[Req] Ireland to the Continent: Cutting Costs and Hassle

FrCrilly

Hi All,

I am planning to buy a motor home with the intention of going to the Continent as cheaply and conveniently as possible. So far I have devised the below cost and time cutting plan. Can I ask experienced motor home owners if there are any aspects that they think are not viable or if they have any further suggestions on how to cut costs/hassle.

Thanks In Advance for all responses

1. Cutting Ferry Costs.
(a) Book well in advance and try to go when ferry crossings are cheapest.
(b) Take the ferry as a sole passenger with the minimum booking of one reserved seat. (Later down the road, pick up all guests at cheap Ryanair back end of nowhere airports that fly to/from Dublin). Correct me if I’m wrong, but I assume I would not be allowed to sleep and cook inside the motor home itself during the ferry crossing.

2. Getting from port to Destination Country
(a) I would try drive on motorways all night and then sleep inside the motor home itself during peak traffic times. This would involve parking and sleeping at petrol stations/motor stops. Is there any reason to believe I can’t do this? Is there anything I can do to reduce the diesel costs of the journey?

3. Pick Up Guests at Ryanair Airports
(a) After getting the hard part over by myself, I would pick up my guests at whatever Ryanair airports in the general locality that offer the cheapest flights from Dublin (and likewise drop them back to such airports for the return journey). The holiday starts here.

4. Handover to a partner
(a) Buying the motor home with a suitable partner (based in my Irish locality who I know and trust) could allow me not only to get the cost of buying the motor home down, but could also allow a co-operation efficiency as he/she could fly out at the end of my holiday and start their own holiday while I fly home (again, through cheap Ryanair airports). This would not only bring down the Ratio (Cost of getting the motor home to/from the Continent) : (Total No of Days the Motor home is on the Continent), but would also save me the hassle of a long drive and ferry crossing home. (As we’d live in the same locality, both our luggage requirements could be accommodated).

*Kol*

My comments on your ideas.

1. Cutting Ferry Costs.
(a) Book well in advance and try to go when ferry crossings are cheapest. True
(b) Take the ferry as a sole passenger with the minimum booking of one reserved seat. (Later down the road, pick up all guests at cheap Ryanair back end of nowhere airports that fly to/from Dublin). Correct me if I’m wrong, but I assume I would not be allowed to sleep and cook inside the motor home itself during the ferry crossing.
You are not allowed in the MH during the sailing. On the direct ferries to France you must take a cabin. I dont think the saving of going on your own would be more than what it would cost for the flights of the people you are going to pick up in France even with Ryanair. Lastly why would you spend fours days (2 going/2 coming back) of your holiday on your own?

2. Getting from port to Destination Country
(a) I would try drive on motorways all night and then sleep inside the motor home itself during peak traffic times. This would involve parking and sleeping at petrol stations/motor stops. Is there any reason to believe I can’t do this? Is there anything I can do to reduce the diesel costs of the journey? This sounds like hassle and not a holiday (to me). I guess driving a a reasonable speed will save diesel. I dont know how much diesel you would save without passengers but It may not be dramatically less than with them. You could weigh up the benefits of their company against fuel cost (depending on how much you like them, although you should like them if you are going on hols with them!!:))

3. Pick Up Guests at Ryanair Airports
(a) After getting the hard part over by myself, I would pick up my guests at whatever Ryanair airports in the general locality that offer the cheapest flights from Dublin (and likewise drop them back to such airports for the return journey). The holiday starts here. You should research the cost benefit of this more closely. Ryanair are not always a cheap option depending on the destination and time of year.

4. Handover to a partner
(a) Buying the motor home with a suitable partner (based in my Irish locality who I know and trust) could allow me not only to get the cost of buying the motor home down, but could also allow a co-operation efficiency as he/she could fly out at the end of my holiday and start their own holiday while I fly home (again, through cheap Ryanair airports). This would not only bring down the Ratio (Cost of getting the motor home to/from the Continent) : (Total No of Days the Motor home is on the Continent), but would also save me the hassle of a long drive and ferry crossing home. (As we’d live in the same locality, both our luggage requirements could be accommodated). That could be an idea that would work if you got the right person to go in with you on it. You dont have to limit it to two parties. It could be three or four. The MH could stay in France for the whole summer if you got enough people.

