disgusting behaviour of traffic corp jeep

stratos

I was driving on the M50 the other morning in what was the driving lane but becomes the middle lane as the junction before Finglas merges. There is now 3 lanes and as I was now in the middle and wanted to exit at finglas, I was waiting for a car actually obeying the 60 kmh limit to go by and I was going to slip in behind him.

A fast moving vehicle joined onto the carriageway flying up the Finglas lane at well over the limit. The morning traffic was quite heavy. I stayed where I was to see what would happen next as the vehicle was a garda traffic jeep.

It tore up behind the car which was moving at lawful speed, I was expecting it to light its blue lights and blow past but no. In a disgusting display of hooliganism they tailgated the driver by inches and harried him all the way to the exit where they passed him on the exit and tore up the N2.

They obviously were not on an emergency call just bullying behaviour, absolutly disgusting and dangerous behaviour from those supposed to be setting an example. they had absolutly no regard for the safety of the driver in front of them.

Maybe I should not be suprised by this but I was brought up to respect the police but these guys were just hooligans.

Rowley Birkin QC

stratos wrote: »

.


They obviously were not on an emergency call just bullying behaviour, absolutly disgusting and dangerous behaviour from those supposed to be setting an example. they had absolutly no regard for the safety of the driver in front of them.

And you know this how exactly??

stratos

If they had been on an emergency call they would have used their blue lights, or flashed their headlights. This was just bullying driving for no reason.

To be honest even if they had their blue lights on and were on a call, it was still dangerous driving, there is no excuse for tailgating, a garda will tell you that.

Henry Ford III

Did you get the jeep reg. and report the incident? Apart from getting it off your chest posting details of it here will achieve very little unfortunately.

There's no excuse for such driving btw.

david

Garda Traffic Corps are fully trained to drive like this. How do you know they didn't flash if it was ahead of you? There's a specific procedure for getting cars to move which involves tailgating the right side of a vehicle and flashing at their wingmirror.

You cannot say they were not on an emergency call, blue lights make people panic/slam on the brakes as they assume they've done something wrong.

I wouldn't envy a job in the Traffic Corps, anything that makes their job easier/our roads safer gets my full support even if it is tailgating to get past a vehicle quickly.

Mr.Diagnostic

david wrote: »

Garda Traffic Corps are fully trained to drive like this.

Are you sure of that?

Maybe the situation has changed, but a few years ago the majority of Garda drivers were not trained at all.

ArphaRima

You actually drive at 60kph on the M50!? haha

Most flouted speed limit in the country.

Sids Not

On rule for them................

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/respecting-other-road-users/other-road-users_emergency-services-vehicles.html

El Guapo!

Theres no way anybody can stick up for the Garda in this situation. If the driver in front had've panicked then there could've been a serious accident. Just because they put on a uniform in the morning they think they can do what they want when they want. I for one have lost just about all respect for the majority of the Garda that I have come across. And I've often seen Garda talking on the phone while driving, throwing smoke butts out the window, demolishing the speed limit for no reason etc. Things that they would enjoy doing someone else for. Its about time they got their act together and done their job properly rather than abusing it.

Mossy Monk

Dean09 wrote: »

I've often seen Garda talking on the phone while driving

Aren't Gardaí, ambulance drivers etc. allowed to talk on their mobiles while driving?

El Guapo!

Aren't Gardaí, ambulance drivers etc. allowed to talk on their mobiles while driving?[/quote]

Maybe so, but I think its only for emergencies. And when the Garda is laughing and joking on the phone while driving (above the speed limit by the way) I dont think this counts as an emergency!!

therecklessone

david wrote: »

Garda Traffic Corps are fully trained to drive like this. How do you know they didn't flash if it was ahead of you? There's a specific procedure for getting cars to move which involves tailgating the right side of a vehicle and flashing at their wingmirror.

And the general public is supposed to know the meaning of that how?

They could use the universally understood procedure of activating their lights/siren, the "procedure" you mentioned above sounds like intimidation to me.

Henry Ford III

david wrote: »

Garda Traffic Corps are fully trained to drive like this.....

No amount of training will prevent a crash if they were tailgating inches behind the other car, which suddenly hits the brakes.

