Swop-o-nomics.com

gerry87

Hey,

I've just set up a website http://www.swoponomics.com and I'm looking for some input/suggestions on the idea and execution so far.

Firstly, it's not really positioned as a commercial enterprise but depending on numbers I might put in some ads in the future... i'm not looking to charge for membership.

Hopefully the idea is clear (there will be an 'About' section explaining the site). People barter their skills for goods or services, eg. a recently unemployed solicitor who needs some painting work done and a painter whose having trouble securing work and needs some administrative legal work done.

I know the idea isn't new, but I think there are some unique features

-Directed specifically at the Irish market.
-It's based on a message board/community theme
-The idea exchange section
-Currency exchange section
-The message board has a built in reputation system, similar to ebay's feedback

The biggest challenge will be marketing it since without any members, people have little incentive to become members.

One positive point for the site (and the reason I made it) is the current economic climate. A lot of people are losing their jobs, bartering their skills is a way for them continue consuming whilst freeing up cash reserves for non-tradables like utility bills.

It also allows small (or large) businesses to lower their costs by trading their product for any work/goods they need. They are essentially paying the retail price of the good whilst it's costing them the wholesale price.

I have to look into this one, but i'm unsure whether non-cash transactions have to be declared for tax. If not then there are clear tax benefits for all parties.

So, any suggestions on ways to proceed from here or directions to take it?

<snip> tone down the advertising - i know it was tongue in cheek but still lets keep things fair </snip>

niceirishfella

Hi Gerry,

Its a forum you set up for swopping! Fairs do's.
Best of luck with it.

gerry87

niceirishfella wrote: »

Hi Gerry,

Its a forum you set up for swopping! Fairs do's.
Best of luck with it.

Thanks.

Zascar

Fair play Gerry - good idea. I had thought of something very similar myself before but well done for doing it. I like the name, you can build other things around it or expand to other countries etc if it works.

The way I would like to see a site like this work is not as a forum, but a purpose built web app as such. A site that is more "Web 2.0 - ish, but I'm sure it can work well as it, somehting to think about in the future.

How are you going to build members and traffic? Try to get some press coverage or web exposure from bloggers etc.

Interested to see how this goes!

Offy

I love the idea. One more member for your site

gerry87

Zascar wrote: »

Fair play Gerry - good idea. I had thought of something very similar myself before but well done for doing it. I like the name, you can build other things around it or expand to other countries etc if it works.

The way I would like to see a site like this work is not as a forum, but a purpose built web app as such. A site that is more "Web 2.0 - ish, but I'm sure it can work well as it, somehting to think about in the future.

How are you going to build members and traffic? Try to get some press coverage or web exposure from bloggers etc.

Interested to see how this goes!

Hey, thanks for the reply.

I was thinking about the web app approach but really that's beyond my abilities at the moment, definitely something i'll be looking into though.

As for building members, one thing i'd really like to get is some coverage on the likes of the Moncrief show on Newstalk or some other light daytime radio. Other than that, i'll try to figure out a way to drum up some web exposure, one thing i've to look into is facebook's targeted advertising.

Another thing i'm going to apply for is http://www.socialentrepreneurs.ie/, the site seems to tick all their eligibility boxes for funding and mentoring.

Btw, i'm adding an entertainments section as we speak... a DJ would fit in there nicely

Thanks for signing up offy!

(by the way, i am going to be adding a page explaining the site, but is it clear from the site itself what its all about or does it need to be made clearer?)

swanvill

Gerry87,
I had a look at the forum and I think it is well put together. I like the site and I hope it succeeds for you.

Swanvill

MrMatisse

Hi Gerry, great idea!

Is the currency swapping section legal in Ireland? I have a feeling it could be in breach of the 1995 money laundering act.

gerry87

Really-Stressed wrote: »

Hi Gerry, great idea!

Is the currency swapping section legal in Ireland? I have a feeling it could be in breach of the 1995 money laundering act.

eek, legal trouble! Better check that one out, thanks.

MrMatisse

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/MoneyLaundering.pdf/Files/MoneyLaundering.pdf

Here's a link to a summary of the regulations, looks like a business offering foreign exchange services could have a ton of regulations to comply with.:eek:

gerry87

Really-Stressed wrote: »

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/MoneyLaundering.pdf/Files/MoneyLaundering.pdf

Here's a link to a summary of the regulations, looks like a business offering foreign exchange services could have a ton of regulations to comply with.:eek:

Wow, thanks for looking into that for me! I've e-mailed the financial regulator so i should have the definitive in writing soon, I'll report back when I hear.

drunkmonkey

Best of Luck Gerry..

