Mini Budget effecting child benefit!!!?

Baby75

I was just wondering,

What will you do if the government decides in its mini budget that it will reduce or take away child benefit, or the early childcare supplement!!

I hope they don't but have a feeling they will do, I'M wondering why they are taking from our children,

do we let them or would you stand up and fight for them!!

I know for me I really need the money DH out of work and with bills and food etc to be paid I really need mine to buy the kids clothes etc so Ill be fighting for mine.

what Say you !!!

Nevyn

Do you have anything to back this up or is it just wild speculation and rumour ?

jaffa20

Baby75 wrote: »

what Say you !!!

I say "affecting"

bobbbb

There have been strong indications that all of the child payments will be hit in a big way. Have a look on askaboutmoney.com

Baby75

I guess I should have said a gut feeling of my own, we shall see if im right soon enough. you never know !

Baby75

jaffa20 wrote: »

I say "affecting"

What

Baby75

bobbbb wrote: »

There have been strong indications that all of the child payments will be hit in a big way. Have a look on askaboutmoney.com

Thank you

but what would you do!

Nevyn

Strong indications from whom ?
Can you link to any statements or comments from anyone in government ?

Baby75

Thaedydal wrote: »

Strong indications from whom ?
Can you link to any statements or comments from anyone in government ?

Why do you ask, do you not think they might go down that road.

Nevyn

I have not seen anything to suggest other then this thread.
If this is purely speculative then I will consider moving it to the economics or politics forums.

bobbbb

Thaedydal wrote: »

Strong indications from whom ?
Can you link to any statements or comments from anyone in government ?

Read the papers. They've been full of statements from people in government the past week or so.

bobbbb

Baby75 wrote: »

Thank you

but what would you do!

There is nothing you can do really. Just take it. The government have given up listening to the people.

Nevyn

bobbbb wrote: »

Read the papers. They've been full of statements from people in government the past week or so.

This is the second time I have asked for links on this, the burden of providing
them is on those who started the thread.

Dfens

bobbbb wrote: »

Read the papers. They've been full of statements from people in government the past week or so.

Indo Link

MrsA

What I will do is take it on the chin and do what I can to survive on what we have.

I would prefer to suffer a little now than to let the country go bankrupt.

Where do people think the money can come from? We are broke!!

M

Sleipnir

Thaedydal wrote: »

This is the second time I have asked for links on this, the burden of providing
them is on those who started the thread.

Can we not speculate on rumour regarding the economy or budget anymore? I didn't realise we needed documentary evidence before we could comment on what's rumoured to happen in near future.

OP did not state that she has seen a document that says the government are definately going to do something with regards to child benefit. She is merely speculating on the rumours which we have all heard (well, I have heard this before anyway, on boards.ie as it happens)

"What will you do if the government decides.."

I hope they don't but have a feeling they will do

Can OP back up her "hope" and "a feeling"?


Back on topic....
I for one think they will do something, probably take away the early childcare supplement. It was nice to have but is certainly something that I would only expect in good times, not bad. Hey ho, that's the way it goes.

Baby75

MrsA wrote: »

What I will do is take it on the chin and do what I can to survive on what we have.

I would prefer to suffer a little now than to let the country go bankrupt.

Where do people think the money can come from? We are broke!!

M

I don't agree, I don't see the government taking more pay cuts. http://www.kerryman.ie/breaking-news/national-news/politics/26-tds-to-get-3000-pay-hike-in-coming-months-1670482.html

Ive worked and paid taxes so has my husband, now because of the the big R my husband is out of work and with out our children's benefit we would be lost. so would many of my friends.

Ive just had a baby so I'm out of work but sure I don't have a job to go back to any way. so we still have bills to Pay 4 little mouths to feed and we have to keep a roof over our head.

there has to be other ways of getting the country through this than taking from elderly,education,disabled, children.


were is our spirit gone that we just shrug our shoulders and do nothing!!

Nevyn

Dfens wrote: »

Indo Link

Thank you

Child benefit faces cut in €5bn crisis Budget
Record dole levels pile pressure on finances

By Fionnan Sheahan, Aideen Sheehan and John Walshe

Thursday March 05 2009

CUTS to child benefit and other social welfare payments are on the cards, as the Government attempts to bridge a €5bn hole in the public finances.

