One Day Shutdown-March 30th

Tea-a-Maria

So the date has been set.Will you be following it?

I have a tutorial that day so I have misgivings about this,I need the marks for attendance.

Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to vote,but had I,I would have voted no on the referendum.For that reason,I question the whole order in the SU email that you must follow the boycott based on 'democratic vote'.In a college of over 20,000 it doesn't really seem like a democratic vote when only about 5,000 participated in the first place.

Any thoughts?

passive

I need to get the weekend off work for Vaticon, so I'll work monday morning/afternoon instead, and do some reading for the classes I'll miss after... Hmm... though this relies on some kind of assurance that there won't be class. Anyone know for certain if history and english lectures will be going ahead or not?

Pride Fighter

Is it the 30th of March? I'll head in, attend my classes and support the events they put on.

Tea-a-Maria

Hmm..I've just been told that the 30th is the same day the lecturers are going on strike.If that's right,this frankly seems a bit lazy.It's somewhat akin to the Cork players going on strike in winter when they know they won't be playing matches.

33% God

Tea-a-Maria wrote: »

Hmm..I've just been told that the 30th is the same day the lecturers are going on strike.If that's right,this frankly seems a bit lazy.It's somewhat akin to the Cork players going on strike in winter when they know they won't be playing matches.

You've never heard of a sympathetic strike then?
Lots of things are striking on that day, that's the entire point.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Tea-a-Maria wrote: »

Hmm..I've just been told that the 30th is the same day the lecturers are going on strike.If that's right,this frankly seems a bit lazy.It's somewhat akin to the Cork players going on strike in winter when they know they won't be playing matches.

The lecturers aren't trying to hurt the students in the same way the students aren't trying to hurt the lecturers. By synchronising, they minimise disruptions to each others routine.

Tea-a-Maria

I suppose that's the thing.What are the students trying to achieve through this strike?If it is disruption,then they might want to reschedule.

I certainly wouldn't describe it as a sympathetic strike since I'm fairly certain the lecturers aren't striking against the re-introduction of fees.:rolleyes:

33% God

Tea-a-Maria wrote: »

I suppose that's the thing.What are the students trying to achieve through this strike?If it is disruption,then they might want to reschedule.

I certainly wouldn't describe it as a sympathetic strike since I'm fairly certain the lecturers aren't striking against the re-introduction of fees.:rolleyes:

They are striking over the government's handling of the economic crises, that includes their proposal to introduce fees.

Brimmy

Didn't even know there was a strike.

If classes are on I'll go, if they're not I wont. There's no way I'm missing my lectures with only 5 weeks left of my last term. And that the second half of the core history module only begins on Monday and the entire exam is based on it.

rainbow kirby

I'll be working at home on my project that day anyway. Our classes are over (exams starting on Monday) - so I'll just be a good little code monkey and work from my comfy chair that day. I honestly don't care about the shutdown.

lemon_sherbert

I'm supposed to have a midterm that day.... wonder how that'll be arranged now

garethj

Tea-a-Maria wrote: »

So the date has been set.Will you be following it?

I have a tutorial that day so I have misgivings about this,I need the marks for attendance.

Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to vote,but had I,I would have voted no on the referendum.For that reason,I question the whole order in the SU email that you must follow the boycott based on 'democratic vote'.In a college of over 20,000 it doesn't really seem like a democratic vote when only about 5,000 participated in the first place.

Any thoughts?

Well the average national turnout for any election is roughly around half the electorate...sometimes less. The fact that you were able and encouraged to vote (you could hardly miss people canvassing and all the posters) means that it was democratic. If you decided not to vote then thats your prerogative and you can hardly complain about it afterwards either.

muffinman

garethj wrote: »

Well the average national turnout for any election is roughly around half the electorate...sometimes less. The fact that you were able and encouraged to vote (you could hardly miss people canvassing and all the posters) means that it was democratic. If you decided not to vote then thats your prerogative and you can hardly complain about it afterwards either.

+1

Frisbee

Have four hours of labs that day so I'll be going in

aequinoctium

a friend of mine is on erasmus in grenoble this year.

his college has been on strike since the first week of february.

both students and lecturers [ the students are anti-govt and the lecturers are anti-college adminintration ] are on strike together

it has come to the point that some students are having classes secretly and some lecturers are patrolling the hallways to make sure that no such classes are happening (as is their right to do so, it being france and all). moreover, those same lecturers have taken the available chairs out of every classroom so that these secret classes cannot go ahead.

it would be a shame if we are heading in this direction where those who want to learn are being forced not to....

i am against the strike and hope that other solutions can be found.
i'd rather pay to learn than put up with this non-sense.
for instance, who could forget dan o neill (campaigns officer) as he led a small protest outside the LIBRARY with a MEGAPHONE. i won't put up with that if it happens again!

