When did this forum become so anti-BMW?

Owen

Just curious. Every example of VRT importing, claims of rip-off-republic prices, and servicing comparissons between south and north are consistently BMW orientated. I don't think I've seen someone do the same with Lexus, Fiat, Audi, Ford, Toyota, or Merc.

I'm not really bothered by it personally, but just curious why the pitchfork is directed solely at BMW?

Voodoomelon

I see what you mean, but I don't think people like the whole Sterling collection offer. But the whole BMW thing was going on before that, so maybe its because BMWs are now an attractive buy seeing as they have become more affordable?

Owen

Voodoomelon wrote: »

But the whole BMW thing was going on before that

It wasn't too long ago when the VRT changes were announced that this forum was praising BMW for being the first people to alter their prices and publish them.

Like I said, it doesn't bother or affect me one way or the other, but it just seems that the last 3 months here discussing VRT, price differences between the UK and Ireland that BMW have been the only example used and it'd be interesting to find out why.

245

I think that a lot of people the forum aspire to a BMW as a car with a desirable image, dynamic handling and some petrolhead cred. This mean that they tend to view things only in terms of BMW or in comparison to BMW. Its tunnel vision really and not too far off the much derided perceived tunnel vision (on this forum anyway) of Toyota owners who have different priorities but a similar one marque view of life.

TomMc

I think the majority of imports from the UK in more recent times anyway are/were mostly German marques. And BMW and Audi been more aspirational than most. Price savings will always be greater the higher up the market you go. Maybe though BMW's appeal to the more aggressive types.:D

Darragh29

ned78 wrote: »

Just curious. Every example of VRT importing, claims of rip-off-republic prices, and servicing comparissons between south and north are consistently BMW orientated. I don't think I've seen someone do the same with Lexus, Fiat, Audi, Ford, Toyota, or Merc.

I'm not really bothered by it personally, but just curious why the pitchfork is directed solely at BMW?

I'm glad I didn't start this tread and someone else did because I've been biting my tongue all morning while reading the thead on BMW servicing!

The reason is simple, the people who buy BMW's just don't want to spend money servicing and maintaining them, it's a fur coat and no knickers mentality. They want to be seen in the expensive set of wheels but when it comes to the understandably higher service costs, they think erronously that they are being ripped off, because the reality is that they can't afford to maintain the more expensive car that they bought.

Owen

Darragh29 wrote: »

it's a fur coat and no knickers mentality

I find your ideas intriguing, and wish to subscribe to your newsletter

245

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm glad I didn't start this tread and someone else did because I've been biting my tongue all morning while reading the thead on BMW servicing!

The reason is simple, the people who buy BMW's just don't want to spend money servicing and maintaining them, it's a fur coat and no knickers mentality. They want to be seen in the expensive set of wheels but when it comes to the understandably higher service costs, they think erronously that they are being ripped off, because the reality is that they can't afford to maintain the more expensive car that they bought.

I agree - there have been quite a few posts of this forum where someone has bought a BMW and then been outraged at the price of repairing it (often quite soon after the purchase - which raises its own questions). They seem to think that because something is cheap to buy that it should be cheap to run and don't realise that the running costs have driven down the resale price.

I admire BMW engineering (most of it anyway) and design (ditto). I just question the insight of someone who buys a BMW and then can't understand why its doesn't have Focus level maintenance costs.

That fur coat and no knickers imagery is quite distracting!

conlonbmw

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm glad I didn't start this tread and someone else did because I've been biting my tongue all morning while reading the thead on BMW servicing!

The reason is simple, the people who buy BMW's just don't want to spend money servicing and maintaining them, it's a fur coat and no knickers mentality. They want to be seen in the expensive set of wheels but when it comes to the understandably higher service costs, they think erronously that they are being ripped off, because the reality is that they can't afford to maintain the more expensive car that they bought.

But Darragh you know that BMW do charge a HUGE amount for servicing.

If you owned a BMW (dont know if you do already) it would only cost you parts to service and very little time.
How much would your parts be for 520d 04 for an ordinary service, oil air fuel filters. How long would it take you. I reckon you would have change from €70 and it would take you an hour most.

Meanwhile BMW garage is charging 300 or 400 for this.