There was a government funded scheme in Argentina which put young businesses in touch with experienced (out of work) professionals during their major recession. The old heads would help the start ups for a small stake or guaranteed job with the up and coming business.
Were in danger of loosing valuable skills & contacts if something isn't done shortly, I know there's guys out there who could really help my business but the problem is where do I find them or get in contact with them...your website is a step in the right direction.....It would be nice to see the concept develop.

MB74

Like the idea, signed up. Lets get more on line.

DublinWriter

I, with the Missus, currently run an eco-site not dissimilar to yours that services the UK.

Firstly, get your Google Adsence account working and earning for you from day one.

Secondly, get to know VBulletin technically as best you can.

Thirdly, get some idea of the legal landmines you might be trodding on. You'll need to vastly expand VB's default user-agreement if you want to cover your ass in terms of defamatory remarks and naughty stuff than shouldn't be swopped.

Lastly, and most importantly, sites like yours live or die on viral-word-of mouth marketing.

gerry87

DublinWriter wrote: »

I, with the Missus, currently run an eco-site not dissimilar to yours that services the UK.

Firstly, get your Google Adsence account working and earning for you from day one.

Secondly, get to know VBulletin technically as best you can.

Thirdly, get some idea of the legal landmines you might be trodding on. You'll need to vastly expand VB's default user-agreement if you want to cover your ass in terms of defamatory remarks and naughty stuff than shouldn't be swopped.

Lastly, and most importantly, sites like yours live or die on viral-word-of mouth marketing.

Hey, thanks for the advice. Its not actually on VBulletin, its on an open source alternative - myBB. I was looking into vBulletin, set this up as a sample and it just seemed quite good. Are you familiar with the likes of myBB, would you imagine i'd need a more professional/reliable service like VB in the future?

Also I was thinking about the user agreement, I'll have a look at the VB one now. I'm drafting one and I'll be getting my brother to ask his legal lecturers for some advice about it and a few other things. I don't know if I can just take the vBulliten one, are the likes of user agreements free to use?

I've set up an adsense, i'll be putting it on soon. Finally, as you say i'm really going to be working hard on the whole viral/word of mouth thing.

(love the sig btw )

pseudonym1

Super idea!

well done and best of luck with it! Hope you find a way about the cash awop thing!

gerry87

Hey, brief update... it seems to be going well and I've been getting some good feedback and suggestions from people.

Since going live on Saturday we've got nearly 30 members and a few ads up. I've put up some adsense and as of today Swop-o-nomics became a profitable business with net profits in the region of <$1 !

I've started some ads on facebook and I'm really trying hard to build word of mouth about it, which seems to be going well.

A few of you mentioned viral word of mouth through blogs, i've never really used blogs before... would you be able to advise any ways to drum up some interest? I've added a premium forum to the site where premium users can make posts with HTML, i'm thinking of upgrading users to premuim in exchange for things (in the spirit of barter ), would this sort of thing be of interest to bloggers?

Zascar

Good idea.

Send me over some basic text and I'd be happy to write a blog post for you.

betonit

theres a section on this site for "review my site" or "site announcements"

http://www.irishwebmasterforum.com/

you'd get more exposure

DublinWriter

gerry87 wrote: »

Hey, thanks for the advice. Its not actually on VBulletin, its on an open source alternative - myBB. I was looking into vBulletin, set this up as a sample and it just seemed quite good. Are you familiar with the likes of myBB, would you imagine i'd need a more professional/reliable service like VB in the future?

Had we researched it a bit more, we would have probably gone with myBB, as it was, being a happy boards.ie member for ages, I decided if VB was good enough for them, it was good enough for us.

Good call on the facebook advertising route, we will be doing the same shortly. I sent Press Releases to *all* the local Radio Stations in the UK and got zero response.

swanvill

Hi I am not surprised that you got zero response from your press release, getting editorial comment takes quite a bit of effort and that is why PR people get the big bucks.

My partner works in PR and it takes not just a well written piece but you also got to give the journalists a hook/ interesting (to general populace) newsworthy angle. Then you got to have their contact details and chase them.

Zascar

Gerry although I really like the look of the site, the logo needs work, its just a bit rough, needs polishing.

Maybe you can find someone to help you for free/swop? Try over on www.creativeireland.com maybe

Quick post now on my blog

DublinWriter

swanvill wrote: »

My partner works in PR and it takes not just a well written piece but you also got to give the journalists a hook/ interesting (to general populace) newsworthy angle. Then you got to have their contact details and chase them.

