Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF). Good or Bad?

bromley52

I am buying a 2008 Ford Focus Zetec 1.6TDCi with a DPF. Can anyone tell me how reliable DPFs are? I have heard of problems regenerating and they are costly to top up/replace if required. Should I keep away from cars with these?

-Chris-

In my experience, there are no problems with DPFs and there's no topping up involved.

If you're doing lots of short journeys, the system may not get hot enough to burn off the "soot" and you'll get the DPF light on the dashboard. But if that comes on, all you have to do is take it for a run.

Here's the VAG info on the subject.

Stevie Dakota

A friend had a Grand Scenic with one and on a few occasions the car would loose all power on the motorway when the DPF was clogged, scared the bejesus out of him. They now thrash it up and down the motorway once in a while to keep it clean, seems to be you just have to get used to how it work.

roosterman71

We have something similar on our Opel Combo van. Every so often the engine warning light comes on. I got it checked by Opel and they said its soot from driving short journeys. They can replace it, but its costly. The advice they gave was to drive it at high revs for a while to clear it out. That worked for a while but the light came on again. I thing the van just needs to be taken for a proper spin to clear itself.

Row

Dpf's are now fitted to nearly all modern diesels that are produced today...
I think they are here to stay....:eek:
I've got a 407 1.6 hdi which has much the same engine as what is in the focus....the are both PSA engines.
On the 407 the dpf regenerates every 300-350 miles (500k)which is normal.
while it regens the engine injection advances which brings up the exhaust temps to burn the built up black carbon in the filter and burns it to ash.

It gets the signal to regen when.....
1)the differential pressure across filter widens (filter blocking)
2)fuel cap sensor (Scenes every time the tank gets diesel)
3)whats the average mph...distance since last regen..etc

Also while its goin tro a regen the cooling fan runs to put a load on the engine and to cool the dpf when the car is stopped while its in the middle of a regen.

The dpfs need to be repalced at around 90-100,000 miles as the will have blocked up with the burnt off ash in the filter housing that has been collected thro the years..:(
There is an additive tank beside the diesel tank which will need to be topped up at the same time the filter has been replaced..The additive is called eolys 176 on the 407 (1.6 hdi)
after every fill/topup of diesel this eolys is injected into the diesel tank.
the eolys serm is used to lower the combustion temp of the carbon in the dpf
which causes the carbon to burn off faster.

Some people have tried cleaning the dpfs (after they have been removed:))
Some have succeeded and some have failed...
Peugeot used to Perform a forced regeneration on the cars that had a dpf fault displayed due to short stop/start journeys, but will not do so anymore as it can do long term damage to the engine.....:eek:

After all that i'm happy with my dpf...untill its time to replace it in the
the next 20k....:eek:...and at a cost of around 800 euro from Peugeot....:eek:
Row.

Row

roosterman71 wrote: »

We have something similar on our Opel Combo van. Every so often the engine warning light comes on. I got it checked by Opel and they said its soot from driving short journeys. They can replace it, but its costly. The advice they gave was to drive it at high revs for a while to clear it out. That worked for a while but the light came on again. I thing the van just needs to be taken for a proper spin to clear itself.

Hi roosterman71,
what year is your combo and what engine have you got ??... 1.7 or 1.3
Row.

roosterman71

Row wrote: »

Hi roosterman71,
what year is your combo and what engine have you got ??... 1.7 or 1.3
Row.

Its a 05 with the 1.3 engine

Row

roosterman71 wrote: »

Its a 05 with the 1.3 engine

Thanks roosterman,
Did'nt think the 1.3's had a Dpf....;)
row.

roosterman71

It has something similar so.

Row

if you have it one it should be under the handbrake position on your exhaust.
Think there are two pipes connected to it...;)

shamwari

I have a Cmax 1.6 TDci, (engine code DV6) which is essentially the same car as the Focus from a mechanicals point of view. We've had the car 12 months now and have had a few gremlins with it and I feel my experiences should be considered if anyone is thinking of buying a Focus or Cmax with this engine. I should also add that I am a competent home mechanic for many years now, with access to diagnostic devices and software.

