Should Ireland rejoin the Commonwealth?

Soldie

Today is Commonwealth day - the annual celebration of the Commonwealth. It has been 60 years since the formation of the Commonwealth in its current form, and 60 years since Ireland left it upon becoming a republic. According to the Singapore (1971) and Harare (1991) declarations, the Commonwealth seeks to promote individual liberty, egalitarianism, free-trade, multilateralism, world peace, a rejection of international coercion, eradication of disease and poverty, among other things. Should Ireland consider rejoining the Commonwealth and why or why not?

Our man in Havana

Yep. We should. We should be an inclusive society.

Grudaire

Bond-007 wrote: »

Yep. We should. We should be an inclusive society.

By excluding nationalists?

We tried it - didn't like it.

segaBOY

It makes economic sense by increasing our market for tariff free export capabilities but I don't see the massive advantages of it.

After all it is little more than a figurehead nowadays, "Harare agreement" quoted, interesting choice of city for that one-how long did it take the UK to finally expel Zimbabwe from the Commonwealth after Mugabe began the mass eviction of white farmers and destruction of their own country? It's a weak organisation with the UK holding on to a bit of colonial nostalgia IMO.

sligobhoy67

Soldie wrote: »

Today is Commonwealth day - the annual celebration of the Commonwealth. It has been 60 years since the formation of the Commonwealth in its current form, and 60 years since Ireland left it upon becoming a republic. According to the Singapore (1971) and Harare (1991) declarations, the Commonwealth seeks to promote individual liberty, egalitarianism, free-trade, multilateralism, world peace, a rejection of international coercion, eradication of disease and poverty, among other things. Should Ireland consider rejoining the Commonwealth and why or why not?

how should I put this - simply I suppose.

No!!! it gave us nothing before, its got nothing to offer us now!

Dannyboy83

We never left it.

Technically, we were within the Commonwealth, while politically being outside it, Thanks to the Australian Prime Minister who said we were a Mother country and made it possible for us to retain all the benefits while dropping the name.
An Irish solution.

I don't think there are too many benefits to Commonwealth membership these days.
I'd like to know what they are, if there are any.

Don't the French have their own version for CFA/CFP & French Guinea in South America ?

Our man in Havana

Commonwealth games for starters.

Also it would give Irish citizens the option of becoming British Subjects.

Dannyboy83

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

how should I put this - simply I suppose.

No!!! it gave us nothing before, its got nothing to offer us now!

Well, actually it gave us lots before and the country would have collapsed overnight without it.

But I guess we don't need it since 1 January 1973 really.

brianthebard

god not that bull again....

segaBOY

Bond-007 wrote: »

Also it would give Irish citizens the option of becoming British Subjects.

Why is that so great? We have the right to work and live in Britain anyway, join the British Army, vote over there etc etc as Irish Citizens. British Subject status is useless, can't even travel to the States on a British Subject passport. And such a passport doesn't even allow colony Island dwellers who are still under control of the British Crown to live in the UK currently, just a half baked status to keep the remaining overseas islands British while not allowing the natives to emigrate to the motherland.

Our man in Havana

My mother has used her British Subject passport many times to travel from Ireland. Always handy to have if you ever need to ditch the Irish one.

segaBOY

Bond-007 wrote: »

My mother has used her British Subject passport many times to travel from Ireland. Always handy to have if you ever need to ditch the Irish one.

Well my father decided not to exercise his right to get one-then again he never really needed to ditch his Irish one either. :P

thebman

No because of the message it sends that we need help and can't run our own house.

British banks aren't doing too great either so we can run our house at least as well as they can run their house.

We are in the EU, it is the way forward.

segaBOY

thebman wrote: »

No because of the message it sends that we need help and can't run our own house.

British banks aren't doing too great either so we can run our house at least as well as they can run their house.

We are in the EU, it is the way forward.

Rubbish, Bertie Ahern was quoted as saying that he thought of rejoining during the boom times but decided against it due to populous opinion.

Gruffalo

While I dont really care either way, it might be considered as a means toward Irish reunification, whereby unionists would still be able to have their British Identity.

