Fat loss plateau - Advice?

Zamboni

I've lost around 20lbs over the last 4 months but I am stuck at 16.5% bodyfat and 95Kgs bodyweight.
I am on around 1600 calories per day at the moment and I am at the point where I feel if I drop the calories I will slow my metabolism but if I up the calories I will put on weight.
I train 3-4 times a week.
Full body weights training, compound movements, rep range 6-8.
Not drinking either.

Any advice?
It pissing me off at this stage.
I reckon I need to lose another 5Kgs.

troubled1

Walk, walk, walk and keep walking. I recently lost 25lbs with weightwatchers and am very happy with the weight I am. Due to necessity I have to walk (and cycle) 10K a day and I am still losing weight despite eating almost anything I like (within reason). Also with the training you will be building muscle which can make you gain weight. Keep at it and well done with the loss so far its a big achievement

Zamboni

troubled1 wrote: »

Walk, walk, walk and keep walking. I recently lost 25lbs with weightwatchers and am very happy with the weight I am. Due to necessity I have to walk (and cycle) 10K a day and I am still losing weight despite eating almost anything I like (within reason). Also with the training you will be building muscle which can make you gain weight. Keep at it and well done with the loss so far its a big achievement

Thanks for the response but the weight training should not be building anything worth mentioning as I am on a calorie deficit.
On the calorie deficit the purpose of the weight training is to keep the muscle mass and drop body fat rather than a general weight loss.

I think my problem is more diet related.
I am going to up protein and water intake and reduce refined carbs.

Gaz

Check your diet , try and make all your carb sources wholegrain, perhaps even try low-carbing it for awhile.

Also you could try doing to HIIT cardio, that can be great for stubburn fat.

HoPpiE

What's HIIT cardio?

amazingemmet

You've already lost a decent bit of weight which is good but you've been dieting for 16 weeks which is a long time to diet. Personally I'd have a re-feed week get your calories up to about 2,500 a day but don't go mad on junk keep eating decent clean food then return to dieting the next week.

Theresalwaysone

amazingemmet wrote: »

You've already lost a decent bit of weight which is good but you've been dieting for 16 weeks which is a long time to diet. Personally I'd have a re-feed week get your calories up to about 2,500 a day but don't go mad on junk keep eating decent clean food then return to dieting the next week.

Emmet can you or someone explain the theory behind this to me? Its pretty interesting. Thanks.

aye

troubled1 wrote: »

Also with the training you will be building muscle which can make you gain weight. Keep at it and well done with the loss so far its a big achievement

Building Muscle may increase weight, but it will also increase metabolism and lower body fat percentage. Dont be worried about weight on the scales, body fat percentage is what to look at.

Gaz wrote: »

Also you could try doing to HIIT cardio, that can be great for stubburn fat.

Agreed.

HoPpiE wrote: »

What's HIIT cardio?

High Intensity Interval Training.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_training

an example is when running, doing a jog for one min, then a sprint for one minute and repeating this process.
Circuits and other classes are based on this principle.

it increases excess postexercise oxygen consumption (EPOC), which means the body need to use more energy after exercising to return to a normal state.
http://www.drlenkravitz.com/Articles/epoc.html

amazingemmet

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Emmet can you or someone explain the theory behind this to me? Its pretty interesting. Thanks.

With out getting into the hormonal reasons for it. Your body is basically always try to stay at what it thinks is homeostasis, ie unchanging from the way it sees life, ie the amount of training, food, rest, stress and other factors. When one of these things change the body will try to adapt ie if you keep getting pinned under a big weight regularly your body will either make you stonger via the nervous system or if you're suffering micro trauma in the muscles the body will try to over compensate for this by growing bigger muscles.

