Shooting in NI army base

Pride Fighter

Some people, possibly dissident republicans have shot dead 2 soldiers at an army base in NI http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7930837.stm



Bloody hell, not this crap again. The perpetrators should be shot, scum like them are ruining the peace for the majority who despise their illegal actions.

Thoughts??

sylvestersuntan

Thats probably what the guys who shot the soldiers were thinking as they drove up to the army barracks.

Those are my thoughts on your post.

Pride Fighter wrote: »

The perpetrators should be shot, scum like them are ruining the peace for the majority who despise their illegal actions.

Thoughts??

Pride Fighter

sylvestersuntan wrote: »

Thats probably what the guys who shot the soldiers were thinking as they drove up to the army barracks.

Those are my thoughts on your post.

You joined to post that, brilliant:rolleyes:

allthedoyles

Wasn't it only yesterday that the Police Chief in NI said that the threat from Nationalists was at at an all time high ?

There you go ..........he was right

gurramok

allthedoyles wrote: »

Wasn't it only yesterday that the Police Chief in NI said that the threat from Nationalists was at at an all time high ?

There you go ..........he was right

Wrong. Threat from Dissident Republicans was at an all time high. Nice of you to label hundreds of thousands of people as terrorists.:mad:

It's a co-incidence in timing that this happens just a couple of days after his warning. The first British soldiers to die since 1997, lets hope its not going to descend into tit-for-tat attacks, no-one wants that living up there.

Dannyboy83

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Thoughts??

Any nationalists caught shooting anyone should be executed by the Irish government.
And unionists caught shooting anyone should be executed by the British government.

Anyone showing any support for hostility on either side should be publicy humiliated, publicy analy violated without lubricant and jettisoned over the Afghani/Pakistani border wearing the Rocky/Apollo Creed US boxer shorts and an "I love Bush" t-shirt.

To be honest, I would have suspected the scumbags would go back to their old games when the money well dried up.
They probably can't flog too many drugs and the banks don't have any money to steal, so they'll just go back to killing each other.

I doubt there has been any political aspirations for a long, long time.
They're just failed criminals, hiding beneath labels.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I doubt there has been any political aspirations for a long, long time.
They're just failed criminals, hiding beneath labels.

If only, theres certainly a hardcore there not happy about the status quo. I personally hope the British government take a VERY hard line on this, otherwise there'l be loyalists to fill in.

marco murphy

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Any nationalists caught shooting anyone should be executed by the Irish government.
And unionists caught shooting anyone should be executed by the British government.

Anyone showing any support for hostility on either side should be publicy humiliated, publicy analy violated without lubricant and jettisoned over the Afghani/Pakistani border wearing the Rocky/Apollo Creed US boxer shorts and an "I love Bush" t-shirt.

To be honest, I would have suspected the scumbags would go back to their old games when the money well dried up.
They probably can't flog too many drugs and the banks don't have any money to steal, so they'll just go back to killing each other.

I doubt there has been any political aspirations for a long, long time.
They're just failed criminals, hiding beneath labels.

Who? What drugs?
We have very little facts at the moment and this is all very fishy, so I wouldn't be throwing any sort of crap together just to call it a post.

luckyfrank

One hopes the security forces dont over-react to this that is excatly what these dissidents want

I would have thought that the british security forces would have had some mole somewhere to prevent attacks like this

Shame i hope these people are caught they have no support apart from there own twisted friends who share there twisted ideolgy

dresden8

luckyfrank wrote: »

I would have thought that the british security forces would have had some mole somewhere to prevent attacks like this

That'd make a change. They usually have a mole who causes attacks like this.

mike65

Looking forward to Sinn Feins response, it'll tell us a bit about where they are.

purple'n'gold

For starters I do wish the media would stop calling terrorists and murderers “dissident republicans” or “paramilitaries”. All the resources of the state, both north and south should be brought to bear to root out and apprehend these criminals, and if they are shot and killed resisting arrest, so much the better.

ionix5891

SF Gerry Adams calls these attacks "wrong and counter-productive" and will not receive "support" according to BBC news there

oh dear seems like the right hand doesn't know what the left one is doing :mad:

i want to make it clear to SF that every murder they and their criminal cronies dogs are involved in will not be forgotten

fracking scumbags i am absolutely sickened

ivelostthewill

does the last poster know the difference between republican and DISSIDENT republican :rolleyes:

Lord Trollington

SF has come out and condemned these murders the same as every other political party in Ireland/UK.
There is more behind these killings than meets the eye. There hasnt been a murder of a british soldier since 97. Why now, all of a sudden. No warning.
No outbreak of violence, or rioting which led to these killings.
There is nothing to be gained from killing british soldiers, remember these lads are only in it now for their own gain, not for the "cause". These are criminals linking themselves to PIRA or disadents for political reasons, to be treated differently to ordinary criminals.
i dont think we should jump to conclusions until we hear more information on the possible perpertrators of this brutle act.
Actually why this is actually in th epolitics section is questionable...

nij

Perhaps it was a loyalist group. Think about it.