Dannyboy83

Gruffalo wrote: »

While I dont really care either way, it might be considered as a means toward Irish reunification, whereby unionists would still be able to have their British Identity.

Good point bro.
Compromise is the way foward.

nesf

I'd have no problem either way to be honest. We need to make peace with our past as a nation and move onwards from it, even if it does mean accepting partition as a permanent entity.

At least partition here worked out a lot better than partition in India/Pakistan.

thebman

segaBOY wrote: »

Rubbish, Bertie Ahern was quoted as saying that he thought of rejoining during the boom times but decided against it due to populous opinion.

Bertie Ahern said a lot of things, still does.

It'll take more than Bertie to convince me its a good idea, sorry.

SeanW

+1, other than just for the sake of being a pack of West Brits, what's the point? The only advantage I can see is the Commonwealth Games and even that is a fairly pathetic reason. The Commonwealth is nothing more than a deference to old Colonialism and the Crown. Nothing to see here. Move along.

-1000 for this half baked idea from me.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

thebman wrote: »

No because of the message it sends that we need help and can't run our own house.

I think they've already got that message!

I wonder would the die-hards FINALLY stop voting for Fianna Fail if we did? Might be worth it...

diverdriver

I would say yes because in the long run it would help the cause of a united Ireland by reassuring the Unionists. There is no longer any need for an antagonistic approach to Britain or any need to murder soldiers and policemen. If we want a properly united Ireland we need to embrace those of us who see themselves as British. That's one way.

We in this country are always 'cutting of our nose to spite our face'. If we want the country we always dreamed of, then we need to be more creative in looking for it.

There are other benefits to joining the Commonwealth too, economic for one.

RiverWilde

Rejoining the Commonwealth isn't a bad idea.

Maybe Southern Ireland will actually grow up a bit and stop behaving like a spoilt child.

Riv

SeanW

diverdriver wrote: »

I would say yes because in the long run it would help the cause of a united Ireland by reassuring the Unionists.

The Good Friday Agreement, referendum and subsequent constitutional changes settled the question: Northern Ireland is to remain a part of the U.K. Full stop.

There is no longer any need for an antagonistic approach to Britain or any need to murder soldiers and policemen.

There is a very big difference between what you have just outlined, and not wanting to join the Commonwealth. We do not need to be in the Commonwealth to have good relations with the U.K. I would have thought that point had been made clear over the past decade by Irelands relations with the U.K. and indeed by American relations with the U.K. post-Revolution, but perhaps I have erred in some way :eek:

There's a difference between wanting good relations with the U.K, and wanting to dig up and old relic of Imperial colonialism. A very big difference.

There are other benefits to joining the Commonwealth too, economic for one.

Name one.

OhNoYouDidn't

SeanW wrote: »

The Good Friday Agreement, referendum and subsequent constitutional changes settled the question: Northern Ireland is to remain a part of the U.K. Full stop.

Are you for real? The GFA very clearly legalises a peaceful mechanism for unity - thats why I voted for it

There is no current reason for Ireland to join this colonial relic, economic, political or social. Its a retrograde step at a time when our future is very clearly with the EU.

Maybe further down the line when we are at the point of unification we may look at it as a sop to the unionists, but today? No thanks.

OhNoYouDidn't

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

We never left it.

Technically, we were within the Commonwealth, while politically being outside it, Thanks to the Australian Prime Minister who said we were a Mother country and made it possible for us to retain all the benefits while dropping the name.
An Irish solution.

We most certainly did. In 1947 when we declared a Republic.

Is there any end to your rubbish?

shqipshume

Here is an idea! Anyone who wants to be a member of the commonwealth and take part in their sports(oh yes because we have so many involved in that area as is) or want to be a british subject get on a flipping plane and go there and dont come back!

Kev_ps3

Are there any Irish people on this fourm? Cos this idea is laughable to any patriot.

shqipshume

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Are actually any Irish people on this fourm? Cos this idea is laughable to any patriot.

I couldnt agree with you more. I read somewhere a while back Irish are becoming not Irish and i didnt believe it.Patriotisim is a thing of past with alot of these people.
You know what the problem is they have had the silver spoon to long in their mouth.

Our man in Havana

I am an Irish citizen by accident of birth, i did not ever choose to become one.

