Draft deal reached at Dublin Bus

the boss of me

Draft deal reached at Dublin Bus:

Tuesday, 10 March 2009 17:41
Dublin Bus management and unions have reached draft agreement on arrangements to avoid 160 recently recruited drivers losing their jobs.

If the deal is accepted by drivers, it will avert the threat of industrial action at the company.

Under the proposed deal, which will be finalised on Thursday, the company will proceed with its plan to withdraw 120 buses from its fleet.

However, instead of the recent recruits being made redundant, 80 senior drivers will be offered voluntary redundancy.

The 160 probationary drivers will then form part of a group of staff who will operate a four day week over Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday.

They will receive a premium payment for Sunday work and will consequently not require a social welfare top-up to their pay.

The new arrangements will meet Dublin Bus's objective of reducing overtime which has to be cut because its cost and laws banning drivers from working more than 48 hours a week.

The deal also includes a number of work practice reforms.

It is expected that the package will be put out to ballot among drivers in SIPTU and the National Bus and Rail Union.

However, as yet it is not known if the unions will recommend the proposals to their members.

It also unknown if the proposals will be accepted by drivers, many of whom depend on extensive overtime to boost their incomes.

ardmacha

Good to hear of progress.

It also unknown if the proposals will be accepted by drivers, many of whom depend on extensive overtime to boost their incomes.

In the present environment there would be zero support, even among trade unionists, for drivers seeking to make others redundant so that they could have more overtime.

Cool Mo D

Hopefully this is accepted. Early retirement and no strikes is about a million times better than redundancies and strikes. Reducing overtime seems like a sensible thing to do anyway.

paulm17781

This does sound good I hope it is accepted.

I'm a bit annoyed to see 120 buses being withdrawn, is this likely to result in the overhaul of routes Dublin bus needs or are the commuting public just going to suffer as a result?

rx8

Looks like we've been sold down the swanney by the unions again, just like that muppet Bunting did the last time......No strings he said, just a rope around our necks.
Time will tell....:rolleyes:

paulm17781

rx8 wrote: »

Looks like we've been sold down the swanney by the unions again, just like that muppet Bunting did the last time......No strings he said, just a rope around our necks.
Time will tell....:rolleyes:

How exactly? It was surely this or the previous arrangement. Is this not the lesser of two evils?

shltter

rx8 wrote: »

Looks like we've been sold down the swanney by the unions again, just like that muppet Bunting did the last time......No strings he said, just a rope around our necks.
Time will tell....:rolleyes:

rx8 the members still have to be balloted

I have read the proposed deal and I think the unions will have a hard job getting it accepted.

shltter

ardmacha wrote: »

Good to hear of progress.



In the present environment there would be zero support, even among trade unionists, for drivers seeking to make others redundant so that they could have more overtime.

It is not as simple as that.

Main areas

Reduction in shift pay for split shift drivers

Travelling time removed

Route Blocks removes ( that is where drivers are marked in on one route)

Changes in rotas

Voluntary redundancies terms are very limited and substandard to that offered to other grades the offer is statutory + 1 week

Compensation for moving depot reduced to €1000 up to a maximum of €2000


Payment for late break reduced by 66%


Euro bogey agreement scrapped



Pay Pause

Cleopatra12

Am pleased to see an agreement has been reached. so basically....

All current bogie staff will keep their 1/6 shift premium. if there are any senior drivers who take vol sev and are bogie men, the people who will then be marked in as a bogie will also keep their one sixth shift premium. the only reduction in shift premium will occur in future marking ins where those marked in to bogie status will then recieve a 1/12 shift premium as long as the varying starting times in thier blocks is kept under 3 hours. if it goes over this, then the retain their original shift premium.

If the 80 senior staff take vol severence (they have to be over 63 years of age) the first 80 drivers of the 160 to be let go will stay on a 5 day week which means that the remaining 80 drivers will move to a 4 day week with the equivilant of 5 days pay (Sunday premium). They will work 2 sorts of rota, but will have to work every weekend. Into the future as there is natural wastage these driver will then move back to a five day week as the vacancies arise. this may result in more monday and tuesday rest day work becoming available.