Unless perhaps the tutors in Templemore include a module on "Spidey Senses"

timmywex

Gardai are fully trained in this procedure.

Members of the emergency services are exempt from most road traffic laws in the courswe of their duties, that includes mobiles, so there is no problem about using them when driving!

Thirdly, were you listening to the garda radio to know it was not a hot response?! Most garda calls dont require blue lights but require assistance fairly fast, a garda doesnt have to use blue lights/sirens when on an emergency callout. If youve ever travelled under blur lights/sirens, you would realise that doing this procedure is a lot safer than having blue's on in a motorway situation with heavyish traffic!

Sids Not

timmywex wrote: »

Gardai are fully trained in this procedure.
If youve ever travelled under blur lights/sirens, you would realise that doing this procedure is a lot safer than having blue's on in a motorway situation with heavyish traffic!

Anyone else confused..............:o

AugustusMaximus

I despise people on this forum who will stick up for Gardai no matter what they do.

A few stuck up for Gardai who were driving at night without any light on at all. Others for a Garda car who drove contra flow down the overtaking lane on the Cork South Ring road.

I don't care how good a drivers some people think Gardai are (they are only human and loads are driving on a Superintendents exemption) they shouldn't tailgate a person. What purpose does this serve ? It makes no sense and could have caused an accident for no reason.

But hey, tailgate away. Sure Gardai naturally have better reflexes than the ordinary human to stop them from ploughing into the car in front. Sure they won't be blamed for the accident anyways.

galwaytt

timmywex wrote: »

Gardai are fully trained in this procedure.

Members of the emergency services are exempt from most road traffic laws in the courswe of their duties, that includes mobiles, so there is no problem about using them when driving!

Thirdly, were you listening to the garda radio to know it was not a hot response?! Most garda calls dont require blue lights but require assistance fairly fast, a garda doesnt have to use blue lights/sirens when on an emergency callout. If youve ever travelled under blur lights/sirens, you would realise that doing this procedure is a lot safer than having blue's on in a motorway situation with heavyish traffic!

I'm not convinced about that 'training', if you're saying they're trained to intimidate.......

And you are incorrect, they are not exempt from Road Traffic Law - they are only excepted from certain things under 'blues & twos'. This is the indication to other traffic that they have priority, and in those circumstances you, as member of the public, are required to yield to them. You are not required or obliged, and, as we see in this case, safety does not permit, to do so under any other circumstance. If this this was not the case, there'd be no need to fit blues to any emergency vehicle, and the Rules of the Road would tell us to yield on foot of 'flashing headlights 6" from your bumper':rolleyes:....which is patently not so.........

Savman

Silly move by the Traffic Corps, but the OP's mistake here is assuming the driver of that jeep is some kind of infallible creature who is better than us mere mortals in every way.

There'll always be a few eejits in every job.

ART6

It would be interesting to see what response the OP would get if this post was placed in the Emergency Services forum. There serving Guards might comment and say if they think tailgating is responsible or not? Personally I don't give a s**t how well trained the tailgater is, since the victim might not be so well equipped. Tailgating is dangerous and irresponsible driving. End of.

L1011

Sids Not wrote: »

Anyone else confused..............:o

Blues scare people in to making silly manoeuvres.

11811

Only a fool breaks the two second rule. - isn't that what we are told about tailgating?
Even if it was permissible, the Traffic Corps should lead by example and not drive like this. Would you see an ambulance do this?

sdanseo

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

I despise people on this forum who will stick up for Gardai no matter what they do.

And I despise people who give out about them, no matter what they do.

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

A few stuck up for Gardai who were driving at night without any light on at all. Others for a Garda car who drove contra flow down the overtaking lane on the Cork South Ring road.

Which they shouldn't be doing without a reason. If you can prove they didn't have one, fine. Report them or complain on here by all means. Unlikely as it may be, they could have been trailing a speeder etc, and by keeping close to the car in front the suspect doesn't see them. As for driving contra-flow, I'd love to hear the reason for it but I just don't see why anyone would do something like that without a very valid excuse. There's lazy driving, or bad driving which in fairness we are ALL guilty of....and then there's sheer lunacy.