The record numbers now signing on the dole have heaped even further pressure on public spending and will add an extra €1bn to social welfare payments. Government sources last night confirmed universal payments, such as child benefit, would be in the firing line ahead of next month's mini-budget.

The early childhood supplement, paid to cover childcare costs, has already been reduced twice and is expected to be cut even further.

These payments are under pressure because they are not regarded as the primary source of income for families.

While the carer's allowance is a means-tested payment to people caring for an incapacitated person, the respite care grant is not means-tested, so it is expected to be brought in line with similar payments.

"With a budget the size of social welfare, you can't ignore it. It hasn't been done up until now, but you have to take a genuine look. The gap is too big to bridge and social welfare is €20bn and growing," a government source told the Irish Independent.

The Cabinet is less inclined to target payments such as old age pensions, unemployment allowance, widow's benefit or carer's allowance.

However, given the extent of the gap, these may enter the equation over the next month. Social welfare increases will be frozen this year and next year. Mr Lenihan last night left the door open for cuts after he pointed out that basic social welfare payments went up this year.

"We provided for generous increases this year -- well above the cost of living. Cost of living is now decreasing in Ireland, that's the position, and is set to decrease in the months ahead, but clearly that's something we can take account of. But we have not made any consideration. There are no proposals in relation to social welfare," he said.

Just a €1 reduction in these basic social welfare rates would bring in €60m.

The taxing of child benefit is being ruled out, as the number of unmarried mothers makes it difficult to assess the income in a household.

Instead, the monthly payments of €166 for the first two children, and €203 for each additional child, are set to be slashed.

"If measures have to be introduced quickly, then a straightforward reduction is the way to do it," a source said.

AS for why I requested a substantive scorce it is best to do so rather then
letting a thread spin off into rumor and panic.

Baby75

Sleipnir wrote: »

Can we not speculate on rumour regarding the economy or budget anymore? I didn't realise we needed documentary evidence before we could comment on what's rumoured to happen in near future.

OP did not state that she has seen a document that says the government are

definately

going to do something with regards to child benefit. She is merely speculating on the rumours which we have all heard (well, I have heard this before anyway, on boards.ie as it happens)




Can OP back up her "hope" and "a feeling"?


Back on topic....
I for one think they will do something, probably take away the early childcare supplement. It was nice to have but is certainly something that I would only expect in good times, not bad. Hey ho, that's the way it goes.

I can indeed, Yes it was just a what if question...
I'm new to the boards and hadn't realized I had to back up every thing with a link to something:) sorry about that.

But have to agree with you if we lose the early childcare supplement then so be it, its just the child benefit I'm worried about.

Baby75

Thaedydal wrote: »

Thank you



AS for why I requested a substantive scorce it is best to do so rather then
letting a thread spin off into rumor and panic.

I can understand that

bobbbb

Thaedydal wrote: »

This is the second time I have asked for links on this, the burden of providing
them is on those who started the thread.

There is a massive laziness factor here.

Let me teach you to fish.

Goto http://news.google.ie

Then type "ireland budget child benefit cuts"

All the links you want and now people can do it themselves, whenever they want. Who would have thought you could do that. :cool:

Nevyn

Dear bobbbb

Please don't try and teach me to suck eggs and let all try and be civil as per the rules
in the charter. I didn't go looking for a link as I wanted someone else to do so not out of
laziness but imparitality. If you have an issue with the moderation of this forum or any
of the mods please feel free to start a thread in the helpdesk forum.

love and kisses
Thaedydal

bobbbb

Thaedydal wrote: »

Dear bobbbb

Please don't try and teach me to suck eggs and let all try and be civil as per the rules
in the charter. I didn't go looking for a link as I wanted someone else to do so not out of
laziness but imparitality. If you have an issue with the moderation of this forum or any
of the mods please feel free to start a thread in the helpdesk forum.

love and kisses
Thaedydal

I am being completely civil here.
It wasnt impartiality on your part at all. You know what it was. Please dont try and kid us.
We all know you're a mod. You dont have to go flexing your mod muscles just to let us know.