You have put a lot of thought into this which is good. I would be interested to hear the results of your research into the cost of going on your own and picking up guests from flights.

paddyb

I dont think that the others flying out with ryanair would work out cheaper. Also shop around for ferry prices, dont just the operators website.
I have used this travel agent a few times.
They are in the north and I just booked a ferry to the UK with them and it was almost half the price of going direct with the ferry company.

The sleeping during peak times actually sounds tiring for me! which defeats the purpose of the holiday and you also might miss out on some interesting sights along the way if it was dark.

3ps

I share my motorhome with a family member, we split everything 50/50 unless one of us damages it.

Easiest way to save costs is to travel off-peak..... I'm going to France last week in May and the ferry is 650 return incl cabin.... in July that would be 1500.


This year I am having 15 days in France, 4 berth ensuite cabin both ways, 2 5 star campsites, adn 3 days in Disneyland for 1600 including ferry, all fuel costs, campsite and disney tickets.

FrCrilly

Thanks for all responses.

Here’s an example of a notional trip to the South of France in May that I have put together.

According to ferry comparison website Aferry.com, I can take a motorhome from Rosslare to Roscoff 15/16 May and Return on 30/31 May reserving a single seat each way. This works out at €198 return.

http://www.aferry.com/quote/Booking/AFRYBook2.asp?A=A&SD=41077605401720090320142216

Ryanair Flights between Dublin and the South of France around this time include (taxes and charges included)*:

Dublin to Biarritz 20 May €33
Biarritz to Dublin 29 May €31

Dublin to Rodez 19 May €15
Rodez to Dublin 28 May €28

Dublin to Carcassonne 18 May €33
Carsassonne to Dublin 29 May €31

Dublin to Grenoble 19 May €34
Grenoble to Dublin 26 May €27

(Ryanair Destination Map: http://www.ryanair.com/site/IE/dests.php )

With the flexibility that motor homes allow to alter a route and the above air fares, I think it makes far more sense to allow all guests/family members to avoid the long journey back and forth and so enjoy their holiday all the more. Handing over to a partner at the end of the holiday could then reduce the hassle even further.

The overall logic of the above thinking is that instead of making one continental trip a year that can only be justified by staying out for a sizable period of ones holiday leave (eg 2 to 4 weeks), with this plan of cost and time efficiency it could become more viable to go out to different countries on the continent 2 or 3 times a year staying for 1 to 2 weeks each time. It could also allow the possibility of venturing further onto the continent that alternatively would be unviable.

As I said, I have no experience in motor home ownership. It’s just a few thoughts.

Thanks In Advance for any further comments.

* (Check out below way around Ryanair’s €5 each way credit card charge
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055466074&highlight=ryanair+voucher)

*Kol*

The pricing of the flights is attractive and saves the passengers the time driving to your destination. Although there is no cost saving as you can ad 1 more adult, 2 kids and a cabin to the ferry booking for the dates you have given and it would come out at the same price.

Dont forget Biarritz, Carcassone, etc are 10 hour minimum drive in a MH and given they are not the most fuel efficient vehicles on the road it will be another €120 to €150 of diesel each way (depending on your driving style and your MH MPG).

FrCrilly

*Kol* wrote: »

The pricing of the flights is attractive and saves the passengers the time driving to your destination. Although there is no cost saving as you can ad 1 more adult, 2 kids and a cabin to the ferry booking for the dates you have given and it would come out at the same price.

Adjusting the original ferry crossing to include an extra adult and 2 children with just a reserved seat each works out at €258.

I think a reserved seat each for a family is not within the best interests of a happy family holiday. Adjusting to add a 4 berth cabin works out at €638.

Three return Ryanair fares to the South of France could easily work out at approx €190. Comparing this to the difference in price between a family and a solo ferry crossing (€638 - €198) = €440, I think it makes incredible financial and practical sense to do the airline pickup option.

