Non- Nationals

veronica

Can someone please explain to me why so many Irish are losing there jobs and yet there are so many non-nationals still in work? This to me is absolutely crazy in that Irish nationals should have the pick of the jobs first and if they refuse then non-nationals should be offered the job. Also state benefit for non-nationals should be for one year after this nothing please return home and no child benefit, rent allowance, or any other benefit after one year. We should also close down refugee centres all over the country and take away their free mobile phone, free cars, shuttle buses, allowances and return them home. This money should then be given to the Carers association, Simon shelters, rape Crisis centres, ISPCC etc., It's time to bring down the shutters on these Vampires and look after our own and all this should be brought in in the next Budget. Thank u for your help during the Celtic tiger but you have been well paid and we cannot support u anymore! I know I am going to have the bleeding hearts saying I am a racist but talking about these issues does not make u a racist but a realist ...we are in a depression and non-nationals, refugees should be a burden on their own country not ours. As Dunnes stores logo goes the difference is we are Irish we are not a bottomless pitch for other countries to take advantage of. Let the debate begin now.

spudington16

IBTL.

Mena

veronica wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me why so many Irish are losing there jobs and yet there are so many non-nationals still in work?

What do you base this assumption on? From every media report I have seen, foreign nationals are losing their jobs at a higher rate than their Irish counterparts.

Is this just an observation you've made? Are you lumping EU citizens into the "non national" group as well or only targeting non eu/non Irish nationals?

veronica wrote: »

This to me is absolutely crazy in that Irish nationals should have the pick of the jobs first and if they refuse then non-nationals should be offered the job.

This is the case with non-EU citizens already.

veronica wrote: »

Also state benefit for non-nationals should be for one year after this nothing please return home and no child benefit, rent allowance, or any other benefit after one year.

I am going to have to assume you're not factoring in other EU non-nationals here because I can't seriously believe you're advocating chucking them out. Removing Ireland from the EU is another thread I would imagine.

The problem you then face is the massive amounts of "different" non-EU nationals currently in Ireland. From migrant workers on work visa's to migrants on permanent residency visa's. Are you saying that those who have lawfully attained permanent residence should be turfed out?

veronica wrote: »

We should also close down refugee centres all over the country and take away their free mobile phone, free cars, shuttle buses, allowances and return them home.

Why are you bringing asylum seekers into this debate? They are not permitted to work so this is a totally new topic of discussion. Are you saying Ireland should withdraw from the Geneva convention?

As to your point about free cars, mobile phones etc, all I will say is I cannot stomach to argue this point as to be fair, this is plain wrong and you damn well know it. There are no free cars/phones etc. Get some facts before coming here and ranting.

veronica wrote: »

This money should then be given to the Carers association, Simon shelters, rape Crisis centres, ISPCC etc., It's time to bring down the shutters on these Vampires and look after our own and all this should be brought in in the next Budget.

Personally I don't appreciate being called a Vampire thank you. I've contributed well over my fair share of taxes to the state in the nine years I have been here.

veronica

yes just go to any refugee centre and u will see them come out after their three free square meals a day and get into 99-2004 cars and just look at the Nigerians driving our taxis 2008/ 2009 cars and in this country for between 4-5 years. How could they get a bank loan? Enough is Enough Irish people for irish Jobs.

peasant

veronica wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me why so many Irish are losing there jobs and yet there are so many non-nationals still in work? .

Possibly because you've been so pre-occupied with Gucci handbags, moccachinos and your holiday home in Spain that you forgot what "work" actually is?

seanybiker

yawn. This topic is to old.

Mena

veronica wrote: »

yes just go to any refugee centre and u will see them come out after their three free square meals a day and get into 99-2004 cars

So an asylum seeker is by definition poor?

veronica wrote: »

and just look at the Nigerians driving our taxis 2008/ 2009 cars and in this country for between 4-5 years. How could they get a bank loan?

By showing a good credit rating and an ability to repay said loan? It's not rocket science but if you can't understand it, I could spell it out in simpler terms for you.

veronica wrote: »

Enough is Enough Irish people for irish Jobs.