You could easily have told people where to look up links for themselves.

Now, Not only yourself, but others can now easily use google news too.

Now it is within peoples own power to go and look up the news, quickly and easily and they dont have to only take one sided news stories that may be linked either.

Iago

Baby75 wrote: »

Ive just had a baby so I'm out of work but sure I don't have a job to go back to any way. so we still have bills to Pay 4 little mouths to feed and we have to keep a roof over our head.

rant
At any point did you factor in the expense of having four children before you had them? Or did you just decide you wanted four children without any consideration for how you would feed, clothe and generally look after them for the bones of 20 years?

I'm sorry for singling you out, because it's not about you personally, but I just don't understand how so many people have children/mortgages/bank loans etc without having plans for absorbing the financial cost of same.

I mean we have public servants stating that "if they take that €30 a week then I can't afford my mortgage" that's bad financial planning on their part, what were they thinking of getting a mortgage that big in the first place?

Next we'll have parents up and down the country stating that because they get €5-€10 a week less from child benefit that their kids will be like beggars on the street. It defies logic really.

/rant

as for what I'll do, nothing at all. This, much like the pension levy, is only the start folks. It's going to get a whole lot worse for all of us before it starts to get better. There is nobody getting out of this without being hit, and the sooner everybody wakes up to that reality the sooner we can look for solutions rather than crying over split milk.

professore

Iago wrote: »

rant
At any point did you factor in the expense of having four children before you had them? Or did you just decide you wanted four children without any consideration for how you would feed, clothe and generally look after them for the bones of 20 years?

I'm sorry for singling you out, because it's not about you personally, but I just don't understand how so many people have children/mortgages/bank loans etc without having plans for absorbing the financial cost of same.

I mean we have public servants stating that "if they take that €30 a week then I can't afford my mortgage" that's bad financial planning on their part, what were they thinking of getting a mortgage that big in the first place?

Next we'll have parents up and down the country stating that because they get €5-€10 a week less from child benefit that their kids will be like beggars on the street. It defies logic really.

/rant

as for what I'll do, nothing at all. This, much like the pension levy, is only the start folks. It's going to get a whole lot worse for all of us before it starts to get better. There is nobody getting out of this without being hit, and the sooner everybody wakes up to that reality the sooner we can look for solutions rather than crying over split milk.

Having children is not just a cold financial decision. You can't possibly do it on that basis as if you did no-one but the super rich would have kids.

Lots of people made stupid financial decisions in the last few years, including so called experts. So I would get down off my high horse if I were you. Have you complete financial security for the rest of your life ?

Iago

professore wrote: »

Having children is not just a cold financial decision. You can't possibly do it on that basis as if you did no-one but the super rich would have kids.

Lots of people made stupid financial decisions in the last few years, including so called experts. So I would get down off my high horse if I were you. Have you complete financial security for the rest of your life ?

of course it's not but it should always be a consideration. I'm not on a high horse at all to be honest, although I can see how the post could be construed that way. I just find it bizarre that a lot of people seem to be so badly affected by such small changes.

I know that's not the case for the op as her partner has also lost his job which would put undue pressure on anyone.

but for anyone who fnds that losing such a small amount every week (i.e. €10 off child benefit or €20-€50 off salary) puts you on the breadline then there's something wrong with how you've planned out your life. (although to be fair that has nothing to do with parenting and everything to do with economics, so probably more suitable there)

loyatemu

most commentators in the papers seem to think that bringing CB into the tax net is likely at some stage. However making changes to the tax system halfway through a tax year is tricky so this may not happen until next year.

The early childcare supplement on the other hand has been cut back twice already and will almost certainly be hit again. It was only introduced as a stroke to avoid having to do anything useful about the childcare issue in the first place. I don't know if it'll be abolished but I'd be very surprised if it isn't significantly reduced.

Ultimately though, only the 2 Brians really know whats coming.

Baby75

Iago wrote: »

rant
At any point did you factor in the expense of having four children before you had them? Or did you just decide you wanted four children without any consideration for how you would feed, clothe and generally look after them for the bones of 20 years?:mad: if every one thought well I better save up x amount of money just in case there is a recession or I lose my job!!! then no one who have kids!!! that's not how life works.