Drivers on a 6 week block resting every sunday will now work 2 sundays in 6.

Euro driver who are losing their Euro car will be put on a spare Euro panel and will accordinly be marked in as duties open up.

You are right Shlter, compensation payments are being affected.

I personally think this agreement is the lesser of 2 evils. Fair play to both sides for trash ing it out. Hopefully it will be passed for the sake of the 160 lads and it saves on a lot of pain for bogie staff who were possibly going to lose both shift and spreadover.

shltter

Cleopatra12 wrote: »

Am pleased to see an agreement has been reached. so basically....

All current bogie staff will keep their 1/6 shift premium. if there are any senior drivers who take vol sev and are bogie men, the people who will then be marked in as a bogie will also keep their one sixth shift premium. the only reduction in shift premium will occur in future marking ins where those marked in to bogie status will then recieve a 1/12 shift premium as long as the varying starting times in thier blocks is kept under 3 hours. if it goes over this, then the retain their original shift premium.

If the 80 senior staff take vol severence (they have to be over 63 years of age) the first 80 drivers of the 160 to be let go will stay on a 5 day week which means that the remaining 80 drivers will move to a 4 day week with the equivilant of 5 days pay (Sunday premium). They will work 2 sorts of rota, but will have to work every weekend. Into the future as there is natural wastage these driver will then move back to a five day week as the vacancies arise. this may result in more monday and tuesday rest day work becoming available.

Drivers on a 6 week block resting every sunday will now work 2 sundays in 6.

Euro driver who are losing their Euro car will be put on a spare Euro panel and will accordinly be marked in as duties open up.

You are right Shlter, compensation payments are being affected.

I personally think this agreement is the lesser of 2 evils. Fair play to both sides for trash ing it out. Hopefully it will be passed for the sake of the 160 lads and it saves on a lot of pain for bogie staff who were possibly going to lose both shift and spreadover.

You skipped a lot of stuff there Cleo but not surprising given your recent postings

For example the company have advertised for a consultant to overhaul the network that will mean a lot of scrapped routes and almalgamated routes and drivers moving Depot the offer of €1000 with €100 for every years service over 10 upto a maximum of €2000 is derisory given the upheaval of moving depots.

The Euro bogey agreement is scrapped

Bogies from now on will only receive half rate shift pay

Travelling time is gone for 20 to 30 duties per garage

late breaking is reduced to 20 minutes

The company can now mix 2 different routes on the same bill

The 80 drivers will work lates every weekend Friday Saturday Sunday and Monday


And interestingly the company have offered no explanation of why they need so many spare drivers on late sundays about 170 late spare drivers each sunday

Cleopatra12

shltter wrote: »

You skipped a lot of stuff there Cleo but not surprising given your recent postings



Bogies from now on will only receive half rate shift pay

The 80 drivers will work lates every weekend Friday Saturday Sunday and Monday


Give up with the personal attacks... I have not 'skipped' anything... i gave the information i was privy to today. You are wrong about the bogies only gettin half rate shift. Read my previous post properly and you will see that in marking ins in the FUTURE (not the ones as a result of vol sev) drivers whose start times are within 3 hours of each other get 1/12 shift pay. ALL CURRENT bogie staff keep thier shift as it is....

The 80 most junior drivers will have 2 rotas... not one as you imply.

Question for you.. Do you ever have anything positive to say?

Cleopatra12

oh and isn't it better that compensation payments are still in tact (even in a new format) as opposed to scrapping them altogether!

shltter

Cleopatra12 wrote: »

shltter wrote: »

You skipped a lot of stuff there Cleo but not surprising given your recent postings



Bogies from now on will only receive half rate shift pay

The 80 drivers will work lates every weekend Friday Saturday Sunday and Monday


Give up with the personal attacks... I have not 'skipped' anything... i gave the information i was privy to today. You are wrong about the bogies only gettin half rate shift. Read my previous post properly and you will see that in marking ins in the FUTURE (not the ones as a result of vol sev) drivers whose start times are within 3 hours of each other get 1/12 shift pay. ALL CURRENT bogie staff keep thier shift as it is....

