Women wrestlers thread - Discussion of ability only!

ShawnRaven

Folks, for something completely different.
The opportunity to discuss the ability of the women in wrestling. We don't get these discussions that often, and I think it'd make for interesting discussion/debate.

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The rules: (failure to adhere to will result in infractions and bans)
1) This is not hot or not, so pics are out unless it's for a description of a finisher or a move.
2) This is also not to go down the route of a trainwreck of a thread like the Ashley Massarro one last year, nobody cares if she's do-able, not for this thread anyway.
3) Dead Promotions and retired wrestlers can be discussed, past and present, will make for interesting comparison aka Sherri Martel v Candice Michelle etc
4) And this is the most important one, enjoy yourselves.

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Let's get the show on the road!
Personally, and i know I'm not the only one that's put a spin on this as Machismo Fan mentioned it for Destination X. But what's the deal with the TNA Knockouts these days? Only a few short months ago they were the sole reason for watching TNA but now they've become the laughing stock of the cards! Newer additions like Madison Rayne & The Governor aren't particularly helping and am I the only one who still thinks that Taylor Wilde is as bland as she was when she first joined the promotion? Even sticking ODB into that match would save it, or at least made it more watchable.

On the WWE side of it, it's gotten a little better with the likes of Maryse, Natalya, & Michelle McCool. SD needs to get rid of Maria though, actually on a whole WWE needs to get rid of her, or at least keep her out of the ring!

On the RAW side, we have Beth Phoenix and Melina outshining everyone else on their roster in my honest opinion, but what the hell are WWE doing with the women there for the biggest card of the year?

They have their two champions in a "divas(c)(tm) and (R)" battle royal! Y'know, with the current economic climate, one would think Vince would be looking for reasons to use less of the roster (specifically the less talented like Jillian, who has gone rapidly downhill, and Maria!).

Meh, it's all in a state.
Any thoughts folks?

Lita Forever

Great thread. It's nice to have a mod that listens to what people have to say. ..Erm..not that the other mods didn't, but I happened to be discussing this with SR last night and..yeah. Lol. Anyways, I'll post my thoughts later when I have more time. Thanks for posting this SR.

callaway92

hmmm...Need more Natalya on my screen

EDIT: This thread lacks pics

ShawnRaven

callaway92 wrote: »

EDIT: This thread lacks pics

It's meant to, Do NOT push me

Fozzy

I fast forward through all the women's matches on Raw and Smackdown these days. It just reached a point where there were too many bad matches for me. I fast forward through other stuff too, it's not just the women I'm picking on. If I noticed a Mickie vs Natalya match or something like that, I'd watch

I used to enjoy watching Beth, in the ring and out of it with Santino, but she doesn't seem to be as good as she used to

On the topic of womens wrestling, some of the best wrestling that I've ever seen was from a womens promotion, AJW in Japan in the early '90s. Akira Hokuto and Manami Toyota are two of the best workers ever in my opinion

ShawnRaven

Actually, speaking of Japan, anyone remember the Jumping Bomb Angels, Noriyo Tateno and Itsuki Yamazaki, brief sting in WWE around 87, 88? Their stuff at the 87 Survivor Series and the 88 Royal Rumble was pretty impressive to watch and knocked spots off most of the high flying guys then.

Not sure if they ever went to AJW afterwards though.

Rjd2

I utterly detest Beth at the moment, she has being pushed down our throat despite the fact that she while she is decent, and she simply does not have the ability that fits her insane push. She also has no charisma at all, and can’t get a reaction to save her life, what makes it worse a wrestler like Jillian who gets an insane amount of heat has to rot on the Beth show. It does not help that she only loses by pin up in very rare circumstances that she is not squashing someone in her dull matches. The Raw division is good without Beth, but seeing as they don’t utilise others as Vice has an obsession with Beth.
The SD scene thankfully does not have Beth which is a huge advantage. Mc Cool who despite the internet hating her, actually unlike Beth gets a reaction and knows how to work and gets them involved. She also got some good matches out of Maryse as well. Gail Kim is on that show soon which I am looking forward to as well. Hopefully we will see Gail v Michelle that could be great. Just don’t end the brand split, Beth on all shows:(:(:(:(

MickL

Rjd2 wrote: »