I love BMW's, they are fab cars and I have owned a few of them. But the dealers have been buying and bringing loads in from the UK since early last year and they are not passing on savings to customers.

Darragh29

I've actually toned down my anti-BMW views lately since I had a spin in my mates X5 a week or two ago. There is no doubt it is a well designed vehicle with no expense spared for comfort. But the guy who owns it can afford to pay 2K for a service for this vehicle. He can afford the style he has paid for. Not so with many BMW drivers.

Cyrus

darragh surely you see the difference in being able to afford 2k for a service and being ripped out and being a mug

i own an e46 m3, its an expensive car to run, tyres are expensive, oil is expensive parts are expensive,

however i have it serviced at an independent i trust, not for the cost saving (altho they are cheaper) but for the fact that i trust them with my car that i am so particular about myself.

i can afford to get it serviced by a main dealer, i choose not to

maidhc

ned78 wrote: »

Just curious. Every example of VRT importing, claims of rip-off-republic prices, and servicing comparissons between south and north are consistently BMW orientated. I don't think I've seen someone do the same with Lexus, Fiat, Audi, Ford, Toyota, or Merc.

I'm not really bothered by it personally, but just curious why the pitchfork is directed solely at BMW?

The forum is BMW obsessed. No idea why.

pburns

245 wrote: »

I think that a lot of people the forum aspire to a BMW as a car with a desirable image, dynamic handling and some petrolhead cred. This mean that they tend to view things only in terms of BMW or in comparison to BMW. Its tunnel vision really and not too far off the much derided perceived tunnel vision (on this forum anyway) of Toyota owners who have different priorities but a similar one marque view of life.

Darragh29 wrote: »

The reason is simple, the people who buy BMW's just don't want to spend money servicing and maintaining them, it's a fur coat and no knickers mentality. They want to be seen in the expensive set of wheels but when it comes to the understandably higher service costs, they think erronously that they are being ripped off, because the reality is that they can't afford to maintain the more expensive car that they bought.

Some great points there... Love 245's comparison of BMWs being a similarly default choice for ther upowardly mobile - it's so true!

I don't think the forum is anti-BMW, it's the exact opposite. BMW is a yardstick and/or aspiration for a large percentage of boardies.

kdevitt

Darragh29 wrote: »

The reason is simple, the people who buy BMW's just don't want to spend money servicing and maintaining them, it's a fur coat and no knickers mentality. They want to be seen in the expensive set of wheels but when it comes to the understandably higher service costs, they think erronously that they are being ripped off, because the reality is that they can't afford to maintain the more expensive car that they bought.

God, its not like you to generalise. :rolleyes:

rebel.ranter

The reason there are so may posts on this forum about BMWs is car enthusiasts tend to gravitiate towards them. There are also other cars that enthusiasts hanker after:
Honda Type R
Skoda VRS
Ford ST
Alfas
Mini (original)
Beetle (original)
(insert model applicable your self)
Apologies if I have left out other obvious enthusiast-type cars.
But there is not the same level of people interested.

You can now buy a 2002-2003 BMW 5 series for €10k- €12k that would have cost €70-€80k when new (assume lots of options fitted at these prices). People assume that the running costs also drop to 85% too. That always baffles me! Even though the purchase price is reduced the service costs remain the same. In fact I would go as far as to say the running costs go up the older the car gets.
Factoring in replacing shocks/springs (done these this morning:D), thermostats, radiators, etc. it can get quite expensive.

As for BMW themselves they know people have bought in to the brand, its image & desirability. It is therefore right they charge a premium to people for the privilege of enjoying their brand. When I say "right" I mean it makes good business sense for BMWto maximise the return from their product. Coca Cola do it, Guinness do it, etc.

I would disagree with the generalisations made on here sometimes with regard to BMW owners, the "fur coat no knicker" type comments. There are a hell of a lot of BMWs out there that are properly maintained. An independent garage that is not a BMW specialist (like AC Car Sales or MMW) is far more likely (if statistics were doone ) to meet the "tight" BMW owner so I would say that may explain the skewed view of some independent mechanics towards BMW owners. Enthusiasts will most likely do the work themselves or go to an independent specialist. The newer purchases would end up staying with in the main dealer network especially now with Service inclusive packages being sold with new BMWs.

