A few questions about confession.

Overblood

Bless me father for I have sinned, it has been like 11 years since my last confession....

Why is there a need for confession? Where did confession originate? Did Jesus listen to peoples confessions?

Why does a priest have to listen to confession? Why can't you confess in prayer? Or confess to some magic wall or something?

Would you feel uncomfortable confessing to a priest?

Do you go to hell if you don't confess?

How long has it been since your last confession?

Soul Winner

Overblood wrote: »

Why is there a need for confession?

Confession is good for the soul.

"He who conceals his sins does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy." Proverbs 28:13

Overblood wrote: »

Where did confession originate?

Unless I'm mistaken confessing sins originated in Leviticus:

"And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness" Leviticus 16:21

Overblood wrote: »

Did Jesus listen to peoples confessions?

Yes.

Overblood wrote: »

Why does a priest have to listen to confession?

He doesn't have to.

Overblood wrote: »

Why can't you confess in prayer? Or confess to some magic wall or something?

You can.

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

Overblood wrote: »

Would you feel uncomfortable confessing to a priest?

Yes, none of his business. But I have no gripe with anyone who wants to confess their sins to God via priest. Just don't tell me that in order for my sins to be forgiven that I have to. I don't.

Overblood wrote: »

Do you go to hell if you don't confess?

You don't go to hell because you don't confess your sins but confessing your sins will reverse the hell bound direction you are already going in.

Overblood wrote: »

How long has it been since your last confession?

Not sure, don't sin that much Oooops just did, that was a lie :eek:

It's very important to remember that: "We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners" Witness Lee

Baird

Soul Winner wrote: »

You don't go to hell because you don't confess your sins but confessing your sins will reverse the hell bound direction you are already going in.

Very very well put.

prinz

Overblood wrote: »

Bless me father for I have sinned, it has been like 11 years since my last confession....

11 years, you're doing pretty well...

Overblood wrote: »

Why is there a need for confession? Where did confession originate? Did Jesus listen to peoples confessions?

The same reason there is a need for counsellors and psychologists - it's good and healthy to talk and unburden yourself some time. AFAIK Jesus often asked people to acknowledge their sins, ask for forgiveness and repent - basically confession of a sort.

Overblood wrote: »

Why does a priest have to listen to confession? Why can't you confess in prayer? Or confess to some magic wall or something?

i dont see why you couldn't do any of those things. However only a priest can absolve you of said confessed sins in the name of the God he serves - a wall can't

Overblood wrote: »

Would you feel uncomfortable confessing to a priest?

No more or less comfortable than discussing my life with a counsellor, people dont have a problem with that.

Overblood wrote: »

Do you go to hell if you don't confess?

Again AFAIK there was/is no obligation to do so, once you have truly repented for your sins. Confessions is about unburdening yourself, and accepting the absolution from them through the grace of God

Overblood wrote: »

How long has it been since your last confession?

A long long time.


*tems and conditions apply.dont blame me im not a theologian

postcynical

Overblood wrote: »

Bless me father for I have sinned, it has been like 11 years since my last confession....

Why is there a need for confession? Where did confession originate? Did Jesus listen to peoples confessions?

Why does a priest have to listen to confession? Why can't you confess in prayer? Or confess to some magic wall or something?

In the Catholic Church (of Rome), a priest has authority to forgive sins in the name of the whole church. Of course it is taught that it is God who forgives the sins through Christ and through the Church. There is also the notion of a perfect act of contrition which is a prayer of confession to God (who may or may not take the form of a magic wall....) I understand that other Christians who are not in communion with Rome believe that confession is between the penitent and God with intermediaries unnecessary, and ordained intermediaries even less necessary.

I see it a bit like prayer. Very holy people can pray without words. Their gestures, actions, even their very breath is a constant prayer to Christ. As a beginner though, I benefit from the discipline of semi-structured prayer and guidance reading the scriptures. Again, I benefit from the Church's structured sacrament of reconciliation. I'm sure others can bypass it. But by whatever means, all confessions must be to God and it is always a prayer.

Would you feel uncomfortable confessing to a priest?

No, I trust priests by default. Luckily I didn't when I was younger:mad: Back away from the dark side, priests are usually well trained and have heard many sins before. They can often offer words of comfort or actions that might help me avoid sin, from their experience.

I would confess my faults to another person, but my sins are instances where I offend God. And that stays between me and God, via the priest.

Do you go to hell if you don't confess?

Yes.

How long has it been since your last confession?

I'm due one now this evening:) Thanks for the prompt.

Mickeroo

Is confession not a bit of a get out of jail free card in some ways? If someone lead a really crappy life do you think they should still get into heaven if they go to confessions before they die?

Also, is the last rites a confession of sorts? It's to cleanse the soul before they pass on?

postcynical

Mickeroo wrote: »

Is confession not a bit of a get out of jail free card in some ways? If someone lead a really crappy life do you think they should still get into heaven if they go to confessions before they die?

