O Gara performance v Wales

myflipflops

Am i the only person astounded by the general reaction to O'Gara's performance against Wales? Am i the only one who thought he was generally poor?

I watched the game at home on my own (had to go to into work after!!) and as such I was in a good position to analyse it without being influenced by alcohol and other people. My initial reaction was that O'Gara had probably played himself out of Lions Test starting place. The moment Shanklin ran over him I was thinking McGeechan would be putting a line through his name.

Yesterday and today I've been reading all the reports and reviews and was most paint O'Gara in a good light. I was astounded to see RTE.ie (see link below) gave him a 9/10!! I know you have to take player ratings with a pinch of salt but come on, what game were they watching? Is it purely to do with his bottle in slotting the drop goal (lots to admire in that) and a general steading of performance in the second half? Am i being overly critical?

So i put it to the forum - how did you rate O'Gara against Wales from a purely rugby point of view? (ie ignoring the Grand Slam hype etc etc)


http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/sixnations/2009/0322/player_rating_ireland.html


** Just before i get accused of anti O'Gara/Munster bias, I'm a Leinster fan but have big respect for O'Gara as a rugby player. I was just about in favour of him over Jones for Lions 10 before Saturday. I don't want his thread to turn into an anti-ROG mini forum.

**** Grand Slam - get in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!

themont85

His performance was okay, not incredible but the cross kick and drop were incredible.

zuroph

Munster fan here, and I agree, theres something up with him, he's having stinkers of games. Still some flashes of genius, but a lot of errors too. It made the drop goal attempt all the more nerve-wrecking. Scary prospect of having to replace him at some stage though.

nialo

Have to say i disagree, the guy got pounded hard in the first half. had two bad kicks but outside that didnt slip up. didnt add much didnt you cant always expect him to put points on the board when nobody else is. In the second half he played extremely well. started kicking nicely and that drop goal kick was under serious pressure which he handled like a pro. he has had one really bad game in the 6 nations but outside that he has been a solid player. what more do you expect?

Drummerboy2

He was definitely targeted by the Welsh runners and at times he looked a little shell-shocked by the attention he was getting. He only had one penalty shot on goal which he missed. He kicked a wonderful ball for Bowe to run in. And to top it all off he kicked that drop goal. Worth a 7/10.

Otacon

themont85 wrote: »

His performance was okay, not incredible but the cross kick and drop were incredible.

+1

It should also be noted that he was clearly a target for Wales from the get-go. With Jones' trip and Shanklin's steam-rolling, they were obviously trying to make him their b!tch!

The way he responded in the second half, makes me admire him more! His vision for the cross-field kicks (remember he was inches from doing it again for Bowe) and his drop-goal under pressure speak for themselves tbh.

The post regardless of whether you mean it is just gona have poeple going mad.

I am a big critic and dont hide the fact i dont think he is a good player.

I will say though,I thought he had a good game,his best in a long while.
He got some harsh treatment all through the match from the welsh playerd but came through.

I thought he tried to run the ball too much and was in risk of getting isolated constantly,when he should have been passing to Darcy who is better at breaking the gain line.

He was responsible for the drop goal and he exploited shane Williams so badly that I dont think he will start on the Lions.
Alan Gaffney and Rog take a bow,you have just showed other teams how to beat Wales if you have a big winger like Bowe.

Overall he wasnt the best player on the pitch but he did well,I would however really like to start blooding a new 10 from now on.Not to get rid of Rog but to allow us to vary our game against different teams.He is still gona be a good asset for future year,probably inc the wc.

teednab-el

ya he played average enough but that drop kick under extreme pressure has to be admired for the rest of our lives. O Gara has always done the business when it was wanted from him the most so we all must have big respect for him.

myflipflops

Lawrence Shy Climber wrote: »

The post regardless of whether you mean it is just gona have poeple going mad.

Don't see why anyone would go mad. I think I've made a fair point in a reasonable manner. I'm putting it out there and very much willing to listen to a reasoned arguement of the other side.

I think O'Gara is a quality player and as such, I judge him by the standards he has set previously. The fact that I'm questionning that performance is basically a compliment to him as a player.

hardCopy

He was like a turnstile in the first half, he still can't tackle. His cross kick was nicely weighted though and he got the drop goal under serious pressure.