I'm sorry for singling you out, because it's not about you personally, but I just don't understand how so many people have children/mortgages/bank loans etc without having plans for absorbing the financial cost of same.Then why did you, you don't know me or how I live my life.

I mean we have public servants stating that "if they take that €30 a week then I can't afford my mortgage" that's bad financial planning on their part, what were they thinking of getting a mortgage that big in the first place?

Next we'll have parents up and down the country stating that because they get €5-€10 a week less from child benefit that their kids will be like beggars on the street. It defies logic really.:mad:

/rant

as for what I'll do, nothing at all. This, much like the pension levy, is only the start folks. It's going to get a whole lot worse for all of us before it starts to get better. There is nobody getting out of this without being hit, and the sooner everybody wakes up to that reality the sooner we can look for solutions rather than crying over split milk.

:mad:

i'M not even going to bother I don't need to answer to you, do you have children [at all actually don't bother answering you said your piece now. please don't comment on any thing I say again thank you.

Iago

well you posted a question on a bulletin board, did you only want people who agreed with you to respond?

I disagree with your premise that life doesn't work by thinking about how you will afford x,y or z if the worst happens, and I don't need to know you to make a point about people in general not being better prepared for when bad things happen. You've decided to react emotionally to a logical discussion, I'm sorry for that but it doesn't change any of the points I made. Again I emphasise it's not about you in particular, it's a comment in general that just happens to be in a thread you started.

I'm not going to go out of my way to antagonise you, but neither am I going to avoid posting in threads because you say so. If you don't want people to comment on what you have to say, then don't post it on a bulletin board.

Baby75

Iago wrote: »

of course it's not but it should always be a consideration. I'm not on a high horse at all to be honest, although I can see how the post could be construed that way. I just find it bizarre that a lot of people seem to be so badly affected by such small changes.

I know that's not the case for the op as her partner has also lost his job which would put undue pressure on anyone.

but for anyone who fnds that losing such a small amount every week (i.e. €10 off child benefit or €20-€50 off salary) puts you on the breadline then there's something wrong with how you've planned out your life. (although to be fair that has nothing to do with parenting and everything to do with economics, so probably more suitable there)

I'm not saying losing a small amount of €10 or €20-€50 will put us on the bread line so to speak. I can live with that, I was thinking if they took the whole lot back or half of it.

I don't think any one minds putting the head down arse up and charging through the hard times a head, but when you see the link I posted earlier if you looked TD's to get a pay rise in the coming months!!!! every one I mean every one should help get Ireland get back on her feet. not just the middle men.

I hope your always as comfortable to be able to not let any of this factor in your life. (there I am now, jumping to conclusions)

Nevyn

Iago I suggest you read the charter for this forum.

Parents are entitled to come here and rant and post emotively.
This is is not the economics or the politics forum.

The facts are that many people have faced wage cuts or loosing their jobs
and the child benefit helps them make ends meet esp as the cost of living
has been rocketing over the last few years that no one could planed for.

Baby75

Iago wrote: »

well you posted a question on a bulletin board, did you only want people who agreed with you to respond?

I disagree with your premise that life doesn't work by thinking about how you will afford x,y or z if the worst happens, and I don't need to know you to make a point about people in general not being better prepared for when bad things happen. You've decided to react emotionally to a logical discussion, I'm sorry for that but it doesn't change any of the points I made. Again I emphasise it's not about you in particular, it's a comment in general that just happens to be in a thread you started.

I'm not going to go out of my way to antagonise you, but neither am I going to avoid posting in threads because you say so. If you don't want people to comment on what you have to say, then don't post it on a bulletin board.

post away in any thread I post in Ive no problem there at all:), I dont mind any one disagreeing with me at all. you did a little more than that though.
dont assume you know what way I live my life
Im not getting in to a disagreement with you either so we will agree to disagree and move on.

Baby75

Thaedydal wrote: »

Iago I suggest you read the charter for this forum.

Parents are entitled to come here and rant and post emotively.
This is is not the economics or the politics forum.

The facts are that many people have faced wage cuts or loosing their jobs
and the child benefit helps them make ends meet esp as the cost of living
has been rocketing over the last few years that no one could planed for.

