Is now the time to get rid of VRT?

Calibos

One of the main arguements as to why the government could not get rid of VRT was that it put so many billions in the government coffers.

Well seeing as a much smaller percentage of something is better than a much larger percentage of nothing, wouldn't it be an idea to slash VRT. It would kill the import problem, boost the motor trade and start bringing in some much needed revenue to the government. And when we come out of the recession they can bring in the Fuel levy to bring the revenue stream back up to the levels they were used to...but without the need for VRT. (Obviously they couldn't bring in the fuel levy now as it would drive more businesses to the wall)

I know the swapping to the fuel levy has been suggested for donkeys years but the equation still tipped in VRT's favour. ie From the governments POV they didn't care whether they got 2 billion from VRT or 2 billion from a fuel levy, but the effect on secondhand values if they removed VRT tipped the scales towards keeping VRT. Its a different equation now. SH values are tanking anyway and in the positive column you have saving the motor industry.

What say you?

woop

I hate the word coffers

DanGerMus

Wouldn't removing VRT completely cripple the secondhand market altogether? Then you could bring in cars from the UK for literaly half what they cost here?
One of us is deffinately missing something here!

-Chris-

I don't think scrapping VRT would save the motor industry, and it would definitely decimate used car values.
It would cripple private motorists and dealers alike (killing their used car values).

martydunf

Irish car dealers would be forced to match the price of the UK cars.

Cookie_Monster

As much as everyone hates it, as other have said getting rid of it now really just wouldn't work.

Perhaps tweaking it further to reduce VRT on smaller, more efficient cars may help generate sales and benefit the enviroment. Thus larger, dirtier cars will be VRT'd slightly higher.

-Chris-

martydunf wrote: »

Irish car dealers would be forced to match the price of the UK cars.

And what would that do to trade-in values of Irish cars?

ART6

AudiChris wrote: »

I don't think scrapping VRT would save the motor industry, and it would definitely decimate used car values.
It would cripple private motorists and dealers alike (killing their used car values).

Or phase it out over a period of, say, 5 years?

Biro

AudiChris wrote: »

And what would that do to trade-in values of Irish cars?

It wouldn't matter to the buyer. Lets say I have a 06 A4. I want to buy a 08 A4. I'm told by my Audi dealer that it'll cost me €12,000 to change, cause my car is worth €20,000 and the 08 is worth €32,000. That's fine. So lets say VRT is now gone. The 08 in the UK is worth €22,000. However, also my car is worth much less, so I now only can get €10,000 for mine cause that's what it's worth in the UK without VRT. The cost to change for me is still €12,000.
OK, it mightn't work out exactly like that, but more or less. You can't look at it in terms of "Oh, my car just lost 10 grand... where can I get that 10 grand back?" because how many people sell their car and just take the money and cycle? You always sell one to buy another. The other car is cheaper too.
It's like the houses. The Irish are idiots when it comes to these things. "My house is worth 50 grand more than when I bought it a year ago, aren't I the clever clogs!" was the old crap. Not realising that when they sold it and bought another the other also went up by a similar scale. Same with dropping house prices. The one you're about to buy fell too.
It's quite simple, VRT is putting car dealers on the dole.

furtzy

Biro wrote: »

It wouldn't matter to the buyer. Lets say I have a 06 A4. I want to buy a 08 A4. I'm told by my Audi dealer that it'll cost me €12,000 to change, cause my car is worth €20,000 and the 08 is worth €32,000. That's fine. So lets say VRT is now gone. The 08 in the UK is worth €22,000. However, also my car is worth much less, so I now only can get €10,000 for mine cause that's what it's worth in the UK without VRT. The cost to change for me is still €12,000.
OK, it mightn't work out exactly like that, but more or less. You can't look at it in terms of "Oh, my car just lost 10 grand... where can I get that 10 grand back?" because how many people sell their car and just take the money and cycle? You always sell one to buy another. The other car is cheaper too.
It's like the houses. The Irish are idiots when it comes to these things. "My house is worth 50 grand more than when I bought it a year ago, aren't I the clever clogs!" was the old crap. Not realising that when they sold it and bought another the other also went up by a similar scale. Same with dropping house prices. The one you're about to buy fell too.
It's quite simple, VRT is putting car dealers on the dole.