Mildly interesting aside #1: A friend of mine actually sees the "Service Inclusive" package as a waste of money. The reason? He normally changes the cars every 3 years (X5 & wife's 7 series) but they really only get two visits to the dealer in that period due to mileage done. Not sure how much that package costs but I'm sure it is a lot more than an oil service and an inspection 1.

Mildly interesting aside #2: I heard of a well-known Cork dealer (non-BMW) that recently sold a 2004 e60 530d (new model) 87k miles for €6,000. I think it may have been at auction.

DanGerMus

BMWs are great. They're much more affordable than they used to be and you get a lot of quality for the money. If you're buying new you'd be mad not to purchase the service pack and they've got 3 year warranty(can you purchase extended warranty?) so, and many people don't realise it, if something goes in warranty you don't pay a cent. If your warning light comes on and you drop it in to any BMW dealer in europe even if they find nothing wrong you should not be paying for anything nothing as long as it's in warranty.
People do get caught out by dealers for this because generally dealerships will try and charge you.
So if you get the service pack then for the first 3 years you should be handing over NO MORE money. After three years either trade in/upgrade or if you don't want to pay premium go to a good indi.

MarkN

I'd love to know what X5 costs 2k to service when I have the type of BMW that would be at the upper end for service costs and still wouldn't cost that price.

Honda08

245 wrote: »

I think that a lot of people the forum aspire to a BMW as a car with a desirable image, dynamic handling and some petrolhead cred. This mean that they tend to view things only in terms of BMW or in comparison to BMW. Its tunnel vision really and not too far off the much derided perceived tunnel vision (on this forum anyway) of Toyota owners who have different priorities but a similar one marque view of life.

desirable image? as in carisma look alike 3 series? :eek:

what you want is one of these

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Honda/Legend/3.5L-SH-/200848191047727/advert
:P

PauloMN

ned78 wrote: »

Just curious. Every example of VRT importing, claims of rip-off-republic prices, and servicing comparissons between south and north are consistently BMW orientated. I don't think I've seen someone do the same with Lexus, Fiat, Audi, Ford, Toyota, or Merc.

I'm not really bothered by it personally, but just curious why the pitchfork is directed solely at BMW?

I think a lot of it might be to do with the fact that the modern BMW diesels result in a low VRT rating thanks to low emissions. These cars would have been in the 30% bracket a couple of years ago, and many now fall into the 16% bracket. Comparing the Irish price of a used 3 series a couple of years old with that of a UK import yields some interesting results, hence I guess there'd be a lot of chat about the differences.

I suppose this combined with strong euro and dealers dropping prices means people who would never have considered cars like BMWs can now do so. Like it or not (and I've never owned one), they are desireable cars in general.

Biro

MarkN wrote: »

I'd love to know what X5 costs 2k to service when I have the type of BMW that would be at the upper end for service costs and still wouldn't cost that price.

I was wondering the same. That guy is being ripped off, and maybe it's the customers from that garage who are doing the complaining.
VW rip off for servicing too. People on this forum don't have a pick on BMW.

jonnygee

I used to enjoy E92,s posts, a bmw expert, where has he gone. is he still on boards.

JohnCleary

I've an E46 and while I do find general servicing a bit more expensive (I stick with the recommonded BMW LL recommended oil and use OEM filters) it's not stupid expensive - it's all about where you get your bits from.

ie. I get the filters from the BMW dealership, but I bought my MAF direct from a Pierburg dealer in the UK as opposed to going to the dealer. Similarly, I just had the turbo refurbished as the seals were on their way out - if I went to BMW they would have prob told me a new turbo whereas I got a total overhaul in the UK for £260 from Turbo Technics - Tis about using your head.

I'd be proud when selling the car to show receipts that I didn't skimp. TBH you're only fooling yourself in the long run as I wouldn't buy a decent'ish car without evidence that the owner gave it the respect it deserved (mind you, could say that for any car so don't take BMW as a specific example)

JohnCleary

MarkN wrote: »

I'd love to know what X5 costs 2k to service when I have the type of BMW that would be at the upper end for service costs and still wouldn't cost that price.