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

I don't care how good a drivers some people think Gardai are (they are only human and loads are driving on a Superintendents exemption) they shouldn't tailgate a person. What purpose does this serve ? It makes no sense and could have caused an accident for no reason.

That's true about the Chief's permission, and clearly better training is needed there. But the traffic corps (who were driving the jeep in question, apparently) are a specialist unit dealing purely with traffic as a rule, iirc.

Again I've provided a possible explanation for tailgating, but of course if they were in the wrong then nobody should stick up for them and I don't think anyone would debate that. At the end of the day though, as you say below: they're human.

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

But hey, tailgate away. Sure Gardai naturally have better reflexes than the ordinary human to stop them from ploughing into the car in front. Sure they won't be blamed for the accident anyways.

They should be setting an example yes, and it's unacceptable to drive dangerously - but like you so aptly put it, they are human, and no human is infallable. Are you saying you have never, ever tailgated someone? So it's not good driving, and they shouldn't be let away with it. But the problem here is that while an ordinary motorist might get a €60 fine for this stuff, a Garda would be sacked or stopped from driving. Not really fitting punishment. Certainly I couldn't report someone for that sort of thing unless they were seriously at risk of causing an accident.

dolittle

Originally Posted by timmywex
Gardai are fully trained in this procedure.

not all are trained some drive under what is known as "captains licence", i think thats what its called anyway

DublinWriter

timmywex wrote: »

Gardai are fully trained in this procedure.

Very few guards have actually done the Advanced Driving Course and most drive on "Chief's Permission" and a regular driving licence.

timmywex wrote: »

Members of the emergency services are exempt from most road traffic laws in the courswe of their duties, that includes mobiles, so there is no problem about using them when driving!

If it is a "business call", then why are they using their mobile and not their their radio?

alpina

And once again....

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Did you get the jeep reg. and report the incident? Apart from getting it off your chest posting details of it here will achieve very little unfortunately.

donvito99

stratos wrote: »

I was driving on the M50 the other morning in what was the driving lane but becomes the middle lane as the junction before Finglas merges. There is now 3 lanes and as I was now in the middle and wanted to exit at finglas, I was waiting for a car actually obeying the 60 kmh limit to go by and I was going to slip in behind him.

A fast moving vehicle joined onto the carriageway flying up the Finglas lane at well over the limit. The morning traffic was quite heavy. I stayed where I was to see what would happen next as the vehicle was a garda traffic jeep.

It tore up behind the car which was moving at lawful speed, I was expecting it to light its blue lights and blow past but no. In a disgusting display of hooliganism they tailgated the driver by inches and harried him all the way to the exit where they passed him on the exit and tore up the N2.

They obviously were not on an emergency call just bullying behaviour, absolutly disgusting and dangerous behaviour from those supposed to be setting an example. they had absolutly no regard for the safety of the driver in front of them.

Maybe I should not be suprised by this but I was brought up to respect the police but these guys were just hooligans.

How do you not know if they were following a vehicle that had commied an offence and did not want to draw any due attention to themselves?

Gardai are exempt from the rules of the road.

donvito99

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

But hey, tailgate away. Sure Gardai naturally have better reflexes than the ordinary human to stop them from ploughing into the car in front. Sure they won't be blamed for the accident anyways.

They would, if they'd have done the course. Most members of the Traffic Corps would have the standard course done.

Scottie99

timmywex wrote: »

Most garda calls dont require blue lights but require assistance fairly fast, a garda doesnt have to use blue lights/sirens when on an emergency callout.

Yes, but if they want to pass as a specific slow moving car they shouldn't be harassing the car in front. Flashing lights and siren should be sufficient!

spiderpig101

donvito99 wrote: »

How do you not know if they were following a vehicle that had commied an offence and did not want to draw any due attention to themselves?

Gardai are exempt from the rules of the road.

I think you'll find there only allowed to do so in a emergency, and they must you the blues in a emergency.

timmywex

Gardai are exempt from most traffic law in the course of their duty.

They do not have to use blues and twos to be exempt.

Lights and sirens are only to warn other road users really

Gardai dont have to reposnd to an emergency on blue lights, likewise, mosrt ambulance calls arent responded to on blue lights.