I utterly detest Beth at the moment, she has being pushed down our throat despite the fact that she while she is decent, and she simply does not have the ability that fits her insane push. She also has no charisma at all, and can’t get a reaction to save her life, what makes it worse a wrestler like Jillian who gets an insane amount of heat has to rot on the Beth show. It does not help that she only loses by pin up in very rare circumstances that she is not squashing someone in her dull matches. The Raw division is good without Beth, but seeing as they don’t utilise others as Vice has an obsession with Beth.
The SD scene thankfully does not have Beth which is a huge advantage. Mc Cool who despite the internet hating her, actually unlike Beth gets a reaction and knows how to work and gets them involved. She also got some good matches out of Maryse as well. Gail Kim is on that show soon which I am looking forward to as well. Hopefully we will see Gail v Michelle that could be great. Just don’t end the brand split, Beth on all shows:(:(:(:(

Are trying to make the point that Jillian is a better wrestler than Beth?
If so,
ARE YOU BLIND?
Jillian cannot wrestle to save her life god love her!

thebeanz

Rjd2 wrote: »

It does not help that she only loses by pin up in very rare circumstances that she is not squashing someone in her dull matches. The Raw division is good without Beth, but seeing as they don’t utilise others as Vice has an obsession with Beth.

Beth is pushed as a star because she is a star. Did you see the i quit match between beth and melina. It was fantastic.

The reason for squash matches on raw is simple, limited tv time, long matches are saved for ppv's. Squash maatches can be done fast and help build up a star as dangerous but also as someone fans want to see losing. When beth loses it makes an impact on most fans.

Rjd2

MickL wrote: »

Are trying to make the point that Jillian is a better wrestler than Beth?
If so,
ARE YOU BLIND?
Jillian cannot wrestle to save her life god love her!

Ok I will take that back, but to be honest at least Jillian matches may be fun, Beth matches= Rjd2

I have watched enough Raw matches to come to conclusion she is nowhere near as over as Vince wants her or her supporters think. I do admit though I am in the minority as the internet love Beth!

dsmythy

Pity the women's title isn't being defended on the night. I guess it will be good to see a few stars of the past. Of course all will be forgiven if Maryse is crowned Miss Wrestlemania and gives an acceptance speech in French.

krudler

callaway92 wrote: »

hmmm...Need more Natalya on my screen

EDIT: This thread lacks pics

Good, last thing we need is **** material for people

I dont usually watch many of the divas matches, Beth, Melina, a few of the others, but theres WAY too many useless divas on the roster, during that lumberjack match or whatever it was last week on raw there were at least 5 divas ringside and I had no idea who they were, since vince wants to cull the roster why not start with the dead weight there? get rid of all but Melina, Beth, Mickie, Maryse, Kelly, Michelle (how many divas names begin with M?!) and fire the rest, women in wrestling made a bigger impct when there was less of them on the roster, think back to the days when you had Sunny, Chyna, Ivory, Trish and a handful of others as managers and occasional competitors. Theres nothing wrong with women wrestling at all but if they cant then they shouldnt be forced on fans as supposed wrestlers, make them valets instead, like Santino, but with boobs:D

ShawnRaven

krudler wrote: »

Good, last thing we need is **** material for people

This is the last time i will say this, but if anyone else back seat mods, i'll be handing out the bans like there's no tomorrow. I already addressed this, it didn't need an exclamation point!

ShawnRaven

dsmythy wrote: »

Pity the women's title isn't being defended on the night. I guess it will be good to see a few stars of the past. Of course all will be forgiven if Maryse is crowned Miss Wrestlemania and gives an acceptance speech in French.

This is exactly whats wrong with womens wrestling in general. It reeks of Debra's "Queen of the WCW" gimmick in WCW, and same with Nora Greenwald as Miss Madness a couple of years later. I wouldn't mind, but Greenwald could actually wrestle, in fact the she was probably the best from 2000-2003 in the WWE before Trish finally learned how to work.

And that's my particular fear with this Miss Wrestlemania sh*t. When that's all over with and done, if the person they throw that gimmick on is actually good in the ring, you can be guaranteed all ring skills will go right out the window, not for the lack of them, but the lack of the need to use them.

Lita Forever

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Actually, speaking of Japan, anyone remember the Jumping Bomb Angels, Noriyo Tateno and Itsuki Yamazaki, brief sting in WWE around 87, 88? Their stuff at the 87 Survivor Series and the 88 Royal Rumble was pretty impressive to watch and knocked spots off most of the high flying guys then.