It's great! Maybe this passage will help; this is how I understand it anyway. If I turn to God I will get the same reward as those who were always faithful to Him. It's another aspect of His great justice. Likewise, other sinners are free to join up and avail of this great offer. The only catch is you never know when your number's up!

Matthew 20:1-15 wrote:

1As Jesus was telling what the kingdom of heaven would be like, he said: Early one morning a man went out to hire some workers for his vineyard. 2After he had agreed to pay them the usual amount for a day's work, he sent them off to his vineyard.
3About nine that morning, the man saw some other people standing in the market with nothing to do. 4He said he would pay them what was fair, if they would work in his vineyard. 5So they went.
At noon and again about three in the afternoon he returned to the market. And each time he made the same agreement with others who were loafing around with nothing to do.
6Finally, about five in the afternoon the man went back and found some others standing there. He asked them, "Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?"
7"Because no one has hired us," they answered. Then he told them to go work in his vineyard.
8That evening the owner of the vineyard told the man in charge of the workers to call them in and give them their money. He also told the man to begin with the ones who were hired last. 9When the workers arrived, the ones who had been hired at five in the afternoon were given a full day's pay.
10The workers who had been hired first thought they would be given more than the others. But when they were given the same, 11they began complaining to the owner of the vineyard. 12They said, "The ones who were hired last worked for only one hour. But you paid them the same that you did us. And we worked in the hot sun all day long!"
13The owner answered one of them, "Friend, I didn't cheat you. I paid you exactly what we agreed on. 14Take your money now and go! What business is it of yours if I want to pay them the same that I paid you? 15Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Why should you be jealous, if I want to be generous?"

Slav

postcynical wrote: »

I understand that other Christians who are not in communion with Rome believe that confession is between the penitent and God with intermediaries unnecessary, and ordained intermediaries even less necessary.

No, RCC is just one among many other churches that practice confessions to pastors or ordained priests/bishops.

Do you go to hell if you don't confess?

Yes.

That probably needs clarification to avoid possible misunderstandings. What is meant by "don't confess" then? Is it specifically avoiding the Sacrament of Penance or it should be understood in a broader sense?

Slav

Mickeroo wrote: »

Is confession not a bit of a get out of jail free card in some ways?

No, it's not. Think of Church as a hospital, not a court.

If someone lead a really crappy life do you think they should still get into heaven if they go to confessions before they die?

Church does not send anyone to Heaven. It has got the remedy that heals human souls and it only gives it away. The rest is up to God.

Soul Winner

Overblood wrote:

Do you go to hell if you don't confess?

Response:

postcynical wrote: »

Yes.

To say yes to this question suggests that not confessing one's sins is the reason why one is going to hell. If not confessing one's sins is the reason why one is going to hell then the sinful condition that one would be confessing to in the first place is not the reason why one is going to hell. And if the sinful condition that one would be confessing to in the first place is not the reason why one is going to hell then why the need to confess it?

Confession with the mouth to God about one's sinful condition is basically saying that you agree with God on what He already knows about you. A laying down of your arms if you like and surrendering to God. You are simply recognizing your sinful condition and that you are in need of His grace and forgiveness. Only from that point can you start walking with God aright.

The promise in scripture is that 'if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins'. When you act on that promise you are acting in faith on God's Word. That is what saving faith is, acting on the promises of God. That kind of faith is what connects you to God, and by connecting to God in this way you are literally plugging into God (who is the source of life) from Whom you now draw all your strength and life. And also in that moment are you viewed judicially as being blameless just like Christ and are seated in heavenly places with Him as God sees things.

We are already going to hell, everyone is, but the good news of the Gospel is that there is a way to escape it. That God Himself provided it in Christ. All we need to do is start walking in that direction, but that walk starts with the recognition of one's need of forgiveness and you can't have that until you actually recognize it, and you can't actually recognize it until your eyes are opened, and you can't have your eyes opened until God opens them with the light of His Word. That's why faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. It doesn't come from anywhere else, and without faith it is impossible to please God. So just see confession as act of faith that gets your foot in the door eternal and move onward and upward from there.

kelly1

Overblood wrote: »

Why is there a need for confession?

Confession and absolution is the normal/usual way that God has ordained for the forgiveness of sins. Having said that, if someone on the death-bed, had no access to confession and sincerely repented of their sins and asked for forgiveness I can't imagine God would turn His back on them. Confession like all sacraments has the advantage of conferring grace which helps the sinner to avoid sin.

Overblood wrote: »

Where did confession originate?

Jesus gave the apostles the authority to forgive sins as recorded in John 20:

21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

The Church still has this same authority to forgive sins in Jesus' name by virtue of apostolic succession.

Overblood wrote: »

Why does a priest have to listen to confession? Why can't you confess in prayer? Or confess to some magic wall or something?

