advise on proposed changes to the firearms laws

paul1972

i have been told by someone official that the proposed changes to the firearms laws are far more sweeping than anybody thought possible and affect all branches of the sport...clay shooting and deer stalking ect,,,target shooting will be very hard hit the only form the minister for justice and the garda commisioner approve of is the olympic disiplines and all other forms will be so curtailed as to make them impossible to continue with ,,,even though there is no sound reason for doing this.......clay shooting will also suffer as clubs will be responsible for removing the spent lead shot from the land the club is situated on and a ban on the use of lead shot anywhere near waterways or lakes,,,deer stalking will be very restricted as stalking will only be available to those who can afford to lease land or clubs who will control deer for farmers under strict conditions as to calibers allowed and becoming a sport for the elite once again ,,,,,also they want to restrict the ammount of firearms you can hold to two with restrictive security conditions which include monitored alarms and even more expensive gun safes , semi auto rifles over .22 cal and semi auto shotguns will be out ,,, the person who said this feels it will pass in april due to the fact everybody thinks the proposed changes only involve pistols and revolvers and nobody is kicking up about it ,, nobody is sending e-mails to their local politicians or any of the ministers ,,,also the shooting bodies are keeping quite hoping their diciplines will be left alone but none will .... please say this cant be so....

whydave

Great time to grab your ankles lads ..........:mad:

Sparks

1) Who's "someone official",
2) If you think that noone thought the changes would be sweeping, you've missed the two enormous threads and the several side threads on them in here and you've never spoken to anyone in the admin side of the sport in the last five years,
3) The bans and controls on lead shot are EU laws being proposed, not Irish laws being enacted,
4) Have you sent this to your shooting body and gotten any response.

rrpc

paul1972 wrote: »

nobody is kicking up about it ,, nobody is sending e-mails to their local politicians or any of the ministers ,,,also the shooting bodies are keeping quite hoping their diciplines will be left alone but none will .... please say this cant be so....

It's very hard to kick up about something that is as ephemeral as mist. All we've got so far is rumour and counter-rumour. How can you kick up about something you don't know?

If any legislation is being brought forward, the time to kick up is when it's published. Then we'll have something concrete to debate rather than hearsay and rumour. Any bill will have to go through the Dail and the Seanad and that's when we'll have an opportunity to get our spoke in.

Sparks

And until it's been shown to the Dail, by the way, noone is meant to see it outside the Minster's staff - it's not like it's not been asked for - because to do so would be to tell the Dail that whomever saw it first was more important in the political process than the Dail. "Showing contempt" was the way it was put at the last FCP seminar (and the point is highlighed in the thread on that seminar in here).

chem

Sparks wrote: »

And until it's been shown to the Dail, by the way, noone is meant to see it outside the Minster's staff - it's not like it's not been asked for - because to do so would be to tell the Dail that whomever saw it first was more important in the political process than the Dail. "Showing contempt" was the way it was put at the last FCP seminar (and the point is highlighed in the thread on that seminar in here).

Again sparks I have to love your blind faith;) If it is ment to be done the way its ment to be done, well thats the way it will be done.:rolleyes:

Alot of the "rumours" mentioned before the CJB turned out to be true or very close to the mark. I cant see how this will be any different.

I hope to be having a meeting with minister Ahern tomorrow so will see what I can find out.

If anyone can help with some questions I might not of taught off let me know:)

Sparks

chem wrote: »

Again sparks I have to love your blind faith;) If it is ment to be done the way its ment to be done, well thats the way it will be done.:rolleyes:

Not blind faith - more that if it isn't done this way, someone is getting a bollocking from the Minister when it comes out.

Alot of the "rumours" mentioned before the CJB turned out to be true or very close to the mark. I cant see how this will be any different.