The 80 most junior drivers will have 2 rotas... not one as you imply.

Question for you.. Do you ever have anything positive to say?

There is nothing positive in that document.

and i have a copy of the document and it clearly states the 80 drivers will work lates

These drivers will be employed on late shifts Friday to Monday

There are actually 3 proposals for the bogey duties

They all go on half rate
The current drivers hold there shift new get half
they all hold full shift

depending on which one is chosen either the Attendance bonus scheme is scrapped for 2 year
the Attendance and Safe driving bonus is scrapped for 2 years
or both are scrapped for good

As for the 3 hour thing it is nonsense there are very few bogeys that would fall into that and any that do will be removed as new bills are done

shltter

Cleopatra12 wrote: »

oh and isn't it better that compensation payments are still in tact (even in a new format) as opposed to scrapping them altogether!

No it would be better to have a reasonable compensation that reflects the disruption to peoples lives

L1011

shltter wrote: »

No it would be better to have a reasonable compensation that reflects the disruption to peoples lives

Compensation which is basically non-existant in the private sector...

MiniD

shltter wrote: »

For example the company have advertised for a consultant to overhaul the network that will mean a lot of scrapped routes and almalgamated routes and drivers moving Depot the offer of €1000 with €100 for every years service over 10 upto a maximum of €2000 is derisory given the upheaval of moving depots.

Why would a driver need compensation to transfer to another bus depot? This was one thing which stood out in the Deloitte report. In the past 4 years, €2.5m has been paid to drivers in disturbance payments. Personally, I find that disgraceful.

My employer is relocating later this year and I will have to move to a different part of Dublin. Not one employee is looking for compensation. I'm baffled why a bus driver moving from eg. Clontarf to Summerhill depot needs compensation of up to €2000?

Ste.phen

MiniD wrote: »

Why would a driver need compensation to transfer to another bus depot? This was one thing which stood out in the Deloitte report. In the past 4 years, €2.5m has been paid to drivers in disturbance payments. Personally, I find that disgraceful.

My employer is relocating later this year and I will have to move to a different part of Dublin. Not one employee is looking for compensation. I'm baffled why a bus driver moving from eg. Clontarf to Summerhill depot needs compensation of up to €2000?

I think the theory behind it, whatever its merits, is to compensate the people that live in Donnybrook, work in Donnybrook and are now told they've to work from Harristown, so wold face an hour or more extra commute.
I'm on the fence on it, tbh, it's right for management to try and save cash there, and it's also right for staff to ask for money if their quality of life would be lowered. Two sides etc etc.

KC61

MiniD wrote: »

Why would a driver need compensation to transfer to another bus depot? This was one thing which stood out in the Deloitte report. In the past 4 years, €2.5m has been paid to drivers in disturbance payments. Personally, I find that disgraceful.

My employer is relocating later this year and I will have to move to a different part of Dublin. Not one employee is looking for compensation. I'm baffled why a bus driver moving from eg. Clontarf to Summerhill depot needs compensation of up to €2000?

I think that many employers would offer some form of compensation to employees for a significant change of workplace location. But it's a question of balance, and understanding on both sides as Ste.phen says.

The real issue was the payment of compensation to "marked in" drivers for changes in their route, which is nothing short of nonsensical. In particular were the payments to drivers for the move of the city terminus of the 50, 56A, 77, and 77A from Eden Quay to Ringsend Depot where drivers are based in the first place!!!!! This is absolutely indefensible.

L1011

KC61 wrote: »

I think that many (if not most) employers would offer some form of compensation to employees for a significant change of workplace location.