Nodin

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Any nationalists caught shooting anyone should be executed by the Irish government.
And unionists caught shooting anyone should be executed by the British government..

...because if nothing else, Irish history shows how executing people quiets everything down.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

To be honest, (....)labels.

This is nothing to do with the Provisionals.

ionix5891 wrote:

want to make it clear to SF that every murder they and their criminal cronies dogs are involved in will not be forgotten

fracking scumbags i am absolutely sickened .

As above.

yoshytoshy

nij wrote: »

Perhaps it was a loyalist group. Think about it.

I was thinking along them lines myself ,sinn fein are doing well for the first time in a long time.

But it was a theory ,so I presume it belongs in the theory forum

OhNoYouDidn't

ionix5891 wrote: »

SF Gerry Adams calls these attacks "wrong and counter-productive" and will not receive "support" according to BBC news there

oh dear seems like the right hand doesn't know what the left one is doing :mad:

i want to make it clear to SF that every murder they and their criminal cronies dogs are involved in will not be forgotten

fracking scumbags i am absolutely sickened

this is as much an attack of SF and their peace strategy as it is the Brits.

are the mods asleep? they are quick wnough to take down allegations of FF links to crime

Voodoo_Chile

whycliff wrote: »

SF has come out and condemned these murders the same as every other political party in Ireland/UK.
There is more behind these killings than meets the eye. There hasnt been a murder of a british soldier since 97. Why now, all of a sudden. No warning.
No outbreak of violence, or rioting which led to these killings.
There is nothing to be gained from killing british soldiers, remember these lads are only in it now for their own gain, not for the "cause". These are criminals linking themselves to PIRA or disadents for political reasons, to be treated differently to ordinary criminals.
i dont think we should jump to conclusions until we hear more information on the possible perpertrators of this brutle act.
Actually why this is actually in th epolitics section is questionable...

I'm assuming you're one of those people who believe 9/11 is some massive conspiracy/cover up?
Isn't it infinitly more likely that two drunken idiots,pining for the old time decided to start something. **** like this doesn't have to have more of a reason then access to fire arms and a distorted world view and looking at this as some Loyalist attempt to reignite the troubles is insane.

sceptre

ionix5891 wrote: »

i want to make it clear to SF that every murder they and their criminal cronies dogs are involved in will not be forgotten

I'm sure they won't. Unless you've got a pertinent link[1] to this attack, stop flinging mud. It doesn't become you.


[1]That's an actual link, not a hyperlink


And Voodoo_Chile, don't be treading water on the insulting posters line (first part of your last post). That's not particularly admirable when we consider the politics charter either.

OhNoYouDidn't, you can report posts rather than making moderation comments. Given the three infractions you've picked up on this board, I would have at least hoped you'd have finally read the charter and be aware of that.

Civility, people. It's easy if you try. Carry on in an on-topic way.

fitz0

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I was thinking along them lines myself ,sinn fein are doing well for the first time in a long time.

But it was a theory ,so I presume it belongs in the theory forum

Its all a conspiracy!:eek:

In fairness though its all a bit fishy. The timing is too good , Orde announces that threat levels are at an all time high, the sas are called in and now this? Im not sure that all is as it seems. Has anyone claimed the attack? Or better yet has anyone denied it?

Offy

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Some people, possibly dissident republicans have shot dead 2 soldiers at an army base in NI http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7930837.stm



Bloody hell, not this crap again. The perpetrators should be shot, scum like them are ruining the peace for the majority who despise their illegal actions.

Thoughts??

My thoughts: two wrongs dont make a right. One killing leads to two killings lead to three killings lead to four killings......................

FTA69

This has certainly put a cat amongst the pigeons so to speak, although this was on the cards for a long time. I'm watching Sky News there now and all the Brit politicians are having kittens over it. Personally I don't think such attacks are going to achieve anything to be honest, it's a battle of ideas that needs to be won, stiffing a couple of Brits every couple of months isn't going to alter anything.

mike65

fitz0 wrote: »

Its all a conspiracy!:eek:

In fairness though its all a bit fishy. The timing is too good , Orde announces that threat levels are at an all time high, the sas are called in and now this? Im not sure that all is as it seems. Has anyone claimed the attack? Or better yet has anyone denied it?