Who knows, could have been ragged with high milage... may need 4 new shocks (or cracked springs) including plenty of bush's to be changed etc. etc. the list goes on, could be anything. However I just suspect really high labour rates :pac:

mick.fr

Hold on - There are people not driving BMW??












Just messing :-)

Darragh29

BMW isn't a brand or a product, it is a cult. Like all cults, people get sucked into them and anything rational you try to tell them gets rejected.

BMW is about image and perceived ego. A lot of people, when they reach a certain stage of their life, need to get a BMW to define who they are and how they want to be percieved and this is what keeps the BMW cult alive. As long as humans need to differentiate themselves from their peers in terms of their perceived social standing, we will have BMW's..

eirlink

they are just great cars.....imported or otherwise.
regardless of "perception"

the "ultimate driving machine" is subjective, unless you have driven an aston martin.....so just appreciate the aspiration... and then....

go get one!

towel401

a lot of the oldskool bmw's are used by boi racer types now. kind of a shame really

DanGerMus

Darragh29 wrote: »

BMW isn't a brand or a product, it is a cult. Like all cults, people get sucked into them and anything rational you try to tell them gets rejected.

BMW is about image and perceived ego. A lot of people, when they reach a certain stage of their life, need to get a BMW to define who they are and how they want to be percieved and this is what keeps the BMW cult alive. As long as humans need to differentiate themselves from their peers in terms of their perceived social standing, we will have BMW's..

Ah i don't know man. I see what you're saying and there is a certain amount of the image ego thing ie base 316i (ugh why bother just buy a toyota and get more for your money). But when you buy a proper 6pot all leather you get more into what they're about.

But it's not like it's completely baseless. They still do make great cars to drive. The few i've sat in have all just felt better than a lot of other cars on the road.

Voodoomelon

Darragh29 wrote: »

BMW isn't a brand or a product, it is a cult. Like all cults, people get sucked into them and anything rational you try to tell them gets rejected.

BMW is about image and perceived ego. A lot of people, when they reach a certain stage of their life, need to get a BMW to define who they are and how they want to be percieved and this is what keeps the BMW cult alive. As long as humans need to differentiate themselves from their peers in terms of their perceived social standing, we will have BMW's..

To be honest, the BMW image is all about being a cock, so I very much doubt BMW drivers aspire to be like that. I don't drive a BMW because I want to be a BMW driver, I drive my BMW because it is the EXACT car I want, I don't even like many other BMWs, including all the X's, Z's, and the common as muck 5 series E60.

My next car will more than likely not be a BMW, a second hand Quattraporte looks mighty tempting. But I do agree that people are buying BMWs and then giving out about the cost of a service, I mean so what if its €500, its a premium marque and you will pay more for the privilige of owning one.

However, €1000+ services are scam, they use less than €100 worth of parts, spend no more than a couple of hours (if even) on your car, and then ask you to pay for nominal items like brake pads ontop of the original quote.

Whoever paid €2000 for a service on an X5 almost certainly had some major repair work carried out at the same time, like a suspension rebuild or the like. Its €1400 for an Inspection ll X5 service by BMW.

mick.fr

Voodoomelon wrote: »

To be honest, the BMW image is all about being a cock, so I very much doubt BMW drivers aspire to be like that. I don't drive a BMW because I want to be a BMW driver, I drive my BMW because it is the EXACT car I want, I don't even like many other BMWs, including all the X's, Z's, and the common as muck 5 series E60.

My next car will more than likely not be a BMW, a second hand Quattraporte looks mighty tempting. But I do agree that people are buying BMWs and then giving out about the cost of a service, I mean so what if its €500, its a premium marque and you will pay more for the privilige of owning one.

However, €1000+ services are scam, they use less than €100 worth of parts, spend no more than a couple of hours (if even) on your car, and then ask you to pay for nominal items like brake pads ontop of the original quote.

Whoever paid €2000 for a service on an X5 almost certainly had some major repair work carried out at the same time, like a suspension rebuild or the like. Its €1400 for an Inspection ll X5 service by BMW.

