squat/deadlift/bench and recovery advice

rocky

1.88m, just under 100kg, 31 years old male, ~25%bf (Argos scale)

I want to lose fat, keep or increase muscle (don't we all)

I lifted on and off for 4-5 years previously but felt I wasn't progressing and quit for about 4-5 months last year.

I started going to the gym again this year and I did a month of 3x5 for bench, squat and 1x5 of deadlift.

I feel I'm very weak for my height/weight, and trying to get stronger.

What I normally did for the last month:
Squats 3x5, I got to 60 kg (20kg each side + bar) once (one workout of 3x5), now I seem to not be able to do more than 50kg (is the thinner squat bar 20kg or lighter?)
Bench 3x5x60kg.
Deadlift 2x5x70kg - I felt 1x5 was too little, then I couldn't walk properly for a week. Speaking of deads, I'm ashamed when I watch Malteaser's and g'em's videos ( I'm using that shame for motivation )- although I think deads are easiest for me to improve on - last year I lifted 2x4x90kg - should be back up there in no time. Of course I also watch Hanley and Kev but you guys are on a different level altogether.

I know I should have a much higher squat/deadlift when compared to bench, but my legs are not recovering properly between workouts, I may need up to 1 week - is this normal? My legs feel tired all the time - i.e. even without doing much exercise - could be from the weight I have to carry around? my own that is - that's why I want to lose fat, I'm thinking my legs would recover quicker then. Just by looking at me you may say that my hands are underdeveloped compared to my legs, but the weights tell a different story

I switched from the full body workout to a split - it's not very definite, just what I feel like doing on the day, more related to the compound exercise than to body parts. Again, because my legs need more to recover than my upper body. So this could be: Day1 - squats, day2 - bench, day3 - deadlift, with pullups every workout (1x3-5)

The problem is that I love doing deads and squats, not so much bench (I only gave bench a try after a few years - and only because everybody else was doing it). It's not that I neglected my lower body, au contraire - it's just the recovery problem mentioned earlier. Probably I just need to give my legs more days between workouts.

My questions would be:
- anything specific I can do to recover legs?
- advice on increasing squat? I like doing atg squats, or just find that stopping right below parallel is much harder.
- front squats - I don't have the arm flexibility yet for the grip, I'm doing the crossover 'grip' - are there specific exercises to improve in this area?
- sleep? - is less than I would like, about 7 hours/night, trying on that one with melatonin capsules.
- breakfast: what would be best to choose between: porridge(milk/water) + honey, fruit/brown/cheese scone+jam, sandwitch (chicken/tuna salad) on brown bread - I'm worried about this bread, doesn't look very healthy to me.
- diet coke: I drink about 4 cans a day, no calories but I should quit all the same.
- should I avoid carbs as much as possible? Where can I get my dietary fibre from? - I like my frosted wheats on weekend mornings.
- is the 25% bf too high to go on a bulking period? probably yes . Plus I want to see if I can lose some fat, otherwise what's the point, right?
- there may be a point in starting a log on this site, maybe I'll do that next week ...

I guess I'm aware of most things I should do, but I need some advice.

Thanks for any thoughts you may have.

kevpants

Nice post!

Good to see someone put a bit of thought into it instead of the standard issue "Make me hoooooge!" threads.

I think your recovery problem throws up an issue that doesn't get mentioned here too often. Working the whole body every session throws up some serious recovery problems if your weights even approach heavy.

I'm of the opinion that very heavy singles and doubles are the right way to go for people at your level. The kind of approach I was taking in the first half of my log. The 5x5 crowd swear by their approach but I get the feeling it becomes more effective the heavier you can lift I feel the weights are just a bit too light for novices and the volume suffers. There just isn't enough weight on the bar to get strong. Controversial maybe but it's just my opinion.

Maybe have a look at Joe de Franco's template for Westside for Skinny Ba5tards (WS4SB).

From a recovery perspective it works because you never squat and deadlift in the same week, I used to take 3 weeks of heavy squatting cycled with 3 weeks of heavy deadlifting. Plus you only do one heavy lower body day a week.

I suppose the reason I recommend it is because I think you should get to grips with the heaviest weights you can at your level. People get caught up in the 8-12 rep range for size gains etc which is grand when you're doing big weights for those rep ranges. I believe if the weight you're repping is too small you'll struggle to get truly strong and as a result, big.

kevpants

Oh and on the diet questions. My diet sucks. I just make sure to get 200g of protein a day. I don't pay much attention to it. Don't need to. I'm trying to lose a bit off the old power-belly at the moment so I'm just not eating sweets and crap. It's not that much of a big deal. I'm sure there'll be the usual picking apart of your diet...meh.

rocky

Hi Kevin, sorry for the late reply, I finally got around to creating my own fitness log:

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055576971

I think I need to do a bit of fine tuning of the diet, today I ate < 1500 calories!! :eek: will see tomorrow on the scale if it paid off - I'm probably a bit overeager checking progress every day...