What would the point of the conspiracy be?

yoshytoshy

mike65 wrote: »

What would the point of the conspiracy be?

Sinn fein are gaining popularity and they might actually get out on the world circuit of politics.

Loyalists feel lonely because northern ireland is becoming more and more Irish.

fitz0

mike65 wrote: »

What would the point of the conspiracy be?

No idea, don't really care either. It just sounds fishy to me. Maybe unionists did it to alienate republican communities because they fear british withdrawal from the north as a result of this economic crisis.. Maybe the republicans did it so that the british would think the north costs too much and would pull out. Maybe the british did it as an excuse to bring back the sas and crack down on dissidents. I don't know and Im not too worried.

lostexpectation

adams has said cooperate with the police, and go to them if you see criminality but has he said the same about the army?

Euro_Kraut

Just when we thought things could not get any worse in this country. This story is being reported right around the world. Its going to be a tough St Patricks Day for us. Awful tragedy for the families of the soldiers and pizza delivery men.

To those calling for executions: I understand you are angry, but our constitution forbids capital punishment. We voted (by a large majority) on this a few years ago. The terrorists don't have much respect for Bunreacht na h-Eireann - but the rest of us should.

Tom65

mike65 wrote: »

Looking forward to Sinn Feins response, it'll tell us a bit about where they are.

McGuinness' response was quite interesting, he said ""I supported the IRA during the conflict, I myself was a member of the IRA but that war is over". He didn't seem to really condemn the fact that two British soldiers were killed, more that it wasn't the time to be killing British soldiers.

Offy

fitz0 wrote: »

No idea, don't really care either. It just sounds fishy to me. Maybe unionists did it to alienate republican communities because they fear british withdrawal from the north as a result of this economic crisis.. Maybe the republicans did it so that the british would think the north costs too much and would pull out. Maybe the british did it as an excuse to bring back the sas and crack down on dissidents. I don't know and Im not too worried.

It worries me a little. The most important question for me is 'who gains from the killing of British soldiers?'
With the 'war on terror' it seems like political suicide for the SF if it was the IRA. Their support would plummet. After the way they have build up their party it doesnt make sense for them to kill British soldiers.

fitz0

Are you implying that the only people who could have done this are the PIRA? I would highly doubt they are involved and therefore SF have zero culpability. I suppose we will have to wait and see who claims it and who denies it.

Offy

fitz0 wrote: »

Are you implying that the only people who could have done this are the PIRA? I would highly doubt they are involved and therefore SF have zero culpability. I suppose we will have to wait and see who claims it and who denies it.

What Im implying is that if it was SF/IRA it will really hurt their political standing, if you looks back at history fitz0 you will see that ceasefires have been broken by both SF/IRA AND the British government, Im not implying it was them either. Nor am I implying it was Loyalists. Im not implying anything but I would keep an open mind about any of those three groups. With the history of this anything is possible. Neither the IRA(INLA, PIRA, etc.), various Loyalist paramilitary or the British government are beyond murder and I include murdering their own in that statement.

brianthebard

I'm sure this won't be a popular opinion but whichever group was involved in these murders needs to be brought into talks as soon as possible. Cracking down with force will only lead to an escalation of violence and legitimisation of armed attacks. Whether any of the main political players are big enough to keep a cool head right now and look for a diplomatic response instead of a military one is hard to say.

nij

The more I think about it, the more I suspect Loyalist involvement. These kinds of things DO happen. I'd say Unionists feel that they are being swallowed up by Irish culture. There are Irish language programmes on BBC NI even! Ever see those low budget ads for Ulster Scots heritage events?

So, as someone else said - who has the most to gain by committing this act?

Tom65

brianthebard wrote: »

I'm sure this won't be a popular opinion but whichever group was involved in these murders needs to be brought into talks as soon as possible. Cracking down with force will only lead to an escalation of violence and legitimisation of armed attacks. Whether any of the main political players are big enough to keep a cool head right now and look for a diplomatic response instead of a military one is hard to say.