Sure but a lot (if not most) people finance their car so the lesser trade-in figure would not clear their outstanding finance so they couldn't deal

cnocbui

Of course VRT should be done away with. The EU should never have allowed it to exist in the first place. Calling it a 'registration' tax was always a con. It is an import tax, despite what the government chooses to call it. It acts in exactly the same way import duties do, so given the EU is supposed to be a 'common' market without artificial trade barriers it should never have existed, let alone there be a debate about getting rid of it.

robtri

I am opposed to VRT, but we cannot go ahead and scrap it in one foul swoop, it would destroy the motor industry here...
dealers would not be able to suffer this cost reduction and it wasn't there fault to begin with.... they didn't invent VRT...
over night their stock would loose vast amounts and they could not survive this....
Joe soap cars on finance would go into negative equity and as a result would not be able to trade up or in his car till his finance was finished paying off...

the only way VRT can be removed is in small increments over a long period of time,

VRT is wrong but needs to be handled very carefully if it is to be removed...

mickdw

A slight increase in VRT would be more beneficial to the car industry. Remember, the 2008 changes to vrt which resulted in huge cost cutting for most mainstream models started the problems for the car industry before recession even came into it. It created uncertainty over pricing which buyers holding off until they get the cheaper price.
If Vrt was to increase slightly from a date say 6 months from when decision was made, then at least everyone could be sure that the car they buy isnt going to be reduced. People will be happy to part with money thinking that they may even have a few months depreciation fee. Also, the used stock sitting on forecourts would be a little more valuable again and dealers should be able to shift them.
Used imports would still be a problem and the only solution there is to find a way to introduce an additional fee on registration to make them uncompetitive.

2 stroke

Am I missing something here? Ireland doesn't have a motor industry, just greedy car dealers.

Drummerboy08

2 stroke wrote: »

Am I missing something here? Ireland doesn't have a motor industry, just greedy car dealers.

Nice. :rolleyes:

It needs to be looked at for sure, whether that means reducing it or raising it i dont know. As far as i can see, nothing will improve things for the time being.

McSpud

While I may not like VRT we are stuck with it for the foreseeable future. Dropping it down would mean the revenue would have to be raised from some other source. At a time when every lobby group in the country is complaining about tax rises or cuts to services I can't it happening. As we import all our cars increased sales would only benefit our retail market as opposed to countries like the UK & Germany which manufacture cars.

Farls

I don't see getting rid of VRT as an answer to the motor trade here if anything it would be the final nail in the coffin :eek:. It could be rigged in a way to make it more appealing to 'buy irish' but I'm not sure of the implications of that.

As was discussed here in length before a lot of Irish would prefer to spend an extra few euro, with in reason that is, to buy a motor from an Irish dealer and keep the money in the country, the same applies to most things but where as UK prices keep dropping, Irish prices seem to be on the up!! This applies to customer service also.

Bandara

No. It isn't.

Farls

Hammertime wrote: »

No. It isn't.

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znv6i3h7kqf9ys

Biro is making the most sense here. Scrapping it would make everything relative. The only issue I can see would be the value current stock on the forecourts. I recently visited a dealer to look at an imported 320d (04) with no spec. He wanted 14K for it. I got a better one in England and inc travel and vrt it owed me 9500€. If the dealer offered that car for 10 - 10.5k I probably would have saved myself the hassle and bought from him. It's madness what dealers are charging here. I mean if they were making a fair margin on motors people would buy here. The thing is though, how can you argue with saving about 5k by going over to England. The 7 other lads I spoke to that were on the ferry back and all did the same thing agree. Maybe the SIMI should try and ban traffic from Autotrader UK and that might help them out.