Realistically these days, no they don't. Definitely not for one end of the city to another. Where I work we've just moved 5 people from south Wicklow to D24! No reloc package; take your job or leave it...

shltter

MYOB wrote: »

Compensation which is basically non-existant in the private sector...

That is not true

Maybe not very common in non unionised work places but it exists in most large companies especially those with unions obviously depending on your position if you are a manager then that is part of the job to move.

shltter

KC61 wrote: »

I think that many employers would offer some form of compensation to employees for a significant change of workplace location. But it's a question of balance, and understanding on both sides as Ste.phen says.

The real issue was the payment of compensation to "marked in" drivers for changes in their route, which is nothing short of nonsensical. In particular were the payments to drivers for the move of the city terminus of the 50, 56A, 77, and 77A from Eden Quay to Ringsend Depot where drivers are based in the first place!!!!! This is absolutely indefensible.

Correct I am only talking about payments for moving depot

Cleopatra12

shltter wrote: »

Cleopatra12 wrote: »

There are actually 3 proposals for the bogey duties

They all go on half rate
The current drivers hold there shift new get half
they all hold full shift

depending on which one is chosen either the Attendance bonus scheme is scrapped for 2 year
the Attendance and Safe driving bonus is scrapped for 2 years
or both are scrapped for good

Well its amazing that from all of the documentation passed out by both SIPTU and the NBRU today in the depots there was no mention of 3 bogy options nor mention of the attendance bonus nor the safety bonus....

Perhaps you should become a Union rep and dislose all of this hidden information to the drivers!

shltter

Cleopatra12 wrote: »

shltter wrote: »

Well its amazing that from all of the documentation passed out by both SIPTU and the NBRU today in the depots there was no mention of 3 bogy options nor mention of the attendance bonus nor the safety bonus....

Perhaps you should become a Union rep and dislose all of this hidden information to the drivers!

The union had the 3 options I outlined

I have the original draft if you would like to see it PM me your email address and I will pass it on to you.

And you are correct this information is being kept from drivers just as information relating to the operation of the 48 hour week in practise is being kept from drivers on issues like swapping duties, standbys, and floats on bank holidays for example. None of these and various other issues are covered in anything coming from the company the unions or the LRC.

L1011

shltter wrote: »

That is not true

Maybe not very common in non unionised work places but it exists in most large companies especially those with unions obviously depending on your position if you are a manager then that is part of the job to move.

If you didn't manage to notice for the past twenty years; the majority of private sector workplaces in Ireland are not unionised now, and definately not most "large companies". And if anyone is gonna get "disturbance money" in a private sector firm it IS the managers.

shltter

MYOB wrote: »

If you didn't manage to notice for the past twenty years; the majority of private sector workplaces in Ireland are not unionised now, and definately not most "large companies". And if anyone is gonna get "disturbance money" in a private sector firm it IS the managers.

Irrelevant I never said one way or the other whether they were unionised or not. But a half a million private sector workers are trade union members.

It depends on your contract my contract states I work from one depot and that i can move between depots as vacancies arise but that if the company want to move me then they will compensate me for the upheaval and inconvenience that causes me. It is not unusual in companies that operate from multiple locations.

MiniD

When do we expect to hear the result of the ballot?

If drivers don't accept these recommendations, what happens next? Will there be a strike, and if so, how much notice will be given to passengers?

shltter

MiniD wrote: »

When do we expect to hear the result of the ballot?

If drivers don't accept these recommendations, what happens next? Will there be a strike, and if so, how much notice will be given to passengers?

No ballot yet won't be a ballot till the earliest next thursday probably the thursday after that then the result will be that evening or the next day


After that depends on whether it is accepted or rejected if it is accepted then no strike obviously if it is rejected then who knows what will happen

rx8

Firstly,
Compensation was paid to drivers on 50/56a and on 77's for moving the terminus from Eden Quay to Ringsend Garage. It was to compensate for the extension of the routes, and also the loss of canteen facilities that were used in Earl Place, among other things.