I really do not know where you getting your BMW experience from...
There is people driving bimmers because of the image for sure but have not clue about them really, and there is the others, the enthusiats who know a bit more and shop around with independent specialists, but I fail to see where you stand?
No offense meant, I am just confused with your answer.

Pique

rebel.ranter wrote: »

Mildly interesting aside #2: I heard of a well-known Cork dealer (non-BMW) that recently sold a 2004 e60 530d (new model) 87k miles for €6,000. I think it may have been at auction.

Fooook...that is mental and probably a myth.

I agree with the 'aspirational' aspect but I've seen too many people with 'poverty spec' beemers. flat cloth seats, wind-up windows, steel wheels, no 'mod-cons' at all (apart from leccy mirrors, which I had on my '88 320i) and think of themselves as having 'made it' and they have no interest in cars and wouldn't know an oil filter from a bag of spuds and don't realise that the car sells itself, (IF you look after it, privately or by Garage maintenance) if you buy the right one in the first place and not just to have the BMW Keyfob.

"Fur Coat & No Knickers" I've heard before about a guy who owned a 911 but lived in a house worth 160k....twat.

Voodoomelon

mick.fr wrote: »

I really do not know where you getting your BMW experience from...
There is people driving bimmers because of the image for sure but have not clue about them really, and there is the others, the enthusiats who know a bit more and shop around with independent specialists, but I fail to see where you stand?
No offense meant, I am just confused with your answer.

No offense taken. But I fail to see what you don't understand about what I said, did I contradict myself in some way?

Essentially what I was saying is I bought the car I wanted, badge or image didn't come into it, I bought what I deem to be a magnificent car that I believe will one day be a classic.

mick.fr

Voodoomelon wrote: »

No offense taken. But I fail to see what you don't understand about what I said, did I contradict myself in some way?

Essentially what I was saying is I bought the car I wanted, badge or image didn't come into it, I bought what I deem to be a magnificent car that I believe will one day be a classic.

Whatever it is 3am, let's chill

Voodoomelon

Lol, i'm chilled, you're the one that asked the question and I still don't understand what you meant!

mick.fr

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Lol, i'm chilled, you're the one that asked the question and I still don't understand what you meant!

I was not telling you to chill, I simply meant I am not able to think straight anymore at 3 am, so let's just forget about this As I said I meant no harm. Night...

Darragh29

Here's the fact of it from my own perspective. I'd love to have a new X5, but I wouldn't buy one simply because it is a BMW and I don't want to be in the BMW cult. I can afford one, but I simply wouldn't want to be seen in a BMW. As for the car itself, absolutely beautiful, well built and the height of comfort, but I don't do cults.

I accept that there are genuine enthusiasts here on the forum that appreciate BMW's from a comfort/motoring angle, but there is a sizable element of BMW drivers who belive that social/class distinction is alive and well in Ireland and BMW is the brand that they feel they have to use to underscore that distinction in respect of their own perceived standing.

For example, I know 2 lads who got promoted in their jobs in Dublin, into lower management roles from non-management positions, both in large organisations. What's the first thing they do??? Go out and buy a BMW!!! What in the name of Jasus is that all about???

I've another mate who works as an engineer and the same thing, upon getting promoted, he has to go out and buy a BMW, "because the other engineers all have them". All we are missing here lads is David Koresh!

Matt Simis

Darragh29 wrote: »

I've another mate who works as an engineer and the same thing, upon getting promoted, he has to go out and buy a BMW, "because the other engineers all have them". All we are missing here lads is David Koresh!

Youre totally correct.
I hate that mentality and it does irk me and does dampen the thought of ever getting a BMW. My other half cannot stand BMWs due to this clique.

I do however try to rationise it to myself tho that these plebs are buying 318s or the new de facto BMW, the 520d. They dont buy M5s, M3s, 6 series, 7series, 535d's, any Touring models, not even X5s in fairness. So there is still scope for enthusiasts buying BMWs isnt there? Isnt there?!

rebel.ranter

Pique wrote: »

Fooook...that is mental and probably a myth.

Definitely not a myth.