Biro

It's true. I've thought about it a lot and it makes the most sense.
OK, so you own a dealership, you have a 14k beemer sitting there. If VRT is scrapped it's worth 10k. You took it as a trade in against a 20k car. So basically you're 6k out till that's sold. Chances are someone who buys it will trade in a car worth €5k, giving you €9k along with their own. You're still 5k out on the total deal until that 5k car is sold, which is probably the total profit of the 3 cars you've dealt with.
If VRT is scrapped before the above happens, you have the 14k car now for sale at 10k. Someone comes in with a 5k car that's now worth 3k, gives you €7k along with his for that, so now you need to shift the 3k car to complete the deal. Depending on the profit from each sale along the chain you don't just "loose" the €4k from the VRT going. And long term you may get to keep your dealership in business!
From the Governments point of view, all they're doing is looking at the revenue from VRT. They should be weighing up all the pros and cons that the whole thing costs or gains. Including the potential dole payouts to unemployed car sales people.

Owen

Biro wrote: »

Including the potential dole payouts to unemployed car sales people.

Car sales people? There are a lot more people affected by Dealership closure than sales people. Including cleaners, valetors, receptionists, mechanics, not to mention the outsourcing that Dealerships give to smaller contracters for paint repairs, leather repairs, etc.

If the Government do scrap VRT (And I've always wished they did), they would be in essence signing the death sentence on 50-75% of garages around the country who are finding it hard enough to keep the doors open at the moment by devaluing all their current stock. And they would place each and every finance customer in the country further into negative equity. "Oh but the Dealers have had it so good for so long, Stealers!" ... tell that to the 34 people who lost their jobs today in Limerick when Keogh's closed, not to mention all the other garages that have, or will close too.

The only way scrapping VRT could work is for the Government to equalise the losses which would be incurred by Individuals and by Dealerships - otherwise it's a silly move which will further wreck the economy. And I hate VRT as much as the next person.

Biro

ned78 wrote: »

Car sales people? There are a lot more people affected by Dealership closure than sales people. Including cleaners, valetors, receptionists, mechanics, not to mention the outsourcing that Dealerships give to smaller contracters for paint repairs, leather repairs, etc.

Yes, further reinforcing my point.

ned78 wrote: »

If the Government do scrap VRT (And I've always wished they did), they would be in essence signing the death sentence on 50-75% of garages around the country who are finding it hard enough to keep the doors open at the moment by devaluing all their current stock. And they would place each and every finance customer in the country further into negative equity. "Oh but the Dealers have had it so good for so long, Stealers!" ... tell that to the 34 people who lost their jobs today in Limerick when Keogh's closed, not to mention all the other garages that have, or will close too.

The only way scrapping VRT could work is for the Government to equalise the losses which would be incurred by Individuals and by Dealerships - otherwise it's a silly move which will further wreck the economy. And I hate VRT as much as the next person.

I disagree. Keogh's closed because people like me are buying where we can afford to buy. I never called them stealers, the fact is I can buy cheaper elsewhere. If there was no VRT Keoghs could compete very closely to UK prices, negating the need for me and hundreds of thousands like me to bother going over.
You can't run a country worrying about people who borrowed far too much money to buy a depreciating asset. Those people would just have to keep paying off the loan like they're doing now. It won't cost them any more.
The economy is wrecked already. Time to take drastic action before it disappears down the toilet and we're left wondering who pulled the chain.

McSpud

Biro wrote: »

You can't run a country worrying about people who borrowed far too much money to buy a depreciating asset. Those people would just have to keep paying off the loan like they're doing now. It won't cost them any more.
The economy is wrecked already. Time to take drastic action before it disappears down the toilet and we're left wondering who pulled the chain.

+ 1

Create the conditions for job creation. Jobs means more cars will be bought.