Secondly,
While comparing the union handout yesterday with the proposed savings the company wanted to implement, I see very little changes. What is the "Chairmans Document" that it refers to? There were lots of topics either left out of the discussions or we're not being told about.

Thirdly,
If the ballot result is to reject the propasals, then surely,both sides will revert to their pre-talks positions, and that will lead to an all-out strike.

Also, Cleopatra12, are you a spokesperson for Dublin Bus ?

I for one will be voting to reject these stupid changes, if it takes a few days on strike to make the government realise that they have to properly fund our public transport system and increase the number of buses on the road, then so be it ! This seems to be the inclination of any of my colleagues that i've spoken to.

ardmacha

I for one will be voting to reject these stupid changes, if it takes a few days on strike to make the government realise that they have to properly fund our public transport system and increase the number of buses on the road, then so be it !

Whatever the merits of more buses on the road, the chances of the government increasing funding to public transport at present is zero. You are going to see welfare benefits being trimmed, health care cutbacks and already there have been effective public sector pay cuts. Striking to achieve the impossible is simply going to damage the whole concept of state owned public transport.

meanmachine3

rx8 wrote: »

Firstly,
I for one will be voting to reject these stupid changes, if it takes a few days on strike to make the government realise that they have to properly fund our public transport system and increase the number of buses on the road, then so be it ! This seems to be the inclination of any of my colleagues that i've spoken to.

i'm with ya on that one bro. but your forgetting that the company have already gotten what they wanted. and that is the rugby match and paddys day out of the way. it seems like another 20% document to me.as some drivers have already said in other posts theres alot of stuff that we have'nt been told about in this document and these will probably remain hidden until after all the votes have been counted.

L1011

shltter wrote: »

Irrelevant I never said one way or the other whether they were unionised or not.

Some posts earlier:

shltter wrote: »

Maybe not very commonin non unionised work places but it exists in most large companies especially those with unions obviously depending on your position if you are a manager then that is part of the job to move.

shltter

rx8 wrote: »

Firstly,


Secondly,
While comparing the union handout yesterday with the proposed savings the company wanted to implement, I see very little changes. What is the "Chairmans Document" that it refers to? There were lots of topics either left out of the discussions or we're not being told about..

What the unions handed out yesterday was the second draft of the "chairmans document" AFAIK after the talks last week the company had a set of proposals and the talks were going nowhere so he proposed taking the companies proposals and making his own document which the unions would agree to allow the membership to ballot on.

The document he came up with is virtually identical to the companies proposals so the document handed out yesterday has not been agreed by either union and they are not recommending a yes vote.

There was supposed to be a final third draft available yesterday that never materialised and then this morning we had RTE reporting significant progress and that the Document would be available today. I have not seen it yet but I am reliably informed it is the same as the second draft yesterday with some minor tinkering and a more detailed proposal on the replacement for the current Euro agreement.

Dublin Bus are spinning this and trying to talk it up as a negotiated settlement that is not what this is it is the chairman of the LRCs proposals which are basically the companies proposals.

rx8 wrote: »

Thirdly,
If the ballot result is to reject the propasals, then surely,both sides will revert to their pre-talks positions, and that will lead to an all-out strike.
.

IMO the chairman of the LRC wants to see how the rank and file membership feel about the companies proposals if they are rejected then presumably that will put some pressure on the company to be somewhat flexible.
The other thing is that the company have revealed that the whole layoff thing was a ploy they never intended to lay anyone off they cannot implement the 48 hour week and lay off 160 staff simple as.
The truth is that this is all about implementing the 48 hour week on the cheap.

If the talks collapse and they lay off 160 staff that is the end of the 48 hour week they can't have both.