Not sure if they ever went to AJW afterwards though.

The Jumping Bomb Angels were active into the 2000's as they were only in their teens/twenties when they wrestled in the WWE. Prior to the WWE they had worked for the WWA promotion in Japan.

Noriyo Tateno is still active to this day I believe. Following the WWE, she worked or the LLPW (Ladies Legend Pro Wrestling) in Japan. She also worked for AJW, where she had high profile matches against Madusa in 1990.

Itsuki Yamazaki didn't really do much in wrestling after the WWE. I think she worked as commissioner for an American promotion called PW Elite in 2006, but that was about it. I also heard she came out of retirement for a JBA reunion last year, but I haven't been able to get anymore information on that.

My favorite matches from the Angels, aside from their WWE work, is probably their matches against the Crush Girls, (Lioness Asuka & Chigusa Nagayo) from AJW. I might post up some videos in the video thread later.

Incidentally, the Survivor Series 1987 match is one of my all time favorite WWE womens matches on PPV. It's a great match to watch for anyone unfamiliar with what womens wrestling was like in the WWE in those days.

ShawnRaven

Lita Forever wrote: »

Incidentally, the Survivor Series 1987 match is one of my all time favorite WWE womens matches on PPV. It's a great match to watch for anyone unfamiliar with what womens wrestling was like in the WWE in those days.

If you haven't seen the Rumble 88 match, dig it out.
I've seen other matches of theirs from house shows on some of the best of Coliseum tapes that also stood out as pretty memorable.

Would also have liked to have seen them go against each other.

Lita Forever

Check the video thread.

ShawnRaven

Scuse me while i bow down

slicus ricus

WWE

I personally would like to see Mickie James utilised more effectively - i think she's the best worker on the womens roster and is super over with the crowd. Somehow, Vince and the WWE hierarchy have always been skeptical about pushing her for too long.

I think Melina is excellent as well and deserves the push she seems to be getting. Some of the matches she and Mickie James had a couple of years ago were awesome, want to see more of that.

I don't understand all the anti Beth Phoenix comments, I think she adds a different dimension to the womens division in that she is so much more powerful than the others, believability is always important. While lacking a little in charisma, her work is solid and having Santino there works well and actually uses her weakness as a strength.

I would like to see Katie Lea Burchill given a chance, what i've seen of her has been good and could definately add to the division.

Nattie Neidhart should definately be given a push in my opinion. She is very good technically and like Beth has power about her, which make her winning mathes believable.

I wouldnt be a fan of McCool at all, i don't think her talent warents the push she has received and from the things i've read from her blog, it would appear that her attitude is terrible.

I've been impressed by what i've seen of Maryse and hope her push continues. Gillian can also add to the division and Kelly Kelly has improved leaps and bounds in last while.

I don't rate Candice Michelle, Maria, Layla El and the likes as wrestlers. Maria could have a function as a backstage interviewer or valet or general eye candy but not as a wrestler. Candice, in my opinion, is completely useless and should be released immediately.

TNA

Kong, Angelina Love, Velvet sky, Roxi and ODB are definately the cream of the division. Taylor Wilde has good potential as does Cheerleader Melissa/ Raesha Saeid. They've made a bit of a mess of things by introducing the Governor and possibly Madison, although I am willing to give the latter a chance to prove her merit. Really looking forward to Sarah Stock coming in.

Independant

No expert on indy womens wrestling, but one performer I would love to see on wwe or tna is lacey. Thought she was excellent when in IwW and in all the clips i've seen of her elsewhere.

Machismo Fan

The one thing you have to give TNA credit for is, despite the slide in quality recently, that they treat the Knockout division with a lot more respect, eg. two matches at Destination X both with build. They were looking like they were building the division around the Kong/Hemme (who has improved massively recently and hopefully her injury won't hinder that improvement (like Candice Michelle)).

I don't know what anybody sees in Melina, I think she is awful and constantly sloppy. Beth needs a good opponent and any time Maria wrestles I throw up. Maryse has good charisma but isn't the greatest wrestler and McCool is a good wrestler but has zero personality.

Undoubtedly Kong and Kim are the top two major womens wrestlers in America. To see Kim with that Barbie doll belt will sicken me.