Most gardai do have the advanced course done, there is a significant minority however that are on chiefs license. At that though, nearly if not all traffic corps have advanced course done.

And to the person who said about using the radios, it easily could have been about a case or person. The radio is only for calls/requests etc. The garda radio is useless, unsecure, breaks down alot and a mobile phone is nearly essential! (And yes i know tetra radios are being rolled out, but there are very very few cars fitted with them)

dubtom

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Aren't Gardaí, ambulance drivers etc. allowed to talk on their mobiles while driving?

If they are they shouldn't be. We,joe public,are told that THE most dangerous thing you can do while driving is use a mobile, texting being even more dangerous. Are we supposed to believe that the gardai and ambulance drivers are trained to such a high degree that it's not dangerous when they do it?
I undserstood that passengers where there to use the radio and phones,not the driver.

Saab Ed

They were probably on their way to this incident

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7IQNRfiqd0

imeddyhobbs

timmywex wrote: »

Gardai are fully trained in this procedure.

Members of the emergency services are exempt from most road traffic laws in the courswe of their duties, that includes mobiles, so there is no problem about using them when driving!

Thirdly, were you listening to the garda radio to know it was not a hot response?! Most garda calls dont require blue lights but require assistance fairly fast, a garda doesnt have to use blue lights/sirens when on an emergency callout. If youve ever travelled under blur lights/sirens, you would realise that doing this procedure is a lot safer than having blue's on in a motorway situation with heavyish traffic!

Thats all health and safety laws out the window so far,got anything else?

klaus23

timmywex wrote: »

Gardai are exempt from most traffic law in the course of their duty.

Ah now I understand why they occasionally kill pedestrians and get detected for drink-driving without being dismissed from the force.

While I accept some of what you are saying as correct, tailgaiting is inexcusable. I had my brother film a Traffic Corps Jeep tailgaiting us a few years back between Bundoran and Cliffony. I was sitting at 60, and he was within a few foot of my bumper. We submitted the footage, complete with numberplate and clear video of the driver to the Garda Ombudsman, only to hear nothing back.

Gardai participating in traffic should be setting an example first and foremost, not abusing their privilege.

AugustusMaximus

donvito99 wrote: »

They would, if they'd have done the course. Most members of the Traffic Corps would have the standard course done.

If you are tailgating and if the person in front slams on the breaks, it might be humanly impossible not to plough into the car in front. Please explain how the standard course will prevent a crash in this situation.

Does the standard course decrease reaction times ? Must be some course.

AugustusMaximus

dubtom wrote: »

If they are they shouldn't be. We,joe public,are told that THE most dangerous thing you can do while driving is use a mobile, texting being even more dangerous. Are we supposed to believe that the gardai and ambulance drivers are trained to such a high degree that it's not dangerous when they do it?
I undserstood that passengers where there to use the radio and phones,not the driver.

This of course is insanity. For the sake of a 100 Euros, every Squad car should be fitted with a bluetooth system to ensure they don't have to have a hand on their phone.

Do Gardai learn to drive while making a mobile phone call as part of this "standard course".

Voodoomelon

Garda car was right up my arse about an hour ago in Dundalk, because I was doing 50 on a road that cars normally do 70 at night on, I thought I better keep to the limit. They don't half make it hard for you to do so...

TheNog

OP

You are right in saying its a very dangerous and shouldnt really be done.

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

Are you sure of that?

Maybe the situation has changed, but a few years ago the majority of Garda drivers were not trained at all.

There is approx 2500 drivers in the country who have no training to drive (me included unfortunately). It was to be rectified with the building of a new driving school outisde of Templemore but apparently the Office of Public Works does not have €5 million to complete the works.

Dean09 wrote: »

And I've often seen Garda talking on the phone while driving,

Again we are allowed to drive while using the phone. Not wise to do but sometimes it is quite necessary. The reason being the whole radio thingy. Will be sorted out by end of next year hopefully.

Dean09 wrote: »

throwing smoke butts out the window,

Now thats illegal littering.

Dean09 wrote: »

demolishing the speed limit for no reason etc.

Again we can do it and sometimes do but only for life/death situations.

Dean09 wrote: »

Things that they would enjoy doing someone else for.