Permabear

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Our man in Havana

donegalfella wrote: »

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It will be handy for when Cameron pulls the UK (and Biffo follows) out of the EU.
And the Commonwealth Games.

Fratton Fred

Obviously India, Pakistan, Jamaica etc etc are stupid then.

thebman

Bond-007 wrote: »

I am an Irish citizen by accident of birth, i did not ever choose to become one.

Why not apply for citizenship in another country if you want to?

Kev_ps3

shqipshume wrote: »

I couldnt agree with you more. I read somewhere a while back Irish are becoming not Irish and i didnt believe it.Patriotisim is a thing of past with alot of these people.
You know what the problem is they have had the silver spoon to long in their mouth.

Its because we are a neo-colonial country. We have free elections yes but since independance we have relied on Britain too closely. We take all our laws etc from them and copy nearly everything they do. And their sports and entertainment is hugely popular here too. Im not saying its all a bad thing, but until we start making our own decisions and going it outselves we can never call ourselves a totally free independent state.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

oscarBravo

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Are there any Irish people on this fourm? Cos this idea is laughable to any patriot.

How about you refrain from stuffing your stuck-in-the-past definitions of Irishness and patriotism down our throats? It's getting awfully old.

Our man in Havana

thebman wrote: »

Why not apply for citizenship in another country if you want to?

Not possible. If you can tell me of a country that would grant citizenship easily I would like to know.

turgon

Bond-007 wrote: »

Not possible. If you can tell me of a country that would grant citizenship easily I would like to know.

Iceland, id say theyre dying for people

I dont think the Commonwealth offers any real advantage. It would be one thing if we werent in the EU but we are, and we have access to the free market already.

partyguinness

Bond-007 wrote: »

Not possible. If you can tell me of a country that would grant citizenship easily I would like to know.

Oh dear..the "I am a self hating Irish man" forum is that way ---->>..:rolleyes:

The EU is the place to be not some clap trap post colonial institution to make the Brits feel a bit better about themselves after the ungrateful heathen turned on them.

Can anyone give one good reason why Ireland should join the Commonwealth?

As for reassuring Unionsists? Thats laughable..reassuring them of what exactly?

So what, we should give up our National identity to placate a small minority on this Island (and lets not even get into how they got here in the first place)...lol..and what do Unionists do to "reassure" us?

Giving them 1/3 of the Tricolour is enough for me thank you very much.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

partyguinness wrote: »

Oh dear..the "I am a self hating Irish man" forum is that way ---->>..:rolleyes:
.

Oh deary, deary, me. Someone disagrees with the nationalistic idealism and they're automatically dubbed "self-hating"

COMPLETE BOLLOCKS
Honestly. It's like the modern-day version of ever (oxy)moronic and thoughless "no free speech for traitors".

For the record:
1) Not in favour, don't see the point, would not bother opposing if it happened.
2) Very proud of SELF not particualrly proud of NATION.

partyguinness

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Oh deary, deary, me. Someone disagrees with the nationalistic idealism and they're automatically dubbed "self-hating"

COMPLETE BOLLOCKS
Honestly. It's like the modern-day version of ever (oxy)moronic and thoughless "no free speech for traitors".

For the record:
1) Not in favour, don't see the point, would not bother opposing if it happened.
2) Very proud of SELF not particualrly proud of NATION.

Nothing to do with Nationalistic idealism..this guy is not happy about being born in Ireland and his Irish citizenship and seems to want to change it if he could.

Now if you had bothered to read his posts you prob would have figured that out yourself..;)

partyguinness

RiverWilde wrote: »

Rejoining the Commonwealth isn't a bad idea.

Maybe Southern Ireland will actually grow up a bit and stop behaving like a spoilt child.

Riv

So would you care to elaborate? or are you just reverting to ad hominem..

now who is the child?:rolleyes:

partyguinness

Bond-007 wrote: »

It will be handy for when Cameron pulls the UK (and Biffo follows) out of the EU.
And the Commonwealth Games.

Mate this is 2009 not 1989..you are about 20 years behind the time..