A lot of the "rumours" were that the CJB would be a tiny, tiny thing that'd do nothing but good for the sport. Don't pee on my back and tell me it's raining, I was there at the time, and I remember looking at the amendments to the CJB when McDowell first published them, and myself and jaycee had kittens at some of the stuff in there and we were told, extensively, by certain folks (who are now calling for riots in protest at the Misc Bill) that there was nothing to worry over, that it was all going to be fine and to stop being so chicken little about it.
Irony's a funny thing...

I hope to be having a meeting with minister Ahern tomorrow so will see what I can find out.

Well, don't tell him he wrote a letter to the Supers, okay chem? I asked the DoJ about that this morning and they confirmed that the Minister does not and did not write to the Superintendents like that. (Whether or not the Commissioner did is another thing).

If anyone can help with some questions I might not of taught off let me know:)

Let us know the questions you have thought of first, would you?

chem

Sparks wrote: »

Let us know the questions you have thought of first, would you?

Good thinking:pac:

1. Are pistols over .22 to be banned or will they be placed on the restricted list?
2. Is it only 9mm pistols that are the problem? (depending on answer to above)
3. Are any types or calibers of rifles to be banned?
4. What security will be required for those who already hold a pistol cert after the misc bills inacted.
5. Will you be placing a limit on the number of firearms that one person can hold?
6. Reloading is it going to be allowed? And if so what restrictions will be put in place?
7. Will compensation be provided by the government, for handguns if a full ban is put in place?
8. Will there be a amnisty for pistol owners who have applied for an export licence, but due to a delay in processing have unlicenced firearms?


Im still working on it. Only home from work and have to ring his office tomorrow to see if he will be available for the meeting. But if not tomorrow I will keep pushing as he is my local TD

Sparks

Given events up north chem, I suspect you might be told he's a little busy. Especially since the next FCP meeting is so close (early april). But try anyway, everything gets noticed and (almost) everything helps.

BornToKill

paul1972 wrote: »

i have been told by someone official

You really have to give us a little more than that. Who has all this 'secret plans' information. Without a credible source, it's just more rumours.

Grizzly 45

Chem,
You could also ask ;is the reloading issue going to be possible,and doable within the remit of normal man?Not requiring more extensive security arrangements, fire dept,and H&S checks ,audits etc?
What will the qualifications be to reload,based on which country?,and will there be a public consultation process on this?

2] If any or all pistols are to be banned,what and who will be in charge of , and decide the value and compensation of said pistols and ALL Accessories and spare parts???And for range equipment,and lands used for pistol shooting of any type??
How long will it take to issue said compensation?
How much will it cost the Irish taxpayer in administration,storage and security of said process?
Will the DOJ expedite the export paperwork within `14/21 days for all those who wish to move their firearms out of Ireland?As this is the norm for European govts and beaurraccies to turn around paperwork relating to firearms matters,and Ireland being part of the EU is woefully slow on this matter?Will all pistol holders wishing to dispose of their firearms outside the ROI be exempt from proscution by the Gardai for possesion of unliscensed firearms,if they have stated this intent in writing to both DOJ and Gardai and are waiting for export permits which have not been issued due to beauracratic slowness???[Happened in the UK post Dunblane in a few cases]

chem

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Chem,
You could also ask

Have a look at the above edit. OK?

Grizzly 45

Good enough for Govt work!:D;)
Suppose you could also ask,under what specific grounds or reasons and proof thereof,that they pose a viable risk to the public should handguns be banned that are held by the liscensed gunowner,and the same reasons why should any paticular rifle or calibre be banned as well under the same proof of reasoning?

chem

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Good enough for Govt work!:D;)

Dont want to confuse the poor lad buy asking complex questions;) I do intend inviting him to a range in NI

Grizzly 45

Good luck on that one Chem.He is supoosedly notoriously anti gun! Still we might have a road to Damascus..err.. Kells NI conversion??:D:D

Sparks

I'd say leave the reloading bit to one side - he'll just say that's to be dealt with in the rewrite of the explosives act, and to be fair, that is what we've been hearing from the FCP.

I would be interested to know exactly how he plans to ban any specific firearm - ie. what mechanism in law will be used.