Jesus instituted confession for a good reason. Jesus said that the Son of Man had the power to forgive sins i.e. He as a man had the authority given by the Father to forgive sins. He passed this authority on to the apostles. If that's the way God wants to forgive sins, I wouldn't question it. With confession and abolution you know you're forgiven, with prayer you can't be certain.

Overblood wrote: »

Would you feel uncomfortable confessing to a priest?

I do especially when I have to confess the same sins repeatedly. Confession is an act of humility.

Overblood wrote: »

Do you go to hell if you don't confess?

I don't know.

Overblood wrote: »

How long has it been since your last confession?

3 weeks, I'm overdue!

Húrin

Mickeroo wrote: »

Is confession not a bit of a get out of jail free card in some ways? If someone lead a really crappy life do you think they should still get into heaven if they go to confessions before they die?

Yes. This is one of the things that makes Christianity different from all the other religions: you can't get into heaven by being "good enough" but by accepting your sinfulness and acknowledging that only God can help you.

Doctrines which teach that salvation comes from being good enough are flawed IMO because whether we are "good people" or "bad people" (by what standard?) is more determined by birth and environment than by free choice.

Michael G

Overblood wrote: »

Why is there a need for confession? Where did confession originate? Did Jesus listen to peoples confessions? Why does a priest have to listen to confession? Why can't you confess in prayer?

John 20:23. In the same way as the priest acts in persona Christi when he offers the sacrifice of the Mass, it is Christ who hears and forgives sins in Confession.

homer911

I would say that confession is pointless without repentance, and my perception of Confession in the Catholic Church is that it is often seen as wiping the slate clean and leaving "room" to chalk up a few more sins until the next time - attitute and actions are often unchanged.

When this happens I dont know whether its a poor reflection on Catholic teaching or just the individual sinful nature, but by the Catholic Church placing so much emphasis on this as part of its ministry, its natural that it is also going to be judged on this (the action/attitude of its participants) by those outside the church

Protestant churches on the other hand would generally have a communal general confession, and encourage personal confession in prayer.

kelly1

homer911 wrote: »

I would say that confession is pointless without repentance, and my perception of Confession in the Catholic Church is that it is often seen as wiping the slate clean and leaving "room" to chalk up a few more sins until the next time - attitute and actions are often unchanged.

I would certainly agree that nobody should go to confession without sincere repentance. There must be a determination not commit the same sins in the future so as not to abuse God's mercy. As Jesus said "Your sins are forgiven you. Go and sin no more". The decision to repent sincerely or not is a personal matter. The Church never regards confession as a licence to sin. Priests have said things to me like "Go and sin no more" or "avoid sin like the plague" etc.

boringteetotal

Only God can forgive sin.
The only person we should be calling Father, is our Father in heaven.

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Matthew 23:9

kelly1

boringteetotal wrote: »

Only God can forgive sin.

Agreed. It is God who forgives sin in confession.

boringteetotal wrote: »

The only person we should be calling Father, is our Father in heaven.

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Matthew 23:9

Is it therefore a sin to call your human father, father?

Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and thy mother, which is the first commandment with a promise:

So it's good to honour your father as long as you don't mention the 'f' word?

What do you do when you want to introduce your fa**** to someone? This is my daddy? Is daddy also sinful or just the word fa****?

boringteetotal

That's straight from God.
It means not to call a man on earth father with a reverance allocated and atrributed to our ONE TRUE Father in heaven.

OBVIOUSLY we have earthly fathers but I think Catholic priests haven't read this verse, correct me if I am wrong.

There's no debating God's Word.

robindch

boringteetotal wrote: »

There's no debating God's Word.

Quick -- close down the forum!

kelly1

boringteetotal wrote: »

That's straight from God.
It means not to call a man on earth father with a reverance allocated and atrributed to our ONE TRUE Father in heaven.

That's OK then because people don't worship priests. See this:

1 Cor. 4:14–15 I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

See also http://www.catholic.com/library/Call_No_Man_Father.asp

End of discussion as far as I'm concerned.

boringteetotal

The verse you just quoted says you DO NOT have many fathers.
There is only one Father of all and that is God, and only Him should we call Father with reverance, respect and awe, not to a man in a black suit who believes in purgatory and prayers for the dead.

Can anyone else see the lies of Catholicism?

Jesus wants us to trust him and him ALONE for our salvation!

homer911

boringteetotal wrote: »

The verse you just quoted says you DO NOT have many fathers.
There is only one Father of all and that is God, and only Him should we call Father with reverance, respect and awe, not to a man in a black suit who believes in purgatory and prayers for the dead.

Can anyone else see the lies of Catholicism?

Jesus wants us to trust him and him ALONE for our salvation!

Boringteetotal - while I truely admire your faith and your biblical knowledge and your desire to share that and witness to others, may I suggest that you focus on encouraging and challenging others about what they believe, rather than criticising or judging. I know many committed, born-again Christians (i am one myself having trusted Jesus as my personal saviour at the age of 11 at a Christian camp) - some of them choose to worship in the RC tradition, although most under various protestant styles (including myself here). I dont criticise them for their choices.