Please. I call troll here. Nobody with an ounce of intelligence could spout this crap.

dvpower

veronica wrote: »

yes just go to any refugee centre and u will see them come out after their three free square meals a day and get into 99-2004 cars and just look at the Nigerians driving our taxis 2008/ 2009 cars and in this country for between 4-5 years. How could they get a bank loan? Enough is Enough Irish people for irish Jobs.

I was wondering when the xenophobes would start crawling out of the woodwork.

mikemac

Are there not 4-5 open threads on boards already for taxi drivers to rant on?

seanybiker

mikemac wrote: »

Are there not 4-5 open threads on boards already for taxi drivers to rant on?

Theres more than that.

Winter

By this argument, surely this means that all the Irish who have ever emigrated should also be returned back to Ireland from the countries where they currently reside.

I fancy if that occured, you would have exactly the same problems with not enough jobs for everyone who wants/needs one

.. yawn!

veronica

If EU Non-nationals are losing there jobs then why are they staying here if not only for the fact that the benefits are better here. why don'they go home. Wake up please we cannot afford these spongers anymore it's crazy that anybody living here and not a resident should get any benefit. look at our schools special needs children are to lose 1,000 teachers next september and yet non-national kids are to keep their special english teachers... this is madness and child benefit also going out of this country millions a year... for god sake are u people for real you want us this country go bankrupt because of these spongers!

peasant

veronica wrote: »

it's crazy that anybody living here and not a resident ...

NEWSFLASH
Anybody living here for more than six month IS a resident

Wipe the foam off your mouth and get your terminology right at least.

mike65

veronica what is a non national? We all come from somewhere.

veronica

Regarding the Irish abroad. irish people always spent money in the coutry they live in...the local pub, supermarket etc., they contribute to the economy but lets take the Polish they spend nothing here they even have their own supermarkets wire money home and benefits. They bring in dangerous cars onto our roads no NCT, No Tax, No repairs, taken money out of this state and into their own they don't care about us they only care about themselves. Now I am not saying all Non-Nationals are the same the French, German, are not spongers when work runs out they do return home.

ongarite

The so called spongers are you call them, have the same exact rights to claim benefits here if they have worked for 2 years and paid their PRSI.
They are Irish tax-payers, working hard in probably crappy jobs and deserve the benefits they can get if they lose their jobs.

peasant

veronica wrote: »

Now I am not saying all Non-Nationals are the same the German, are not spongers when work runs out they do return home.

I'm still here

ongarite

veronica wrote: »

Regarding the Irish abroad. irish people always spent money in the coutry they live in...the local pub, supermarket etc., they contribute to the economy but lets take the Polish they spend nothing here they even have their own supermarkets wire money home and benefits. They bring in dangerous cars onto our roads no NCT, No Tax, No repairs, taken money out of this state and into their own they don't care about us they only care about themselves. Now I am not saying all Non-Nationals are the same the French, German, are not spongers when work runs out they do return home.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
The flip are you on? If they shop and spend in Ireland, that income tax, VAT, PRSI, rental, business rate income that they are all paying.

You know you sound like a American, Oz right wing weirdo complaining about the Irish illegals abroad.

You are a quite frankly an idiot..

mikemac

mike65 wrote: »

veronica what is a non national? We all come from somewhere.

Fair point but people use it as the Government, RTE and the newspapers constantly use it.
it's not suprising that many people picked it up, I use the term no problems anyway

ongarite

obligatory South Park video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2fGl9587X8

Mena

mikemac wrote: »

Fair point but people use it as the Government, RTE and the newspapers constantly use it.
it's not suprising that many people picked it up, I use the term no problems anyway

I'm a non-national, the term does not bother me at all, so feel free to use it.

OP, you've ignored many of my points raised in my first two posts. Please go back and answer them.

veronica

Well I am glad to see that must of you bleeding hearts are still in Jobs and hope u will continue to do so but don't blame me if u do or our government just look around u as our country has been taken over the Invasion of the Body snatchers ....polish, LT, Nigerians. I hope your children will get a job when they finish school and I hope your parents will get a hospital bed when they need one. I wish I could go around with blinkers on just like u. thanks for the one sided debate but maybe when u start to live in the real world of today we can debate some more.