Thank you

di11on

No harm in the Early Child Care Supplement and/or Children's Allowance being means tested so the super rich don't qualify while those who really need it, still get it. I suppose where you draw the line is the issue. But I do think it's a bit silly that everyone gets it regardless of need.

bobbbb

di11on wrote: »

No harm in the Early Child Care Supplement and/or Children's Allowance being means tested so the super rich don't qualify while those who really need it, still get it. I suppose where you draw the line is the issue. But I do think it's a bit silly that everyone gets it regardless of need.

IMO nobody should get childrens allowance or early child support. Why should they get it?

Having kids is part of life and is entirely down to each couple to decide if they want kids or not. They should not be attacked because they have decided to have kids, but just because theyhave them shouldnt mean they get to sponge in their kids names either.

Baby75

bobbbb wrote: »

IMO nobody should get childrens allowance or early child support. Why should they get it? (what do you mean:))

Having kids is part of life and is entirely down to each couple to decide if they want kids or not. They should not be attacked because they have decided to have kids, but just because theyhave them shouldnt mean they get to sponge in their kids names either.

I had my childern because I wanted them as did my husband ,not for any other reason.:)

Ludo

bobbbb wrote: »

IMO nobody should get childrens allowance or early child support. Why should they get it?

Having kids is part of life and is entirely down to each couple to decide if they want kids or not. They should not be attacked because they have decided to have kids, but just because theyhave them shouldnt mean they get to sponge in their kids names either.

I assume the state should contribute nothing towards education either then. Full fee paying education for everyone. If you can't afford it, tough. I assume your parents paid for your education so as not to drain the state coffers and you will also if you have a child.

When this thread started, I was wondering who would be the first to come out with the statements you did. Someone always does.

Nevyn

It is in the states intrest for people to have children.
We do not have tax breaks for having children like in other countries but we do have
a small payment to help families so that their children grow up to be tax payers.

bobbbb

Ludo wrote: »

I assume the state should contribute nothing towards education either then. Full fee paying education for everyone. If you can't afford it, tough. I assume your parents paid for your education so as not to drain the state coffers and you will also if you have a child.

When this thread started, I was wondering who would be the first to come out with the statements you did. Someone always does.

I have 1 daughter and another on the way. We chose to have them and bring them up in Ireland and are very willing to pay for their education and not sponge off the state. If the state needed us to give it up, we would gladly do it.

Education should remain free to those who cant afford it.
ie. it should be means tested. If you are working you pay your own way. Tax breaks for those earning enough to provide for their children already are a waste of tax payers money. Simple as that.

Do you think that just because you have a child, you should get money for free?

Please dont tell me that anyone here thinks people only have children for the childrens allowance. If there was no childrens allowance, people would still be having children.

Ludo

Ya know...I actually agree with your main points. I guess it is your use of the word sponging that I object to. If you considering taking childrens allowance sponging then why do you do it.

bobbbb

Ludo wrote: »

Ya know...I actually agree with your main points. I guess it is your use of the word sponging that I object to. If you considering taking childrens allowance sponging then why do you do it.

It is sponging if its money you could do without. And if you can afford the internet and holidays and so on, you can do without it. Its those people who have no disposable income at all who this money should be given too - more of it even.

Yes, i take it now. At the moment its all going into an account for the kids. I dont touch it. I wouldnt miss it if it went and i wouldnt feel like i was owed it either. But as Enda Kenny says. I'll give it up when we all do - and we should.

Ludo

bobbbb wrote: »

It is sponging if its money you could do without. And if you can afford the internet and holidays and so on, you can do without it. Its those people who have no disposable income at all who this money should be given too - more of it even. Yes, i take it now. At the moment its all going into an account for the kids. I dont touch it. I wouldnt miss it if it went and i wouldnt feel like i wa owed it either. But as Enda Kenny says. I'll give it up when we all do - and we should.

So give it to Bernardos or someone if you don't want it and object to it so strongly.

bobbbb

Ludo wrote: »

So give it to Bernardos or someone if you don't want it and object to it so strongly.