Now the body stores fat for basically the reason of stocking up on energy for times when energy (food) is scarce. Now if you think about dieting is a stress on the body you're deliberately starving the body to get it to release its fat stores, now when its releasing them and going out sides its comfort zone your body has basically two options one to release and keep energy expenditure high which happens for the first while, but if dieting goes on too long the body will slow metabolic processes down to try stretch its stores as long as possible. But this is where the re-feeds come in, if you have re-feed it will basically change the energy switches on your body and boost your metabolism and allow you to return back to a higher metabolic rate so when you return to dieting it will be more efficent

Theresalwaysone

amazingemmet wrote: »

With out getting into the hormonal reasons for it. Your body is basically always try to stay at what it thinks is homeostasis, ie unchanging from the way it sees life, ie the amount of training, food, rest, stress and other factors. When one of these things change the body will try to adapt ie if you keep getting pinned under a big weight regularly your body will either make you stonger via the nervous system or if you're suffering micro trauma in the muscles the body will try to over compensate for this by growing bigger muscles.

Now the body stores fat for basically the reason of stocking up on energy for times when energy (food) is scarce. Now if you think about dieting is a stress on the body you're deliberately starving the body to get it to release its fat stores, now when its releasing them and going out sides its comfort zone your body has basically two options one to release and keep energy expenditure high which happens for the first while, but if dieting goes on too long the body will slow metabolic processes down to try stretch its stores as long as possible. But this is where the re-feeds come in, if you have re-feed it will basically change the energy switches on your body and boost your metabolism and allow you to return back to a higher metabolic rate so when you return to dieting it will be more efficent

Cheers Emmet, makes sense. Same principle of keep increasing weight for your lifts I assume and then dropping the weight when you stall?

amazingemmet

Pretty much really

ScissorPaperRock

amazingemmet wrote: »

With out getting into the hormonal reasons for it. Your body is basically always try to stay at what it thinks is homeostasis, ie unchanging from the way it sees life, ie the amount of training, food, rest, stress and other factors. When one of these things change the body will try to adapt ie if you keep getting pinned under a big weight regularly your body will either make you stonger via the nervous system or if you're suffering micro trauma in the muscles the body will try to over compensate for this by growing bigger muscles.

Now the body stores fat for basically the reason of stocking up on energy for times when energy (food) is scarce. Now if you think about dieting is a stress on the body you're deliberately starving the body to get it to release its fat stores, now when its releasing them and going out sides its comfort zone your body has basically two options one to release and keep energy expenditure high which happens for the first while, but if dieting goes on too long the body will slow metabolic processes down to try stretch its stores as long as possible. But this is where the re-feeds come in, if you have re-feed it will basically change the energy switches on your body and boost your metabolism and allow you to return back to a higher metabolic rate so when you return to dieting it will be more efficent

Interesting stuff! Never knew this...

Nate--IRL--

amazingemmet wrote: »

With out getting into the hormonal reasons for it. Your body is basically always try to stay at what it thinks is homeostasis, ...........Snip.......

This is interesteing, could you provide a link or two for further reading?

Nate

shamblertine

amazingemmet wrote: »

With out getting into the hormonal reasons for it. Your body is basically always try to stay at what it thinks is homeostasis, ie unchanging from the way it sees life, ie the amount of training, food, rest, stress and other factors. When one of these things change the body will try to adapt ie if you keep getting pinned under a big weight regularly your body will either make you stonger via the nervous system or if you're suffering micro trauma in the muscles the body will try to over compensate for this by growing bigger muscles.

Now the body stores fat for basically the reason of stocking up on energy for times when energy (food) is scarce. Now if you think about dieting is a stress on the body you're deliberately starving the body to get it to release its fat stores, now when its releasing them and going out sides its comfort zone your body has basically two options one to release and keep energy expenditure high which happens for the first while, but if dieting goes on too long the body will slow metabolic processes down to try stretch its stores as long as possible. But this is where the re-feeds come in, if you have re-feed it will basically change the energy switches on your body and boost your metabolism and allow you to return back to a higher metabolic rate so when you return to dieting it will be more efficent

can the opposite be applied when a bulking plateau is reached, ie have a starvation week?

amazingemmet

shamblertine wrote: »

can the opposite be applied when a bulking plateau is reached, ie have a starvation week?