You will catch more flies with honey than with salt! If we focus on the fundamentals of faith, the Holy Spirit will enlighten people to make their own decisions, both in terms of reaching a personal faith, and in terms of the more "trivial" elements of living that faith.

May I finish by saying I still enjoy your contributions..

boringteetotal

I apologise. I get so passionate. Jesus spoke out about religious hypocrisy and false teachers but I know I must be temperate also.

keano_afc

Its very easy to get passionate abut the gospel. I too have gone off the handle at some of the Catholic posters here and felt bad about it afterwards. I have tried to follow the same example here as I do with my unsaved family. Instead of showing frustration, I try and show love and understanding. It certainly has helped me.

philologos

I don't feel it necessary to confess sins to a pastor or a priest. In Acts ch 8, when Peter tells Simon Magus to confess his sins, he clearly tells him to pray to the Lord in private. Although I will say it is quite helpful to speak to other Christians you can trust in if you are having problems.

kelly1

Folks, if we can only receive forgiveness by confessing our sins to God directly, then why oh why did Jesus give His apostles the authority to forgive sins???

John 20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Would anyone here deny that Jesus granted this authority to His apostles? Let's keep our heads out of the sand please.

postcynical

Hi Kelly1, we probably hold similar views, but the scripture you've quoted does not exclude the possibility of having sins directly forgiven by God. How do you feel in the interim between being aware of committing a sin and finding a priest and the opportunity to avail of reconciliation?

My desire to convert and to avoid sinning again is as strong and as heartfelt now as it will be when I eventually find a priest. Repeating my prayer of repentance to God in the presence of a priest will (hopefully!) give me a new sense of mission and a feeling of being reborn, but I believe the act of forgiveness has occured already, when I realised my sin and repented (in private).

philologos

kelly1 wrote: »

Folks, if we can only receive forgiveness by confessing our sins to God directly, then why oh why did Jesus give His apostles the authority to forgive sins???

Would anyone here deny that Jesus granted this authority to His apostles? Let's keep our heads out of the sand please.

kelly1: Isn't there the possibility that Jesus gave the Apostles this power, and that God has the power to confess sins directly as well. There is absolutely no Biblical reason to accept that God does not have the power to confess sins directly. Take a read of Psalm 25 where King David repents of his sins. I never said that we only receive forgiveness through confessing to God directly, but then again I certainly wouldn't say that you can only receive confession through a priest.

postcynical

Overblood wrote: »

Do you go to hell if you don't confess?

I think soulwinner answered this very well in their first post.

soulwinner wrote:

You don't go to hell because you don't confess your sins but confessing your sins will reverse the hell bound direction you are already going in.

My view on this is that we are disposed to drifting from God's way, inclined toward sin, notwithstanding the very strong human urge to love and to do good for its own sake. Until I think more about it, my concept of hell is being without God. It is not something reserved for the afterlife. Confession (sacramental or prayerful) is humbly submitting myself to God's way, asking for the wisdom to know his way and the courage and fortitude to live this way of my own free will. Confession puts me back on track with God. I believe that He always forgives a sincere and humble penitent. With the necessary disposition, confession guarantees us a realignment with God's will. So confession delivers us from hell (or a hellbound direction as others here put it). In short, my answer to overblood's question is 'Yes'.

kelly1

postcynical wrote: »

Hi Kelly1, we probably hold similar views, but the scripture you've quoted does not exclude the possibility of having sins directly forgiven by God.

I'm not sure but I think it might depend of the gravity of the sin. Certainly venial sins can be forgiven without going to confession. But I for one wouldn't like to take the chance of confessing directly to God knowing that I had committed a mortal sin. Confession gives the assurance that any sin, no matter how grave, is forgiven.

postcynical wrote: »

How do you feel in the interim between being aware of committing a sin and finding a priest and the opportunity to avail of reconciliation?

That depends on the seriousness of the sin. As I believe in mortal sin as taught by the Catholic Church (1 Jn 5:16-17, Mt 6:12), I would feel quite uncomfortable knowing that I had evicted the Holy Spirit from my soul!

Jakkass wrote: »

kelly1: Isn't there the possibility that Jesus gave the Apostles this power, and that God has the power to confess sins directly as well. There is absolutely no Biblical reason to accept that God does not have the power to confess sins directly. Take a read of Psalm 25 where King David repents of his sins. I never said that we only receive forgiveness through confessing to God directly, but then again I certainly wouldn't say that you can only receive confession through a priest.

The way I look at it is that Jesus had purpose behind everything He did because He was on a mission from His Father. The fact that He breathed on the Apostles was significant because he thereby gave them the power to forgive sin. Why would Jesus have done this if confession to God directly was sufficent? Maybe all sins can be forgiven through direct confession, I don't know but what I do know is that all sacraments like Penance impart grace which gives us strength and the will to avoid sin.

postcynical

kelly1 wrote: »

That depends on the seriousness of the sin. As I believe in mortal sin as taught by the Catholic Church (1 Jn 5:16-17, Mt 6:12), I would feel quite uncomfortable knowing that I had evicted the Holy Spirit from my soul!