FrCrilly

Hi All,

For anyone half interested in my "Hand over to a partner to split the hassle of getting the motor home to and from the continent" idea, I have just done the following price observations on Ryanair.com for a suitable handover airport around the mid way point of my notional 2 week trip to Southern France (ie 22 May). The planes are subject to Ryanair's 20 to 25 minute turnaround times and it may not be possible to talk directly to your partner at the airport, however with both parties having their own set of keys and effective communication by mobile (or other) informing the arriving party where in the airport the motorhome is parked, I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

Hope you find it of interest.

21 May
Dublin to Rodez €15
Rodez to Dublin €5

23 May
Dublin to Grenoble €33
Grenoble to Dublin €27

22 May
Dublin to Carcassonne €38
Carcassonne to Dublin €31

22 May
Dublin to Biarritz €38
Biarritz to Dublin €31

*Kol*

FrCrilly wrote: »

Adjusting the original ferry crossing to include an extra adult and 2 children with just a reserved seat each works out at €258.

I think a reserved seat each for a family is not within the best interests of a happy family holiday. Adjusting to add a 4 berth cabin works out at €638.

Three return Ryanair fares to the South of France could easily work out at approx €190. Comparing this to the difference in price between a family and a solo ferry crossing (€638 - €198) = €440, I think it makes incredible financial and practical sense to do the airline pickup option.

Sorry i meant that the ferry for 2 adults and 2 kids and a cabin for those dates is €398. The cost of going alone (€198) plus 3 flights (approx €180) is more or less the same as everyone going on the boat.

boyoh

If you've done your research what are you asking? what you propose,sounds silly to me, why not just get the bus somewhere and leave the family at home:rolleyes:

hynesie

FrCrilly wrote: »

As I said, I have no experience in motor home ownership. It’s just a few thoughts.

I think you should take the motorhome for a trip in Ireland first and then re-evaluate. I love travelling in the camper, its good fun and I love the flexibility of changing the plan whenever the notion takes you.
We went to France last summer and slowly made our way down the coast over a 2 weeks and it was lovely. The idea of driving on the motorways at night to be in time for a Ryanair flight at the bottom of France sounds stupid to me, thats not a holiday.
Either all go in the van or all fly to France and rent a house.

FrCrilly

Thanks for all responses.

In relation to the “One person take the ferry” approach, I’m very much thinking of a parent (most likely a father) wishing to prevent his family the difficulties of sea and travel sickness or a lone traveller wishing to encourage friends to go on a holiday with him/her when otherwise it would not normally be the case. Once the Ryanair pick up is made, the freedom and relaxation of the motorhome holiday can start for everyone including the driver.

I have noticed LD lines do not offer a cabin option with their bookings, it seems to be a standard seat for everyone. This suggests to me that they are a no-frills provider designed to give you a cheap option of getting your vehicle onto the continent at the expense of luxury. Ryanair is a no frills airline that can at times give cheap flights but at the expense of central airport locations. While using both companies on their own can have large convenience/luxury drawbacks, I believe using both companies combined under my motorhome proposal can make these drawbacks obsolete.

Again, thanks in advance for any further responses.

*Kol*

You should put up a poll to see what the general concensus is about your idea. You probably get more responses.

I admire your thoughtfulness for your fellow travellers (its very saintlike and and apt you are FrCrilly). I could bear using Ryanair, it's the lone ferry crossing, standard seat and days lone driving that would turn me off it (and you have that to look forward to outbound and return).

FrCrilly

*Kol* wrote: »

I could bear using Ryanair, it's the lone ferry crossing, standard seat and days lone driving that would turn me off it (and you have that to look forward to outbound and return).

As I've said in both entry 1 (point 4) and entry 8 of this thread, swapping over with a partner at a Ryanair airport that has cheap flights both to and from Dublin on the same day would take out either the outbound or return lonely journey for each partner depending on which side of the holiday each agrees to take.
(ie you do a lonely out and then fly home
or
you fly out and then do the lonely journey home)

zagmund

I know someone who does something similar, but without the exchanging-at-the-airport-and-hoping-you-are-not-stopped-at-customs-before-you-hand-over-the-parking-ticket bit.