DenMan

Don't be so harsh on the OP guys. They are some valid and realistic points she is making. Ireland needs to look at and adress it's immigration status. For me personally I lived and worked in Malta up until a few years ago. There is no such thing as benefits for European member's who wish to live there. In fact you have to be a resident of the state for three years in order to be entitled to 50 euro a week there (European members only). Malta has huge problems with Libyan nationals who are living there in great numbers (due to the close contact both nations have enjoyed since Gaddafi's deal in the 80's).

The way the economy is going here right now a lot of people will be complaining about the foreign nationals in this country. Having been one myself and worked from the ground up I can see how some people would react that way. I am not like that myself and have just returned to full time education last Sept. Right now it is the best place to be.

peasant

veronica wrote: »

thanks for the one sided debate

oh the ironing

Yes, thank you indeed !

Alessandra

veronica wrote: »

Regarding the Irish abroad. irish people always spent money in the coutry they live in...the local pub, supermarket etc., they contribute to the economy but lets take the Polish they spend nothing here they even have their own supermarkets wire money home and benefits. They bring in dangerous cars onto our roads no NCT, No Tax, No repairs, taken money out of this state and into their own they don't care about us they only care about themselves. Now I am not saying all Non-Nationals are the same the French, German, are not spongers when work runs out they do return home.

Sorry but I have seen Polish buying things in Irish shops before.. Is their tax money not as good as ours or something?
This kind of bigotry irks me.. You cannot generalise. These people were enticed to Ireland in the boom and have made lives for themselves here and paid their due. I think there are many Irish who have emigrated who sent money home because they had to. It is not some big conspiracy bye Polish or any other nationality. Why should they give up their jobs? Totally unreasonable post tbh.

ongarite

DenMan wrote: »

For me personally I lived and worked in Malta up until a few years ago. There is no such thing as benefits for European member's who wish to live there. In fact you have to be a resident of the state for three years in order to be entitled to 50 euro a week there (European members only). Malta has huge problems with Libyan nationals who are living there in great numbers (due to the close contact both nations have enjoyed since Gaddafi's deal in the 80's).

There are no benefits in Ireland either for EU workers until they have been working >21 months and paid enough PRSI contributions.

Dannyboy83

veronica wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me why so many Irish are losing there jobs and yet there are so many non-nationals still in work? This to me is absolutely crazy in that Irish nationals should have the pick of the jobs first and if they refuse then non-nationals should be offered the job. Also state benefit for non-nationals should be for one year after this nothing please return home and no child benefit, rent allowance, or any other benefit after one year. We should also close down refugee centres all over the country and take away their free mobile phone, free cars, shuttle buses, allowances and return them home. This money should then be given to the Carers association, Simon shelters, rape Crisis centres, ISPCC etc., It's time to bring down the shutters on these Vampires and look after our own and all this should be brought in in the next Budget. Thank u for your help during the Celtic tiger but you have been well paid and we cannot support u anymore! I know I am going to have the bleeding hearts saying I am a racist but talking about these issues does not make u a racist but a realist ...we are in a depression and non-nationals, refugees should be a burden on their own country not ours. As Dunnes stores logo goes the difference is we are Irish we are not a bottomless pitch for other countries to take advantage of. Let the debate begin now.

There is no debate.

To make such proposals, you clearly don't have the foggiest iota about economics or law.


I'm not going to tackle the refugee issue, just the non-nationals issue:

1) If they people contribute to our tax system and our social welfare system, then they are entitled to the same benefits.

2) If we remove that right, then we legally have to give them back every cent of tax they've paid, that would bankrupt the country a lot quicker.

3) If you remove the support system, where people are living on the street and have nothing to eat, they will turn to crime. The Irish gangsters were by far the most profligate in the US. The Irish gangsters did most of the dirty work for the Italian Mob, just the mafia were more organised but none were more ruthless than the Irish

4) What will we do if our country goes tits up and we need to export people?

5) Lots of the non-nationals have already been ripped off by Irish people anyway. Why do you think the Poles have posters on their building sites - "No dogs and No Irish"

6) What ever happened to Irish hospitality?

7) By importing young people into this country, in the short term its harder but in the long run, when jobs return, its economically much more sound. Otherwise there will be a tiny bunch of middle class Irish supporting a growing mass of Irish pensioners.