And a conversion isn't needed; just for everyone to follow the rules...

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

I'd say leave the reloading bit to one side...

Easy to say when you're not affected by it.

IMO there is no reason this couldn't have been sorted with the rest of the stuff.

Sparks

Except that the original legislative change to handle it was rushed through the door by McDowell, and his rushed legislative changes have since acquired a certain reputation for being 'troubled'.

But if you do go in to meet a Minister, it's best to keep the meeting simple, with a tight focus. That's just meetings for you. Set up another one later for reloading.

CJhaughey

Sparks wrote: »

But if you do go in to meet a Minister, it's best to keep the meeting simple, with a tight focus.

Ahh the KISS principle no?

Sparks

Yes, but the second one, not the engineering one
(Keep It really Simple)

bunny shooter

CJhaughey wrote: »

Ahh the KISS principle no?

It's the final "S" that really sums up the current minister eh CJ

Meyer

paul1972 wrote: »

the person who said this feels it will pass in april due to the fact everybody thinks the proposed changes only involve pistols and revolvers and nobody is kicking up about it ,, nobody is sending e-mails to their local politicians or any of the ministers ,,,also the shooting bodies are keeping quite hoping their diciplines will be left alone but none will .... please say this cant be so....

It cant be so, A. for reasons said above in the other posts, i.e. The Dail has to see the new legislation, before anyone else...That is unless you "official" is in the DOJ working on the legislation? and B. The Minister has stated that existing licences will be renewed providing we all build nuclear proof bunkers or some other silly security measures and, I quote from DOJ "The Minister considers that his proposals will not cause inconvenience to the vast majority of gun owners, who have had no interest in acquiring hand guns." If anything else is put in the new legislation, that comment is a clear lie.

bunny shooter

And sure a politican never lies

Only changes their minds

Meyer

bunny shooter wrote: »

And sure a politican never lies

Only changes their minds

LOL that's true...But if the above is true, It would be high time for the "F@@k you Jack, I'm OK" types to get their fingers out and start realising that unity is strength, and that were the vast majority of firearms owners to protest against such legislation, it would be such a sizeable voting block, that it would make Ahern sit up and say "this isn't what we need right now..."

Sparks

More to the point, what we're talking about here has no named source, no proof of any kind, and certainly I've never gotten the sense from talking to the people in the DoJ and FCP that they're that underhanded. The Minister might be a bit of a loose cannon, but apart from him, I worry more about people in our own camp causing a fuss than I do about the DoJ.

And on top of all of this, if something so monumentally sport-crushing were envisaged by the Minister:

1. He wouldn't do it through a much-anticipated Bill, he'd do it through one of the other avenues that the CJA2006 provides him with;
2. If it was tried through a bill, he would raise the ire of every NGB who sits on the FCP because he'd be attacking their sports directly after telling them porkies, so he'd be scuppering the FCP; and
3. he'd be inducing the same degree of protest as we saw during the licence fee hike at a time when, lets face it, the government doesn't need any more hassle or protest pointed at it. He's a lot of things, but the Minister couldn't be that politically inept.

chem

Minister Ahern was at the funeral of the PSNI officer today so was not available for a meeting. I have been told I will get a call when he is free and at his clinic. Monday and Fridays.

Keep any questions coming;)

Sparks

From the IT thread btw chem:

Sparks wrote: »

Heard from a reliable-but-unidentifiable-on-here source about the 'letter': it's a reminder on a previous letter, which outlined to Superintendents that people seeking pistol licences should be informed of the Ministers statement in November, where he said that any pistol licence granted after his announcement will be revoked by retrospective legislation to be included in the Miscellaneous Provisions Bill.

milkerman wrote: »

I have this also from a friendly Garda source - a reminder was issued to each division stating that applicants were to be informed that licences granted post the Ministers statement would not be renewed.