I don't think he warranted a 9/10 and I think he's probably cost himself a chance to start in SA

Juwwi

could'nt agree more with the OP.
I taught he had a very ordinary 1st half.

fair enough he got the drop goal under pressure but it was only 20 yards out .

he seems to slice far too many penaltys from the side of his boot and make about 10 yards.

myflipflops

Lawrence Shy Climber wrote: »

he exploited shane Williams so badly that I dont think he will start on the Lions.
.

This is a very fair point.

It was a fascinating game in terms of Lions selection. Some nailed down starting places (O'Connel, O Driscoll, Byrne before the injury) while others dropped down the order (O'gara for me, martyn Wlliams & Shane Williams)

Hippo

The dg may have been only 20 yards out but he executed it at a crucial time under the most extreme pressure. His cross-kick was sublime. Sure, he had a pretty ordinary game otherwise, but you wouldn't have wanted anyone else attempting the dg.

Otacon

pwhite587 wrote: »

...while others dropped down the order (O'gara for me...

I disagree. I actually think the previous games in the Championship ruled him out of a starting spot, while this game ensures he has a place on the bench. He did not have a spectacular game, by any means, but it was an improvement over the last few games.

This post may be more suited to the Lions thread...

myflipflops

Otacon wrote: »

This post may be more suited to the Lions thread...

Would have got lost in there and i more want to talk about his performance on Saturday in itself as much as the effect it had on his Lions credentials. Obviously though, the 2 come hand in hand in many ways.

sdanseo

O'Gara is a fantastic player, just seemingly on a run of bad form. Interesting that when the pressure was on with that drop goal though, he produced and did so flawlessly....showed his true skill.

I'd like to see anyone of that calibre internationally put up with the media pressure - aside from BOD, he's had probably the most of it over the years. Don't blame him for geting a bit edgy.

crackity_jones

The OP has a point here. Taking a clear-headed and sober look at O'Gara's performance you'd have to say that he didn't help his chances of a Lions test selection one little bit.

I watched the game at home also. Wanted some peace and quiet and a chance to watch the game without the distractions you'll find in a pub. Celebrated the win afterwards and it was a genuinely great night, certainly after Dunne did his stuff at midnight.

Getting back to the O'Gara/Lions issue, I really can't see Ronan starting in any of the three tests. We might think that he took an immense amount of abuse on Saturday but it was only a taster of what he can expect from the Springboks this summer. They have some serious muscle right throughout the team and play the game at a level of intensity the northern hemisphere sides simply cannot match.

Incidentally, Peter Billis, writing in the Independent, has been highlighting regularly what the Lions can expect from this coming tour and it doesn't make pretty reading. From playing matches at high altitude -- they're not making the mistake they made in 1997 by playing all 3 games at sea level -- to the choice of talent they currently have available you would have to say that the Lions are very much second favourites.

I think a pretty good example of what O'Gara might expect would be last Autumn's test against New Zealand. Once again he was constantly targeted and even some of the 'smaller' backs like Muliaina sent him flying in one-on-one clashes.

The simple fact is that he has been good enough to get away with it in this Six Nations Championship but he simply doesn't have the defence and consistency in his kicking for the Lions series.

Question is, who does?

louthandproud

I thought he was super overall. Had a few bad moments particularly in the first half but he was being put under serious pressure and most of it illegal. We already know he is weak defensively but he is an out half after all and other skills are more important for a number 10 (even though I would like a tougher option in there).

From a tactical kicking perspective he executed almost flawlessly( as Goose mentioned above he probably has Shane Williams sitting on the bench for the Lions the way he exploited him, and Goose doesn't give ROG praise easily). I also though his distribution from the hand was excellent almost all of the time.

then what can you say about the sublime cross kick and the drop goal, absolute match winners. I had him out of the lions 1st 15 before Saturday but now I'd have him right in there as first choice.