There are millions of issues

mike65

The OP is just ranting though,

It's time to bring down the shutters on these Vampires

an EU citizen is free to stay, they can't be turfed out. Many from other nations will be domiciled. So the "throw em out" (or should I say throw us out) argument is a nonsense.

Mena

DenMan wrote: »

Don't be so harsh on the OP guys. They are some valid and realistic points she is making.

Point them out. Is it perhaps all the free cars and mobiles the asylum seekers get, as she claims? Or perhaps the "fact" that all the Irish are losing their jobs to foreign nationals?

I'm all for debate, and immigration should be discussed, but you cannot debate when the opposing side uses sweeping generalisations, mistruth, rumour and lies and won't budge from the untenable position.

Dannyboy83

veronica wrote: »

Well I am glad to see that must of you bleeding hearts are still in Jobs and hope u will continue to do so but don't blame me if u do or our government just look around u as our country has been taken over the Invasion of the Body snatchers ....polish, LT, Nigerians. I hope your children will get a job when they finish school and I hope your parents will get a hospital bed when they need one. I wish I could go around with blinkers on just like u. thanks for the one sided debate but maybe when u start to live in the real world of today we can debate some more.

I'm gobsmacked to be honest.
No shame in being ignorant, shameful to defend the ignorance tho.

Could you please outline the ideas and benefits:

Why should non-nationals NOT be allowed to work here?
What are the benefits for Ireland?

veronica

Why should Non Nationals be entitlied to any benefits after two years here can they not get it at home and when they return apply for a rebate of their PRSI. We gave them a job with a wage is this not enough and rent allowances, child benefit, free hospital cover if they needed it for them and their families. Come on now especially Poles it's time u moved on have a bit of dignity and stop bleeding oue system!

A Dub in Glasgo

veronica wrote: »

Why should Non Nationals be entitlied to any benefits after two years here can they not get it at home and when they return apply for a rebate of their PRSI. We gave them a job with a wage is this not enough and rent allowances, child benefit, free hospital cover if they needed it for them and their families.

In which case, why should anybody be entitled to benefits?

Phsyche

actually a lot of Poles are already leaving to go back home. may be the OP should find another nationality to attack now?:rolleyes:

Dannyboy83

DenMan wrote: »

Don't be so harsh on the OP guys. They are some valid and realistic points she is making.

She hasn't made a single point, just sweeping innacurate generalisations.

Ireland needs to look at and adress it's immigration status.

We already have.

Romania and Bulgaria are not entitled to work permits unless requested by an employer.

Any of the other 25 member states from 27 are allowed to come and work here.

What is much more frustrating for me is that in one of my old companies, we sent home a bloody nice Canadian girl who had a job, spoke 3 languages and loved Ireland.
Sent her home because her visa expired.

And outside on the street, were a load of fcuking homegrown pikeys pissing on the bosses car.
I sh*t you not.

For me personally I lived and worked in Malta up until a few years ago. There is no such thing as benefits for European member's who wish to live there. In fact you have to be a resident of the state for three years in order to be entitled to 50 euro a week there (European members only).

Do you have any clue what the requirements are for non-national workers here?
At least 19months taxed work out of 36 months

You can't even get an Irish passport unless you've lived here for about 7 years

Malta has huge problems with Libyan nationals who are living there in great numbers (due to the close contact both nations have enjoyed since Gaddafi's deal in the 80's).

Libya and Malta are a totally different story.
Libya is run by a dictator, and they have the 5th largest oil reserves in the world.

The way the economy is going here right now a lot of people will be complaining about the foreign nationals in this country. Having been one myself and worked from the ground up I can see how some people would react that way. I am not like that myself and have just returned to full time education last Sept. Right now it is the best place to be.

People like the OP will be complaining about you too bro.

"Denman is a leech, hes living off our tax money and going to college, fcuking sponge"
Anybody with half an iota of how the world works obviously would understand the reality.

diverdriver

Clearly a troll, ignore her.

