen in my own Division, dont know how anyone else sees it in there's?

noel32

again have no probelm with the rules and regs in the college fine with being in the leaba at 11.30, prob there by 1030! but the issue is with respect and its just lacking in some areas the way some of em talk to the students is just a disgrace, no problem with the rules,, tis about respect and attitude

deadwood

You can expect a lecture any day now in the college about posting on internet forums!

deadwood

caff wrote: »

Mate ended up been tackled to the ground by two young Guards for not moving on when taking photos, ended up been dismissed ( they made a deal where he dropped the complaint against them and they dropped the charge of resisting arrest )

The case ended up being dismissed rather than the guards? I've never come acoss a "deal" like this though, it's a bit "Law&Order"ish.

You're right about guards chatting and giggling in court. I wouldn't be too impressed.

ART6

daithip wrote: »

What I've seen change over the last ten years or so is that the majority of new members tend not to live or settle in the areas they are stationed. This, imo think leads to less an less interaction with the local community on a personal level e.g playing with local football clubs etc. and maybe less chance of developing a relationship with them. Leaving that the only interaction a Garda may have with the locals is very impersonal and to be honest we're seldom bearers of good news. I'm basing this on what I've seen in my own Division, dont know how anyone else sees it in there's?

I suppose we of the older Joe Public might still have this rosy memory of the local Guard who knew everyone and was known by everyone, and who drank with us in the local pub. Shades, perhaps, of the UK TV's Heartbeat? Where I live we have a group of three small villages close together, and up until a couple of years ago we did have a local Guard. He lived in one of the villages and had a station in his house, but when he retired it was closed and the house was put up for sale. My neighbor is not the "local Guard" -- he just happens to live here, but I assume he is now part of the county force with no particular community remit. This leads me to wonder -- the population has increased, and small communities have expanded. Has the number of Gardai increased proportionally? Is there no merit seen by AGS management in any Guard knowing his community, or is centralisation the modern mantra?

Turner

deadwood wrote: »

You can expect a lecture any day now in the college about posting on internet forums!

Oh i got them all, about posting on the internet that is, video phones were only just coming out when i was an eager phase 1 student.

Dont think anybody had heard of youtube back then.

eroo

noel32 wrote: »

again have no probelm with the rules and regs in the college fine with being in the leaba at 11.30, prob there by 1030! but the issue is with respect and its just lacking in some areas the way some of em talk to the students is just a disgrace, no problem with the rules,, tis about respect and attitude

Personally speaking, I would be over the moon to be lucky enough to be in the Garda College as a Student Garda.. so much so I wouldn't be on the internet complaining about the staff!

noel32

maybe its just me but that stuff just gets on my nerves as with any group not giving respect, aint complaining just stating my view in reply to a previous comment about students and atitude and respect coming out of the college at the mo

deadwood

Chief--- wrote: »

video phones

Video phones? Ha! You're good with the jokes, Chief!

I suppose by the 1980's we'll be going to work in hovercrafts?

Faheywitane

noel32 wrote: »

maybe its just me but that stuff just gets on my nerves as with any group not giving respect, aint complaining just stating my view in reply to a previous comment about students and atitude and respect coming out of the college at the mo

Same here no problem with the rules at all, I can understand
the reasoning behind drill, parade etc. Id even go so far
as to say I agree with It.

Are you going to give the lecture regarding tinterwebs
an posting thereon Deadwood??

I feel I have much to learn from you:D

brayblue24

Chief--- wrote: »

video phones were only just coming out when i was an eager phase 1 student.
QUOTE]

Video phones? video phones? It were all grass round here when I were a phase 1 student! We had Betamax and 8 track cassette. Even the cars were blue.