Jackz

He is being targeted more lately than ever before due to the incredible distribution out of hand he has shown this year to add to his obvious ability with the boot.

zenmonk

He was destroyed in the first half and the pressure caused him to miss a pen and a garyowen into touch.
The fact that he turned it around is a testament to the guys character.
The drop kick will immortalise him further in Irish sport .
I would give him a 7/10.
(5/10 for 1st half and for second 9/10 )

TarfHead

louthandproud wrote: »

.. I had him out of the lions 1st 15 before Saturday but now I'd have him right in there as first choice.

In SA, all he needs is one bad moment in a game (was it Bay of Plenty in 2005 ?) and his Tour, and Lions career, is done.

louthandproud

TarfHead wrote: »

In SA, all he needs is one bad moment in a game (was it Bay of Plenty in 2005 ?) and his Tour, and Lions career, is done.

He still may have a Lions career now if that happened, so is it true necessarily? Also I don't think we have a better option(fit) in UK or Ireland right now.

Jones is my 2nd choice, more able for the physical stuff and perhaps has a better goal kicking ratio but doesn't have the hands or boot of ROG in open play IMHO.

Micky Dolenz

I thought ROG did all he could do and more. He certainlty spent a lot of time on his whole in the 1st half and must have been rattled by the constant pounding he got.

Pulling off that DG is why he is 5th highest pt scorer in world rugby and leading scorer in international and club rugby in Europe.

There are a few contenders for the lions 1st choice and lets not forget a small matter of an European cup to be played out yet.

ScholesyIsGod

He had a poor first half. He had a good second half its as simple as that. He made Tommy Bowes try and he scored the winning drop goal in the last minutes of the game, he showed his character and did the business when it mattered and thats all that counts in the end.

Webbs

louthandproud wrote: »

He still may have a Lions career now if that happened, so is it true necessarily? Also I don't think we have a better option(fit) in UK or Ireland right now.

Jones is my 2nd choice, more able for the physical stuff and perhaps has a better goal kicking ratio but doesn't have the hands or boot of ROG in open play IMHO.

Jones distribution is at least the equal if not better from hand than ROG particularly off the left hand. ROG would have better tactical kicking for the corners etc.

One thing and this is from a welshman so no axe to grind with any province stuff, but what I thought was poor from him was that when Byrne went off he didnt start kicking over Williams until the second half, which in my opinion would have been a coaches call not something ROG would have seen.
ROG has been OK this 6nations at best and if you think that Williams shouldnt be in the Lions test team because of his defence then the same would go for ROG

Hazys

Well done ROG, your second half performance was imense.

He had very good game, first half wasnt great but he wasn't the only one who played bad in the first half (even O'Driscoll lost the ball twice inside the Wales 22) but he never once ran from a tackle he was always there...u have to take your hat off to him for that.



That drop goal was not the most difficult kick on paper but with after a terrible year, a poor six nations, getting run at constantly for 80 mins, knowing u'd be the scapegoat if you missed and a kick to win the game, all this going through your head as you recieved the pass from Stringer...u did well lad.

Micky Dolenz

Hazys wrote: »

That drop goal was not the most difficult kick on paper but with after a terrible year, a poor six nations, getting run at constantly for 80 mins, knowing u'd be the scapegoat if you missed and a kick to win the game, all this going through your head as you recieved the pass from Stringer...u did well lad.

Probably a lot tougher when you need to score and a wall of red shirts running you down.

In the interview afterward he say he screamed at Strings to release the ball to him so he could take it on his right boot. He really stepped up when needed the most.



EDIT: great interview: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7957464.stm

Hazys

Although he did look ridiculous being the only one in a Wales for the celebrations :P

Fair duece to him for ruining over to console Jones str8 after the kick because he knew it could of easily been him

thomond2006

Lads, ffs, we won the grand slam for the first time in 61 years, why do we have to always to moan negatively about one of the greatest Irish sporting achievements this century? :mad::mad::mad:

Can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop debating ROG?? :mad::mad:

Micky Dolenz

thomond2006 wrote: »

Lads, ffs, we won the grand slam for the first time in 61 years, why do we have to always to moan negatively about one of the greatest Irish sporting achievements this century? :mad::mad::mad:

Can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop debating ROG?? :mad::mad:

Supporters will always discuss and analyze players even when they win. Nobody here has moaned about the great achievements of our team.
Whats with the :mad: about? Why even bother?

twinytwo

who gives a feck if he played good or bad we won the game and thats all that matters.... people need to grow up a little

kmick

he played poorly in the first half and we went in losing at half time.
He payed well in the second half and we won the game.
If he plays well we win games simple as that. He is pivotal. He has had some stinkers for Munster but he was a match winner yesterday.

outwest

will yee ever be happy. he was bad most the games this year. egnore the drop goal that won us the game he had a good game not great like poc or wallace. but did wat was needed. and i wud buy him a pint if i met him out.


we won a grand slam two days ago this sh*it please

Red Soup

Hazys wrote: »

Well done ROG, your second half performance was imense.