I don't think it's possible. Apart from being politically toxic, the republican splinter groups are so fragmented it'd be difficult to know who to talk to. I mean, even if there were talks with the Real IRA, there'd still be the CIRA and various other dissidents. I do agree though that there shouldn't be a heavy-handed crack down. Find the people responsible, put them on trial, and don't make a big show of it. Though the British government is unparalleled when it comes to make martyrs out of people.

bmaxi

This is a deliberate attempt to create a reaction and allow these scum to go back to their murder and mayhem.
Looked at logically, there is no reason for the Provos to do it, there is no reason for the security forces to do it, there is no reason for Loyalists to do it . Who does that leave?
The people who stand out most in my mind are those same people who carried out Omagh and there is no point in trying to engage their likes in rational debate, it has been tried before. Even the main body of the Provos had no influence on these guys, they are a law unto themselves. It needs to be realised that they are no friends of the Irish people. North or South, Nationalist or Loyalist.
Great efforts have been made over the last ten years to level the playing field in the North and these criminals are determined to dig it up again just for their own ends, they have seen their little fiefdoms whittled away and their activities curtailed. They are prepared to mount attacks on either side of the border and recently a PSNI officer was forced to flee from his home in the Republic.
So unless we want to go back to the days of checkpoints and armed military patrols, fortified barracks, listening posts and a wedge again being driven between our communities again, we must stand up to these thugs.

Bottle_of_Smoke

brianthebard wrote: »

I'm sure this won't be a popular opinion but whichever group was involved in these murders needs to be brought into talks as soon as possible. Cracking down with force will only lead to an escalation of violence and legitimisation of armed attacks. Whether any of the main political players are big enough to keep a cool head right now and look for a diplomatic response instead of a military one is hard to say.

These people won't accept ANYTHING but a 32 county republic. Thats not going to happen, so what would be the point of talks?

FTA69

The fact people here are suspecting Loyalists or the Provos demonstrates that some people here haven't a clue to be honest. To anyone following events over the past couple of years this attack won't come as a surprise at all. A few months back the Continuity IRA injured a number of soldiers in a rocket attack, and the Real IRA shot two cops in Dungannon and Derry. These groups have been trying to inflict a casualty on the crown forces for ten years straight, it was only a matter of time before they succeeded. It is clear that these groups, especially the Real IRA, have evolved to some extent out of their previous buffoonery and have become more capable organisations. Personally I believe it was the Real IRA behind this but no-one has claimed the attack yet so that remains to be seen.

This attack serves neither the Brits nor the Provos nor the Loyalists. The Brits have succeeded in implementing their strategy of Ulsterisation, Normalisation and Criminalisation. The northern state is stable and will remain a secure part of the United Kingdom as long as the Unionists wish it. Their former enemies in the Provisional Republican Movement are now in government in a UK context. The last the Brits or the Provos want is dead soldiers and bomb attacks as it disrupts the process which both of these parties have bought into.

Bottle_of_Smoke

nij wrote: »

The more I think about it, the more I suspect Loyalist involvement. These kinds of things DO happen. I'd say Unionists feel that they are being swallowed up by Irish culture. There are Irish language programmes on BBC NI even! Ever see those low budget ads for Ulster Scots heritage events?

So, as someone else said - who has the most to gain by committing this act?

Millitant Republicans who don't accept the GFA and want to see the talks fall apart. Want to embarrass Sinn Fein and enrage the PUL community.

Yes, the perpetrators and planners behind it may be ex-provos of course, in fact that is highly likely, but it would be unfair to link them to modern Sinn Fein, who I accept have turned their backs on this sort of thing.

Loyalists? Well, they may very well want to destroy Sinn Fein in Government but I'm not so sure they'd do this, I don't think its their style. I just hope to God we don't start seeing their style in the near future

Condolences to the famililes, don't know how they could deal with something like this. The thoughts of a young man being gunned down doing something as simple as looking forward to eating a pizza is sickening.

brianthebard

Tom65 wrote: »

I don't think it's possible. Apart from being politically toxic, the republican splinter groups are so fragmented it'd be difficult to know who to talk to. I mean, even if there were talks with the Real IRA, there'd still be the CIRA and various other dissidents. I do agree though that there shouldn't be a heavy-handed crack down. Find the people responsible, put them on trial, and don't make a big show of it. Though the British government is unparalleled when it comes to make martyrs out of people.

At some point one group is going to come out and claim it was their doing. They would then need to be approached for talks.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

These people won't accept ANYTHING but a 32 county republic. Thats not going to happen, so what would be the point of talks?

Do you know that for sure? SF were supposedly just like that a while ago. So were some of the military organisations that have since accepted the gfa. Its impossible to know they won't accept anything if they are never made part of the talks about the future of the north. Yes its unpalatable to some to be talking with terrorists, but secret talks with various groups were a huge part of the making of the good friday agreement, and really, what's the alternative? Bring in more troops, crack down, and thus justify more attacks?