Any guard who likes to prosecute people (for minor things) is an ass and would not be liked by most members.

galwaytt wrote: »

I'm not convinced about that 'training', if you're saying they're trained to intimidate.......

And you are incorrect, they are not exempt from Road Traffic Law - they are only excepted from certain things under 'blues & twos'. This is the indication to other traffic that they have priority, and in those circumstances you, as member of the public, are required to yield to them. You are not required or obliged, and, as we see in this case, safety does not permit, to do so under any other circumstance. If this this was not the case, there'd be no need to fit blues to any emergency vehicle, and the Rules of the Road would tell us to yield on foot of 'flashing headlights 6" from your bumper':rolleyes:....which is patently not so.........

Not true. We are exempt from general bye-laws but only to a point. The hard and fast rule is not to put other people at risk. An example would be I could drive at 120kph on a 80kph road as long as I am not putting the general public at severe risk by doing so. If I did drive recklessly then I can be prosecuted for dangerous driving.
Also blues and twos doesnt give us any extra exemptions under the Road Traffic Acts

dolittle wrote: »

Originally Posted by timmywex
Gardai are fully trained in this procedure.

not all are trained some drive under what is known as "captains licence", i think thats what its called anyway

Dolittle you should probably stop listening to the animals

Its called "Chiefs" or "Chiefs permission".

DublinWriter wrote: »

Very few guards have actually done the Advanced Driving Course and most drive on "Chief's Permission" and a regular driving licence.


If it is a "business call", then why are they using their mobile and not their their radio?

Actually quite a few have done the Advanced Driving course. All Traffic Corps must have the Advanced Driving done before they can drive the TC cars. See Chiefs will only allow guards to drive up to and including 2L cars. Everything above that, jeeps/vans, included require you to have the basic training done which I think is up to 2.5L, The Advanced allows you to drive the 3L and upwards cars.

imeddyhobbs wrote: »

Thats all health and safety laws out the window so far,got anything else?

Yes unfortunately Health and Saftey Laws dont apply to us. If it did we couldnt do our job in fear of us getting hurt. we do have a duty of care to the public which should be reflected in our driving.

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

If you are tailgating and if the person in front slams on the breaks, it might be humanly impossible not to plough into the car in front. Please explain how the standard course will prevent a crash in this situation.

Does the standard course decrease reaction times ? Must be some course.

The course itself doesnt make you super-human but it does allow you more time to react quicker through better reading the road far better than you or I can do.

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

This of course is insanity. For the sake of a 100 Euros, every Squad car should be fitted with a bluetooth system to ensure they don't have to have a hand on their phone.

Do Gardai learn to drive while making a mobile phone call as part of this "standard course".

When did you ever hear the Government has common sense?

Bluetooths are the way forward but will never happen.

On one side they say we can use our phones then they say dont use the phones unless you absolutely have to and when you do have to use it and crash they will nail you to the floor.

The reason for this?

To make us buy our own bluetooth. Catch 22 with the guard caught in the middle.

stratos

Reading with interest all the replies, Just to add some comments. I don't think any amount of training allows you to tailgate. If the car in front braked heavily the jeep would have shunted it, possibly into traffic in the other two lanes. Possibly another car in an adjacent lane would cut up the harried driver and cause him to brake, how would any amount of training help here.

I know this post achieves nothing but I was so disgusted I did need to get it off my chest.

I was thinking was if they shunt this car into the traffic in front of me and there is a pile up . How dare they endanger me and the drivers around me.

I know they are only human and I can forgive mistakes but this was prolonged bullying and intimidation of another driver. Someone here said it "really shouldn't be done" the word "really" here allows tacit approval of this style of driving. This type of driving should NEVER be done, though I think it was a garda, so thats okay then.

The same poster said the course gave the garda driver better reaction times, well a mechanical failure at this distance could have fatal consequences how could a course train you to recognise future mechanical failures.

I have never seen an emergency vehicle drive like this before and I would only have praise for our boys in blue normally. anyway as more than one person has said it achieves nothing griping about it here. Rant over, thanks for listening.

deaglan169

from what i was told emergency vehicles be it fire ambulance or garda are only except from rules of the road while under blues & twos and wasnt the whole idea of two gardai in a car so the one in the passenger seat can operate the radio and use phone so that the driver can concentrate on driving

Big Wave

timmywex wrote: »

They do not have to use blues and twos to be exempt.