I meant mortal sin. Does the Spirit not sanctify any place it dwells, undermining the idea that it cannot reside in an unworthy temple? Is there not a dual aspect to Catholic confession; reconciliation with the Father and reconciliation with the Church? Do you believe that a Catholic, in a state of mortal sin, and in the absence of a priest, cannot host the Holy Spirit? I'm not challenging, I'm curious.

Slav

kelly1 wrote: »

postcynical wrote: »

Hi Kelly1, we probably hold similar views, but the scripture you've quoted does not exclude the possibility of having sins directly forgiven by God.

I'm not sure but I think it might depend of the gravity of the sin. Certainly venial sins can be forgiven without going to confession. But I for one wouldn't like to take the chance of confessing directly to God knowing that I had committed a mortal sin. Confession gives the assurance that any sin, no matter how grave, is forgiven.

This raises a question. If God gave His Church the authority to forgive sins then why He's only trusted to forgive venial sins directly and there is a need for a mediator for the mortal ones to be forgiven?

kelly1 wrote: »

postcynical wrote: »

How do you feel in the interim between being aware of committing a sin and finding a priest and the opportunity to avail of reconciliation?

That depends on the seriousness of the sin. As I believe in mortal sin as taught by the Catholic Church (1 Jn 5:16-17, Mt 6:12), I would feel quite uncomfortable knowing that I had evicted the Holy Spirit from my soul!

Eastern Churches have slightly different viewpoint on confession. The Church is seen as something that is above the time and therefore the Church gives an opportunity for everybody in their earthly life to experience and participate in past and future events. Same as the congregation enters that very room in Jerusalem around 30 AD for the Last Supper during the Holy Eucharist where Christ gives them His Body and Blood, the Sacrament of Confession brings penitent to the Last Judgement where Christ forgives their sins. That is the whole point of the sacrament. Also Orthodox tradition does not really divide sins to mortal and venial: all sins no matter how small are considered mortal and therefore there are no rules on what is mandatory and what is optional to confess: same as in the Last Judgement all sins will be uncovered.

Slav

postcynical wrote: »

Is there not a dual aspect to Catholic confession; reconciliation with the Father and reconciliation with the Church? Do you believe that a Catholic, in a state of mortal sin, and in the absence of a priest, cannot host the Holy Spirit? I'm not challenging, I'm curious.

If I'm not mistaken it was the Council of Trent that recognised that 'perfect contrition' reconciles men to God but the Sacrament of Penance still required at the first opportunity.

ontour

What I dont get is what are ya supposed to go in and actually say to the priest, fair enough if you have done somthing bad you need redemption from. But what if your just an average human being like myself am I ment to go in every two weeks and say bless me father for I have sinned I have been moody one or two days this week or I gave out to a younger sister. I don't think god is going to stop anyone at the gates to heaven for that or am I being naive.
I can't remember how to even say a confession the way it was thought in school anymore and I do in a way find this sad. I do however pray frequently enough as in twice or three times a month. I can't remember the last time I went to confessions and I'm 24.

kelly1

postcynical wrote: »

I meant mortal sin. Does the Spirit not sanctify any place it dwells, undermining the idea that it cannot reside in an unworthy temple?

John 14:23 Jesus answered, and said to him: If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and will make our abode with him.

I think the above passage shows that one must love God in order for the Holy Spirit to dwell within. Mortal sin by definition is a conscious rejection of God's will making love of God impossible.

postcynical wrote: »

Is there not a dual aspect to Catholic confession; reconciliation with the Father and reconciliation with the Church?

Yes I think there are aspects of both. Both though are according to God's will.

postcynical wrote: »

Do you believe that a Catholic, in a state of mortal sin, and in the absence of a priest, cannot host the Holy Spirit? I'm not challenging, I'm curious.

I don't know for sure but I would be of the opinion that an act of Perfect Contrition on one's death bed would be sufficent to save one's soul.

Slav wrote: »

This raises a question. If God gave His Church the authority to forgive sins then why He's only trusted to forgive venial sins directly and there is a need for a mediator for the mortal ones to be forgiven?

Technically speaking, venial sins don't kill divine life in the soul so we are still just before God although the relationship is damaged. The ship has sprung a few leaks but hasn't sunk so to speak. Stricly speaking, only mortal sins need to be confessed but it's good to confess venial sins in order to make spiritual progress. Venial sins can be forgiven afaik by asking God directly for forgiveness and I do know that venial sins are forgiven by attending Mass.