MySelf56

veronica wrote: »

Regarding the Irish abroad. irish people always spent money in the coutry they live in...the local pub, supermarket etc., they contribute to the economy but lets take the Polish they spend nothing here they even have their own supermarkets wire money home and benefits. They bring in dangerous cars onto our roads no NCT, No Tax, No repairs, taken money out of this state and into their own they don't care about us they only care about themselves. Now I am not saying all Non-Nationals are the same the French, German, are not spongers when work runs out they do return home.

Hmm some how according OP, non-nationals living on air. ONLY buying stuff from Polish shops or ethnic shops. So be it, isn't that contribution. By setuping shop they are paying RENT and VAT. Tell me they dont have to pay rent and VAT. I dont where do you shop when ever i went any supermarket i have always see lovley EE wommen every where, thats always my best point of shopping. You must be shopping the most crappiest super market otherwise.

Now onto cars, you really have very shallow mind or your IQ is less then your shoe size, now jumping now onto cars with out responding other poster questions. Jumped on Asylum bashing again without answering other poster question.

Now some how they non-nationals are spongers except germans and french.

I would recommend
Why dont you stop using your chinese/indian/pizza's take away?
Why dont you stop going to local if the lovely bar maid is a non-national?
Why dont you stop using health service probably you will diffently encounter nurse from Philpines or Indian?
Why dont you stop using mechanic who have some non national working as mechanic?
Why dont you stop using buying a house probably the developer used non national as labour for penauts?
Why dont you stop using ESB for moneypoint they have used non national to build some of the plant?


show me which part of our life dont have immigrant working??

more over large propertion Irish GDP is contributed by the Microsoft/Intel and other Multinational companies they are also non-national so you shouldnt be using them?

May be you never heard "Mr. Sean Fitzpatrick" does that name sound like non national to you??

Dannyboy83

veronica wrote: »

Why should Non Nationals be entitlied to any benefits after two years here can they not get it at home and when they return apply for a rebate of their PRSI. We gave them a job with a wage is this not enough and rent allowances, child benefit, free hospital cover if they needed it for them and their families. Come on now especially Poles it's time u moved on have a bit of dignity and stop bleeding oue system!

How do you propose to pay the rebate?
How about the tax they've paid for a cup of coffee or on rent, or on purchases?
How about their VAT?
How about their motor tax, their insurance?

Do you have any clue?

DenMan

Mena wrote: »

Point them out. Is it perhaps all the free cars and mobiles the asylum seekers get, as she claims? Or perhaps the "fact" that all the Irish are losing their jobs to foreign nationals?

I'm all for debate, and immigration should be discussed, but you cannot debate when the opposing side uses sweeping generalisations, mistruth, rumour and lies and won't budge from the untenable position.

You are very correct Mena. Unfortunately some people have to use sweeping generalisations and look towards rumours and speculation rather than fact and truth. I don't know about free cars and mobile phones for non nationals as I am not long back to Ireland after 8 years away. Ireland is just one country that has been affected by a serious world collapse. The economy here had a fantastic cycle and now like all forward moving economies there is always the enevitable reverse cycle. It is a global problem and Ireland has been hit very badly because the success that was previously there has been reversed. I feel very sad about what has been happening to the Latvian economy right now and it makes our problems here pale in comparison.

Thanks for the info Danny. Some nice points there mate.

Alessandra

veronica wrote: »

Why should Non Nationals be entitlied to any benefits after two years here can they not get it at home and when they return apply for a rebate of their PRSI. We gave them a job with a wage is this not enough and rent allowances, child benefit, free hospital cover if they needed it for them and their families. Come on now especially Poles it's time u moved on have a bit of dignity and stop bleeding oue system!

They have not been paying tax in their own country!!! They have been paying tax here... These are the people who took jobs where Irish people wouldn't and worked bloody hard for it. They build up entitlements in th same way as the Irish do through prsi contributions.. You know someone can't just move here and claim the dole!!

What if they don't want to go home? What if they have Irish wives, Irish children? Deport them? What about free movement of people in the EU? Freedom to work and travel. Just as they are welcome to come here, you are welcome to move somewhere in EU. You can get a job. If you lost your job a few years later would you just leave and not claim your entitlement?

veronica

Yes that's it put your heads under a rock ignore me, ignore whats going on around u and let others pull the rug from under your feet. 10,000 people marched in Cork recently for a load of Diva's the GAA Hurling team and yet our jobs are being taken Irish on the dole and we crawl under a rock and in your fantasy world everything is ok.LALALALALA

meathstevie

Stupidity and shortsightedness knows no bounds. That's all I can say.