He does the hard driving to get there and the rest of the family fly in a few days afterwards. We considered it ourselves, before canning our trip to Europe this year.

Simply put, it makes a lot more sense to fly the kids over than to drag them through the ferry trip(s) and long days of motorway driving just so they can start their holiday 3 days after they leave.

I know that you can make the getting there part of the fun, but sometimes it's just not worth it. Having said that, it would be just a tad boring doing the long drives like that, but if it keeps the kids and the missus happy . . .

z

FrCrilly

zagmund wrote: »

I know someone who does something similar, but without the exchanging-at-the-airport-and-hoping-you-are-not-stopped-at-customs-before-you-hand-over-the-parking-ticket bit.

Hide the parking ticket in a pre arranged (hard for a thief to find) place inside the motorhome and both parties have their own set of keys. I think that would solve the problem.

FrCrilly

Just moved over from my European destinations value for money thread as it’s more appropriate here. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=59559698

3ps wrote: »

BTW Le Havre to Southern Spain to me is not a 2 week, but a 3 week holiday! It's alot of driving, you need to pace yourself for safety. And the whole point of a motorhome is to move around when you get there so even more driving.

Itinerary for Southern Spain Trip, Prices as at 22 March 09.
(Ryanair Route Map http://www.ryanair.com/site/IE/dests.php)

Partner A
Arrives at LeHavre on 26 Jul 09 at approx 16.45. Cost of crossing €221 (LD Lines)

Have choice of Ryanair Pickups in Southern France or Northern/Central Spain (Judge whichever you feel is most appropriate).
(Airport, Date, Time of Arrival, Fare from Dublin)

Carcassonne, 28 July, 13.35, €49
Girona, 27 July, 18.10, €43
Reus, 29 July, 15.45, €43
Madrid, 28 July, 09.30 or 21.35, €36

Partner A and family/group tour Spain heading south.

Swapover airport
Partner A and family/group fly back to Dublin.
Malaga, 12 Aug, 17.10, €48

Partner B Arrives
Malaga, 12 Aug, 23.50, €46

Partner B and family/group tour Spain heading north

Drop of Airports
Madrid, 26 Aug, 10.10, €21
Reus, 26 Aug, 10.20, €38
Girona, 26 Aug, 21.50, €38
Carcassonne, 26 Aug, 13.35, €61

Partner B meets Ferry at LeHavre on 28 Aug 09 at 23.59. Cost of crossing €112 (LD Lines)

3ps

I'm sorry I can't really follow that information.

How are you going to get to Le Havre???? Do you have to do 6 hours driving plus break from Holyhead?

from maps.google.com le havre to malaga = 1916 km 18h30mins

Based on experience I don't think you can do 2000km in 2 days in a motorhome.

In a motorhome you are only really safe at 100-110kph and the average will be less than that, so the google time is probably right.

If it was me I would do max 3 hours and then a 30 min break.

So that is 300kms in 3.5 hours. you need to do 6-7 of them so it's 21-22 hours of driving and breaks. To do it in 2 days would mean 10 hours approx of driving and breaks per day. Just about doable. Anything more is not safe IMO.

The more I think about it the more I think southern Spain is
- 1 day from Holyhead to some souther UK port
- 3 safe days down

that will make you tired.


I'm not trying to dissuade you from this. I don't have a problem driving lon distances but wouldn't want my kids to have to go through it so them flying ahead to be picked up is not a bad idea. But still... for your own sake it's alot of driving.

Most people who do the whole Italy or Southern Spain thing in motorhomes either take a 3+ week trip or are retired and are just touring around anyway.

3ps

just checked out that new Rosslare LD lines new route to Le Havre, the hours are very odd... you will be arriving in in the evening. You can't do high intensity all night driving surely. Your body will be in a natural pattern and you are at serious risk.