jwshooter

paul1972 wrote: »

i have been told by someone official that the proposed changes to the firearms laws are far more sweeping than anybody thought possible and affect all branches of the sport...clay shooting and deer stalking ect,,,target shooting will be very hard hit the only form the minister for justice and the garda commisioner approve of is the olympic disiplines and all other forms will be so curtailed as to make them impossible to continue with ,,,even though there is no sound reason for doing this.......clay shooting will also suffer as clubs will be responsible for removing the spent lead shot from the land the club is situated on and a ban on the use of lead shot anywhere near waterways or lakes,,,deer stalking will be very restricted as stalking will only be available to those who can afford to lease land or clubs who will control deer for farmers under strict conditions as to calibers allowed and becoming a sport for the elite once again ,,,,,also they want to restrict the ammount of firearms you can hold to two with restrictive security conditions which include monitored alarms and even more expensive gun safes , semi auto rifles over .22 cal and semi auto shotguns will be out ,,, the person who said this feels it will pass in april due to the fact everybody thinks the proposed changes only involve pistols and revolvers and nobody is kicking up about it ,, nobody is sending e-mails to their local politicians or any of the ministers ,,,also the shooting bodies are keeping quite hoping their diciplines will be left alone but none will .... please say this cant be so....

your talking pure and utter crap .

the only thing going to be banned is practical pistol shooting and the licencing of pistols over .22
thanks to the practical pistol shooters pushing there unwanted sport on a government and police force that did want it in the first place

paul1972

hope your right

Dusty87

been told that its only pistol shooters myself from a few people. But theres so many rumours no one knows whats goin on.

paul1972

pistols today rifles tomorrow and maybe shotguns the next day as far as they are concerned a gun is a gun is a gun

jwshooter

paul1972 wrote: »

pistols today rifles tomorrow and maybe shotguns the next day as far as they are concerned a gun is a gun is a gun

its true the power that be would love a land free of illegal firearms this not going to happen for them so there justifying there pay packs by kicking up a storm over our firearms .
i think this always was going to happen they just wanted the right spark to lite the fire.
they are still sore over the brophy case , practical pistol shooting was the spark they were looking for .
too much too soon was the fraze that was used .
things will settle back down once the big bad glocks are seen to have gone and the minster and fachta murphy can hold hands on tv and say to the pubilc we done it we sorted the handgun issue out for once and for all.

hunting firearms are not a problem and never will be .

i for one would like to see stricter controls on who get firearms and for what .
we should have some sort of exam like sweden ,that every one getting a firearm will under stand its a privilege to own one and act accordingly.

Dusty87

paul1972 wrote: »

pistols today rifles tomorrow and maybe shotguns the next day as far as they are concerned a gun is a gun is a gun

Yea i know what your sayin, its a shame for honest people that have an interest in the sport.

Grizzly 45

thanks to the practical pistol shooters pushing there unwanted sport on a government and police force that did want it in the first place

HEY!!!Below the Belt that!!:mad:
We didnt "push"anything on the Govt or Gardai.They forced their paranoid ideas and agenda on us!!
Dont know what your problem is with practical pistol is JW,but you are <mistaken>!
Practical pistol had and has nothing to do with starting this off.It was the murder of Shane Greghan in Limerick that got Aherne sounding off in the Dail.THAT was the trigger.Despite a few other gangland shootings during the year that could have been used as well.But shoot a rugger player in Limerick!!Where rugger is worshiped and player sare demi gods???Too good an opportunity to miss!!Cynical,but true!
Aherne sounded off on this in May 2008 at the GRA convention where he expressed as did the GRA "concern" about the numbers of handguns being liscensed in Ireland. This festerd on thru the Summer,which wasnt helped by that prime time programme,and Ahernes and FG junmping on the gun ban bandwagon,there numerous statements about reducing the amounts of liscensed handguns in Ireland,which IMO was ignored totally by the shooting public and bodies in Ireland,when we could have done more to challange these statements.But as usual lost opportunities.
The reason that Practical pistol packed it in was [1] voulantary,as we had a gun to our head so to speak by the DOJ and Gardai.Where it was either close up and you the irish shooter MAYget to keep our pistols or keep going and Everyone loses their handguns!!THAT was our choices.. [2] Utter BS put out by by the DOJ That practical pistol ranges were training Bodygaurds,mercenaries and whatnot.[3] Sheer ignorance of what it involved and the fact it had nothing to do with defensive shooting.IOW we doan unnersan it,therefore it wont be allowed!