Rjd2

Ricus Mc Cool is in character in her blog, she is meant to be pretty ok in real life. I think she wrote a pretty touching tribute to Victoria the other week.

slicus ricus

Rjd2 wrote: »

Ricus Mc Cool is in character in her blog, she is meant to be pretty ok in real life. I think she wrote a pretty touching tribute to Victoria the other week.

I agree with you about the tribute to Victoria, very classy and deserves respect. However, when she responds to the criticism she receives from internet fans on her blog, there's no way it's in character! In fact, the first few times she did so, she was still a face! She comes out with all this - i've put so much work in and busted my a$s off to get here, how dare anyone criticise - type of stuff, which i think is just pathetic. If you want respect from internet fans, then continue to apply the work ethic you claim to apply and stop complaining!

ShawnRaven

slicus ricus wrote: »

She comes out with all this - i've put so much work in and busted my a$s off to get here, how dare anyone criticise - type of stuff, which i think is just pathetic. If you want respect from internet fans, then continue to apply the work ethic you claim to apply and stop complaining!

I agree with this entirely, Victoria, and others like her tend to forget fans, be it internet or not help make or break people like her.

slicus ricus

ShawnRaven wrote: »

I agree with this entirely, Victoria, and others like her tend to forget fans, be it internet or not help make or break people like her.

I was actually talking about Michelle McCool. Can see where the confusion may lie from my prior post!

ShawnRaven

slicus ricus wrote: »

I was actually talking about Michelle McCool. Can see where the confusion may lie from my prior post!

Victoria did do it too a couple of years back though. One in particular where she lashed out because internet fans "read too much into the fact that she wasn't featured in the latest SVR game at the time"

slicus ricus

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Victoria did do it too a couple of years back though. One in particular where she lashed out because internet fans "read too much into the fact that she wasn't featured in the latest SVR game at the time"

Oh right, wasn't aware of that! It's pure madness, they ought to realise that the fans are the ones the product is aimed at and that they are entitled to be critical (within reason). If they want to please the fans, they should up their game and not blame the fans.

Lita Forever

I haven't enjoyed women's wrestling in WWE for a long time now. Both Raw and Smackdown's divisions seem to lack direction and are kind of just there.

Despite having been a big fan of Melina from her debut until her injury, I haven't been enjoying her lately at all. I find her face character to be extremely bland. So we're supposed to believe the same arrogant, spiteful heel Melina who had bitter feuds with Mickie and Candice is now best buddies with them? Yeah, right, whatever. I haven't been enjoying Melina's in ring work lately either. I find her style to be really choppy, and while she tries to come off as innovative in the ring, a lot of the spots she attempts come off messed up. Instead if working a technical, high flying style, which served her well in the indies, she's going all out to be innovative, and it's not working.

Beth meanwhile is playing second fiddle to Santino. I'm not sure where this angle with Rosa is meant to be going but I sure wish it would hurry up and get there. The most over face in the division, Mickie hasn't done anything of note in ages. They need to turn her heel and bring back her psycho character asap.

I like Kelly, and she seems dedicated to improving as a worker, but right now she's just a spot monkey, recycling the same two or three spots in every match. Jillian is just a jobber, when she's capable of so much more. I enjoyed Candice during her first big push in 07, but she's looked terrible since her comeback. Layla is barely even worth mentioning.

Over on the Smackdown side, things aren't much better. Maryse seems to have lost a lot of momentum since returning from her injury, and I don't enjoy her as much as I used to in the ring. Maybe it's just a matter of reestablishing herself, I don't know. The fans FINALLY react to Michelle following her heel turn, and she has improved her wrestling skills greatly. I never thought I'd say it, but she's one of the bright spots of the division for me right now.

Maria has improved, but is still nowhere near where a women with her level of experience should be. I'm convinced she'll never amount to anything in the ring. Perhaps she'd make a good valet..I'd rather her just be released though to be honest. The fans don't give a crap about the Bellas..but then WWE has given them no reason to, beyond pushing the fact the Bellas are twins. More could have been done with the big reveal of Nikkie as Brie's twin, but it wasn't to be. A potential breakup storyline between the two could be interesting..but judging by how WWE has handled them so far, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Gail Kim is presumably gonna re-debut on Smackdown to feud with Maryse & Michelle. That's is WWE even remember she's under contract. I actually wouldn't be surprised if WWE release her without doing a thing with her. She's not above the treatment other ex TNA stars have gotten. I think a run with the butterfly belt followed by a release and sift return to TNA may be the best her fans can hope for.

slicus ricus

Lita Forever wrote: »

Beth meanwhile is playing second fiddle to Santino.