Tea-a-Maria

garethj wrote: »

Well the average national turnout for any election is roughly around half the electorate...sometimes less. The fact that you were able and encouraged to vote (you could hardly miss people canvassing and all the posters) means that it was democratic. If you decided not to vote then thats your prerogative and you can hardly complain about it afterwards either.

Touché. I probably should clarify though,the point of this thread was not to complain about not voting,I accept that I have no entitlement to complain about that.

Regardless of whether or not I voted,the SU is still there to represent me as a student and it represents the college on a national level.I guess the main thing that bothers me is the vaguely aggressive way in which the SU are telling us to obey this strike,I just don't feel that it's their place to tell us when we can and can't be educated.

Exactly as aequinoctium said,I don't want UCD heading in the direction of those who want to learn being forced no to.

Seifer

I am going to completely ignore the SU strike. I heard nothing about it until I got the email telling us we were on strike. Obviously the canvassing and posters didn't reach far beyond the arts block as usual.
However if the lecturers are on strike there's not much point in going in is there? Can someone provide a link with the details of the lecturer strike?

Donny5

Tea-a-Maria wrote: »

So the date has been set.Will you be following it?

I have a tutorial that day so I have misgivings about this,I need the marks for attendance.

Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to vote,but had I,I would have voted no on the referendum.For that reason,I question the whole order in the SU email that you must follow the boycott based on 'democratic vote'.In a college of over 20,000 it doesn't really seem like a democratic vote when only about 5,000 participated in the first place.

Any thoughts?

I won't be observing it. The Hammer Hannon would never have put up with this crap.

33% God

Seifer wrote: »

I am going to completely ignore the SU strike. I heard nothing about it until I got the email telling us we were on strike. Obviously the canvassing and posters didn't reach far beyond the arts block as usual.
However if the lecturers are on strike there's not much point in going in is there? Can someone provide a link with the details of the lecturer strike?

I take it you walk down the main concourse with your eyes closed then?

jimi_t

Seifer wrote: »

I am going to completely ignore the SU strike. I heard nothing about it until I got the email telling us we were on strike. Obviously the canvassing and posters didn't reach far beyond the arts block as usual.
However if the lecturers are on strike there's not much point in going in is there? Can someone provide a link with the details of the lecturer strike?

Think its more SIPTU than a general strike

GobBass

lemon_sherbert wrote: »

I'm supposed to have a midterm that day.... wonder how that'll be arranged now

You doing the Micro midterm in Blackrock as well,lemon_sherbert? Me too.It's amazing how the students are actually disrupting their own education.The SU aren't doing themselves any favours by shutting down the place.In fact, I believe they shouldn't be given the power to do so.

I'll be under pressure that day and if Dan O'Neill is on that megaphone again shouting things that would be described as inaudible anyway or anyone else armed with low quality PA systems,I'll go to my classes (with or without lecturers,I couldn't care,at least they have a financial reason to protest) and barricade myself in the library doing a last-minute overlook until my time comes to get that bus to Carysfort so I have round two with Moore McDowell and prepare for Macro on Thursday.

fillmore jive

hmm where is this strike going to get us? maybe its just me but i don't really see the point of the strike. fee's seem to be coming in so instead of complaining about it (which will most likely get us no where), why dont the union actually do something to deal with it? not too sure if they have anything on, but something like hold avisory sessions, or try and get some type of financial assistance to those who cannot afford college? that's one of the reasons why i didnt bother with the elections this year: not one of the candidates had the balls to admit that fees are inevitable, so lets try and make sure that the introduction will run smootly.

im probably going to come in on the 30th of march anyway and attend whatever lectures/tutorials i have, cos i already paid €1000 to register and so might as well get my moneys worth.

33% God

jimi_t wrote: »

Think its more SIPTU than a general strike

It's a day of action. Most of the unions are striking, ASTI etc have all balloted.

Donny5

33% God wrote: »

It's a day of action. Most of the unions are striking, ASTI etc have all balloted.

Unlike those bodies, Student's Union membership is mandatory.

33% God

Donny5 wrote: »

Unlike those bodies, Student's Union membership is mandatory.

I don't care. I wasn't making a post in support of the strike, mandatory membership or the union


You should really consider getting a cart for that chip on your shoulder though.

convert

I can see the reason behind the strike and the SU asking that people don't attend classes, but when marks go for attendance and participation it's pretty hard to expect students, who need every possible percentage available, to forfeit them and go on strike. If the staff strike is on the same day, though, it's pretty handy.

Seifer

33% God wrote: »

I take it you walk down the main concourse with your eyes closed then?