Tony Broke

McSpud wrote: »

Create the conditions for job creation. Jobs means more cars will be bought.

For the UK :pac:

Dealers are barely ( not in most cases ) matching the prices from the UK with VRT!

How the hell are they going to match it with VRT gone.You honestly think an Irish dealer would give me this 08 Lancer Evolution X for 25K?

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/920718.htm

They need to raise the VRT to make ous buy here, not get rid of it!

Biro

Tony Broke wrote: »

For the UK :pac:

Dealers are barely ( not in most cases ) matching the prices from the UK with VRT!

How the hell are they going to match it with VRT gone.You honestly think an Irish dealer would give me this 08 Lancer Evolution X for 25K?

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/920718.htm

They need to raise the VRT to make ous buy here, not get rid of it!

You're looking at it in a simplistic fashion. If the new car prices are the same as the UK then the used car prices should follow suit.

robtri

2 stroke wrote: »

Am I missing something here? Ireland doesn't have a motor industry, just greedy car dealers.

no different than every other business in the country....

Owen

Biro wrote: »

If the new car prices are the same as the UK then the used car prices should follow suit.

And if used prices tumble, people get into negative equity, and can't settle their outstanding finance agreements because their car is now worth 50% of what they owe, which will slow the buying process entirely - which then creates a chicken and egg scenario, where people can't afford to buy cars because their own are devalued, and Dealers have taken monumental hits on their stock (Again) in the hopes of getting deals in the door only to realise that people can't get new Finance arrangements.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

There are some valid points being made here in relation to stock and equity. But where will it end? Maybe the government could introduce a vrt refund scheme for current stock on the forecourts. This would give everybody a clean slate so we could start again. People have already lost equity in their cars with the introduction of the vrt based on c02. If you bought a 520d before June 08 its second hand value was more than the price of a new car the next year based on average historical depreciation. This means that some punters would loose out but not the dealers. Tough **** I'm afraid. My Brother bought an apartment 6 months ago that has fallen in value by 90k but he was happy paying the price at the time. Same goes for anybody who payed 60k for a car pre June 08. The bottom line is that if vrt is not scrapped people will still go to the UK to buy their cars and dealers here will go out of business.

Owen

Carson Fierce Memento wrote: »

The bottom line is that if vrt is not scrapped people will still go to the UK to buy their cars and dealers here will go out of business.

It's the weakened Sterling that's driving the flurry of sales to the UK. VRT has always been there, and it's only since Sterling collapsed that people are swimming for value. If Sterling recovers, the amount of imports will being to drop.

Having the Government refund VRT? They can barely afford to build schools and keep hospitals open without having out a billion or 2 to the Motor Trade. And don't forget Biffo's food bill!

Biro

ned78 wrote: »

And if used prices tumble, people get into negative equity, and can't settle their outstanding finance agreements because their car is now worth 50% of what they owe, which will slow the buying process entirely - which then creates a chicken and egg scenario, where people can't afford to buy cars because their own are devalued, and Dealers have taken monumental hits on their stock (Again) in the hopes of getting deals in the door only to realise that people can't get new Finance arrangements.

You're hung up on plebs who can't pay for something they shouldn't have borrowed so much for.
Just because your car is devalued how the hell can that all of a sudden cause you to not be able to pay back the repayments? It doesn't matter a crap what the car is worth, the repayments are what they were before your car devalued. If you owe so much on a car you can't afford a new one anyway. That's part of the whole problem to begin with. Tim Bigwilly finances 80% of his BMW, in a years time still owes 65% of the cost of it but adds another 30% to the loan in order to keep up with Tom McCocky who bought a "new reg" next door last week.

BlackWizard

A lot of people here are protecting the car industry and spin off industries at the cost of the consumer.