Slav wrote: »

Eastern Churches have slightly different viewpoint on confession. The Church is seen as something that is above the time and therefore the Church gives an opportunity for everybody in their earthly life to experience and participate in past and future events. Same as the congregation enters that very room in Jerusalem around 30 AD for the Last Supper during the Holy Eucharist where Christ gives them His Body and Blood, the Sacrament of Confession brings penitent to the Last Judgement where Christ forgives their sins. That is the whole point of the sacrament. Also Orthodox tradition does not really divide sins to mortal and venial: all sins no matter how small are considered mortal and therefore there are no rules on what is mandatory and what is optional to confess: same as in the Last Judgement all sins will be uncovered.

Interesting. I would disagree with all sins being mortal. I would basically make it virtually impossible to remain in a state of grace.

ontour wrote: »

What I dont get is what are ya supposed to go in and actually say to the priest, fair enough if you have done somthing bad you need redemption from. But what if your just an average human being like myself am I ment to go in every two weeks and say bless me father for I have sinned I have been moody one or two days this week or I gave out to a younger sister. I don't think god is going to stop anyone at the gates to heaven for that or am I being naive.

Nobody's going to be condemned to hell for being moody etc. It's mortal sins that kill our relationship with God by making our souls unfit for the presence of the Holy Spirit.

ontour wrote: »

I can't remember how to even say a confession the way it was thought in school anymore and I do in a way find this sad. I do however pray frequently enough as in twice or three times a month. I can't remember the last time I went to confessions and I'm 24.

I couldn't live without confession. It really helps me. If you're interested, the formula is:

You make the sign of the cross and say "Bless me father for I have sinned, it's been x weeks since my last confession...".

Then you tell him your sins and how often you committed them making sure to include and mortal sins you can remember. It's good also to include venials sins especially ones that you're prone to.

The you say something like "For these and all my sins, I am truly sorry".

The priest then gives absolution and you say an Act of Contrition such as:

O my God,
I am heartily sorry for
having offended Thee,
and I detest all my sins,
because I dread the loss of heaven,
and the pains of hell;
but most of all because
they offend Thee, my God,
Who are all good and
deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve,
with the help of Thy grace,
to confess my sins,
to do penance,
and to amend my life.

Amen.

He will usually give some small act of penance eg a few prayers. And you're done, you're clean!

postcynical

kelly1 wrote: »

I think the above passage shows that one must love God in order for the Holy Spirit to dwell within. Mortal sin by definition is a conscious rejection of God's will making love of God impossible.

A mortal sin is often an act rather than a disposition. Without being proud of it or using it as an excuse, we are sinners; we sin. If we sin I agree we reject God's love, but is contrition not possible after the act? (and I mean during a period of days between a sinful act and a formal confession)

As I understand it too, the Spirit works in all people, even those who are indifferent to understanding His workings (the nonreligious) and those who lead overtly sinful lives. There are people who consider themselves to be non-believers yet who display the ultimate witness of Christianity, they give themselves for others.

postcynical

Slav wrote: »

Eastern Churches have slightly different viewpoint on confession. The Church is seen as something that is above the time and therefore the Church gives an opportunity for everybody in their earthly life to experience and participate in past and future events. Same as the congregation enters that very room in Jerusalem around 30 AD for the Last Supper during the Holy Eucharist where Christ gives them His Body and Blood, the Sacrament of Confession brings penitent to the Last Judgement where Christ forgives their sins. That is the whole point of the sacrament. Also Orthodox tradition does not really divide sins to mortal and venial: all sins no matter how small are considered mortal and therefore there are no rules on what is mandatory and what is optional to confess: same as in the Last Judgement all sins will be uncovered.

This is a very interesting perspective, and the first I've heard of it. During the consecration in a Catholic Mass my mind usually wanders back to that very room in Jerusalem. This is a beautiful image of the Church transcending time and space.

I once attended an Orthodox Mass with a friend from Romania but I didn't really participate. I must try again. From your name, I'm guessing you're Russian Orthodox(?). Is this view common to both Russian and Greek Orthodox faiths?

postcynical

Slav wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken it was the Council of Trent that recognised that 'perfect contrition' reconciles men to God but the Sacrament of Penance still required at the first opportunity.

Thanks Slav and Kelly1, the answers to some of my questions are already out there:

RCC Catechism wrote:

1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called "perfect" (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.

The answer is reassuring but the "discussion" is enlightening:)

postcynical

ontour wrote: »

What I dont get is what are ya supposed to go in and actually say to the priest, fair enough if you have done somthing bad you need redemption from. But what if your just an average human being like myself am I ment to go in every two weeks and say bless me father for I have sinned I have been moody one or two days this week or I gave out to a younger sister. I don't think god is going to stop anyone at the gates to heaven for that or am I being naive.

Honestly, if you feel that way inclined at all, just pop into the priest and talk with him. Even in the confession box. Most priests are happy to see young lads with humble attitudes trying to deepen their faith and build a relationship with God. The priest in the box told me to say an act of contrition one time and I didn't have a clue what it was at all. He started the prayer and I remembered the words then, I'd learned them way back at my First Holy Communion.