paul1972

i dont take part in practical pistol never have,but its not fair to blame it for all that,s happend if it was,nt practical pistol it woud have been something else the powers that be were looking for a stick to beat shooting sports as a whole with ..the garda lost almost every case brought before the courts and are very <upset> over it ..if the senior garda is dead set against shooting as a whole and has the goverments ear this is what happens ....this is a move against all shooting sports ..

paul1972

this is an e-mailsent to an ass load of politicans and ministers shortly after the murder of SHANE GEOGHEGAN in limerick NOT ONE OF THEM REPLIED
could you please read this out in the dail and ask the minister for justice what he has to say to itmost if not all of the gangland murders commited are related to drugs,and the control and supply of the drugstrade.
everyone who has bought and used illegal drugs has contributed to the latest murder that of MR GEOGHEGAN in
limerick and all the other innocent victims of gangland crime.its the money they spend on drugs that these gangs use
to buy guns , bullets and pay the scum who pull the triggers for them. the minister for justice has made remarks about a ban on
legally owned firearms {even though the gardai admit that the number of legally owned firearms used in crime is so low to be almost non existant and they have no figures on it as it would not justify the effort}, i wonder how that will affect the gangs as i didnt know that thier guns were legal and lisenced
because if they are not i cant see the ban having much affect on them ...is this just another goverment smokescreen,,,i think so ,,
why dont the goverment tackle the real root of the problem the demand for illegal drugs as its the demand that dictates the supply
and is fueling the murders and maddness the powers that be need to come down hard on drug users as they are the weak link and by removing the demand they can kill off this evil trade recreational drug users are just as guilty as the addicts maybe even more so as they view it as a game and have the money to play with ......you will never kill off this trade by targeting dealers only as the profits as so great others will always take their place
anybody caught with any ammount of drugs regardless of how small the ammount shold be named shamed and prosecuted
maybe the american system of THREE STRIKES and your jailed for life would be worth a try for dealers and addicts involved in crime to fund their habits
the money the minister for justice is going to waste on fixing this problem with legally held firearms a problem which does not exist could be much better spent ,,, they tell us there is no money for the vaccine for cervical cancer but there is money for the minister for justice to waste on this just so he can be seen to do something ....there are enough restrictions on legally held firearms

jwshooter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

HEY!!!Below the Belt that!!:mad:
We didnt "push"anything on the Govt or Gardai.They forced their paranoid ideas and agenda on us!!
Dont know what your problem is with practical pistol is JW,but you are <mistaken>!
Practical pistol had and has nothing to do with starting this off.It was the murder of Shane Greghan in Limerick that got Aherne sounding off in the Dail.THAT was the trigger.Despite a few other gangland shootings during the year that could have been used as well.But shoot a rugger player in Limerick!!Where rugger is worshiped and player sare demi gods???Too good an opportunity to miss!!Cynical,but true!
Aherne sounded off on this in May 2008 at the GRA convention where he expressed as did the GRA "concern" about the numbers of handguns being liscensed in Ireland. This festerd on thru the Summer,which wasnt helped by that prime time programme,and Ahernes and FG junmping on the gun ban bandwagon,there numerous statements about reducing the amounts of liscensed handguns in Ireland,which IMO was ignored totally by the shooting public and bodies in Ireland,when we could have done more to challange these statements.But as usual lost opportunities.
The reason that Practical pistol packed it in was [1] voulantary,as we had a gun to our head so to speak by the DOJ and Gardai.Where it was either close up and you the irish shooter MAYget to keep our pistols or keep going and Everyone loses their handguns!!THAT was our choices.. [2] Utter BS put out by by the DOJ That practical pistol ranges were training Bodygaurds,mercenaries and whatnot.[3] Sheer ignorance of what it involved and the fact it had nothing to do with defensive shooting.IOW we doan unnersan it,therefore it wont be allowed!