Then it is a strike about travelling time, shift pay, late breaks, compensation payments and the new bills,

The NBRU led us down a blind alley by insisting on voluntary redundancy now we are expected to fund redundancies with work practise changes. No way I am working more hours for less pay to allow 80 drivers to leave a year early.

shltter

MYOB wrote: »

Some posts earlier:

I suggest you read what you wrote I never said most most large companies were unionised. I said the practise of disturbance money is common in most large companies especially those that are unionised.

I will highlight it for you

but it exists in most large companies especially those with unions

I will spell it out for you large companies that operate in multiple locations normally have procedures including disturbance payments for moving staff between locations. And if that company is unionised then it will almost definitely have such a procedure.

Small non unionised companies most often don't have multiple locations and hence no agreements for moving staff.

L1011

And how many large companies with unions do we have in the private sector in Ireland? Very few. Which was my original point before you went off on a pointless tangent.

Disturbance money in the private sector is exceptionally rare for rank and file workers, end of. For moving across a city it is absolutely unheard of.

mikemac

Disturbance money?

I remember hearing about drivers getting compensation to move to Harristown.
So if they are asked to move from Harristown back to their original depot are they going to give the money back?
Or at least refuse an offer of disturbance money?

Nah, better to be paid two times over.

Just using Harristown as an example, I don't know what depot moves are planned

shltter

MYOB wrote: »

And how many large companies with unions do we have in the private sector in Ireland? Very few. Which was my original point before you went off on a pointless tangent.

Disturbance money in the private sector is exceptionally rare for rank and file workers, end of. For moving across a city it is absolutely unheard of.

Actually there are over 600,000 union members in Ireland

Public sector is 330,000 66% are union members or 220,000 add semi states means in excess of 300,000 union members are in the private sector and it is a fact that union membership is predominantly in large companies not small to medium enterprises

So we have a lot of large companies that are unionised

But if you read my post I said that most large companies have agreements on staff movements especially those with unions now that means I am recognising that not all large companies are unionised I never even suggested most of them were.

And finally as to your claim that it is unheard of for workers in the private sector to recieve payments for relocation


http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:enwF8TlWpJ8J:www.iboa.ie/images/feb06/IBOA%2520Newsletter_Spring06.pdf+bank+staff+disturbance+payment+IBOA&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

Just as an example

L1011

IBOA = unionised, and the sums involved are tiny compared to DBs - 635 euro in total. How long did it take you to find that example may I ask?

Of your ~300,000 unionised private sector workers; 44,000 are in MANDATE. Never heard of a shop or a pub having relocation deals. I'm sure we could deconstruct this further if need be...

Once again, disturbance money is virtually unheard of outside the public sector. Those in the public sector may wish to pretend that its common; but it isn't.

shltter

MYOB wrote: »

IBOA = unionised, and the sums involved are tiny compared to DBs - 635 euro in total. How long did it take you to find that example may I ask?

Of your ~300,000 unionised private sector workers; 44,000 are in MANDATE. Never heard of a shop or a pub having relocation deals. I'm sure we could deconstruct this further if need be...

Once again, disturbance money is virtually unheard of outside the public sector. Those in the public sector may wish to pretend that its common; but it isn't.

Hang on you said it was unheard of it took me 30 seconds to find an example of it in the Private sector.


http://www.labourcourt.ie/labour/labcourtweb.nsf/ba285dac6a308aa280256a01005bb35c/80256a770034a2ab8025734800539533?OpenDocument


http://www.labourcourt.ie/labour/labcourtweb.nsf/ba285dac6a308aa280256a01005bb35c/80256a770034a2ab80257230004f2258?OpenDocument


http://www.labourcourt.ie/labour/labcourtweb.nsf/ba285dac6a308aa280256a01005bb35c/80256a770034a2ab802571e9004de029?OpenDocument



http://www.labourcourt.ie/labour/labcourtweb.nsf/ba285dac6a308aa280256a01005bb35c/80256a770034a2ab80257195003dd565?OpenDocument



http://www.labourcourt.ie/labour/labcourtweb.nsf/ba285dac6a308aa280256a01005bb35c/80256a770034a2ab8025713300590d3c?OpenDocument



http://www.labourcourt.ie/labour/labcourtweb.nsf/ba285dac6a308aa280256a01005bb35c/80256a770034a2ab80257075003ab222?OpenDocument



http://www.labourcourt.ie/labour/labcourtweb.nsf/ba285dac6a308aa280256a01005bb35c/80256a770034a2ab80256eee00314aef?OpenDocument