I completely disagree. I think pairing Beth with Santino has helped Beth so much in terms of giving her straight type character someone with charisma to bounce off. It's almost like he's her valet and as i see, he is 2nd fiddle to her.

Lita Forever wrote: »

I'm not sure where this angle with Rosa is meant to be going but I sure wish it would hurry up and get there.

If it ends with Beth splitting from Santino, its bad news for Beth because she will go back to being bland and uncharismatic. Hopefully for Beth, it will just end up in a fued between her and Rosa with Santino staying with Beth.

Lita Forever wrote: »

Gail Kim is presumably gonna re-debut on Smackdown to feud with Maryse & Michelle. That's is WWE even remember she's under contract. I actually wouldn't be surprised if WWE release her without doing a thing with her. She's not above the treatment other ex TNA stars have gotten. I think a run with the butterfly belt followed by a release and sift return to TNA may be the best her fans can hope for.

I certainly hope that doesn't happen and i can't see it happening, not after all the effort WWE went to to get Kim signed up. They offered her quite a large contract, which i would imagine was because they really wanted her on the roster. I doubt it was to take her from TNA because apparently Vince doesn't consider them competition. I reckon she probably asked for time out before starting up on a full time schedule with WWE; as if i remember correctly, she took some time out at the end of her TNA contract and spoke about wanting a bit of a break.

Lita Forever

slicus ricus wrote: »

I completely disagree. I think pairing Beth with Santino has helped Beth so much in terms of giving her straight type character someone with charisma to bounce off. It's almost like he's her valet and as i see, he is 2nd fiddle to her.

At the start of the angle I would have agreed with that. But in recent times it looks to me like Beth is just playing second fiddle to Santinos comedy. Look at the Royal Rumble match. While Beth is in there defending her title, the fans are chanting for Santino. So much so that he even has tell them to stop a couple of times. It couldn't have really been any more obvious as to who was playing second fiddle to who.

ShawnRaven

Gotta side with LF on this one. It was a good pair to begin with as they were using each other to get each other more over. But these days, Santino is trying to get more over using Beth and Beth isn't getting anything back.

Strictly my opinion on the little amount that i have seen.

slicus ricus

Lita Forever wrote: »

At the start of the angle I would have agreed with that. But in recent times it looks to me like Beth is just playing second fiddle to Santinos comedy. Look at the Royal Rumble match. While Beth is in there defending her title, the fans are chanting for Santino. So much so that he even has tell them to stop a couple of times. It couldn't have really been any more obvious as to who was playing second fiddle to who.

That's just because Santino is over with the crowd - i certainly don't think it's an intentional thing to have Beth play second fiddle to Santino; after all, Beth was the one in the title match with Santino at ringside while later on Santino got eliminated from the Rumble in record time! It reminds me of when Armando Estrada was more over than Umaga - it was the same thing: not intentional, just sort of happened.

Given the fact that Santino is so over due to his charisma, it can only be a good thing to have Beth associated with him given her flaws in that department. As i've mentioned in an earlier post, I actually reckon the pairing converts this weakness into a strength - the straight character co-existing with the crazy, over the top character.

Lita Forever

Whether or not it's intentional that Beth is second fiddle to Santino..it's still the case. I wouldn't use Santino being eliminated from the Royal Rumble so quickly to support your argument as it's part of Santino's gimmick that he's a crap wrestler. he always gets beaten in seconds..and only ever scores fluke wins. His character is all about comedy not wrestling.

I did enjoy the Glamerella pairing at the start. It gave Beth the chance to show some of her personality, and got her over more with the crowd. But that purpose has been served now and it's time to move on. Let Santino do his comedy on his own..he doesn't need to be associated with Beth any longer. Let Beth go back to the division and become the dominating Glamazon again. As for Rosa, they can just release her for all I care. From what I've seen of her she's useless in the ring, and her acting performances so far have been largely unconvincing.