Anan1

I'd rename this thread "When did BMW drivers become so sensitive?" Honestly, a lot of people aren't mad about my choice of car - do you think I lose sleep over it?:)

pburns

Darragh29 wrote: »

Here's the fact of it from my own perspective. I'd love to have a new X5, but I wouldn't buy one simply because it is a BMW and I don't want to be in the BMW cult. I can afford one, but I simply wouldn't want to be seen in a BMW. As for the car itself, absolutely beautiful, well built and the height of comfort, but I don't do cults.

I accept that there are genuine enthusiasts here on the forum that appreciate BMW's from a comfort/motoring angle, but there is a sizable element of BMW drivers who belive that social/class distinction is alive and well in Ireland and BMW is the brand that they feel they have to use to underscore that distinction in respect of their own perceived standing.

For example, I know 2 lads who got promoted in their jobs in Dublin, into lower management roles from non-management positions, both in large organisations. What's the first thing they do??? Go out and buy a BMW!!! What in the name of Jasus is that all about???

I've another mate who works as an engineer and the same thing, upon getting promoted, he has to go out and buy a BMW, "because the other engineers all have them". All we are missing here lads is David Koresh!

Yeah, that sums up my aversion to BMWs... I respect many of their cars as great products but they've become the Toyota of the aspirational greasy-pole climber. BoooooooooooRING!!!! But at least BMW stick doggedly to such principles as RWD, perfect weight distribution etc. - unlike their main competitor whose main USP seems to be, eh...'nice' interiors:rolleyes:...

Biro

Matt Simis wrote: »

Youre totally correct.
I hate that mentality and it does irk me and does dampen the thought of ever getting a BMW. My other half cannot stand BMWs due to this clique.

I do however try to rationise it to myself tho that these plebs are buying 318s or the new de facto BMW, the 520d. They dont buy M5s, M3s, 6 series, 7series, 535d's, any Touring models, not even X5s in fairness. So there is still scope for enthusiasts buying BMWs isnt there? Isnt there?!

No true enthusiast would buy an X5.

Owen

I suppose the point of the original question has been diluted a bit. I was just asking when the Forum became anti-BMW not why people choose to drive BMWs. I meant specifically that every time there's a VRT comparisson between the UK and Ireland to show what a rip-off-republic we have, it's always BMW, etc.

Darragh29

ned78 wrote: »

I suppose the point of the original question has been diluted a bit. I was just asking when the Forum became anti-BMW not why people choose to drive BMWs. I meant specifically that every time there's a VRT comparisson between the UK and Ireland to show what a rip-off-republic we have, it's always BMW, etc.

I think you need to understand the subtle cult mentality here. The purpose of the BMW driver moaning about VRT differences and discussing such comparisons, is primarily to tell other members that he has a BMW. There is a whole psychology to what is happening here. It is a process of mutual identification and recognition of each other as accepted members of the cult...

Owen

Darragh29 wrote: »

I think you need to understand the subtle cult mentality here. The purpose of the BMW driver moaning about VRT differences and discussing such comparisons, is primarily to tell other members that he has a BMW. There is a whole psychology to what is happening here. It is a process of mutual identification and recognition of each other as accepted members of the cult...

But take for example our recent addition to the Forum - LoveDucati2, the guy obviously has a seething passionate hatred for BMW and doesn't own one, and he's not alone. There are users here who don't own the cars, and use them solely as examples for the rip-off-republic, and yet don't do it for other marques.

rebel.ranter

Why do people not from Manchester support Manchester United? That is more puzzling to me!

BMW do make a good driver's car. That is a good enough reason for people to choose them. They are making some really ugly beasts at the moment though (X6 is the worst).
That is one that explains why there is a bit of a following among motoring enthusiasts.

I still cannot work out why people lose the plot & take every opportunity to slate someone for owning a BMW.

I still can't see the "cult" though. There are morons that buy them that haven't clue about cars just because they have the money.

ArphaRima

Because the entire country went off and bought 320d's etc in the last 2yrs. As said previously it's just a plain uninspired and boring choice.
Also Irish people tend to stretch to a higher marque rather than spec the brand they can afford. So the roads are filled with low-spec under-powered BMW's.
This drags the perception of the brand down for what is obviously an excellent manufacturer.