Thats 5 minutes on the labour court site

Now I have clearly demonstrated that you are talking nonsense

L1011

No, you've found a few select examples, all of which are in small, unionised companies. The vast majority of workers in Ireland are not unionised - 1.4M vs. 600,000. Nearly all those cases are also based on precedent within the employer or past union bargaining.

Just face it - the majority of the private sector would never get a penny for a cross-city move. You've clearly demonstrated nothing other than the excessive power unions have in this country.

shltter

MYOB wrote: »

No, you've found a few select examples, all of which are in small, unionised companies. The vast majority of workers in Ireland are not unionised - 1.4M vs. 600,000. Nearly all those cases are also based on precedent within the employer or past union bargaining.

Just face it - the majority of the private sector would never get a penny for a cross-city move. You've clearly demonstrated nothing other than the excessive power unions have in this country.

Lmao that you are now claiming a company with 650 employees is now a small company.

Look you are talking out of your hat you claimed it was unheard of I have clearly shown it happens all the time.
These are just examples where there was a dispute regarding payment that was referred to the labour court.

Time you faced facts just because you would not pay it or be paid it does not mean it does not exist no matter how much you would like it not to exist.

trellheim

this conversation is madness. We moved 150 a couple of years back, money for moving wasnt' even considered ...


The only way I can think it might be an issue is if seniority is a factor and if it's lost when moving depots.

MiniD

Perhaps it's just me, but in the current climate, the idea of looking for €2,000 for changing depots would be the last thing on my mind right now. If it meant keeping my job I would happily change locations every week.

rx8 wrote: »

Compensation was paid to drivers on 50/56a and on 77's for moving the terminus from Eden Quay to Ringsend Garage. It was to compensate for the extension of the routes, and also the loss of canteen facilities that were used in Earl Place, among other things.

So €269,000 was paid to drivers because they had to eat their lunch in the bus depot canteen instead of a city centre canteen. Lovely.

I've also read about drivers being compensated because a bus terminus was being extended or relocated. How can that be justified? What does it matter is the bus terminus is in one housing estate or another? Your working hours stay the same and your conditions stay the same.

shltter

trellheim wrote: »

this conversation is madness. We moved 150 a couple of years back, money for moving wasnt' even considered ...

.

Fair play to you sounds like a lovely place to work

shltter

MiniD wrote: »

Perhaps it's just me, but in the current climate, the idea of looking for €2,000 for changing depots would be the last thing on my mind right now. If it meant keeping my job I would happily change locations every week.

Of course you would :rolleyes:

MiniD wrote: »

So €269,000 was paid to drivers because they had to eat their lunch in the bus depot canteen instead of a city centre canteen. Lovely.

There are no canteen facilities in ringsend.

I was wondering why they were paid money as I know in my garage we have had a few movements and changes in the last few years and no one looked for or was paid anything. But if they were moving them away from the dublin bus canteen for their breaks then there would be an obvious increased expense and inconvenience on drivers.

Victor

MiniD wrote: »

I've also read about drivers being compensated because a bus terminus was being extended or relocated. How can that be justified? What does it matter is the bus terminus is in one housing estate or another? Your working hours stay the same and your conditions stay the same.

I understand drivers are paid about €150 if there is a major change in a route. Given the extra hassle of delaing with passengers (extra) queries and upsets, this probably isn't unreasonable.

trellheim wrote: »

this conversation is madness. We moved 150 a couple of years back, money for moving wasnt' even considered ...

Are you saying there was no oiling, no understanding or allowance for adjustment?

