General Draft 09 Discussion Thread

Hazys

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2009/03/report_pats_wor.html

Patriots worked out Pat White. Pat White looks as equally capable of playing QB or WR in the NFL, he has the most rushing yards for a QB in CFB history and also has a higher pass completion % than fellow alumni Marc Bulger.

Why are the Patriots looking at him? They certainly dont need a QB but maybe a WR to develop behind Moss, Welker, Galloway, Lewis, Aiken but i suspect White wont be around past the 2nd round and if the Patriots were going to draft a WR to develop I couldnt see them drafting one in the 2nd round.

I know Belichick loves versitlity, so is he hoping to develop a new Belichick Wildcat Offense with White? I wouldn't put it past him as people were saying Tim Tebow wouldnt cut it in the NFL as a Pro type QB that he wouldnt get past Bill's pick in the 1st round and that Bill would love to build a playbook around Tebow and Brady.

Then again BB might just be messing with everyone's heads b4 the draft. Your thoughts?

eagle eye

Well Galloway is only a very short term fix at 37 years of age. Randy might have years left in him but you never know and he's 32, Lewis is only 29 but he will never be anything more than a 3rd or 4th choice receiver imo.
I think its still a position we need to address but that addition might signal putting it off for another year. I said already that if we were going to take a WR at any stage I'd like it to be Britt. It depends how you look at the draft but he should be available with our second pick.
I firmly believe that our first pick is going on a LB, the only question is who.

You are right though, Belichick loves those multi postition players and its very possible we take White, he can be used as a 3rd or 4th choice receiver and saves a roster spot as he can be used as backup QB. He would also be very useful on special teams. What were his numbers? Did he work out as a WR or QB? I know he took the QB route at the combine.

Pyjamarama

Pat White will be lucky to be drafted inside the 3rd round. The guy has displayed a huge amount of ignorance by refusing to workout at WR during both the combine and his pro day. He has ZERO chance of playing QB in the NFL. He might make the grade as a slash type player but really that never works out. I think Bill might take him in the 3rd but no way he takes him in the 2nd.

I find all the talk about White on ESPN etc pretty annoying and to be honest i'm dreading next years Tebow saga...

Chucky the tree

It looking more and more likely the Lions go OT with the first pick, most likely Jason Smith.

eagle eye

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It looking more and more likely the Lions go OT with the first pick, most likely Jason Smith.

Where are you getting that from? Anywhere I read is saying that Stafford is certain now.

tallaghtoutlaws

I talked to a college coach in MI yesterday a friend of friend and he said apparently the Lions havent made up their mind yet and all the speculation is just that speculation. It could be either or. But the general consesus among is a QB. Who knows though. Thats the beauty of the draft the surprises thrown up every year.

Peyton Manning

I would be absolutely shocked if the Lions didnt pick Stafford. Not even they are capable of a draft blunder of such proportions.

Karlusss

Why is Stafford so much better than Sanchez? Some mock-drafters (like Charles Davis) have Sanchez as a better prospect objectively speaking, but Detroit still picking Stafford.

tallaghtoutlaws

Karlusss wrote: »

Why is Stafford so much better than Sanchez? Some mock-drafters (like Charles Davis) have Sanchez as a better prospect objectively speaking, but Detroit still picking Stafford.

Alot believe the fact Stafford has more playing time under his belt than Sanchez that this will help his progression more. I personally prefer Stafford over Sanchez myself.

Hazys

Wow just read something that shocked me.

The Lions have begun contract negoiations with players for the 1st pick a month ahead of the draft...Lions doing something smart

They are rumoured to be talking to Jason Smith first, but i guess this gives no indication who they want as theyll probably end up playing a couple of people off each other to get the best deal

Sea Devils

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Pat White will be lucky to be drafted inside the 3rd round. The guy has displayed a huge amount of ignorance by refusing to workout at WR during both the combine and his pro day. He has ZERO chance of playing QB in the NFL. He might make the grade as a slash type player but really that never works out. I think Bill might take him in the 3rd but no way he takes him in the 2nd.

I find all the talk about White on ESPN etc pretty annoying and to be honest i'm dreading next years Tebow saga...

Pat White was rated #11 by DraftCountedown and i have seen him as high as the 54th pick in the 2nd round.