I can't remember how to even say a confession the way it was thought in school anymore and I do in a way find this sad. I do however pray frequently enough as in twice or three times a month. I can't remember the last time I went to confessions and I'm 24.

I wouldn't worry about it at all. Just say it to the priest. The only reason you're considering this is to say sorry to God and to deepen your friendship with Him. If possible try getting a priest with whom you might have some sympathy. Also some religious orders are more involved in confession than others. Without knowing your temperament, I'd suggest the Dominicans if they're nearby you.

Slav

kelly1 wrote: »

Technically speaking, venial sins don't kill divine life in the soul so we are still just before God although the relationship is damaged. The ship has sprung a few leaks but hasn't sunk so to speak.

There could be a different analogy. Not a ship but a ceramic vase. It's either whole or it's broken no matter how small the crack is. Also I don't really like the ship model as the leaks (if there are many of them) could have the same effect as opening Kingston valves while venial sins according to the Catholic teaching don't add up to form a mortal sin.

Stricly speaking, only mortal sins need to be confessed but it's good to confess venial sins in order to make spiritual progress. Venial sins can be forgiven afaik by asking God directly for forgiveness and I do know that venial sins are forgiven by attending Mass.

I know this practice but I don't really understand why is it so. One can see it as undervaluing God's power so only "small" sins can be forgiven directly while for the serious sins to be forgiven fully and properly there is a need for a priest. I only have two guesses for the reasoning (and I hope neither of them is true) but I have never come across any good and somehow official explanation.

Interesting. I would disagree with all sins being mortal. I would basically make it virtually impossible to remain in a state of grace.

That's actually another interesting part the Catholic teaching that I don't understand (so I would very much appreciate if you point me to any source of information about it).

Why committing a mortal sin necessarily leads to the loss of grace? St. Paul said: "where sin increased, grace increased all the more" (Romans 5:20)

The woman in John 8:1-11 committed a mortal sin; she did not confess but still was forgiven by God's grace alone.

Same as the criminal in Luke 23:39-43 was forgiven by God's grace without confession.

To enjoy the grace is it not enough just to open the door? "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me." (Revelation 3:20)

Slav

postcynical wrote: »

I'm guessing you're Russian Orthodox(?). Is this view common to both Russian and Greek Orthodox faiths?

Yes, I am Russian Orthodox.
Being independent all Orthodox Churches (14 or 15) share the same teachings, including Greek and Russian.

postcynical

Slav wrote: »

The woman in John 8:1-11 committed a mortal sin; she did not confess but still was forgiven by God's grace alone.

Same as the criminal in Luke 23:39-43 was forgiven by God's grace without confession.

I'll wait for Kelly1's answers too. On John 8, this was the reading at Mass earlier this week and the corresponding old testament reading which preceded it was the story of Susana (Daniel 13). Now it's only juxtaposition that informs this, but perhaps the "adulteress" was actually innocent? I suppose not since Jesus tells her to sin no more. Certainly we hear of stories even in today's world of rape victims being accused of adultery. Sorry to speculate, but I thought you might find the connection interesting. I guess we have different liturgical cycles?
http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/inspiration_03mar2009.htm#28
(Monday March 30 readings)

Also, the criminal on the cross acknowledged his guilt to Christ himself and asked for reconciliation with the Father. Got away without the three Hail Mary's and the Glory Be too:)

Kipperhell

As a child a priest reminded me of something I said in confession on the street. He went on to tell me that he was a conduit to god and that he personally would know if I did something wrong. Pretty much made me realise that the church constructs were full of people with human egos. Of course as a child I mostly thought of the priest as a liar and a rule breaker but it was definitely formative.

Slav

postcynical wrote: »

I'll wait for Kelly1's answers too. On John 8, this was the reading at Mass earlier this week and the corresponding old testament reading which preceded it was the story of Susana (Daniel 13). Now it's only juxtaposition that informs this, but perhaps the "adulteress" was actually innocent? I suppose not since Jesus tells her to sin no more. Certainly we hear of stories even in today's world of rape victims being accused of adultery. Sorry to speculate, but I thought you might find the connection interesting. I guess we have different liturgical cycles?
http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/inspiration_03mar2009.htm#28
(Monday March 30 readings)

Also, the criminal on the cross acknowledged his guilt to Christ himself and asked for reconciliation with the Father. Got away without the three Hail Mary's and the Glory Be too:)

The connection is interesting indeed though my point was that we have no records in the New Testament that someone confessed their sins to Jesus and that opened the door for the grace. All that was required is a will to accept it. We don't even know whether the woman repented or not; we know that she just did not go away like all the others.

The criminal did not really acknowledge his guilt to Christ but to the other criminal. And there is a difference between acknowledging the guilt and repenting: the former does not necessary lead to the later.

So is it repentance that is needed to receive the grace (the sanctifying one in Catholic terms) or it's the other way around: the grace is received for the sins to be forgiven?