He had very good game, first half wasnt great but he wasn't the only one who played bad in the first half (even O'Driscoll lost the ball twice inside the Wales 22) but he never once ran from a tackle he was always there...u have to take your hat off to him for that.

I admire his mental strength in the second half, but he really made a mess of some things. His first-up tackles were woeful, he kicked when we had numbers INSIDE their half a couple of times and a lot of his passes weren't to hand.

That said, he did the needful in kicking through for Bowe, and the amazing drop goal, but substitute Wales targeting him for South Africa targeting him in the Summer, and I can't see any Lions coach picking him on current form, especially defensively.

Chucky the tree

He was very poor, still suprised to see have him ahead of Jones' i nthe lions team. But I've come to realise that no matter how badly he plays some people will still think he's the best man for the job.

louthandproud

Chucky the tree wrote: »

He was very poor, still suprised to see have him ahead of Jones' i nthe lions team. But I've come to realise that no matter how badly he plays some people will still think he's the best man for the job.

And some no matter how well he plays still can't see it!

Otacon

thomond2006 wrote: »

Lads, ffs, we won the grand slam for the first time in 61 years, why do we have to always to moan negatively about one of the greatest Irish sporting achievements this century? :mad::mad::mad:

Can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop debating ROG?? :mad::mad:

twinytwo wrote: »

who gives a feck if he played good or bad we won the game and thats all that matters.... people need to grow up a little

And I am sick of hearing this horse manure. This is a discussion forum. I have been on here praising him for his game, if you feel the same, do the same. But to tell others not to express their opinions is just wrong tbh.

Micky Dolenz

Otacon wrote: »

And I am sick of hearing this horse manure. This is a discussion forum. I have been on here praising him for his game, if you feel the same, do the same. But to tell others not to express their opinions is just wrong tbh.

Your spot on. these boys best ring Matt Copper and tell them STOP TALKING we won :rolleyes:

Johnnyjump

O'Gara must have been under huge pressure with all the talk in the media by the Welsh that he was the weak link!!
To put the vital drop goal over when it was most needed was the most important kick of his entire life. Nothingelse really matters. He did, like he has so many other times, when he was most needed.

Johnnyjump

Can't wait for the Grand Slammers to be welcomed home. I've heard that there's going to be a special welcome in Cork. I for one will be chanting O'Gara's name.

NickNolte

Just call it like it is. O'Gara had a poor first half. Having said this, he was being heavily targetted so he was under serious pressure (by much larger men - I still maintain O'Gara isn't big enough). His second half was much better and he finished the game brilliantly. He kept his cool for the drop goal right when we needed him. I'm pretty sure we all wanted to kiss his boots around the 78th minute!

mc23

Are we going to have a thread dicussing how Ronan O'Gara played after every game? This is getting dull.

louthandproud

The guy just kicked the winning drop goal in our first grand slam in 61 years and already a thread with people discussing how bad ROG is! Same on all you begrudgers.

gosplan

I thought he did quite well given the pressure and the fact that he was clearly a target for Welsh runners.

People say he can't tackle but I don't remember all that many line breaks down his channel. Admittedly, he was being helped out by Wallace but if his defence is a massive weak point in the Irish team, then it's one the best running team in the NH couldn't exploit.

He made a couple of kicking errors in the first half but then there were two near perfect kicks that just bounced the wrong way.

In the second half he set up one try, did practically the same again but Bowe just couldn't take it in the air and he also scored the biggest pressure kick of his career.

Don't get me wrong, he's not the player he was a couple of years ago but bar the one or two errors in the first half I really can't see to much to complain about.