For my money...I like Tom Brandstater from Fresno State. This guy absolutely lit up the combine and there was just as much talk about him as Pat White. Both guys looked great and made all of the throws. I prefer Tom due to his size, 6'5" and 220 Lbs vs 6' and 190 Lbs for Pat White. He would be a tough guy to bring down in the pocket...maybe like Rothleisburger in that way

Hazys

Compensation draft picks have been announced.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/23/2009-compensatory-draft-picks/

Patriots get a 3rd round pick, a 5th round pick and a 6th round pick. The Patriots now have 6 picks in the Top100!!!!! Cant wait for the first day of the draft. 3 Picks in the second round alone. Although i expect the Pats to trade a few of these and l8r ones off, can you see 6 rookies making the 53 man roster?

Here's a very good article on the importance of the comp picks: http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=184588

jdivision

Archimedes wrote: »

I would be absolutely shocked if the Lions didnt pick Stafford. Not even they are capable of a draft blunder of such proportions.

Hmmm.... probably because Stafford knew that if he came out next year he wouldn't be one of the first three QBs selected. Probably becasue the Lions went through 5 QBs last year cos they couldn't keep them upright. An LT has to be the pick imo. Lions will be crap anyway next year and will then be able to pick one of the seniors who are more accomplished and more likely to succeed.

tallaghtoutlaws

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-9-44/Finding-context-in-the-Stafford-debate.html

Interesting reading. According to the above Stafford is going to be an epic fail

btw Tom Brady scores a 24.9 for those who are wondering

elrosseregon

the lions mightn't be as bad as everyone thinks they will be, they have added Mo Morris and Julian Peterson, a Pro Bowl linbacker the last 3 years from the Seahawks (not too happy about Peterson going as a Seahawks fan). If the Lions take Stafford, it does leave Eugene Monroe and Jason Smith which will be a better player for any team than I think Stafford will be and hopefully one of them will fall to the 4th pick:D

jdivision

Problem for Peterson is that they have no d line to help him out!! He and Sims will make a lot of tackles next year, but only because the d line (at the moment anyway) looks so bad.

LuckyLloyd

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-9-44/Finding-context-in-the-Stafford-debate.html

Interesting reading. According to the above Stafford is going to be an epic fail

btw Tom Brady scores a 24.9 for those who are wondering

Scores for the following (without double checking!):

Pat White (WVU): 41.03
Nate Davis (Ball St.): 23.30

So you have a metric that contends Stafford is likely to perform significantly worse in the NFL than White and Davis, and thus flies in the face of the opinions held by the vast majority of NFL pundits and analysts. Particularly when White and Davis are not 100% guaranteed to make an NFL roster as a QB for the 2009 regular season.

Interesting to say the least.

RichTea

Packers are switching to a 3-4 and will draft with this in mind. Expect either a Lineback or a big defensive tackle to be picked up.

Don't be surprised to see Jenkins or another cornerback drafted by Green Bay though. McCarthy knows that the Woodson and Harris tandem is aging rapidly, Woodson will be playing nickel a bit this year. A high quality corner would be a logical investment.

eagle eye

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Scores for the following (without double checking!):

Pat White (WVU): 41.03
Nate Davis (Ball St.): 23.30

So you have a metric that contends Stafford is likely to perform significantly worse in the NFL than White and Davis, and thus flies in the face of the opinions held by the vast majority of NFL pundits and analysts. Particularly when White and Davis are not 100% guaranteed to make an NFL roster as a QB for the 2009 regular season.

Interesting to say the least.

I like Davis, I remember we both liked him last year, got to see a lot of his games as they were midweek and there was no alternative games to watch.
I love the way they just go back the suitable time period, I have a funny feeling that if you went back another couple there would be some very successful minus QB's like Steve McNair for instance.

I haven't bothered to do the math by the way on anybody.

Sea Devils

^^ Yeah I like Davis as well. He's got a few knocks apparently though in his size even though he is taller then Brees and Garcia and he has earned comparassions to last years Andre Woodson in that his stock could rapidly drop but he had an excellent pro day and is apparently very mobile. If the Niners are to draft a QB in the later stages him Josh Freeman or Tom Bradstater would suit us nicely.

jdivision

Rhett Bhomar's a guy worth keeping an eye on.

jdivision

RichTea wrote: »

Packers are switching to a 3-4 and will draft with this in mind. Expect either a Lineback or a big defensive tackle to be picked up.