L1011

shltter wrote: »

Fair play to you sounds like a lovely place to work

No, sounds like a non union infested one.

AlekSmart

No, sounds like a non union infested one

Is MYOB`s use of such emotive words as "infested" based upon some deep seated antipathy to the concept of "Organized" movements per se or even human collectives in any form ?

I can see a certain validity in that,as the Fianna Fail "Developer and Builder" collective is demonstrating on a ongoing basis.

However in the current CIE group case it is at least 3 decades behind reality in terms of Union "Power" or Union`s ability to direct the cactions of its members.

The old adage that the Trade`s Union movement IS it`s membership is ever more true in this case.
There are at least 4 General Meetings scheduled for next week when the Negotiating Committee`s of the two Unions will reveal the ACTUAL contents of what has been agreed as a proposal.
I can guarantee MYOB that the Union Executive`s and their negotiators will be put under EXTREME pressure by their membership`s on the various issues contained therein.
This is DEMOCRACY in action at it`s most basic and at a level which has,perhaps,been forgotten by the current members of Dàil Eireann.

I can further Guarantee MYOB that the proposals,as circulating,are most definitely NOT a done-deal and that the Fat Lady has not even cleared her throat let alone warbled a verse or two.

BUT....MYOB needs to let go of the Citizen Smith,"Power to the People" aspect of Trades Unionism in respect of the current situation cos it "just ain`t so Ma".

By the time next Sunday comes around I reckon the Senior Union Officials will be nursing some very livid bruises indeed.

trellheim

I'm not sure what you mean Victor.

We had outgrown a building, so we got a new place to work. Staff were told where to report for work after the weekend we moved ... any suggestions/questions re fit out and working conditions were asked and answered to the best of management's ability

Money for moving would have been risible in the extreme. [ And I'm not management , and we're not unionised but so what , we all had things to do ]

shltter

trellheim wrote: »

I'm not sure what you mean Victor.

We had outgrown a building, so we got a new place to work. Staff were told where to report for work after the weekend we moved ... any suggestions/questions re fit out and working conditions were asked and answered to the best of management's ability

Money for moving would have been risible in the extreme. [ And I'm not management , and we're not unionised but so what , we all had things to do ]

If you and your colleagues are happy with that fair play to you, that is your choice.

shltter

AlekSmart wrote: »

Is MYOB`s use of such emotive words as "infested" based upon some deep seated antipathy to the concept of "Organized" movements per se or even human collectives in any form ?

I can see a certain validity in that,as the Fianna Fail "Developer and Builder" collective is demonstrating on a ongoing basis.

However in the current CIE group case it is at least 3 decades behind reality in terms of Union "Power" or Union`s ability to direct the cactions of its members.

The old adage that the Trade`s Union movement IS it`s membership is ever more true in this case.
There are at least 4 General Meetings scheduled for next week when the Negotiating Committee`s of the two Unions will reveal the ACTUAL contents of what has been agreed as a proposal.
I can guarantee MYOB that the Union Executive`s and their negotiators will be put under EXTREME pressure by their membership`s on the various issues contained therein.
This is DEMOCRACY in action at it`s most basic and at a level which has,perhaps,been forgotten by the current members of Dàil Eireann.

I can further Guarantee MYOB that the proposals,as circulating,are most definitely NOT a done-deal and that the Fat Lady has not even cleared her throat let alone warbled a verse or two.

BUT....MYOB needs to let go of the Citizen Smith,"Power to the People" aspect of Trades Unionism in respect of the current situation cos it "just ain`t so Ma".

By the time next Sunday comes around I reckon the Senior Union Officials will be nursing some very livid bruises indeed.

Absolutely Alek most people who have never been in a union have the stereotype image of the ordinary members being unintelligible fools being led by some trotskyist determined to be the vanguard of the revolution. The truth is very very different.

L1011

I've been in a union (two, actually), and as a result I have no time for the outdated, outmoded organisations who do more damage than good.