In theory yes, If you dropped significants calories and upped training volume and focused on more trauma causing techniques, extended sets, drop sets, rest pause etc for two weeks or so, In theory you'd get an up regulation in growth as your body will over compenstate. There's a techniue in high level athelte peaking cycles where they train their exercises looking for a 20% drop in performance then its dropped for a week to ten days then re-tested and it will generally yield a 2.5-5% increase on the max weight in that exercise.

celestial

Zamboni - lay out your complete diet and we might start to see some things you could clean up..

Zamboni

celestial wrote: »

Zamboni - lay out your complete diet and we might start to see some things you could clean up..

This is what I had last Friday. Typical day at the moment.
Bear with me as I've pulled this from spreadsheet

Breakfast
40grams Porridge, 2 Eggs
Lunch
3 Wholegrain Bread, 2 Slices of Ham , tomato, onion with butter (scrape)
Snack
Tin of Salmon
Dinner
2 Grilled chicken fillets with Broccoli, Carrots, Sweetcorn
Snack
Veggie Burger with 2 Slices Wholegrain Bread with mayo (scrape)

Also take a multivit each day.

This works out at around 1600 calories, 130g of protein.

I have provisionally planned to up my calories tomorrow to around the 2000 mark.
I'm actually bulling here today after getting on the scales again and still seeing no change.
Even thinking about taking a week off from the gym or something? I don't know.

amazingemmet

Your cals are too low for your weight imo, I know your trying to lose weight but its just too low. As an example at the moment my mother is dieting down on about1600-1800cals a day since x-mass and has been losing about a 1lb a week steady and has been eating the same as you, she's 57 and started 10kg lighter then you.

My advice would be drop the wheat products altogether replace with more veg and more meat, get your protein up to 200gms a day and get your fats higher, stick in 12gms of fish oil a day, some zinc and some magnesium before bed. Have a re-feed week then start dieting again.

hooplah

amazingemmet wrote: »

Your cals are too low for your weight imo, I know your trying to lose weight but its just too low. As an example at the moment my mother is dieting down on about1600-1800cals a day since x-mass and has been losing about a 1lb a week steady and has been eating the same as you, she's 57 and started 10kg lighter then you.

Hi Emmett, (or anyone else!)

Whats a good way to figure out a sustainable weight loss calorie intake? I'm currently 84 kg (down from 96 in November), am just over 6ft and eating about 2k calories per day. I'm doing some Muay Thai and trying the Starting Strength program (though I haven't been as consistant at this as I should be).

My weight loss has been noticable and I'm happy with it though I want to keep going to lose the belly. What I don't want to do is end up slowing my metabolism or finding that I don't eat enough to do the exercise i want to.

Zamboni

amazingemmet wrote: »

Have a re-feed week then start dieting again.

Cheers for reply.
I suppose I already knew this but needed to get over the psychological factor of thinking if I ate more, I'd gain weight.
Anyway, I'm going to up the cals as you suggest and keep trainiing as usual.
I'll chuck an update in a couple of weeks to see if it works out.

celestial

Zamboni wrote: »

Cheers for reply.
I suppose I already knew this but needed to get over the psychological factor of thinking if I ate more, I'd gain weight.
Anyway, I'm going to up the cals as you suggest and keep trainiing as usual.
I'll chuck an update in a couple of weeks to see if it works out.

Just out of interest and off topic, did you say you were a PT?

Don't forget you have made progress and 16.5% bf is pretty good - depends on your goals of course though - but don't be looking at the scales if you are weight training - how clothes fit and the mirror are your best guides.

Also what is your training routine like and do you eat any junk food? Personally I found that really cutting down on any junk and switching up my training flattened the belly nicely and started to bring out my abs.