wake up and smell the coffee. 45 every shooting organization in the country have wash there hands of practical pistol shooting its the root of the hole problem .
shame on you to bring up shane greghans murder to justify whats going on ,it started long before that nite .
the hole sport has suffered at the hands of practical/combat style shooting .
these are the facts ,what ever about <statements> put out by the DOJ .

Rovi

jwshooter wrote: »

wake up and smell the coffee. 45 every shooting organization in the country have wash there hands of practical pistol shooting its the root of the hole problem .

Because it's currently politically prudent to do so, and they must all be seen by Big Brother to be singing from the Politically Correct hymnsheet.

As an IPSC enthusiast, it's a most educational spectacle.

jwshooter wrote: »

the hole sport has suffered at the hands of practical/combat style shooting .
these are the facts ,what ever about BS put out by the DOJ .

IPSC shooting has nothing to do with 'combat style' shooting, and anyone with any knowledge or expertise in real 'combat style' shooting would fall about the place laughing at the notion. I know, I've spoken to such people on the subject.

That is exactly the sort of woolly juxtaposition that was so effective in the campaign to demonise the sport out of existence here.

Grizzly 45

Well Sorreee if I <disagree with> your world view here jW
1] NAME HERE which shooting sports "washed their hands" of practical???
If you think that practical is the Whole problem,you are missing a good bit of the whole story.

If you READ my post CAREFULLY.You might see that I pointed out exactly when it started and the timeline.Which has been posted here on Boards.ie for the last year in various discussions.Do go and check if you dont belive.

They say cynicism is a nasty way of telling the truth.And I am telling the truth that Gregohans murder WAS used most cynically by this current minister,due to who was murderd and where.Why didnt he do this when numerous scumbags were offing each other in Limerick???Is it then being said off the record then that it it ok for criminals to kill each other,but once an innocent gets shot who is a local figure,we MUST ban handguns..
Well, that would be typical for double standards here in Ireland!!Criminal life isnt worth much,and moreso than a rugby player.:(:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Practical/Combat style shooting.BwHAHAHAHAHAHA! You havent a CLUE have you about this sport,do you??? Combat shooting has never happened here in Ireland apart from in the minds of the ignorant who never botherd to go to,see or inform themselves on the difference or what it was all about,or got their information from the internet,like certain people did in the DOJ,or you were in asubversive organisation.
As somone who has done practical pistol and "combat" shooting[whatever the Hell that is].I assume you meanself defence,bodygaurd training etc.I can tell you there is a World of difference between the two.you could not do things in combat shooting on a practical course as you would be disqualified instantly,or vice versa using practical techniques.

THOSE are the facts.Go away and read up abit on them!And dont think YOU are safe just because you shoot shotgun or rifle.Remember gun grabbers dont stop just cos one type of gun is gone..your rifle might be the next boogeyman.:rolleyes:

Sparks

I think english teachers all over the nation must be crying right about now.
Lads, can ye keep it civil and at least try for some punctuation and spelling?
And keep the politics out of the hunting or target shooting forums?

And ye might remember that feelings are exceptionally high on both sides of the for/against practical pistol divide, so have some empathy when posting? End of the day, we're all shooters and none of us is going to go away - there are enough lifetime grudges in this sport's politics as it stands to make Italian politics look Swiss. More aren't really needed. I have no doubt they'll show up anyway, but we could at least try not to create them deliberately...

jwshooter

bottom line 45 is practical pistol shooting is a thing of the past ,i have been at a few of the shoots and they were well managed and very safe . but thats not the problem is it .

macnas

jwshooter wrote: »

your talking pure and utter crap .

the only thing going to be banned is practical pistol shooting and the licencing of pistols over .22
thanks to the practical pistol shooters pushing there unwanted sport on a government and police force that did want it in the first place

For a guy who didn't seem to be a fan of a certain director of the NARGC, you certainly seem to be buying his <philosophical stance> now.