Don't be surprised to see Jenkins or another cornerback drafted by Green Bay though. McCarthy knows that the Woodson and Harris tandem is aging rapidly, Woodson will be playing nickel a bit this year. A high quality corner would be a logical investment.

I agree. I think they'll go DB in first round and try to find a nose and OLB after that.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

I like Davis, I remember we both liked him last year, got to see a lot of his games as they were midweek and there was no alternative games to watch.
I love the way they just go back the suitable time period, I have a funny feeling that if you went back another couple there would be some very successful minus QB's like Steve McNair for instance.

I haven't bothered to do the math by the way on anybody.

McNairs maths work out at 250 something by that chart as his college career completion rate was 155.5 which twice that of most of those guys on that list and the amount of yards he threw broke records.

So he would be on the successful list.

eagle eye

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

McNairs maths work out at 250 something by that chart as his college career completion rate was 155.5 which twice that of most of those guys on that list and the amount of yards he threw broke records.

So he would be on the successful list.

Meh, I'm not sure he did not have a great start and threw plenty of intercepions and ran the ball an awful lot. He was also not in a BCS team.

You could well be right though, but Stafford is losing huge on his first season when he wasn't a starter.

Royal Seahawk

elrosseregon wrote: »

the lions mightn't be as bad as everyone thinks they will be, they have added Mo Morris and Julian Peterson, a Pro Bowl linbacker the last 3 years from the Seahawks (not too happy about Peterson going as a Seahawks fan). If the Lions take Stafford, it does leave Eugene Monroe and Jason Smith which will be a better player for any team than I think Stafford will be and hopefully one of them will fall to the 4th pick:D

How about Stafford at no.4 if he falls to us? Hasselbeck ain't gonna be around forever....

eagle eye

Royal Seahawk wrote: »

How about Stafford at no.4 if he falls to us? Hasselbeck ain't gonna be around forever....

Yeah I think he is a cert for the top five. I think the Lions are going to take him anyways but the Seahawks will definitely go for it at 4 imo. As I said before, the Browns might even take him at 5 given what Mangini has said about his present QB's.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah I think he is a cert for the top five. I think the Lions are going to take him anyways but the Seahawks will definitely go for it at 4 imo. As I said before, the Browns might even take him at 5 given what Mangini has said about his present QB's.

Mangini is a clown.

Royal Seahawk

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah I think he is a cert for the top five. I think the Lions are going to take him anyways but the Seahawks will definitely go for it at 4 imo. As I said before, the Browns might even take him at 5 given what Mangini has said about his present QB's.

What did Mangini say about Quinn? Does he not rate him?

eagle eye

Royal Seahawk wrote: »

What did Mangini say about Quinn? Does he not rate him?

He didn't say anything about any particular one of them, he said the the QB job is wide open that there is no standout starter. I'm not sure of his exact words but something along those lines.

Chucky the tree

what else is he going to say? Considering at the time he said it he probaly hadnt seen Quinn take a snap or seen him in practice. I cant see him coming in and saying X is the starting QB when he hasnt worked out with any of the QB's.

eagle eye

Chucky the tree wrote: »

what else is he going to say? Considering at the time he said it he probaly hadnt seen Quinn take a snap or seen him in practice. I cant see him coming in and saying X is the starting QB when he hasnt worked out with any of the QB's.

Its still not certain that they will both still be there by the start of the season. Everytime he gets asked that question he starts talking about how he and the GM are interested in improving the team but not specifically at QB.
I really think he wants rid of one of them and bring somebody else in.

elrosseregon

I could see Mora drafting Stafford for us at 4 but they might wait until next year when there are a bigger number of talented QBs projected to come out. Drafting either Monroe or Smith this year will allow them to play elsewhere on the OL while big Walt plays LT. I'd say Jones might retire before Hasselbeck does

raven136

Say the Cutler thing doesnt get worked out in Denver how will that affect the draft do people reckon?

If the Lions get him then who will they go for and/if any other team picks him up will it affect the positions majorly.

LuckyLloyd

Sea Devils wrote: »

^^ Yeah I like Davis as well. He's got a few knocks apparently though in his size even though he is taller then Brees and Garcia and he has earned comparassions to last years Andre Woodson in that his stock could rapidly drop but he had an excellent pro day and is apparently very mobile. If the Niners are to draft a QB in the later stages him Josh Freeman or Tom Bradstater would suit us nicely.