People who say Jones is now the Lions OH are forgetting his out-on-the-full that gave us the last attacking platform and then missed final kick. Pretty much comparable to O'Gara's errors in my book.

old boy

i wonder how some of the posters on here would preform at work, and have the occasional stroke of genius, having being pumelled and taunted all day, your heart pumping at 200 beats per minute, he has bad d, misses some kicks, does not perfom to perfection every minute of every game, he makes makes bad decisions, ,he is not a machine, he is human, and to err is human. no one is dicesting paddy wallace, luke fitz, etc for mistakes they make

NickNolte

old boy wrote: »

i wonder how some of the posters on here would preform at work, and have the occasional stroke of genius, having being pumelled and taunted all day, your heart pumping at 200 beats per minute, he has bad d, misses some kicks, does not perfom to perfection every minute of every game, he makes makes bad decisions, ,he is not a machine, he is human, and to err is human.

He's a professional sportsman, people are allowed constructively criticise him. It's not a big deal. No need to jump to his defence.

thehighground

Even Denis Hickie feels it necessary to defend ROG now in his Irish Times blog today.

An insult to single anyone out but...

It's almost an insulting exercise to single out any one player over another, but I hope you will indulge me for singling out Ronan O'Gara. Its true that Brian and Paul have been Ireland's stand-out performers but does anyone think we would be celebrating this Grand Slam if Ronan had not been playing in any of the five games?

No player is above criticism, ROG included. However some of the things that have been said about him in the last few years have gone far beyond technical criticism.

He has always delivered when it matters and without him yesterday, the Grand Slam simply would not have happened. He takes the responsiblity when it matters and many other teams in world rugby just do not have players who will do that.

http://blog.ireland.com/itb_denishickie

ROG is now top point scorer in the 6Ns, he is 5th all-time points scorer in the world (with at least another 2 years of international rugby). Give him a break please.

NickNolte

Ronan O'Gara is Ireland's play maker. He's possibly the most important individual performer on the team. Of course he's going to come under more scrutiny than other players on the team. Particularly if he has a poor performance. It's not personal, it's just natural. Nobody is questioning what he's done for Ireland and I think everybody is more than appreciative of it. Professional sportsmen are not immune from criticism if they underperform though. To say otherwise is fascist. Abuse and/or ill informed criticism is, of course, wrong.

Dub973

Overall I beleive his general play and decision making was poor. He's a pro and should be able to play with the best. However he made up for it by having the b***s to kick that drop goal. His general play was poor though!

Judgement Day

Did we win the Grand Slam or not? I really can't get over the negativity about ROG on this forum - Jesus he won us the match what more do you want? One poster even reckons he's too small!! He was always going to be targeted by Wales but it wasn't just ROG that under performed in the first half and he more than made up for it in the second half didn't he? Quite apart from it being the match to decide the Grand Slam, it was without doubt one of the most exciting matches in recent years right up there with Munster's last outing against the All Blacks.

On another thread people are complaining about the homecoming event at the Mansion House - there really is no satisfying some people - and one wonders what would have happened if Stephen Jones had got the last penalty.

NickNolte

Judgement Day wrote: »

Did we win the Grand Slam or not? I really can't get over the negativity about ROG on this forum - Jesus he won us the match what more do you want? One poster even reckons he's too small!! He was always going to be targeted by Wales but it wasn't just ROG that under performed in the first half and he more than made up for it in the second half didn't he? Quite apart from it being the match to decide the Grand Slam, it was without doubt one of the most exciting matches in recent years right up there with Munster's last outing against the All Blacks.

On another thread people are complaining about the homecoming event at the Mansion House - there really is no satisfying some people - and one wonders what would have happened if Stephen Jones had got the last penalty.

Right... so players performances aren't open to scrutiny at all then? Come on now... stop taking it so personally. And it least be rational. People are pointing out that O'Gara had a poor first half, that's all. FWIW I thought O'Leary had a fairly poor first half as well and other players who were reasonably anonymous.

ROG has been an erratic player of late. That's just a fact. Nobody's having a go at him and nobody's denying all that he's done for Irish rugby. But the thought that professional players performances are beyond criticism is just wrong. So stop crying!