Also, if you're not going to think before you post here, the least you could do is proof read it.

jwshooter

macnas wrote: »

For a guy who didn't seem to be a fan of a certain director of the NARGC, you certainly seem to be buying his <philosophical stance> now.

Also, if you're not going to think before you post here, the least you could do is proof read it.

who i am a fan of is of little concern of yours .we will see now many will be practical pistol shooting this time next year .

i am in 3 of the bigger shooting organisations in ireland and none or them will justify the unjustifiable not my words.

Bananaman

jwshooter wrote: »

we will see now many will be practical pistol shooting this time next year .

i am in 3 of the bigger shooting organisations in ireland and none or them will justify the unjustifiable not my words.

Please state your reasons, specifically, or can it.

As Sparks would say - post it or it never happened.

B'Man

Grizzly 45

HeLLO!!News FLASH for all!
The IPSA went into "voulantary" liquidation by a majority members vote on Dec 2008,in Mullingar.
It formally ceased and wound up Dec31st 2008.[Proably to much relif of some people and organisations here:mad:.:]

IOW it is gone,finished,kaputt, andiamo, no more.It is an UN practiacl shooting sport organisation!!!.Practical shooting sports DO NOT EXIST in the ROI anymore!!! And WONT EXIST in the future either,specifically commented so on by the DOJ!
ANY shooting with any TYPE of firearm that involves dynamic movement[IE running walking briskly,hopping crawling,whatever],or any type of scenario or tactics with a loaded firearm,IS OUT!!The only place you could do it now is Northern Ireland.
So dont worry,the threat of the evil dynamic,practical shooter has been purged from the land of shooting Ireland! Ye can all rest safley in your beds knowing that with this menace gone you are all safe to continue the more acceptable traditional shooting sports.Until the Govt decides on another bugbear to remove from society.

Sikamick

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

HEY!!!Below the Belt that!!:mad:
We didnt "push"anything on the Govt or Gardai.They forced their paranoid ideas and agenda on us!!
Dont know what your problem is with practical pistol is JW,but you are <mistaken>!
Practical pistol had and has nothing to do with starting this off.It was the murder of Shane Greghan in Limerick that got Aherne sounding off in the Dail.THAT was the trigger.Despite a few other gangland shootings during the year that could have been used as well.But shoot a rugger player in Limerick!!Where rugger is worshiped and player sare demi gods???Too good an opportunity to miss!!Cynical,but true!
Aherne sounded off on this in May 2008 at the GRA convention where he expressed as did the GRA "concern" about the numbers of handguns being liscensed in Ireland. This festerd on thru the Summer,which wasnt helped by that prime time programme,and Ahernes and FG junmping on the gun ban bandwagon,there numerous statements about reducing the amounts of liscensed handguns in Ireland,which IMO was ignored totally by the shooting public and bodies in Ireland,when we could have done more to challange these statements.But as usual lost opportunities.
The reason that Practical pistol packed it in was [1] voulantary,as we had a gun to our head so to speak by the DOJ and Gardai.Where it was either close up and you the irish shooter MAYget to keep our pistols or keep going and Everyone loses their handguns!!THAT was our choices.. [2] Utter BS put out by by the DOJ That practical pistol ranges were training Bodygaurds,mercenaries and whatnot.[3] Sheer ignorance of what it involved and the fact it had nothing to do with defensive shooting.IOW we doan unnersan it,therefore it wont be allowed!

_________________________________________________________________


No Disrespect Grizzly and most certainly no disrespect to the IPSA people, those that kept to the rules of their sport. I have defended IPSA/IPSC's right to take part in their sport. They should have been supported by the people that sat in the seats of power in the sport, but they weren't.