-Chris-

ned78 wrote: »

I suppose the point of the original question has been diluted a bit. I was just asking when the Forum became anti-BMW not why people choose to drive BMWs. I meant specifically that every time there's a VRT comparisson between the UK and Ireland to show what a rip-off-republic we have, it's always BMW, etc.

I think it's because BMW have chosen to import UK cars themselves, making their pricing very transparent all of a sudden.

If you do a UK Audi vs Irish Audi comparison (or any other marque you choose to focus on), you'll get the standard "yeah, but you don't know what price the factory is selling cars into Ireland for" or "yeah, but the cost of running a business is higher in Ireland, which leads to higher prices" arguments.

With BMW, because they're importing cars themselves, then the pricing becomes much easier to compare. I can tell you what it would cost me as a private punter to import a '07 520d, I can see what BMW are charging for the same car in their Sterling Collection - I have a fairly even playing field to assess what additional margin the BMW dealers are putting on their cars.

I think if Toyota or Ford started officially importing and selling cars from the UK, you'd get the same comparisons too.

TomMc

BMW's just appeal to a much wider demographic now since the boom years. In the 70's the default family car choice was a Cortina, the 80's a Sierra, the 90's a Mondeo and now in the last decade a 3/5-Series. The Irish (buying) motoring public are very conservative and hold on to a lot of stereotypical views. Mercs and Jags more for an older audience. Audi's appeal mostly to those wanting to upgrade from a VW. Toyota for marque loyalists with a one dimensional view of motoring life.

That leaves BMW. They have broader appeal as they can be all things to all people in a way most others cannot. They appeal to the social-climber as much as the enthusiast, the twenty and thirty-somethings along with the junior or senior executive, and will pull in buyers from a wider pool. They are the natural progression from a more performance oriented Ford, Alfa, Honda as well.

Ultimately though, it is down to the savings. The greater the figure the more incentive there is to import. People aren't going to bother for a grand. But if it is 2/3/4/5,000+ then that is a different story. And if people have more of an interest in cars, they will be more inclined to import. Whether it is to drive the car or just as a fashion accessory. Except for a few niches here and there, the majority of people are going to be importing executive or more expensive cars. The savings are far greater in this market. It is probably also the case that younger (single) people been the most likely to be importing in the first place. BMW's tick all the boxes here to a greater degree.

Seweryn

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I do agree that people are buying BMWs and then giving out about the cost of a service, I mean so what if its €500, its a premium marque and you will pay more for the privilige of owning one.

Well, if you wish to pay more for the same service (than you would pay if you own a cheaper car), you can.
I service my cars myself (I am not a mechanic) and recently I changed the engine oil (about €70 for fully synthetic oil + €5 to dispose the old oil), air and oil filter (about €15 for both), etc. I also replaced two faulty parts - the engine coolant thermostat (about €11), thermostat housing (about €15) and the outside temperature sensor (about €20). Whichever way you look at it, the parts and oils are not dearer than for any other cars, the labour for the above works would take about 2 hours. So why would you pay extra for the same service or why would you pay €500 for 2 hour of labour including €100 for parts and oils?

Regards.

JohnCleary

fluffer wrote: »

Because the entire country went off and bought 320d's etc in the last 2yrs. As said previously it's just a plain uninspired and boring choice.
Also Irish people tend to stretch to a higher marque rather than spec the brand they can afford. So the roads are filled with low-spec under-powered BMW's.
This drags the perception of the brand down for what is obviously an excellent manufacturer.

I have a 320d and it's far from boring. Granted it's not the fastest thing on the road but plenty of poke for me combined with high mpg. Though in fairness I did get a high spec SE (Leather, Xenon, Heated Seats, Parking Sensors, A/C, non standard suspension, cruise control etc. etc.) - I wouldn't like it half as much if it were a poverty spec I reckon

Considering the safe speed to be driving on Irish roads, a 320d (150BHP) is perfect for me needs - plenty of torque to overtake and a nice cruise at ~100km/h / 120km/h

Eric Cartman

towel401 wrote: »

a lot of the oldskool bmw's are used by boi racer types now. kind of a shame really

what is the e30 obsession by the 17-22 year olds at the moment, i just dont get it , and the prices reflect, a 89-92 e30 316i is the same money as a 97-98 e39 318i