ShawnRaven

Lita Forever wrote: »

Whether or not it's intentional that Beth is second fiddle to Santino..it's still the case. I wouldn't use Santino being eliminated from the Royal Rumble so quickly to support your argument as it's part of Santino's gimmick that he's a crap wrestler. he always gets beaten in seconds..and only ever scores fluke wins. His character is all about comedy not wrestling.

Yep, it's what i like to call Honky Tonk Man syndrome. Granted people did that long before him too, but HTM probably drew the most money from 87-88 with it during his stint as IC champion. Santino won't even come close to it too. And WWE know it.

I did enjoy the Glamerella pairing at the start. It gave Beth the chance to show some of her personality, and got her over more with the crowd. But that purpose has been served now and it's time to move on. Let Santino do his comedy on his own..he doesn't need to be associated with Beth any longer. Let Beth go back to the division and become the dominating Glamazon again. As for Rosa, they can just release her for all I care. From what I've seen of her she's useless in the ring, and her acting performances so far have been largely unconvincing.

I'm so glad you're back, saves me a sh*t load of typing.

michael.etc...

I have to agree with the sentiments regarding Beth- as much as I loved the Glamarella pairing, the ship has sailed (perhaps prematurely, but regardless), and i'd like them to find a new role for Santino.

In general, my problem with most of the ladies we see on television in the WWE, is that the biggest compliment that we can muster is such-and-such is "improving". To me, having acts on TV who are at best, solid, or average, is a disgrace, there's plenty of well-rounded, exciting talent out there.
Thus, i can't say enough good things about Shimmer...

ShawnRaven

michael.etc... wrote: »

I have to agree with the sentiments regarding Beth- as much as I loved the Glamarella pairing, the ship has sailed (perhaps prematurely, but regardless), and i'd like them to find a new role for Santino.

I'd like to see WWE wish him all the best in his future endeavours personally. But we won't stray too far off topic there.

In general, my problem with most of the ladies we see on television in the WWE, is that the biggest compliment that we can muster is such-and-such is "improving". To me, having acts on TV who are at best, solid, or average, is a disgrace, there's plenty of well-rounded, exciting talent out there.
Thus, i can't say enough good things about Shimmer...

Well that's just it. Vince tends to push more for the T&A route. How he thinks he can go for the PG route and then encourage them for the cover of Playboy will be an interesting one. Especially when the kids scream for a copy of it because Maria is on the cover.

(Teenagers with kids mentality do not count!)

Rjd2

Lita Forever wrote: »

But that purpose has been served now and it's time to move on. Let Santino do his comedy on his own..he doesn't need to be associated with Beth any longer. Let Beth go back to the division and become the dominating Glamazon again. As for Rosa, they can just release her for all I care. From what I've seen of her she's useless in the ring, and her acting performances so far have been largely unconvincing.

Erm she still is Beth needs Santino badly as Beth without him is just never going to get over. Beth was getting crickets before she was with Santino and without him that is the reaction she will get.
Some people are wondering about Kim, including yourself Lita, they have started doing some hype videos of her on SD.It is good to see that she will be on SD as their is a serious lack of faces on that show so she will probably go straight into a title feud. She just would end up getting squashed by Beth on Raw if she was on that show.

slicus ricus wrote: »

I agree with you about the tribute to Victoria, very classy and deserves respect. However, when she responds to the criticism she receives from internet fans on her blog, there's no way it's in character! In fact, the first few times she did so, she was still a face! She comes out with all this - i've put so much work in and busted my a$s off to get here, how dare anyone criticise - type of stuff, which i think is just pathetic. If you want respect from internet fans, then continue to apply the work ethic you claim to apply and stop complaining!

To cut her some slack, she gets an incredible amount of stick from the internet due to her relationship with Taker, and from those who wrongly group her in with useless barbie dolls like Maria or the Bella twins, which is absurd when you consider the fact that she has shown fellow internet darling how to wrestle.

ShawnRaven

Yeah i'd have to agree here, SD has much more talent to cater for Kim's wrestling style than RAW does.

michael.etc...

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Well that's just it. Vince tends to push more for the T&A route. How he thinks he can go for the PG route and then encourage them for the cover of Playboy will be an interesting one. Especially when the kids scream for a copy of it because Maria is on the cover.

Crazy... it's like taking your kids to see the ****ing Pussycats Dolls...