The article you linked indicated that only one NFL team (the Colts) sent a scout to his pro day work out. Doesn't bode well for his chances of being drafted.

Seems odd to me of course. The guy looks to have good physical tools, a good arm and by all accounts is a hardworking kid and well liked by his teammates. So what if he's 6'2"? Have they not heard of Drew Brees?

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Mangini is a clown.

TRUTH

Last year was incredibly frustrating as a Jets fan. I mean mega life tilting.

Karlusss

A guy can be short and make it if he's really exceptionable. Maybe this guy's tape (or his arm, or his mobility, which you'd assume he'd need if he's short) is only good.

Colts don't seem desperately in need of a new franchise quarterback very soon either...

Lirange

Karlusss wrote: »

Why is Stafford so much better than Sanchez? Some mock-drafters (like Charles Davis) have Sanchez as a better prospect objectively speaking, but Detroit still picking Stafford.

It's not considered a good draft year at the QB position. Between the two I'd prefer Sanchez. It was smart of him to come out this year given the QB draft options next year (not just limited to McCoy and Bradford). They're both probably projects that aren't going to be ready to step in soon.

I know there's a tendency to compare him with Leinart but apart from playing at the same school they're very different. He's no more similar to him than to Palmer or Cassel. Sanchez has more physicality and is a bit more hard nosed. I remember watching the highlight compositions of Leinart prior to the draft and something I noticed is that he threw so many screens, dinks, dumps, and short sideline routes. I came away more impressed by the USC blocking clinic than with Leinart. I watched several games with USC but I didn't realize the extent of it until I saw his seasons compiled together. Sarkisian favoured the running game and didn't unleash Sanchez until well into the season. Partially because of their unbelievable depth at tailback and their relative lack of big play receivers. But also because of Sanchez's injury out of training camp. But overall he did well and demonstrated a consistent ability to get the ball down the field and make plays.

Leinart was considered one of the top preps in the state coming out of high school but didn't generate much ink. Sanchez in contrast was not only rated the best QB in the nation but the best player at any position by many publications earning several national HS player of the year nods. Yet Leinart left college with more notoriety and more hardware than Sanchez will. Yes I do realise high school is not a good metric for the NFL but it makes me wonder if the perception discrepancy is more about the winning aura than about the skill set. I do remember that scouts questioned some of Leinart's skills and some think this is why he came back for another season. But they also saw him as a winner. Still he dropped to 10th in the draft seven places behind Young. Sanchez hasn't had the same opportunity to showcase himself or the same level of experience. Yet Matt Cassel warmed the bench behind Leinart and look who is in the better situation today.

My worry with Stafford is his decision making. He has the tendency to do something great and follow it up with something stupid. He does tend to exhibit poor judgment under duress so he'll need to mature and develop a cooler head for the NFL. I can remember several plays against Alabama and ASU this past season that were just shockingly dumb for a guy about to go at the top of the draft.

Sea Devils

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The article you linked indicated that only one NFL team (the Colts) sent a scout to his pro day work out. Doesn't bode well for his chances of being drafted.

.

Well what I should have noted from the article was it came with a glowering report about Davis's arm

Davis completed 61 of the 70 passes he threw on drills that included short, medium and long tosses down the field. Five of the nine incompletions were drops by receivers.
. . .
Davis showed his trademark arm strength on many throws, the ball zipping into receivers' hands with a profound "thump." He also showed the classic touch he displayed during his career on high-arcing deep passes down the middle of the field

.

Chucky the tree

I think the lions should go OT or Curry with the first. Either way we'll know before draft day anyway.

eagle eye

Sea Devils wrote: »

Well what I should have noted from the article was it came with a glowering report about Davis's arm

.

The things they don't like about him is that he uses gloves all the time and does not use the laces when he throws. And then the fact that he is not as tall as they would like. He could still easily be a hugely successful QB in the NFL.

Karlusss

Kurt Warner wears gloves.

Sea Devils

eagle eye wrote: »

The things they don't like about him is that he uses gloves all the time and does not use the laces when he throws. And then the fact that he is not as tall as they would like. He could still easily be a hugely successful QB in the NFL.

Well the height shouldn't be an issue since he is taller then the QB's I already mentioned.. He is minimally (sp) shorter then Warner or Favre.