Bottle_of_Smoke

brianthebard wrote: »

Do you know that for sure? SF were supposedly just like that a while ago. So were some of the military organisations that have since accepted the gfa. Its impossible to know they won't accept anything if they are never made part of the talks about the future of the north. Yes its unpalatable to some to be talking with terrorists, but secret talks with various groups were a huge part of the making of the good friday agreement, and really, what's the alternative? Bring in more troops, crack down, and thus justify more attacks?

I'm fairly sure. This was probably the Oglaigh na hEireann who have no political wing. The IRA always had Sinn Fein.

What, for example do you think these terrorists would concede to other than a united Ireland? Give them South Armagh and West Derry? The Unionist community would never put up with that as they'd see it as pushing them out of Ulster. Any other Ideas?

OhNoYouDidn't

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

These people won't accept ANYTHING but a 32 county republic. Thats not going to happen, so what would be the point of talks?

Of course it isn't...:rolleyes:

This was an amateur night attack that got lucky. Sloppy security from soldiers getting a delivery of pizza and the gunman took advantage.

Who the gunman are and who is backing them will emerge in time, but one thing is guranteed, it has nothing to do with the provisional movement.

blackgold>>

Maybe it is another false flag operation as has happened plenty of times.

FTA69

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Of course it isn't...:rolleyes:

This was an amateur night attack that got lucky. Sloppy security from soldiers getting a delivery of pizza and the gunman took advantage.

I wouldnt say it was that amateur like, they managed to whack two Brits and injure two others at the gate of a British Army barracks full of soldiers and get away cleanly.

blackgold>>

This is a perfect time to discredit sinn fein.The english know that sinn fein will win alot of seats as ff are all but finished.The brits don't want to see sinn fein having any more power in the republic. For those who seen the sinn fein ardeche a few weeks ago- they will win alot of seats in the next election.
This is all to do with the economic sh!t storm.

Bottle_of_Smoke

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Of course it isn't...:rolleyes:

This was an amateur night attack that got lucky. Sloppy security from soldiers getting a delivery of pizza and the gunman took advantage.

Who the gunman are and who is backing them will emerge in time, but one thing is guranteed, it has nothing to do with the provisional movement.

Two men are dead. Can you not keep anything on topic?

I have no problem with republicans pursuing a united Ireland through political means but in the short term a United Ireland is not going to happen and it is never going to happen through cowards murdering a few lads enjoying a pizza. Thats the context I meant it in and what's worse is you know that

Grow the f*ck up

meathstevie

There's absolutely nothing wrong with aspiring to a 32-county republic. Sinn Fein and the Provo's still have those aspirations and that's absolutely fine and since the GFA those folks have basicly stated that the will try and work towards that aspiration by political means only. The other crowd(CIRA,and "Real" IRA ) on the contrary have no interest in politics at all and have also stated that recently, published in the Irish News. They claim to strive towards a 32-county republic but how can you do that if the only thing you wish to do to further that goal is cause carnage ? Does anyone think these people will abide by the law and will respect for example An Garda Siochana as the sole agency entitled to enforce the law on behalf of the state if a 32-county republic came into existance tomorrow ? Or will they continue smuggling fuel, tobacco, flog fake designer stuff, sell copied DVD's etc and commit the odd bit of carnage to justify their own delusions every once in a while ?

OhNoYouDidn't

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Two men are dead. Can you not keep anything on topic?

I have no problem with republicans pursuing a united Ireland through political means but in the short term a United Ireland is not going to happen and it is never going to happen through cowards murdering a few lads enjoying a pizza. Thats the context I meant it in and what's worse is you know that

Grow the f*ck up

Me grow up?

The are not "a few lads enjoying a pizza". They are an occupying force and let their guard down. To the point where the dissidents (presumably) were able to kill two of them at close range. How is it off topic?

My fear is that this blind luck may result in whichever group carried out this operation may result in them gaining kudos from within the nationalist community.

Bottle_of_Smoke

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Me grow up?

The are not "a few lads enjoying a pizza". They are an occupying force and let their guard down. To the point where the dissidents (presumably) were able to kill two of them at close range. How is it off topic?

My fear is that this blind luck may result in whichever group carried out this operation may result in them gaining kudos from within the nationalist community.

This part was off topic

These people won't accept ANYTHING but a 32 county republic. Thats not going to happen, so what would be the point of talks?

Of course it isn't...:rolleyes:

You knew I was referring to the short term and the attack in itself as regards a united ireland so your sarcastic rolleyes comment was pointless

FTA69

The are not "a few lads enjoying a pizza". They are an occupying force and let their guard down.

Spot on. If you choose to buy into the all the macho-man rubbish on the TV and join an army you know full well is an occupying force in three countries then don't be stricken with surprise when someone in one of these countries decides to shoot at you.