Thanks for all the excellent advice

Pugsley

Wouldn't bother weighing yourself every day, once a week tops, and always at the same time of day (ie: in the morning before breakfast or before bed), otherwise your weight will vary hugely from day to day, weight goes up and down a good few kilo's each day.

On the worout front, doing primarily composite lifts is a good start, but your weights seem quite low for a guy of your size. I'm similar, at some point between 90 and 100kg but a bit shorter at 1.83m, haven't weighed myself in months no idea on bodyfat mind, haven't measured, use the mirror. Within a month of weight training I was squatting 80kg, Benching 60kg and 100kg deadlift.

Are you sure your form is right on your lifts and that your really pushing yourself? From your progress when you were training, one or the other (probably a combination of both) was lacking. It can be helpful having a friend of a similar level of strength to train with to add a little competition to help with pushing yourself (but don't get tempted to use bad form!). Got me off my deadlift plateau, I was stuck at 120kg for months, got it up to 140kg a month after training with a friend.

However if your looing for strength gains, you will be seriously hampered by your calorie intake, 1500 calories for 100kg bloke? Way too low for any sort of strength gain, and most probably a large factor in your recovery problem. I'd say it's even too low for sustainable weight loss, you should be at about 3000 calories maintenance, drop 1000 calories to lose 2lb per week leaves you at 2000 calories you should aim for (fairly general approximation on the info given).

Recovery could also be because your just back into it, over easter I took a 3 week break, after coming back to a heavy squat session, couldn't walk right for 2 days, but after my body got back into the swing of things the DOMs was fine the day after a session, could feel it but it wasn't painful.

Hanley

This is a weird one.....

25% bodyfat on those scales isn't massively high. I get a reading of anywhere between 30-40% (seriously) but my calipers put me under 18%. Without actually seeing you there's no way to know tho!

If you're regularly eating < 1,500 kcals per day it's not surprising that you're recovery is pants. 1,500's waaay too low for someone of your weight anyway.

I've always found the best thing I can do to improve the recovery in my legs is to squat more often. 3-4x a week at times. You don't have to use max loads every day either but working in the 75-85% range for multiple sets of 3-5 reps for 3-4 weeks will do wonders for you recouperative abilities.

Also, depedning on whether you're doing high rep supplemental leg work you mgiht be extending the time it takes to recover. I can squat a single set of 5-10 reps and push as hard as humanly possible and still be relatively well recoverd 2-4 days later, but if I do 5x10 with even 50-60% afterwards I'm shagged for the week!

rocky

Yea, I weigh myself every morning, even if I continue doing that out of habit, will consider the weight only once a week.

On my numbers... yep, I think they are pretty low too, and think I'm pushing really hard (as hard as I can squat without a spotter). On this and Hanleys point about fat %, I'll post some pics in my log, or maybe here too?

ok, cover your eyes :pac:














you have been warned...













1500 calories: I fear I may be underestimating them, when I eat at home I can weigh the food (want to do it for a week or so to get an idea), but I'm only guesstimating the quantities at work...

On the recovery side, after reading Kevin's post, I gave up diet coke and sugar (deserts) for about 2 weeks, and I could not get DOMS. I was only doing weights then, no HIIT, I was surprised, to say the least. Since then, I started back on the diet coke (max 2 a day), but will give it up and see if that makes any difference. I'm not doing much supplemental leg work, except HIIT...

At the moment I'm not necessarily looking to improve strength, as long as I can maintain it and lose weight I'm happy. I'm taking the 25% as a directional number only, if it goes down, that's good. Looking at the above pictures, would you not lose some fat? :eek:

I think my form is ok, but will try and post some videos to check it - because I squat very low, there may be some butt winking action going on, but I'm not sure if this will stop my progress? And I don't really want to drop the weights on a failed squat, it's not that kind of a gym...

Pugsley

Aren't there any safety bars in your gym? A power rack is perfect for it, set up the side bars for a fail thats comfortable, I always do a failed rep with just the bar when setting up to make sure it's all at the right height. Tend to push harder when you know you can fail safely.

d'Oracle

Pugsley wrote: »

Aren't there any safety bars in your gym? A power rack is perfect for it, set up the side bars for a fail thats comfortable, I always do a failed rep with just the bar when setting up to make sure it's all at the right height. Tend to push harder when you know you can fail safely.

Thats a good idea....

What sort of height would you use in relation to your body?

Edit: wait, there is something in SS about this isnt there?

rocky

I'm in the Kingfisher Galway, they have a squat rack, not a power cage, in saying that, there are some holes that may be used for safety bars - but didn't see any.

rocky

I posted a few videos in my fitness log http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60510633&postcount=8 , would appreciate any feedback on squat/deadlift form

d'Oracle

What do you mean by "more comfortable" in the narrow squat?

Is it a stability thing or the stretch on the groin?

rocky

In the wide stance, I'm feeling a strain on the exterior of the quads, the narrow stance just feels natural.