If anything the weakness I would be worried about Davis would be his ability to adopt from a Spread to an NFL offense.

barbar69

I strongly believe the Lions take Jason Smith then trade back into the first round to get Josh Freeman just like the browns did a couple of years ago.

tallaghtoutlaws

barbar69 wrote: »

I strongly believe the Lions take Jason Smith then trade back into the first round to get Josh Freeman just like the browns did a couple of years ago.

They dont need to trade back to get into the first round they already have a second pick in the 1st round. And Freeman will drop to the second round I think.

Hazys

The best and the worst teams at drafting in the last 3 years:

http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/08/nfl-draft-teams-lifestyle-sports-nfl-draft.html?feed=rss_forbeslife_sport

Patriots are considered the worst!!!!! Well its only over the last 3 years which excludes nearly all of our DL, QBs and OL players who where drafted before then. I suppose its a bit unfair to the Patriots because we have such a strong roster that its very hard for anybody past the third round to make it onto the team, even 1st rounds have to wait a year to start. But then again look at Kareem Brown, Chad Jackson and Garreth Mills not the best picks.

Karlusss

That list makes no sense because it just goes by who's left on the roster. Drafting well is about filling needs, not just adding players, and like you said, having a strong roster is obviously going to work against the Patriots or the Steelers on one of those lists. Patriots drafted Jarod Mayo last year - compare his performance with Vernon Gholston's one solo tackle as a top 10 pick, and you would be hard pressed to say they were the worst.

Karlusss

http://scoutingthesports.com/?p=2589

One of the worst mocks I've seen.

Some examples of terrible picks:

2. BJ Raji (DT) to the Rams - if the Rams don't take a Left Tackle after letting Pace go, it better be Aaron Curry or a quarterback... but Raji? Seriously? Never going to happen.

8. Donald Brown (RB) to the Jags - wow, because an undersized yet durable running back with the potential to be a big playmaker isn't clearly the most standout thing on the Jax roster already. Brown in the top 10 is also an insane reach.

13. Eugene Monroe (OT) to the Redskins - at 13? This guy will go top 5.

That many receivers and running backs going in the first round in general is also a bit unlikely, surely.

eagle eye

Just reading this excellent article from Don Banks. Its about those players that might or might not get drafted but who might make it in the NFL.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/04/07/welker/index.html

Lirange

Banks talks about looking for the next Welker ... speaking of which there's a WR from Texas who reminds me of Welker but has more speed. Jordan Shipley. He gets criticised for his lack of size just as Welker did. He was impressive in college. Not just for his performance but for the types of plays he made. I think he's worth more than scouts are projecting.

Edit: Just realised he petitoned for another year of eligibility and it was granted. He had been projected to go in the later rounds by most that prognosticated that far in the draft.

tallaghtoutlaws

Lirange wrote: »

Banks talks about looking for the next Welker ... speaking of which there's a WR from Texas who reminds me of Welker but has more speed. Jordan Shipley. He gets criticised for his lack of size just as Welker did. He was impressive in college. Not just for his performance but for the types of plays he made. I think he's worth more than scouts are projecting.

Edit: Just realised he petitoned for another year of eligibility and it was granted. He had been projected to go in the later rounds by most that prognosticated that far in the draft.

I was watching footage of shipley the other day have to say im a big fan. I think its a good thing for him to stay in college one more year. Gain that extra year of experience and be totally ready for what the NFL has to offer. He will defo be picked up next year. In a draft full of quality QBs you can ban on someone taking a guy like Shipley. Dude has amazing hands and would love to see him in a footrace with Welker .

Karlusss

Kansas City Chiefs picking up Zach Thomas from the Cowboys now potentially means that they could pass on Aaron Curry, who is projected by a lot of people to go there. Thomas, Derrick Johnson and Mike Vrabel is a decent LB corps and surely the Chiefs have bigger needs elsewhere, given where they're picking.

They could go OT now as well. That elite pool's gonna deplete very quickly, that's my prediction.

jdivision

Karluss, I think Thomas can't be relied on to play the whole season and Vrabel's only a one or two-year solution. They'll get a good quality OT in the second round, Beatty's a bit light but will probably still be there when they pick in the second round. Otherwise they could take somebody like Duke Robinson or Louis Vasquez to play guard in the third.