Generally speaking, these latest TDCi engines are extremely complicated with sensors monitoring and controlling almost every aspect of engine operation. Unless you know what you are doing and have access the appropriate diagnostic equipment then there's not much you can do when things go wrong. It is imperative that they are serviced on time and to the letter. Accidentally putting petrol into one of these things can cause catastrophic and expensive damage, so be warned! Your talking injection pump, injectors, and a full flush of all pipework and fuel tank. :eek:

Our first failure arose about 4 weeks after we took ownership of the car and was repaired under warranty. The engine management light came on and a fault code scan produced a P0404 code which relates to a problem with the EGR valve. In most cars, EGR replacement is straightforward, however on this particular engine, the new EGR must be "coded into" the car as the engine control unit (ECU) must learn the operating parameters of the new device. It is not a plug and play device and therefore a trip to the main dealer or suitably equipped garage will be needed to install and code in the new EGR.

The second issue we had with the car was alternator failure. I have been told that some of the alternators used by Ford in several of their applications are known to be "a bit soft". Our one packed up with just 34K on the clock. The stator coils went short circuit and the alternator overheated. A replacement from Myles Balfe was quoted at €350 +VAT, however Ford in Newry (for example) will sell you one for little over half that. The whole charging system in the newer Focus' is called a "smart charge" system, and it relies on the ECU to regulate the realtime voltage of charge system. The battery is specially designed for this system and must be replaced with the correct one. The Smart Charge system is a bit clever though. In certain cases where for example, it is very cold and dark, and just about everything electrical in the car in switched on, the ECU can modulate the alternator output up to 18V. Sounds great, but those alternators are weak, and there can be serious problems if you try to jump start one of these cars on a cold day, especially if it decides to deliver 18v into your jump leads and donor battery!!. In such cases, it is better to remove the battery and charge it.

The third problem we've had concerns the diesel particulate filter. Again the engine management light came on and revealed a P2002 fault code, which related to the DPF effeciency being below threshold. I brought the car back to the main dealer because my investigations suggested that (1) a DPF regeneration was required and (2) doing this and the sort of diagnostics required thereafter were beyond the scope of my laptop and software! As row's excellent post explains re the DPF system operation, the dealer thought that the EOLYS might have been low (I disagreed as the fault code would have been different) but it was ok. The next step was to check the operation of the differential pressure sensor by applying a known pressure (300mb) to the sensor and reading the live data to verify that this was the reading given by the sensor. It was in preparation for this test that it was discovered that one of the hoses connecting the dpf to the sensor was damaged and preventing the sensor from getting a true reading from the dpf.
The hoses and the sensor are sold as one unit and are expensive.........

Other comments I should are that the Focus / Cmax use CanBus, which in its simplest form means that the wiring in the cars carry digital signals between the various devices as well as electricity. This has implications if you want to fit a tow bar and wish to connect a trailer socket. It has to be specially wired in using a kit. If you hardwire the socket in as per an older car, you will cause problems......

Despite my experiences with reliability, the Cmax we have does give very strong performance. The 1.6TDCi engine is available in 90 and 110bhp form and mine (110bhp) is very quick indeed. Economy ranges from about 43Mpg around town to low 50's on the motorway. The performance and economy is all the more commendable considering that these cars are quite heavy. They are a nice car to drive and certainly the Cmax handles more car-like than an MPV! On balance I would recommend them, but beware that reliability is not guaranteed as with Ford's of yesteryear, and when things do go wrong, it can be expensive.

marmstro

Thanks Shamwari,

For the comprehensive accessment. Is it possible to remove and clean the EGR without recalibrating? I have 2006 Focus 1.6TDCi (DV6 Code) just out of warranty, with classic EGR symptoms, loss of power, smokey etc. The engine light comes on but no code is recorded thus far. Local Ford dealers
want and arm and a leg to run diags and repair and at the moment I can only spare a few fingers.I was hoping I might be able to do eliminate the EGR if i could clean it up before going further.

What do you think.

Thanks,

Marmstro

Row

marmstro wrote: »

I have 2006 Focus 1.6TDCi (DV6 Code) just out of warranty, with classic EGR symptoms, loss of power, smokey etc. The engine light comes on but no code is recorded thus far.

If you have excess smoke (Black) then you will run the risk of blocking
your partical filter....:eek:
You need to find out what fault code you have and take it from there.
it could be a m.a.f or m.a.p sensor problem but again a fault code will leed
you in the right direction...:)

What code reader are you using thats not giving you a fault code....

andrewdeerpark

roosterman71 wrote: »

Its a 05 with the 1.3 engine

I know this post is a bit old however I have the same VAN Combo CDTI 1.3 05 and the DPF valve has been replaced twice, 45K first time and 91K second time, only issue with the van.

And yes most of my trips are short, stop start ones so that is the issue, by the way the replacement cost 370euro 2nd time (part and labour) from a main dealer.