The same mentality could be applied to the building trade. We need to bail them out... :rolleyes:

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

Yes currency has a part to play but even when the pound was stronger it was still cheaper to go to the uk. In these times people will still try and save as much as they can, whether that is saving 5k or 1k. The government can also barley pay social welfare so keeping employment should be their main focus. As for Biffo's food bill well lets just say if it was cut in half it would make a significant saving in the upcoming budget and off the point did you ever wonder why obesity is a major focus point in every other western country in the world except Eire? Anything to do with Biffo or Mary Harney. (another discussion I know) Anyway scrap vrt.

Owen

Biro wrote: »

You're hung up on plebs who can't pay for something they shouldn't have borrowed so much for.

That's a bit harsh. No one had a crystal ball, and no one could see this coming. People borrowed what they could afford, and the economy changed. Hardly their fault!

furtzy

Biro wrote: »

You're hung up on plebs who can't pay for something they shouldn't have borrowed so much for.
Just because your car is devalued how the hell can that all of a sudden cause you to not be able to pay back the repayments? It doesn't matter a crap what the car is worth, the repayments are what they were before your car devalued. If you owe so much on a car you can't afford a new one anyway. That's part of the whole problem to begin with. Tim Bigwilly finances 80% of his BMW, in a years time still owes 65% of the cost of it but adds another 30% to the loan in order to keep up with Tom McCocky who bought a "new reg" next door last week.

Let me paint a picture here. Joe soap currently owes approx 10k now on his car which is worth around 10k. He is now in a poistion to trade. VRT disappears so now his car is worth 6k. He isn't in a position to trade so no sale for the dealer. He will instead carry on with his payments until what is owed matches what the car is worth which in most cases will mean until he pays off the finance completely.....simple really

Biro

ned78 wrote: »

That's a bit harsh. No one had a crystal ball, and no one could see this coming. People borrowed what they could afford, and the economy changed. Hardly their fault!

I saw this coming a year ago, and I'm only one of thousands who could see it coming. Millions on the other hand kept on borrowing. Maybe it's harsh, but you borrow beyond your means you're going to get stung. People borrowed what the banks would give them, which in terms of "affording" is what they were able to pay back instead of actually only being given a maximum percentage of a depreciating asset.
Everyone now agrees that the 100% mortgages were a bad idea. That was on an asset that rises and falls with the economy. However a car loan should never be anywhere near the cost of the car, as it's always going down in value. But that didn't stop them all borrowing to the hilt. They've no one to blame but themselves.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

here here

Owen

Biro wrote: »

I saw this coming a year ago, and I'm only one of thousands who could see it coming.

Aren't you great. So for the 'thousands' who could see it coming, we have an awful lot more people who have had houses repossessed, cars repossessed, and even for those who were frugal and only borrowed 20k for their car - those people have now been made redundant and can't afford the repayments anymore. Are those people stupid because they couldn't predict Dell pulling out, Amgen not setting up, etc? No, they're human and have been caught out through no fault of their own.

Tarring everyone with the one stupidity stick isn't really on. Not everyone's a genius, and not everyone saw this coming. Getting rid of VRT and plunging people further into debt is quite possible the most ridiculous statement I've heard in a long time.

Biro

furtzy wrote: »

Let me paint a picture here. Joe soap currently owes approx 10k now on his car which is worth around 10k. He is now in a poistion to trade. VRT disappears so now his car is worth 6k. He isn't in a position to trade so no sale for the dealer. He will instead carry on with his payments until what is owed matches what the car is worth which in most cases will mean until he pays off the finance completely.....simple really

If the country is full of people who owe 10 grand on 10 grand cars and 20 grand on 20 grand cars then we may as well bail out now cause we're in for the equivalent of a neuclear winter in economy terms.

pburns

ned78 wrote: »

That's a bit harsh. No one had a crystal ball, and no one could see this coming. People borrowed what they could afford, and the economy changed. Hardly their fault!

People borrowed what they could afford? Well I'm sorry but no they didn't!