Mena

veronica wrote: »

Yes that's it put your heads under a rock ignore me, ignore whats going on around u and let others pull the rug from under your feet. 10,000 people marched in Cork recently for a load of Diva's the GAA Hurling team and yet our jobs are being taken Irish on the dole and we crawl under a rock and in your fantasy world everything is ok.LALALALALA

You're being ignored because you're unable to put together a cogent argument or respond to any points raised by other posters in this thread. Why don't you just create a blog if you don't want a debate?

I fear it is you that is living in a fantasy world. Very much so. You have no clear grasp of EU or Irish Law. Hell I'm a non-national and I appear to know more than you do.

Go do some research then come back to us with facts. Maybe then we can have a productive discussion.

Alessandra

veronica wrote: »

yet our jobs are being taken Irish on the dole and we crawl under a rock and in your fantasy world everything is ok.LALALALALA

Sure the polish are losing their jobs too..

Climate Expert

mike65 wrote: »

veronica what is a non national? We all come from somewhere.

Its a common term used in Ireland to describe somebody who is not of Irish nationality. I'm surprised you haven't come across it before.

Dannyboy83

veronica wrote: »

Yes that's it put your heads under a rock ignore me, ignore whats going on around u and let others pull the rug from under your feet.

The only person with their head under a rock is yourself.
I asked you to outline the benfits, care to give it a try?

10,000 people marched in Cork recently for a load of Diva's the GAA

What exactly does that have to do with immigrant workers?
Or the collapse of our nation?

yet our jobs are being taken Irish on the dole and we crawl under a rock and in your fantasy world everything is ok.LALALALALA

Our jobs are being taken by whom?

Nobody is taking the jobs - they are evaporating. The nation is paying for living on an overdraft. That has nothing to do with immigrants.

And if a Polish person has a job, they're paying the exact same tax as an Irish person would!?

What drugs are you on?
Can I have some please?

MySelf56

veronica wrote: »

Yes that's it put your heads under a rock ignore me, ignore whats going on around u and let others pull the rug from under your feet. 10,000 people marched in Cork recently for a load of Diva's the GAA Hurling team and yet our jobs are being taken Irish on the dole and we crawl under a rock and in your fantasy world everything is ok.LALALALALA

Last week more then 100000 people are in dublin streets to protest aganist govt. and their failure.
Honestly what you smoking? Do you actually live here?

Dannyboy83

veronica wrote: »

As Dunnes stores logo goes the difference is we are Irish we are not a bottomless pitch for other countries to take advantage of.

Could you have a read off of this please?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protectionism

Seriously, please educate yourself.

And I hope your not from Cork because I feel fcuking ashamed if you are to be honest.

veronica

Well u all made my day......we were always great for looking after others in this country but again forgot about our own.Rember the Black babies in the 60/70 now driving our taxis

Special needs teachers being cut.
Our own people losing their Jobs
Sleeping rough on the steets.
Carers getting no respite

and yet Nigerians being put up in hotels and NON-NATIONALS WHICH ARE NON IRISH getting Child benefit/special teachers.

We need the BNP to come over here and sort out this mess. have to go now kettle is boiling just like u.

Dannyboy83

veronica wrote: »

Well u all made my day......we were always great for looking after others in this country but again forgot about our own.Rember the Black babies in the 60/70 now driving our taxis

Special needs teachers being cut.
Our own people losing their Jobs
Sleeping rough on the steets.
Carers getting no respite

and yet Nigerians being put up in hotels and NON-NATIONALS WHICH ARE NON IRISH getting Child benefit/special teachers.

We need the BNP to come over here and sort out this mess. have to go now kettle is boiling just like u.

HAHAHA.

If the BNP came over here, you'd be the first on the chopping block my dear.

mike65

MySelf56

10,000 people did march in Cork (they were annoyed at the GAA related shennanigans). Quite what that has to do with anything else is another matter.

ongarite

So now we are back to non-Irish people driving taxis again? Black babies driving taxis? So your xenophobic now aswell as racist.