Row

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

I know this post is a bit old however I have the same VAN Combo CDTI 1.3 05 and the DPF valve has been replaced twice, 45K first time and 91K second time, only issue with the van.

And yes most of my trips are short, stop start ones so that is the issue, by the way the replacement cost 370euro 2nd time (part and labour) from a main dealer.

Hi andrewdeerpark,
"DPF valve has been replaced twice" do you mean the dpf filter....it must be at 370euro...
Ron.

andrewdeerpark

Its a valve that clogs up with Carbon in the engine. The part cost 172.15 and the rest was labour.

The first time if happened me the VAN was under warranty and it did not cost me a cent under 2 year warranty.

You may get cheaper in a non-franchise garage, this is a know fault with the engine other than that not one other issue so not so bad really think the Combo is a spot on VAN.

cheery

Hi All
I've been doing a lot of searching for DPF related information, as I'm having problems with mine.
I've a 2005 c-max 1.6tdci and getting the fluid low error. Ford reckon they've never seen one with a dpf before and havent a clue about them :eek: and there's nothing on their 'system' to show the additive even exists :eek:

My mechanic was working at Caseys til a couple of weeks ago, and had found out you could use the volvo additive in the ford, and had a couple of litres left over from another job which he put in my car for me - and he was going to get another 5litres for around 100 but the firm went into liquidisation

The 2 litres hasn't cleared the error, so we're assuming it needs the other 3 litres so its full before it will reset. The trouble is, it seems to be nearly impossible to get hold of the additive and the only place I can get the Volvo one is a dealer who wants 280 plus vat for 3 litres.

Does anyone know of a more reasonable place I can get this additive, or even have some spare going cheap

Also, I've a hard wired tow bar, which was fitted prior to finding out about the car having the dpf, its wired via the rear light I believe, and now I'm concerned this is going to cause a problem of some sort, and maybe even with the dpf - anyone have any idea as to what problems might be caused?

hhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeelllllllllllllllpppppppppppp

Row

Hi Cheery,
Not sure about fords..but this engine is based on the Peugoet 1.6 hdi which
has an additive tank and needs to be topped up around 80-100k.
Peugeot us two types of additive,most of the time on these It's eloys 176
thats used which works out around 110euro for 3 litres and the additive ecu
will have to be reset to know that the tank has been topped up.
again not sure whay ford use but the eloys is a rusty coloured liquid and
is pretty nasty stuff and can burn your skin..:eek:
this is the stuff that peugeot use http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PEUGEOT-307-407-PEF-PARTICULATE-FILTER-FLUID-EOLYS-176_W0QQitemZ320439928297QQcategoryZ10406QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BIEW%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D11%26ps%3D63
The additive is used to reduce the burning temp of the soot that builts up
in the dpf between dpf regenerations.
Ron.

cheery

Thanks Row That sounds like the same stuff. I've only got the Volvo part number (V1161752) as that's what was put in. Ford couldn't give me a part number because it doesn't exist (supposedly).
I'm not sure if its the early or late stuff I'd need, so I'll have to try and fatham that out.
Any idea if that seller delivers to ireland?

Row

cheery wrote: »

Thanks Row That sounds like the same stuff. I've only got the Volvo part number (V1161752) as that's what was put in. Ford couldn't give me a part number because it doesn't exist (supposedly).
I'm not sure if its the early or late stuff I'd need, so I'll have to try and fatham that out.
Any idea if that seller delivers to ireland?

Sorry Cheery...I'm after reading your first post again but on the peugeot 1.6 hdi the additive tank only holds around 3 litres..I cannot see ford been much
different...
again on the Peugeot 1.6 hdi it doesn't matter if you fill it up to the top as
the "additive low message" will still be displayed unless counter 1 and 2 are
reset back to zero on the additive ecu with Planet 2000...again i'd say ford must be much the same.

I think i have about a litre of eloys left over after a few additive top ups
i done in the last few months..... if your stuck....:)

Has your mechanic reset the additive ecu when he topped up with the two
litres....???
Here's a pic of the additive tank on a Peugeot 407 1.6 hdi which needs an
topup.
Ron.

Row

and here's it after been topped up...maybe check your own and see if it
looks much the same.......Ron.

cheery

Hi Ron

I would love to take you up of the offer of your leftover fluid, as cheeky as that might be thank you very much for the offer of it too.

My mechanic tried to reset the diagnostics with the ford diagnostic computer, but it wouldn't reset - he was just has puzzled as me over that one Hes not done a ford dpf before, just volvo, but it should be similar.