Re the liturgical cycle, yes it is different in Orthodox tradition. Actually, now it's this unusual time of the year when Gospels are not read at all during weekdays. During Lent weekdays it's the Presanctified Gifts Liturgy that is celebrated. One of the unique features of it is reading of the Old Testament only and it's Genesis and Exodus that are read these days.

chancer_007

how many act of contritions is there?

The priest then gives absolution and you say an Act of Contrition such as:

O my God,
I am heartily sorry for
having offended Thee,
and I detest all my sins,
because I dread the loss of heaven,
and the pains of hell;
but most of all because
they offend Thee, my God,
Who are all good and
deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve,
with the help of Thy grace,
to confess my sins,
to do penance,
and to amend my life.

Amen.

Pamela111

Overblood wrote: »

Bless me father for I have sinned, it has been like 11 years since my last confession....

There are many people who spend even longer away from Holy Confession. The important thing is to confess as much as possible with a sincere heart on the return. It requires a change of life and a period of reconcilliation with the Christ. On return it is important to frequent the Confessional as often as possible, 2-3 weeks for laity or every week for those consecrated to God.

Overblood wrote: »

Why is there a need for confession? Where did confession originate? Did Jesus listen to peoples confessions?

When our connection is broken with the Christ through habitual sin or mortal sin we need a consecrated mediator between us and Jesus who has apostolic powers. Jesus did indeed hear confessions with tax collectors and others but since He is God He did not have to hear the sins in all cases as He knew their sins. He simply touched them and told them to go that their sins were pardoned. Confession was given to the Apostles after His resurrection along with the sacrement of confirmation. Holy Confession is an extremely important sacrement.

Overblood wrote: »

Why does a priest have to listen to confession? Why can't you confess in prayer? Or confess to some magic wall or something?

John 20:23: "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

Jesus gave the apostolic power to the apotles to forgive sins. He did not give it to ourselves. That is not to say that temporal punishment due to sins is removed, it is not. Why not confess to a priest who is bound to keep your sins a secret and who you probably will never see again? Why is it such a big deal?

Overblood wrote: »

Would you feel uncomfortable confessing to a priest?

Yes, but its better than eternal damnation plus a good priest will help give good healing and make us strive to reform our lives. Also, he is bound to secrececy and we will probably never see him again anyway.

Overblood wrote: »

Do you go to hell if you don't confess?

If we fail to acknowledge sin and reform then yes we choose eternal damnation.

Overblood wrote: »

How long has it been since your last confession?

1 day.

Pamela111

Soul Winner wrote: »

Yes, none of his business. But I have no gripe with anyone who wants to confess their sins to God via priest. Just don't tell me that in order for my sins to be forgiven that I have to. I don't.

'And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock (petra) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it' (Matthew 16: 18)

General absolutions are not part of the Catholic Church for which Peter was the first Pope. All Catholics must avail of the sacrement of Holy Confesssion and should not endanger their souls by engaging with any priest who performs this practise.

Our Lady of Garbandal: As my Message of the 18th of October has not been complied with, and as it has not been made known to the world, I am telling you that this is the last one. Previously, the Cup was filling; now, it is brimming over. Many priests are following the road to perdition, and with them they are taking many more souls. Ever less importance is being given to the Holy Eucharist. We should turn the wrath of God away from us by our own efforts. If you ask His forgiveness with a sincere heart. He will pardon you. I, your Mother, through the intercession of St. Michael the Archangel, wish to tell you that you should make amends. You are now being given the last warnings. I love you very much, and I do not want your condemnation. Ask Us sincerely and We shall grant your plea. You must make more sacrifices. Reflect on the Passion of Jesus.

Pamela111

Mickeroo wrote: »

Is confession not a bit of a get out of jail free card in some ways? If someone lead a really crappy life do you think they should still get into heaven if they go to confessions before they die?

Also, is the last rites a confession of sorts? It's to cleanse the soul before they pass on?

The bottle may be still full but who's bottle will be biggest? In other words every good is rewarded, even the smallest thing but every sin and evil is punishable, even a thought. Each of us will receive a different level of Glory in Eternity. Every second is a grace from God. Make the most of it doing good and also prayer is extremely important.

Also, who is to say that sins forgiven means that punishment is removed? No, temporal punishment is due on this earth or in purgatory for sins forgiven but in need for more penance and for venial sins hence we can spend hundreds of years in purgatory under great duress. Even at Fatima, there was a little child who dies and it was said that the child was in purgatory and would be until the end of the world.

PDN

Pamela111 wrote: »

Even at Fatima, there was a little child who dies and it was said that the child was in purgatory and would be until the end of the world.

That's one of the most powerful arguments against Catholic doctrine that I've ever heard. I would rather be an atheist than accept such a teaching.

Fanny Cradock

I thought the RCC had stepped back from the whole purgatory thing?

Slav

No, Purgatory is still one of the RCC doctrines. Maybe you are confusing it with Limbo for infants?