Brian?

hooplah wrote: »

Hi Emmett, (or anyone else!)

Whats a good way to figure out a sustainable weight loss calorie intake? I'm currently 84 kg (down from 96 in November), am just over 6ft and eating about 2k calories per day. I'm doing some Muay Thai and trying the Starting Strength program (though I haven't been as consistant at this as I should be).

My weight loss has been noticable and I'm happy with it though I want to keep going to lose the belly. What I don't want to do is end up slowing my metabolism or finding that I don't eat enough to do the exercise i want to.

If you're doing Starting Strength its probably not a good idea to eat a calorie deficent diet, not getting enough calories will seriously hamper your strength gains and recovery time. Try eating a slight calorie surplus, but reduce carbs and replace those calories with good fats and protein. Try eating the majority of your carb intake PWO as well.

amazingemmet

hooplah wrote: »

Hi Emmett, (or anyone else!)

Whats a good way to figure out a sustainable weight loss calorie intake? I'm currently 84 kg (down from 96 in November), am just over 6ft and eating about 2k calories per day. I'm doing some Muay Thai and trying the Starting Strength program (though I haven't been as consistant at this as I should be).

Good work on getting from 96kg to 84kg

Personally I use the harris benedict formula but modify it by taking off body fat then only working it out for lean mass, Ie if you weight 100kg and are 20% fat then you use 80kg as your weight in the formula. Then I drop 500cals a day and keep it there til fat loss slows, I also add in some more activity in most peoples case this is slow pace cardio. Starting strength isn't a fat loss diet and shouldn't be treated as such, Beware just mashing things together and seeing if they work.

At the moment I'm dieting down for a photo shoot and have been taking in ~300gms protein, 42gms fat and 20-60gms carbs, high being work out days, been at it for ten days and have so far dropped 1% bodyfat. Dieting can be very simple if you can get into the routine of it.

Here's an online calculator, http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/

hooplah

Thanks for that, i think i need to sit down and work out some of the maths of this stuff. Cheers for the response!

Supercell

Dunno if this helps.
I recently came back from three weeks holidays in China.
I had no dairy or wheat or sweets and much less drink while there and ate all around me but only Chinese food (no bread,little sugar ) and basically loads of meat with full fat on it.
I lost 10lbs .
I had plateaued before leaving and was stunned to see that - I was eating pretty similarly to you which frankly is far too little, i bet your metabolism has slowed right down.
Lesson I took from it was change it up a bit and eat MORE but only good stuff and the weight loss will restart.

davyjose

Supercell wrote: »

Dunno if this helps.
I recently came back from three weeks holidays in China.
I had no dairy or wheat or sweets and much less drink while there and ate all around me but only Chinese food (no bread,little sugar ) and basically loads of meat with full fat on it.
I lost 10lbs .
I had plateaued before leaving and was stunned to see that - I was eating pretty similarly to you which frankly is far too little, i bet your metabolism has slowed right down.
Lesson I took from it was change it up a bit and eat MORE but only good stuff and the weight loss will restart.

I'd say if you were drinking booze and eating bread over here, then cutting that out alone would allow the weight to fall off. But it probably goes to show that, a) there's always a lot more you can do to lose weight, even if you think you're eating healthily, and b) in comparison to an eastern diet, the western diet is ... well, it's sh!t, isn't it?

Nate--IRL--

amazingemmet wrote: »

With out getting into the hormonal reasons for it. Your body is basically always try to stay at what it thinks is homeostasis...............

I know I've asked before, but would you be able to point me in the direction of more information on this, is there a particular biological term I should search for?

I've recently found my fat-loss on my present cut to be less than satisfactory, initially it was fantastic. I will be giving the process of a re-feed combined with vastly reduced cardio a try for a week or two. Then back to cutting, but i would like to read up on it first.

Nate