It is a cheap crossing though, but with limited dates.

Also, by my calculations you will spend €500 on diesel just on the drive up and down.

3ps

looking back over that info I can appreciate what you are doing. I personally have no issue with splitting up the parties etcetc and with the cost saving measures.

My only concern is that you would put too much pressure on yourself while driving. Motorhomes are not cars. They are 3-4 tonnes and if loaded to the limit then the brakes are working at their "limit" too. They do not have crash protection like cars. Anybody in the back will die in an accident.... it is just a bolted on plywood frame.

If I was in the above scenario I would not get more then 3-4 hours of interrupted sleep on the first crossing... and then I would feel tired driving, especially at nighttime.

If you are thinking you have 3-4 weeks to do this then please allow yourself extra time for driving.

Also, you must plan for cancelled Ryanair flights etc etc.
Oh, also, roadworks. If you are driving the length of two countries you are likely to be stopped in roadworks for a while in places.

FrCrilly

3ps wrote: »

I'm sorry I can't really follow that information

Appreciated. I'll simplify.

I'll arrive at LeHavre on 26 Jul 09 at approx 16.45. Cost of crossing €221 (LD Lines, Rosslare to LeHavre route)

I'll pick up my family/group at, say, Girona Airport, North Spain, who will land on 27 July at 18.10 (Ryanair Fares from Dublin €43)

I'll have 16 days of touring between Girona (North Spain) and Malaga (Southern Spain)

I will fly home with my family/group from Malaga Airport on 12 Aug at 17.10. (Ryanair fare to Dublin is €48). At Malaga my partner will fly in (on same day at 23.50 at airfare €46) and take over the motorhome (accompanied by his family/group)

My partner will have 14 days of touring between Malaga and, again say, Girona.

My partner will drop his family/group at Girona Airport on 26 Aug for a 21.50 flight (Fare to Dublin €38).

My partner will drive from Girona to meet the ferry at LeHarve (to Rosslare) on 28 Aug at 23.59. Cost of crossing €112 (LD Lines, LeHavre to Rosslare).

Me and my partner don't necessarily have to start and finish the holiday at Girona. We could also use Carcassonne, Reus and Madrid which like Girona, happen to have cheap fares (IMO) to and from Dublin at this time. (All prices and times are in entry 17).

I am not trying to get from LeHavre to Malaga in 2 days. I'm trying to get from LeHavre to Northern Spain ASAP so I can chill out and tour from Northern Spain to Southern Spain over an approx 2 week period.

Hope this clears things up a bit. Any questions on the info, let me know.

FrCrilly

3ps wrote: »

Also, by my calculations you will spend €500 on diesel just on the drive up and down.

Thanks for that. How exactly did you calculate it? (Cost per km 13c).

3ps

I just have worked out based on my own calculations, what mpg my van can get and then work out kms per gallon then kms per litre and then kms per cost per litre and then price per km!

it was a rough calculation but here it is again (approx)

van averages 23 miles per gallon
= 23 miles per 4.54 litres
= 37kms per 4.5 litres
= 1km per .1216 litres
= 1km per .1216 * (price per litre in country)
= 1km per .1216* (1.4?? in France??)
= 1km = €0.17c
2000km = €340

Oh well it works out cheaper than 500! I must update my spreadsheet!
Unless diesel in France is > 1.40

FrCrilly

3ps wrote: »

van averages 23 miles per gallon
= 23 miles per 4.54 litres
= 37kms per 4.5 litres
= 1km per .1216 litres
= 1km per .1216 * (price per litre in country)
= 1km per .1216* (1.4?? in France??)
= 1km = €0.17c
2000km = €340

Thanks for that.

With €340 diesel costs, I calculate that in my example in entry 21, I and a family/group of 4 people could tour Spain for 16 days at a transport only cost of €918.50. My partner’s 14 day tour (with 4 people) would have a transport only cost of €888.50.

Further costs left to be added include additional diesel for zig-zagging off course, French tolls, campsite parking costs and I’m sure other expenses I haven’t thought of.