As soon as there's a break in the rain, I'll have a check of the tank.
Susan

Row

cheery wrote: »

Hi Ron

I would love to take you up of the offer of your leftover fluid, as cheeky as that might be thank you very much for the offer of it too.

My mechanic tried to reset the diagnostics with the ford diagnostic computer, but it wouldn't reset - he was just has puzzled as me over that one Hes not done a ford dpf before, just volvo, but it should be similar.

As soon as there's a break in the rain, I'll have a check of the tank.
Susan

Hi Susan,
By the way theres a aluminium cover over the above tank..again the ford
additive tank maybe different...

Hope you get it sorted...:)
Ron.

cheery

Hi Ron

My tank looks very similar, if a little bigger.

I've just found something called "Platimum Plus DFX-DPF" from Cumminsfiltration.com and theres a stockist in Oranmore - Mannion Motor Parts Ltd.

I was wondering if you've come across this, and if it was similar to the eloys additive.

Thanks
Susan

Row

cheery wrote: »

Hi Ron

My tank looks very similar, if a little bigger.

I've just found something called "Platimum Plus DFX-DPF" from Cumminsfiltration.com and theres a stockist in Oranmore - Mannion Motor Parts Ltd.

I was wondering if you've come across this, and if it was similar to the eloys additive.

Thanks
Susan

Hi Susan,
I haven't seen that product before...afaik that maybe used in trucks...:eek:
I would'nt go mixing it with the eloys unless youy know for definate.

Peugeot sell eloys if you need it...it works out around 110euro for 3 litres..:rolleyes:
you may need a vin number so the can order it.
I cannot understand why ford are not supplying this...
have you rang around a few ford garages to find out..??
Ron.

cheery

.... I got hold of a really helpful company in uk this afternoon, apparently the makeup of the ford one is slightly different to the others - no surprises there I guess .

The cummins one is no longer available as theyve taken it off the market :eek:, but with your comment I would have avoided it either way - I hadn't considered it being for lorries only.

The uk company suspect the error message won't reset because its not the right additive, wasn't filled right up, and it wasn't a total change of fluid - how the car knows all of that I haven't a clue, especially regarding the additive makeup

I've bitten the bullet and ordered it from uk tonight, it's a couple of hundred pounds but at least its a full refill and its the proper ford stuff. I'm just thankful it lasts for about 75000 miles!

I've really appreciated all the help and advice I've had . I'd not got to this point without it that's for certain.

Susan

Row

cheery wrote: »

.... I got hold of a really helpful company in uk this afternoon, apparently the makeup of the ford one is slightly different to the others - no surprises there I guess .

The cummins one is no longer available as theyve taken it off the market :eek:, but with your comment I would have avoided it either way - I hadn't considered it being for lorries only.

The uk company suspect the error message won't reset because its not the right additive, wasn't filled right up, and it wasn't a total change of fluid - how the car knows all of that I haven't a clue, especially regarding the additive makeup

I've bitten the bullet and ordered it from uk tonight, it's a couple of hundred pounds but at least its a full refill and its the proper ford stuff. I'm just thankful it lasts for about 75000 miles!

I've really appreciated all the help and advice I've had . I'd not got to this point without it that's for certain.

Susan

Hope it workes out for you...but if its like Peugeot/Citroen I think you'll need the ecu reset..
best of luck with it and let us know how you get on...:)
Ron.

OwlsZat

shamwari wrote: »

I have a Cmax 1.6 TDci, (engine code DV6)
The hoses and the sensor are sold as one unit and are expensive.........

Your telling me you couldn't spec and source another similar hose, without buying the entire DPF again? You have to be kidding me!

colm_mcm

OwlsZat wrote: »

Your telling me you couldn't spec and source another similar hose, without buying the entire DPF again? You have to be kidding me!

You dug up a thread from 2009 for that?
You have to be kidding me?

mullingar

Digging up a 2 year thread is a bit of a no-no, but at least you did a proper search to find it!;)

OwlsZat

colm_mcm wrote: »

You dug up a thread from 2009 for that?
You have to be kidding me?

haha, I just bought a 1.6tdci so I happened to read through it

shamwari

OwlsZat wrote: »

Your telling me you couldn't spec and source another similar hose, without buying the entire DPF again? You have to be kidding me!

The DPF differential pressure sensor is not part of the DPF itself. It is a seperate item in istelf which consists of a sensor and two special rubber hoses (the hoses are made from high melting point rubber). Our car broke one of these hoses and we couldn't get a replacement hose by itself UNLESS we bought the sensor with it.

EPM

Zombie thread closed.