But the truth has to be told, a small group of people that cared nothing for any of the people involved in their individual disciplines, is what brought about the demise of IPSA/IPSC here in Ireland.

For you to say that Bodyguard and Tactical training never took place is untrue, we lost our authorization over it, it was run by people that put profit before the sport and fellow sports men, people that would risk everything for their gain.


Michael O'Connor
Secretary to Dublin Target Sports Club
aka Sikamick

Blazher

Sikamick wrote: »

_________________________________________________________________


No Disrespect Grizzly and most certainly no disrespect to the IPSA people, those that kept to the rules of their sport. I have defended IPSA/IPSC's right to take part in their sport. They should have been supported by the people that sat in the seats of power in the sport, but they weren't.

But the truth has to be told, a small group of people that cared nothing for any of the people involved in their individual disciplines, is what brought about the demise of IPSA/IPSC here in Ireland.

For you to say that Bodyguard and Tactical training never took place is untrue, we lost our authorization over it, it was run by people that put profit before the sport and fellow sports men, people that would risk everything for their gain.


Michael O'Connor
Secretary to Dublin Target Sports Club
aka Sikamick

What sikamick has said is true.

I am not going to go in to it on a public board.


Also jwshooter please look into something and get the facts before you post and make a joke out of yourself, You couldn't be more wrong.

IPSC is a sport thats done all around the world, By every type of person.

Cooks/House mums/Dads/Kids/law enforcement personel/Doctors/Teachers the list gose on and on. But yet Ireland being stuck back in the dark ages and with norrow minded people like yourself. Who dont understand what the sport is and cant be arrsed! to look in to it so you want to ban it.

In any case. As its been said again and again, Anyone who dose not believe it they need to wake up,

PISTOLS TODAY EVERYTHING ELSE TOMORROW

jwshooter

the list goes on and on thats the problem is in it .

Blazher

jwshooter wrote: »

the list goes on and on thats the problem is in it .

For you to say that, Just shows how norrow minded you are.

I would also like to point out that, The same people you are talking about "who ever they may be -- Please tell us?? " Will still do what ever they want no matter if IPSC is here or not, (But it never will be here again any time soon, Thanks to some)

Anyways whats done is done, If we are to come out with anything after the Sh!tstorm clears we need to drop all the in house BS and back stabing.

The bigger picture also needs to be addressed not just what effects you (or the people at the time )

Its just from the EGM/AGMs i have been at over the last 6 months, One clear message i have got is, We will do what ever it takes to keep what we do, We will turn our backs, sacrifice whatever other sport in the process.

Be it rifle shooting, Hunting, Pistol shooting etc.

Because the DoJ have said they dont mind .22 being used in the state. Some people are happy enough to leave it at that. And not rockDboat just incase they change there minds and bann everything!


We need a united front.

Alot of good work has been done. But alot more could be done if some people play ball.



Main reason why i dont post much on the shooting boards anymore is because once the flood gates open its hard to close them again,


I am sure most of you wont agree, Most will try and bash what is said, But alot will understand what i am talking about.

This is nothing more then my own personal view on how our sport is being ruined,


People need to stop jumping on whatever Bandwaggoning of the week it is.

Read the facts and make your own minds up and remember its about the bigger picture here.

Rovi

Aside from the general points in the Shooting forum Charter regarding being civil and polite to each other, this might be an opportune time to gently remind everyone about the two sticky posts at the top of the forum, the ones personally posted by the Boards.ie Admins:
****Allegations against named individuals. READ THIS OR GET BANNED TOO*****
Misuse of this forum will cost any shooting association €950 per post.

Basically, be VERY careful not make any sort of allegation against any identifiable person, or to identify any such person either directly or indirectly; and, please be aware that associations/organisations are not in a position to respond officially here.


That's it, carry on and play nice,
Rovi.

civdef

There was at least one instance which received international publicity on the web of what appeared to be one "outfit" training for bodyguard stuff in the state using what appeared to be licensed firearms. Stuff like that fecked it up for the rest of us.