I have little reason to be over by the main concourse any day of the week and when I am I don't particularly pay much attention to all the posters plastered on top of each other.

mad lad

I'll go to my classes (with or without lecturers,I couldn't care,at least they have a financial reason to protest) and barricade myself in the library

If UCD staff are on strike, the library (like other buildings) will be closed.

why dont the union actually do something to deal with it? not too sure if they have anything on, but something like hold avisory sessions, or try and get some type of financial assistance to those who cannot afford college?

O' Keefe stated that he was thinking of reintroducing fees last August. He has failed to announce what system (fees up front, loans, graduate tax etc) he wants introduced.

It's difficult to hold an advisory session when you've no idea what you're advising people on.

On the issue of financial assistance - UCDSU and USI have been campaigning on the Student Support Bill which, if implemented, would create a central grants authority taking control of delivery of the grants away from the local councils in order to ensure that they're delivered on time. The 2008 bill would also implement a number of other changes.

If the staff strike is on the same day, though, it's pretty handy.

The staff and student strikes are happening on the same day - Monday, March 30th.

Tayto2000

Guess it hinges on whether or not classes will be cancelled on the day or not. Even aside from the UCD end of things, it might be very hard to even get in for some people if the busses are off and there's demos in town.

If classes aren't cancelled, it's more complicated, especially for people who have credited classed to go to - I wouldn't be inclined to skip labs because ~25% of other UCD students think I should.

There's no guarantee that buildings will be closed, it depends on how many of the staff are unionised and whether those who aren't would be willing to cross a picket.

gubbie

GobBass wrote: »

You doing the Micro midterm in Blackrock as well,lemon_sherbert? Me too.It's amazing how the students are actually disrupting their own education.The SU aren't doing themselves any favours by shutting down the place.In fact, I believe they shouldn't be given the power to do so.

I sometimes wonder if people read the previous posts at all on this. As Dajaffa has already mentioned, the SU did not propose this. A normal group of students went around and collected the required amount of signatures to hold a referendum. One was held and passed by 80% by the students. The SU then, as a representative body for the students, compiled with the wishes of this 80% and put the wheels in motion.

GobBass wrote: »

(with or without lecturers,I couldn't care,at least they have a financial reason to protest) and barricade myself in the library doing a last-minute overlook until my time comes to get that bus to Carysfort

Our financial reason: reintroduction of college fee's

kmick

No strikes - use your vote in the local elections and then again the the next general election. Striking at the moment is ridiculous. Nobody on strike right now is going to get any sympathy from anyone.

Donny5

gubbie wrote: »

One was held and passed by 80% by the students.

That's not entirely true, now is it? Maybe 80% of those who voted voted for it, but not 80% of students.

muffinman

Donny5 wrote: »

That's not entirely true, now is it? Maybe 80% of those who voted voted for it, but not 80% of students.

It's the other people's fault for not voting.. All 22000 students had the right to vote on the referendum, and if they didn't it's their own fault. Maybe the 17000 people would have voted no to this ridiculous strike, but they didn't, and that's democracy..

Dave!

No I shalln't be observing this strike... Of course, if the lecturers are striking also, then I won't have a choice, but I don't think they'll all strike also will they? I have a lecture that morning with a guest lecturer, he presumably will still be there...

Red Alert

I think IFUT voted for strike action so they'll be on strike. Almost all lecturers are in that.

Donny5

muffinman wrote: »

It's the other people's fault for not voting.. All 22000 students had the right to vote on the referendum, and if they didn't it's their own fault. Maybe the 17000 people would have voted no to this ridiculous strike, but they didn't, and that's democracy..

A true democracy would allow us to opt out of the Student's Union. I'll vote with my attendance, irrespective of whether the lecturers show up.

Tayto2000

There's reportedly a lot of effort going on at national level to avert the strikes, so it might be called off at the last minute. At least the student strike would be more noticeable that way.

muffinman wrote: »

It's the other people's fault for not voting.. All 22000 students had the right to vote on the referendum, and if they didn't it's their own fault. Maybe the 17000 people would have voted no to this ridiculous strike, but they didn't, and that's democracy..

Democracy in UCD student politics is a bit different in that the required percentages for calling or passing a referendum are very low. 3.5% in signatures to require a referendum, then the maximum turnout required to pass something is 12.5% and that's only constitutional matters, for most other things it's 10%. And a consultative referendum doesn't have a required minimum.

So essentially, it's possible for a turnout of 2200 students to attempt to direct 22,000 students. Wagging the dog? To a certain extent but of course everyone is free to ignore the whole thing which then of course feeds into the eternal 'the SU is out of touch and irrelevant' arguments...