They borrowed what the banks would lend them and what they could scrabble to pay back per-week/month on the 'never-never' (to use a quaint, old fashioned but - as it turns out - very apt term!)

I'm afraid the motor trade, like the construction industry, is over-inflated and the current contraction is unavoidable. Sad for those involved but abolishing the VRT revenue stream (such as it is atm!) can't be a consideration to sustain the unsustainable.

Owen

pburns wrote: »

People borrowed what they could afford? Well I'm sorry but no they didn't!

They borrowed what the banks would lend them and what they could scrabble to pay back per-week/month on the 'never-never' (to use a quaint, old fashioned but - as it turns out - very apt term!)

And your source for this is? That's a pretty wild generalisation there. This forum is so quick to go for pitchforks, isn't it?

It's so easy to be judgemental, and you should all be ashamed of yourselves. There are genuine people out there upsidedown on their finances because of the pay cuts, redundancies, Sterling devaluation, and VRT changes, and it's just so easy to blame them for their own stupidity, isn't it? Nice.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

Stupid is what stupid does. Should we bail out people with low iq for making bad decisions?

Biro

ned78 wrote: »

Aren't you great. So for the 'thousands' who could see it coming, we have an awful lot more people who have had houses repossessed, cars repossessed, and even for those who were frugal and only borrowed 20k for their car - those people have now been made redundant and can't afford the repayments anymore. Are those people stupid because they couldn't predict Dell pulling out, Amgen not setting up, etc? No, they're human and have been caught out through no fault of their own.

Tarring everyone with the one stupidity stick isn't really on. Not everyone's a genius, and not everyone saw this coming. Getting rid of VRT and plunging people further into debt is quite possible the most ridiculous statement I've heard in a long time.

There you are sitting up on your high horse criticising me and slagging me off. Well done you.
Unfortunately the writing was on the wall for Dell a few years ago when they turned the first sod for the Polish plant. Anyone who proceeded to borrow 20 grand to buy a car should have known better. It doesn't take a genious. 20 grand is a lot of money. In your opinion it isn't a lot to borrow for a car, and what I'm saying is that's part of the problem. We've become a society who thinks that borrowing lots of money is the norm. I've borrowed money for a car before, a few years back. I don't like oweing money on a depreciating asset, so I didn't do it the last time I bought. But at no stage did I ever owe more than half of the car's value to the bank. My thinking was that if I loose my job, I need to sell the car quickly, which means selling it at far below the market value, and pay off the loan hopefully having a grand or two to buy something to get me from A to B till I'm back on my feet again. That's not being a wise ass or a genious or whatever tag you'd like to put on me, that's being responsible and realising that NOTHING is certain in this world.
You're there on the other thread saying how much of a disaster it is that Pat Keogh is gone along with 45 jobs, and over here criticising me for suggesting some action. What do you suggest? The easy option of getting the Government to write a big cheque to all the dealers to help them?
Let me ask you this. So far as I know you work in a BMW dealership. Last year €7,000 was slashed off the price of a 520d because of a VRT reduction. Was it a complete disaster that all your used 520d's on the forecourt were now devalued and you had lost millions and are now gone into liquidation? My bet is no, it wasn't. Because I've seen local BMW dealerships selling more new 520d's than ever before, and offering people less money for their trade-in's to match the percentage that their current cars were about to loose in the upcoming changes in July 08. But that was OK, cause the cost to change was the same or better than before.
Why, then, are you so hell bent on the idea that if something similar was done that I'm an idiot for suggesting it and this time it'll be different? Keoghs are gone cause people are buying BMW's in England. If VRT were gone they'd be buying them off him. Which do you think is better?

furtzy

Biro wrote: »

If the country is full of people who owe 10 grand on 10 grand cars and 20 grand on 20 grand cars then we may as well bail out now cause we're in for the equivalent of a neuclear winter in economy terms.

yes we are and as i pointed out in my earlier post getting rid of VRT will only make it worse

Biro

ned78 wrote: »

And your source for this is? That's a pretty wild generalisation there. This forum is so quick to go for pitchforks, isn't it?