Tell you what. If the government cut child benefits then i'll give that much out of it (its everything we received for the last 4 years) to Bernardos, if you join me and donate half of what i donate. Then everyone wins. Especially Bernardos. We can get boards to set up a fund for this and between us we should have well over €10k in it. Perhaps others here could donate too. If you agree, we can get cracking on this now even, but only if you're wiling to do it with me. Lets put our money where our mouths are and do some good. Deal?

Ludo

bobbbb wrote: »

Lets put our money where our mouths are and do some good. Deal?

Well you are the one who needs to put your money where your mouth is not me. You came onto this thread calling everyone who gets childrens allowance spongers...yet you get it and accept it yourself...there is a word for that kind of behaviour...

bobbbb

Ludo wrote: »

Well you are the one who needs to put your money where your mouth is not me. You came onto this thread calling everyone who gets childrens allowance spongers...yet you get it and accept it yourself...there is a word for that kind of behaviour...

Come on, Dont avoid the subject. You and i together have a chance to make what we got from childrens allowance, go to a good cause. If you're in, then im in. We'll do it together and hopefully get others to donate too. I'll keep none of mine and you can keep half of yours.

Nevyn

Not every one wants to do that or are in position to be able to afford to that.
You can't not expect people to divulge thier circumstances just because you have.

luckat

Thread's been dragged off topic, as often happens.

My own take: the rumours about people pretending to live in Ireland so they could claim child benefit for children in less wealthy countries have probably sparked this plan.

Whether this happens to any great extent - who knows? I doubt it.

The solution (I think) is for all countries to get together to try to level out wealth so it's not to anyone's advantage to take work from one country to another. Will this happen?

(checks under floor for signs of Hell freezing over)

Doubt it.

Ludo

bobbbb wrote: »

Come on, Dont avoid the subject. You and i together have a chance to make what we got from childrens allowance, go to a good cause. If you're in, then im in. We'll do it together and hopefully get others to donate too. I'll keep none of mine and you can keep half of yours.

You just don't see your own hypocrisy do you...ah well. Carry on insulting everyone else who does exactly what you do. I have had my say with you and won't be feeding you anymore.

luckat wrote: »

Thread's been dragged off topic, as often happens.

Ah not really...it's a conversation...they sometimes veer off slightly which is life...we are still talking about childrens allowance stuff.

I can fully understand the OPs opinion. I don't necessarily agree with it though as I think everyone is going to have to take a hit in the coming budget and rightfully so. I think childrens allowance will be hit as will everything else as it HAS to be.
Lots of people are going to be annoyed when they themselves are hit in the pocket (just look at the public service workers) but they are just going to have to get over it and do their best to make ends meet somehow.
The only thing that would make me take "action" is if the budget it totally unfair and takes only from certain sections of society and not everyone or if they bring in some absolutely stupid new tax like a primary residential property tax....**** that...I'll be right there with the OP burning down the dail if they do that.

Baby75

Ludo wrote: »

You just don't see your own hypocrisy do you...ah well. Carry on insulting everyone else who does exactly what you do. I have had my say with you and won't be feeding you anymore.


Ah not really...it's a conversation...they sometimes veer off slightly which is life...we are still talking about childrens allowance stuff.

I can fully understand the OPs opinion. I don't necessarily agree with it though as I think everyone is going to have to take a hit in the coming budget and rightfully so. I think childrens allowance will be hit as will everything else as it HAS to be.
Lots of people are going to be annoyed when they themselves are hit in the pocket (just look at the public service workers) but they are just going to have to get over it and do their best to make ends meet somehow.
The only thing that would make me take "action" is if the budget it totally unfair and takes only from certain sections of society and not everyone or if they bring in some absolutely stupid new tax like a primary residential property tax....**** that...I'll be right there with the OP burning down the dail if they do that.

Now were talking LOL

paul_white

I think the goverment messed up with this whole "early childcare supplement" its really annoying and i think they should scrap it and start again because the whole purpose of it was to help families towards childcare costs while they were out at work but yet they give it to families who are unemployed who clearly would not (or definatley should not) be availing of the use of childcare facilities while they sit at home even if they are looking for a job I thin it should only be granted to people who are in full time employment and maybe give half rate to people on part time. Thats my opinion

manafana

thats news to me makes no sense to give it to people who arnt in work?