Maybe the first step to making the SU more relevant to the student body as a whole would be to increase the required % to validate votes on such issues... Proper engagement with students would then be required to get the required turnout and get things done, and opponents might feel less inclined to query the validity of the result.

1968

UCD SIPTU Education branch and UCDSU will be holding a one day strike on Monday, March 30th 2009. The former against the Pension Levy, the latter against the proposed reintroduction of third level fees.

---

The Education Branch of SIPTU has voted overwhelmingly for industrial action on March 30th.

* 80 percent of members voted for industrial action and 18 percent against.

* 88 percent voted for the Education Branch proposal for the industrial action to be focused on the withdrawal of the pension levy.

* 61 percent voted for strike action and 34 percent against.

- It is not clear what the distinction between industrial action and strike action is but members may have felt that the word strike action implies a longer term all out strike. Nevertheless, whatever the interpretation there was also a clear majority for 'strike action'

* 92 percent voted to support the ICTU's ten point plan for economic recovery.

Seven days notice has now been issued to UCD, TCD, NCAD, DCU where a withdrawal of labour will take place.

Pickets will be placed from early in the morning and will last until the evening on Monday

The UCD Section Committee is meeting tomorrow Tuesday and will select a strike committee from its membership to co-ordinate the action.

----

One Day Education Shutdown Against Fees - as voted for by the students of UCD

Monday, March 30th

The shutdown will consist of a student strike and activities on campus against fees, including a rally at the lake, at 1pm.

Breezer

IMPACT have (narrowly) voted against the strike. I wonder where this leaves UCD?

From a completely selfish point of view, I'm really not looking forward to this. It's gonna be my first full day in a hospital. Being plunged into a completely new, very busy setting where you're nobody's top priority sounds stressful enough at the best of times. If half the country is out protesting it's really not gonna help.

mad lad

I have a lecture that morning with a guest lecturer, he presumably will still be there...

Then you and the lecturer can stand outside a locked building :rolleyes:. If staff are on strike, nothing will be open.

I think IFUT voted for strike action so they'll be on strike.

IFUT voted in Favour: 67.7%
Against: 32.3%

IMPACT have (narrowly) voted against the strike

IMPACT need a two-thirds majority to go on strike. They were 1% short of the 66% mark.

The whole thing could be called off. ICTU were on RTE this morning saying they would call off March 30th if negotiations were started, IBEC are calling for negotiations, Gilmore has called for them and for the strikes not to go ahead - it's up to the government. ICTU exec meets on Wednesday night to decide what's going to happen. If the government says it's up for entering negotiations, ICTU will call everything off.

Breezer

mad lad wrote: »

IMPACT need a two-thirds majority to go on strike. They were 1% short of the 66% mark.

Yes, I know, that was why I said "narrowly."

Mr.Nice Guy

I'll probably be observing it for Monday morning whatever happens. :pac:

mad lad

Yes, I know, that was why I said "narrowly."

You said they "narrowly voted against", which isn't accurate since a clear majority voted in favour of going on strike (65%).:p

Unfortunately it was 1% short of the amount needed.

delta_bravo

1968 wrote: »

Pickets will be placed from early in the morning and will last until the evening on Monday

Any idea if these will be placed outside the buildings or just at the entrances?

If buildings & services go on strike i suppose the campus buildings will have to be closed for health and safety reasons as a precaution.

Red Alert

Often what happens in large facilities like UCD is an administrative decision is taken to close places, for health & safety reasons.

As a PhD student who does theoretical stuff I can just work from home that day... when I was in undergrad I don't think I'd pass a picket unless it was something like an exam or lab that I got credit for attending. It's not fair to ask people not to go to things that might ultimately affect their degree.

convert

What about the exams that are scheduled for that day?

Thomas_S_Hunterson

convert wrote: »

What about the exams that are scheduled for that day?

NGs will be awarded and you'll have to repeat.

NU8

convert wrote: »

What about the exams that are scheduled for that day?

I have an exam that day as well, do you reckon it will go ahead as planned or be rescheduled. It's in Blackrock if that makes any difference?

delta_bravo

NU8 wrote: »

I have an exam that day as well, do you reckon it will go ahead as planned or be rescheduled. It's in Blackrock if that makes any difference?

Well its probably an mcq or something is it? The invigilators for those are usually grad students so theyre only on temp a contract, but the important thing is if buildings and services arent going to open up the place there aint going to be an exam

princess-sprkle

if there is classes on, I'm going. if not, I'll stay at home in bed. sums up my feelings to the whole thing.

muffinman

convert wrote: »

What about the exams that are scheduled for that day?

I have a midterm in ECON10010 and an announcement went up on bb today giving us all the details of it so it looks like they're planning on it going ahead.. In carysfort and science block so i dunno...