Britain is more dependent on the EU than ever before and its only a matter of time before they join the Eurozone. The dogs on the street know it but nobody has the balls to say it in public..Britain is practically begging the EU (Germany in particular) to bail it out of the spending frenzy and debt it was got itself into (Ireland is in the same boat)..its just plain pig headed stubborness that is keeping Britain out at the moment..

(For the record I spend quiet a lot of time in London working..financial and legal sector)

partyguinness

Bond-007 wrote: »

Not possible. If you can tell me of a country that would grant citizenship easily I would like to know.

If you are good at cross country running apply to Holland/Turkey or Denmark. They will welcome you with open arms.:D

Nodin

Soldie wrote: »

the Commonwealth seeks to promote individual liberty, egalitarianism, free-trade, multilateralism, world peace, a rejection of international coercion, eradication of disease and poverty, among other things.

Pakistan. India in Kashmir. Britains failure, despite the wishes of the commonwealth, to pursue sanctions against Apartheid South Africa. Etc and so on.

Fratton Fred

partyguinness wrote: »

The EU is the place to be not some clap trap post colonial institution to make the Brits feel a bit better about themselves after the ungrateful heathen turned on them.

Can anyone give one good reason why Ireland should join the Commonwealth?

As for reassuring Unionsists? Thats laughable..reassuring them of what exactly?

So what, we should give up our National identity to placate a small minority on this Island (and lets not even get into how they got here in the first place)...lol..and what do Unionists do to "reassure" us?

Giving them 1/3 of the Tricolour is enough for me thank you very much.

Why exactly would Ireland be giving up its national identity? are you suggesting India or Nigeria have then?

You might want to find out a bit about the commonwealth before you are so flippant about it.

partyguinness wrote: »

Britain is more dependent on the EU than ever before and its only a matter of time before they join the Eurozone. The dogs on the street know it but nobody has the balls to say it in public..Britain is practically begging the EU (Germany in particular) to bail it out of the spending frenzy and debt it was got itself into (Ireland is in the same boat)..its just plain pig headed stubborness that is keeping Britain out at the moment..

Really? the traders I am working with think that Britain not being in the euro is the only thing keeping it going, especially considering all the EU countries that ****ed up their economies would be coming cap in hand (again) to Britain if it were in the eurozone.

thebman

Bond-007 wrote: »

Not possible. If you can tell me of a country that would grant citizenship easily I would like to know.

We are in the EU, you can go work in Britain without seeking a visa for the required number of years and apply for citizenship through the relvent means they have available.

This is way easier than getting citizenship in most non-EU countries and is easy relative to these other systems.

Wanting Ireland to join the Commonwealth because you couldn't be bothered to follow the procedure to gain citizenship in that country is not a good enough reason for me to say we should join the Commonwealth.

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

Pakistan. India in Kashmir. Britains failure, despite the wishes of the commonwealth, to pursue sanctions against Apartheid South Africa. Etc and so on.

what's that got to do with anything?

gurramok

Remove Queen Elizabeth as Head of the British Commonwealth!

I'd rather be in a 'European Commonwealth' than a British one as after all, we are more European than British.

Erin Go Brath

Soldie wrote: »

Today is Commonwealth day - the annual celebration of the Commonwealth. It has been 60 years since the formation of the Commonwealth in its current form, and 60 years since Ireland left it upon becoming a republic. According to the Singapore (1971) and Harare (1991) declarations, the Commonwealth seeks to promote individual liberty, egalitarianism, free-trade, multilateralism, world peace, a rejection of international coercion, eradication of disease and poverty, among other things. Should Ireland consider rejoining the Commonwealth and why or why not?

No we shouldn't join. The Irish people will never agree. We fought to get away from the union with Britain. It would be a regressive step to jump back into bed with them.

partyguinness

Nodin wrote: »

Pakistan. India in Kashmir. Britains failure, despite the wishes of the commonwealth, to pursue sanctions against Apartheid South Africa. Etc and so on.

One word...Zimbabwe

The Commonwealth continues to shower itself in full regal glory...:):)

Do the illegal invasions of foreign countires i.e. Iraq, Afganistan consitute the "the rejection of international coercion":)

God bless the Brits..they are certainly good for a laugh..lol