The thing that drives me absolutely nuts, (and this isn't an attempt to enter into an erm, naughty conversation about appearance), is that some of the female workers out there, yeah are really hot, and would provide that aspect without taking away from the quality of the action. Looks and talent are not mutually exclusive, and there is absolutely no need to favour certain individuals purely because of their looks at the expense of giving us actual quality wrestling.

Speaking of the Jumping Bomb Angels- is the Survivor Series match with them, the one where Jimmy Hart takes the absolutely hilarious bump backwards through the bottom rope? Freakin' amazing.

ShawnRaven

michael.etc... wrote: »

Speaking of the Jumping Bomb Angels- is the Survivor Series match with them, the one where Jimmy Hart takes the absolutely hilarious bump backwards through the bottom rope? Freakin' amazing.

LF will probably be able to provide more info there. I haven't seen either match in about three years. As the Bomb Angels faced the Glamour Girls at the Rumble 88 as well. So i can't remember which was which.

slicus ricus

Lita Forever wrote:

Whether or not it's intentional that Beth is second fiddle to Santino..it's still the case. I wouldn't use Santino being eliminated from the Royal Rumble so quickly to support your argument as it's part of Santino's gimmick that he's a crap wrestler. he always gets beaten in seconds..and only ever scores fluke wins. His character is all about comedy not wrestling.

Ok, I see where you're coming from. My point was that it was not intentional for Santino to be more over than Beth - in my opinion the intention was to push Beth with the support of Santino, so I don't think it's a fault on WWEs part in their treatment of Beth. That said, regardless of who's 2nd fiddle to who, I still maintain that Beth will be bland without Santino and won't get over with the fans. If WWE split them up, the would really want to have a super interesting angle for Beth (which i don't see happening) to save her from blandville!

michael.etc... wrote: »

In general, my problem with most of the ladies we see on television in the WWE, is that the biggest compliment that we can muster is such-and-such is "improving". To me, having acts on TV who are at best, solid, or average, is a disgrace, there's plenty of well-rounded, exciting talent out there.
Thus, i can't say enough good things about Shimmer...

I agree with that 100%. WWE should be signing established womens wrestlers from the likes of Shimmer (and other indy promotions) rather than signing glamour models and trying to turn them into wrestlers which is always gonna be hit and miss, with miss being the more likely outcome.

As somebody pointed out also, being a good wrestler and being pleasing on the eye (I'm only mentioning this bcos it's clearly important to Vince & co in the WWE) is not mutually exclusive. There are loads of attractive indy wrestlers out there with tonnes of ability who would offer so much more than those currently being recruited by WWE.

rjd2 wrote:

To cut her some slack, she gets an incredible amount of stick from the internet due to her relationship with Taker, and from those who wrongly group her in with useless barbie dolls like Maria or the Bella twins, which is absurd when you consider the fact that she has shown fellow internet darling how to wrestle.

The fact that she gets a lots of heat from Internet fans is not really up for debate in my opinion, as it is true by all accounts. I just think that her reaction does her no favours as it is unprofessional and shows lack of character in my opinion. Look at the amount of heat Cena gets from internet fans (among other fans!) for example - when have you ever heard him mouthing off at fans in a critical way? Instead, he gets on with his work and shows respect and gratetude to the fans who have had a large hand in putting him where he is today. Perhaps miss McCool should take a leaf out of Cena's book.

Lita Forever

michael.etc... wrote: »

Speaking of the Jumping Bomb Angels- is the Survivor Series match with them, the one where Jimmy Hart takes the absolutely hilarious bump backwards through the bottom rope? Freakin' amazing.

Yup, that's the one.

rossie1977

very good post slicus ricus, i firmly believe vince and co have set out a marker both for male and female wrestlers "if you are not attractive you are not getting over"

chopperbyrne

Molly Holly was always my favourite female wrestler. Was able to get the best ou of all the other girls and was a big part in turning Trish from an eye candy valet to a very solid worker.

Currently Beth is the best WWE have.

TNAs Knockout division has lost a lot of the momentum it had about a year ago. Probably because of the loss of Kim.

ShawnRaven

chopperbyrne wrote: »

TNAs Knockout division has lost a lot of the momentum it had about a year ago. Probably because of the loss of Kim.