It's so easy to be judgemental, and you should all be ashamed of yourselves. There are genuine people out there upsidedown on their finances because of the pay cuts, redundancies, Sterling devaluation, and VRT changes, and it's just so easy to blame them for their own stupidity, isn't it? Nice.

Says you, judging me and saying I'm an idiot. I'm also a victim of redundancies, pay cuts, etc, but thankfully I own my car, which isn't a car that I'd love to have, but I can't afford one because I won't borrow beyond my means for one. My means aren't what the bank tells me they are, they're what I can deal with should things go pear shaped on me.

Owen

Biro wrote: »

Says you, judging me and saying I'm an idiot. I'm also a victim of redundancies, pay cuts, etc, but thankfully I own my car, which isn't a car that I'd love to have, but I can't afford one because I won't borrow beyond my means for one. My means aren't what the bank tells me they are, they're what I can deal with should things go pear shaped on me.

I am judging you (I didn't call you an idiot), of course I am, for making generalisations about the finances of others which you can't possibly know anything about.

You're in a great financial position, others aren't. It's that simple, and getting rid of VRT will plunge the people not as lucky as you into further turmoil.

Biro

ned78 wrote: »

I am judging you (I didn't call you an idiot), of course I am, for making generalisations about the finances of others which you can't possibly know anything about.

You're in a great financial position, others aren't. It's that simple, and getting rid of VRT will plunge the people not as lucky as you into further turmoil.

I'm not in a great financial position, I'm in a crap one.
If VRT were abolished my car would devalue like every one elses. If I owed money on it then I'd still owe money on it. I just keep paying my car loan like I was before.
More people are going to loose their jobs if VRT doesn't go, it's as simple as that.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

Lads let not get personal. I've made my views clear and I agree with Biro. For the rest of you.... here is an idea..... well sure lets not scrap vrt and keep going the way we are going, Sure they way things are are fine and we should keep on that line.... Look its obvious that some action needs to be taken. If that means people will be caught out with finance . tough sh1t. They were happy paying that price at the time end of...
Going forward the playing field needs to be leveled with the rest of the EU in order for the Irish motor industry to survive... same for any industry competing in Europe. VRT blocks this competition.

Owen

Biro wrote: »

I'm not in a great financial position, I'm in a crap one.
If VRT were abolished my car would devalue like every one elses. If I owed money on it then I'd still owe money on it.

Which suits you. Take then for example, a guy who has a car which can take 2 baby seats in the back, and his wife gets pregnant and he suddenly needs a car with 3 seats. What does he do? Or the guy who's always had a sports car, gets a sports injury and can't have a car so low to the ground, what does he do? People don't just change cars for fashion, some people change for necessity.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

ned78 wrote: »

Which suits you. Take then for example, a guy who has a car which can take 2 baby seats in the back, and his wife gets pregnant and he suddenly needs a car with 3 seats. What does he do? Or the guy who's always had a sports car, gets a sports injury and can't have a car so low to the ground, what does he do?

Boo Feckin Hoo

Biro

ned78 wrote: »

Which suits you. Take then for example, a guy who has a car which can take 2 baby seats in the back, and his wife gets pregnant and he suddenly needs a car with 3 seats. What does he do? Or the guy who's always had a sports car, gets a sports injury and can't have a car so low to the ground, what does he do? People don't just change cars for fashion, some people change for necessity.

The guy who has 2 baby seats and now needs 3 goes and buys one. The guy with the sports car and now needs a high car goes and buys one. If they have no job then they're screwed anyway, no matter what happens to VRT. If they have a job then their current cars devalue at a similar rate to the cars they now need to buy, therefore it's the same cost to them to change. You still fail to see that.
If they're out of a job then they're screwed unfortunately. But VRT won't help nor hinder them, as they'll have no money for a new car no matter what happens.