Squats and Deads on the same day?

floggg

Just wondering what people think of doing squats and deadlifts on the same day. Have been doing so for the last month or so. Its tough going, but have been getting throguh it ok. However, i have noticed recently that my form on each is starting to slip. I know that part of it is due to me increasing the weight on each, and cheating on the form to make gains. Will drop some off and focus on form more.

At the same time, doing 5 x 5 squats takes it out of you, so i would have tired myself a bit by the time i get to deads. Should i consider seperating them, or am i making excuses for my poor form.

If you would suggest splitting them, how would you rearrange the following program to seperate them? I'm pretty happy with the program other than this aspect, so i would like to make as little change to it as possible.

Here's my schedule at the mo - 3 day split.

Day 1
Bench - 5 x 5
Incline DB Press - 5 x 5/Incline DB Flies - 3 x 10 (i mix it up a bit)
Dips - 3 x as many as i can do
Seated DB Curls - 3 x 10
Lying Tricep Extensio - 3 x 10
DB Concentration Curls - 3 x 10

Day 2
Squat - 5 x 5
DB Lunge - 5 x 5
Deadlift - 5 x 5
Calf Raise - 3 x 10
Hamstring Curl - 3 x 10

Day 3
Chin ups (as many as i can do - made it on to two sets a day recently)
Lat Pull Down - 3 x 10 (may replace this with low rows now that i am doing a decent amount of chins)
Bradley Press - 5 x 5
One Arm DB Row - 5 x 5
One Arm DB Shrugs - 3 x 10
Reverse Incline Flies - 3 x 10.

the drifter

ive done this....its gut busting but if youve a good ability to recover you should be fine..

Killme00

floggg wrote: »

Day 3
Chin ups (as many as i can do - made it on to two sets a day recently)
Lat Pull Down - 3 x 10 (may replace this with low rows now that i am doing a decent amount of chins)

Why not just replace both with Pullups?

In relation to sqaut and dl, i do both on the same day. Its a killer

Transform

agreed on the chin ups/pull ups

I would drop the lunges on the leg day if you stop progressing on squat and deadlift and then drop the leg curl after that if you again stop progressing i.e. weight your lifting not going up.

Brian?

Would it not be better to deadlift on your back day?

floggg

briankeating wrote: »

Would it not be better to deadlift on your back day?

that's what i thought previously, and had been doing, with no ill effect. However was told by somebody that i shouldn't, as it was more appropriate to group it with lower body exercises.

Brian?

floggg wrote: »

that's what i thought previously, and had been doing, with no ill effect. However was told by somebody that i shouldn't, as it was more appropriate to group it with lower body exercises.

As a matter of interest, who told you that?

The reason I do it on a different day to squats is that both are great for the quads and glutes, plus both can be hard on the lower back. I reckoned doing them on the same day would hamper progress on both lifts. I am perfectly willing to accept that I'm wrong though.

hardtrainer

I always almost always do deadlifts with my back and keep squats for my legs day. Deadlifts are more taxing on the lower back anyway, so I prefer to do them when I'm doing my back. If you think doing squats and deads on the same day is hampering progress, just split them up.

cowzerp

I,ve had arguments on this here before, but as far as im concerned Squats and deads are both leg exercises and the low back works hard on both when the weight is heavy, They should be trained together on leg day assuming you have enough in the tank..

When i talk about back exercises i'd focus on mid to upper back exercises, legs are lower body and naturally heavy in the core!

and obviously chest is frontal upper body!

Some people just have different definitions of these!

eroo

I do them on the same day. It's really tough, but who doesn't like a challenge!?

Brian?

cowzerp wrote: »

I,ve had arguments on this here before, but as far as im concerned Squats and deads are both leg exercises and the low back works hard on both when the weight is heavy, They should be trained together on leg day assuming you have enough in the tank..

When i talk about back exercises i'd focus on mid to upper back exercises, legs are lower body and naturally heavy in the core!

and obviously chest is frontal upper body!

Some people just have different definitions of these!

Thats a big assumption.:)

I doubt I could deadlift my 5RM 5x5 after squatting 5x5 of my 5RM.

cowzerp

hardtrainer wrote: »

If you think doing squats and deads on the same day is hampering progress, just split them up.

O'k-If your training goal is purely to lift as heavy as possible in stuff such as power lifting then this is worth thinking about, but for most people who are just looking for a work out then this would not make sense imo!

Reyman

You're probably ok doing both on the same day, but I'm not sure why you need to ?

If you have to do both - do the squats first and then the dead lifts, not the other way around. There's no point in sinking into a deep squat with a tired back - that can be risky!

cowzerp

Reyman wrote: »

You're probably ok doing both on the same day, but I'm not sure why you need to ?

Because there both leg exercises, you can but dont have too! choices!

Reyman wrote: »

If you have to do both - do the squats first and then the dead lifts, not the other way around. There's no point in sinking into a deep squat with a tired back - that can be risky!

Thats good advise..

Hanley

Tbh I think you can squat and deadlift on the same day. I've been doing it recently and like it a lot. I think the biggest benefit is the increased recovery time.

Obviously you can do like 5x5 on both exercises, but I see no reason why you can't push your squats and still have one or two good heavy sets left in your for deadlifts too.

floggg

briankeating wrote: »

As a matter of interest, who told you that?

It was advice i was given before on the interweb of all places. The logic was basically the same as cowzerp's below.

cowzerp wrote: »

I,ve had arguments on this here before, but as far as im concerned Squats and deads are both leg exercises and the low back works hard on both when the weight is heavy, They should be trained together on leg day assuming you have enough in the tank..

I have been getting through it without too much problem. Obviously, i'm shattered afterwards, but i still enjoy leg day more than any other. I guess i'm a bit of a masochist, but i guess anybody who likes to lift weights must be a bit masochistic. Conversely, back and shoudler day is my least favourite, i don't really feel too drained after it.

Its more that i just feel i would be able to put more into each by splitting them out, and gett more out of them as a result.

Also, i always do squats first for the reason above. Its far easier to drop the bar on deads if my back gives out than squats!

Transform

Hanley wrote: »

Tbh I think you can squat and deadlift on the same day. I've been doing it recently and like it a lot. I think the biggest benefit is the increased recovery time.

Obviously you can do like 5x5 on both exercises, but I see no reason why you can't push your squats and still have one or two good heavy sets left in your for deadlifts too.

totally agree - doing both on the same day gives your lower back a full week to recover before you go again.

Also why do 5 sets on deadlifts after squats - maybe do 2 hard sets and 3 warm up sets and leave it at that.

The basis of your choice should always be am i getting stronger? If not then adjust sets and reps down to allow for more recovery. After all your strength my increase by say 300% but it does not mean recovery has gone up by the same amount.

floggg

Transform wrote: »

totally agree - doing both on the same day gives your lower back a full week to recover before you go again.

Also why do 5 sets on deadlifts after squats - maybe do 2 hard sets and 3 warm up sets and leave it at that.

The basis of your choice should always be am i getting stronger? If not then adjust sets and reps down to allow for more recovery. After all your strength my increase by say 300% but it does not mean recovery has gone up by the same amount.

That does make sense. Would you recommend doing that for both squat and deads or just deads. Or could i do 5 full sets on one the first week and then 5 on the other the next?