Can't agree there at all. TNA just don't seem to be using them that well. ODB, Love & Skye, Christy Hemme and Roxxi are more than capable of keeping the momentum going. People act like Gail Kim carried that division on two legs, and clearly that's not the case.

chopperbyrne

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Can't agree there at all. TNA just don't seem to be using them that well.

Which would make the Knockouts division lose momentum. They certainly have talented workers. I used to watch Impact solely for the womens matches, but don't bother anymore as it hasn't been booked very well since Kim left.

ShawnRaven

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Which would make the Knockouts division lose momentum. They certainly have talented workers. I used to watch Impact solely for the womens matches, but don't bother anymore as it hasn't been booked very well since Kim left.

Which is fair enough, but it's not because of the fact that Kim left that the momentum was lost.

dsmythy

The upcoming ECW broadcast will be Divas night. Only Divas in action so they say.

ShawnRaven

I should be intrigued...
... then i remembered, it had the dreaded "Divas" tag on it.

Meaning we'll get Jillian vs Layla in a Playboy Pillow fight or something equally sh*tty.

Tricity Bendix

Why did they put Katie Lea and Nattie Neidhart on ECW? Just why? Both are seasoned wrestlers, neither are having to learn what they're doing while they're on air. Use Kelly Kelly et al for the valet work and let the wrestlers wrestle. Madness.

JP Liz

I'm really not keen on Michelle TheTool at all - she is getting too much of a push because of who she is doing and she is very sloppy in the ring

I'm glad Gail Kim is back hoping to see her feud with Nattie or Mickie or even Beth

Lita was my favourite WWE female wrestler its a shame how she was treated in the end and also the pisspoor send off she got

Rjd2

JP Liz wrote: »

I'm really not keen on Michelle TheTool at all - she is getting too much of a push because of who she is doing and she is very sloppy in the ring

I'm glad Gail Kim is back hoping to see her feud with Nattie or Mickie or even Beth

Lita was my favourite WWE female wrestler its a shame how she was treated in the end and also the pisspoor send off she got

I like Mc Cool to be honest, she has improved drastically and she has made Maryse decent. I love Maryse and all but to be honest it was Mc Cool who carried her in their matches. I have seen Maryse go at it without Mc Cool and it pains me to say it she is not that great. Gail is back on SD as well and if you go over to the SD spoilers thread you will see who she goes after.
I watched Beth the other night on Raw, yet again she failed to get a reaction, she was sloppy and no sold Melina. She is not awful but its scary how people have her as some sort of messiah of women’s wrestling. :(


EDIT : To add this, Mc Cool in character obviously but still:D

Former Butterfly Champion Michelle McCool was recently quizzed by the WWE Universe as part of a weekly webchat. Lady McC had quite a lot to say about Gail Kim, Lilian Garcia, Molly Holly, Maryse, Maria, and others.

On WrestleMania 25:
I'm not nervous! I'm EXCITED! Old, new.....the divas better bring their 'A' game because I have all intentions of leaving every single one of them laying! Yes, I'm excited. This wil be my first "in ring" wrestlemania! I KNOW my chances are good...are you being serious with that question? I plan on making sure they know this is MY world and they are just passing through.


Michelle's ideal surprise Mania entrant:
Molly Holly! I've always really respected her in the ring, but have never had the chance to face her.


On Gail Kim:
I always liked watching her, but I don't think she has what it takes! I mean, she's ok - but she's not anything special!


On Maryse:
Maryse has had her chance to shine and what has she done...faked an injury? Wrestled Maria? Whoopty do....She's only looked good b/c I made her look good. Said it before, she has 3 moves in her moveset and when all else fails, she flips her hair. That's TALENT?


On Vickie Guerrero:
I think Vickie does a great job. She's a woman who knows what she wants!


On the forthcoming WWE Draft:
The draft is always fun, because it shakes things up! Plus, I need new challenges...not that any of the Raw girls are a challenge by any means


On Maria:
Maria has NEVER beat me without some sort of distraction! Seriously...Maria needs to join forces with Eve. The two of them need to quit "playing" wrestler and battle it out where they belong - BACKSTAGE on the mic interviewing!


On winning the Divas Championship for a second time:
I know I'll win the title...it's not 'IF', it's 'when'


On Lilian Garcia entering Miss WrestleMania:
I think she's considered a 'diva! If I were that close to the ring at WM, I think it'd be stupid not to get in the ring.