What are 'twos'?

Anan1

Sirens.

timmywex

deaglan169 wrote: »

from what i was told emergency vehicles be it fire ambulance or garda are only except from rules of the road while under blues & twos and wasnt the whole idea of two gardai in a car so the one in the passenger seat can operate the radio and use phone so that the driver can concentrate on driving

No, they are always exempt, as the nog said, blues/twos give no extra powers under road traffic law!

That would be the general idea in a high speed chase/call out r whatever yes

snollup

I'm sorry but walk around the city any day and you will see the gards breaking the rules of the road. It's sickening. I am sure at times what they are doing is justified but I cannot believe this is the case most of the time. They should lead by example. And reporting them achieves nothing, I've tried it three times and never heard anything back.

Type 17

RSA Website wrote:

"Garda, fire brigade vehicles or ambulances and other emergency vehicles can be exempt from some of the road traffic law as long as this does not put other road users in danger."

(My bold above)

This exemption allows stuff like turning right where other traffic is barred from doing so, parking on double-yellows/the pavement etc, where having to abide by the rules would lead to time being wasted going around the block to turn right elsewhere, looking for a place to park etc, but tailgating, cutting corners*, not using indicators, etc, is simply pathetic and needs to be stamped out in all drivers (not just Gardai).

The Gardai will never be taken seriously as a traffic-policing force until they get their own house in order.

*I've had to brake to avoid being run into a traffic island by a marked car.

seclachi

sdonn_1 wrote: »

They should be setting an example yes, and it's unacceptable to drive dangerously - but like you so aptly put it, they are human, and no human is infallable. Are you saying you have never, ever tailgated someone? So it's not good driving, and they shouldn't be let away with it. But the problem here is that while an ordinary motorist might get a €60 fine for this stuff, a Garda would be sacked or stopped from driving. Not really fitting punishment. Certainly I couldn't report someone for that sort of thing unless they were seriously at risk of causing an accident.

Firstly, im sure any gardai gets due process when complaints against them are considered. Secondly, anybody who endangers anybody else at a place of work is liable for instant dismissal, certainly thats the case in many pharma plants where i have worked. I dont see how its any different for a gardai, just because theres some crap drivers out there doesnt give them an excuse to drive like them. Moreover, a professional who is expected to drive in extraordinary conditions should be careful and attentive when driving normally.

As an aside, i think some people do join the gardai just for the powertrip, and it wouldnt surpise me that the same kind of person would think tailgating is fine. It annoys me that so many people think its fine too just because there gardai, they should of course be exempt from driving laws when need arises, but they shouldnt abuse the power. And no, I dont have a big chip on my sholder about the gardai, most I have met seemed really decent.

donvito99

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

If you are tailgating and if the person in front slams on the breaks, it might be humanly impossible not to plough into the car in front. Please explain how the standard course will prevent a crash in this situation.

Does the standard course decrease reaction times ? Must be some course.

I was referring to your point about,

Sure Gardai naturally have better reflexes than the ordinary human to stop them from ploughing into the car in front.

I am in no way suggesting that gardai natuarally have better refexes (:D), but they would have better driving skills then regular motorists. I accept that the Gardai on this occasion were completely out of order, but they may have been on their way to an emergency, and this may have been the best procedure to pass the motorist in this case, even if it means tailgating.

Before you slate me as to why they were not using blue lights and/or sirens, it is not always necessary to do so.

Big Wave

Big Wave wrote: »

What are 'twos'?

Anan1 wrote: »

Sirens.

Why are they called that?

Alun

Big Wave wrote: »

Why are they called that?

Because traditionally they were two-tone horns, dee-dah, dee-dah etc.

Anan1

Big Wave wrote: »

Why are they called that?

Because it rhymes with 'blues'?:)

CharlieCroker

Big Wave wrote: »

Why are they called that?

Blue's and two's. It's an old expression.
Blues are obviously the lights.
Two's are 'cos sirens are 2 tone