I was waiting for that. I got advice from someone working in PR, I've also seen my fair share of press releases. Ours was short, snappy, 'zingy' (hate that description) and had two fairly humourous hooks.

I've learnt that using old-media to promote new-media is problematic, at least.

gerry87

Hey guys,

Just keeping you all posted, since it was basically launched by boards

Getting some good feedback. Have a small steady stream of traffic and averaging a couple of members each day, most seem to be just signing up to keep an eye on it though nearly at 50 now after spending a grand total of €10 on advertising, so can't complain at all!

I plan on spending a little money on it this week, I got a good quote on printing 2000 leaflets (210 for design and printing), I'm thinking of seeing if they would be interested in dropping a nominal amount off the price and including their logo on the flyer with something like "This leaflet was arranged by barter agreement with XXX". Really for the novelty more then anything cos their quote is really quite fair.

Other than that, I'm doing up a press release to send round to, well... all the newspapers in Ireland (and radio stations!). Taking a fishing with dynamite approach, just have to get the release right. Does anybody know anything about contacting newspapers with something like this? Would you send it to a general contact e-mail or source the journalist that deals internet related things?

I've started a twitter a/c, http://twitter.com/swoponomics, not sure whats going on it but ill keep it updated.

celtictigermrk2

Hi Gerry,

Looks great, fair play for giving it a go, and the best of luck with it.

speakswan

I would really recommend that you hire a good PR consultant, it will cost you more but it will get you the exposure. You could write to every journalist but you will probably be ignored but a good PR person would you get an interview on Pat Kenny (radio) or on to TV3 morning show. You have a nice story to sell but you might find it hard to get noticed. Sorry to sound negative and I understand about small budgets but I am just trying to be helpful.

gerry87

speakswan wrote: »

I would really recommend that you hire a good PR consultant, it will cost you more but it will get you the exposure. You could write to every journalist but you will probably be ignored but a good PR person would you get an interview on Pat Kenny (radio) or on to TV3 morning show. You have a nice story to sell but you might find it hard to get noticed. Sorry to sound negative and I understand about small budgets but I am just trying to be helpful.

No need to be sorry, negative feedback is as important as positive. I agree, me firing off a completely unprofessional email or 'press release' could do more harm then good and get me completely ignored. I am willing to spend money on this, just trying to keep it under control

I'm looking to talk with some marketing people in my college, hopefully they might know some good PR people to get in contact with.

I know it may be a 'how long is a piece of string' answer, but would anyone have any idea about the level of costs I would be looking at? Roughly... would we be talking hundreds/thousands?

speakswan

Hi,
It would be in the low thousands not hundreds I am afraid. However if you narrowed your focus say I want Pat Kenny/Ray D'arcy radio then it would reduce the cost. My obvious advice would be get quotes and ask them to give you a menu so much for radio target, so much for print media, do you need a photographer / models (only €100 - €200 each per model very cheap :-).

I have some people that I have used in the past and I could recommend. Please feel free to pm me and I will pass on their details to you.

thesteve

Hey,

congrats on the site, I think it's a great idea. I just really have a few points to comment on. Before I get flamed, a lot of this is my opinion as an avid internet user...

1. After hitting the initial page and moving onto the forum, your logo is too large and is therefore creating a lot of whitespace in the upper right hand section, if you decreased the logo that would reduce the whitespace and make the site look more compact and easier to read

2. One thing that I dislike is the duplication of postings. I understand your method of trying to offer and request services but once the web site starts to grow, a duplication in postings will eventually hurt your database and make the forum hard to navigate.

3. Regionality (if that's a word) is starting to bite you already, I see someone looking for broadband installation in Australia, you may have to start thinking about sharding the site into regional areas already otherwise no one will visit it once they see they'll have to spend time finding a local posting...

- S

betonit

how do you money from it? adsense and banner ads only?

gerry87

thesteve wrote: »

Hey,

congrats on the site, I think it's a great idea. I just really have a few points to comment on. Before I get flamed, a lot of this is my opinion as an avid internet user...

1. After hitting the initial page and moving onto the forum, your logo is too large and is therefore creating a lot of whitespace in the upper right hand section, if you decreased the logo that would reduce the whitespace and make the site look more compact and easier to read

2. One thing that I dislike is the duplication of postings. I understand your method of trying to offer and request services but once the web site starts to grow, a duplication in postings will eventually hurt your database and make the forum hard to navigate. Another option is to put an Offered and a Requested section in each forum, that might improve navigation.

3. Regionality (if that's a word) is starting to bite you already, I see someone looking for broadband installation in Australia, you may have to start thinking about sharding the site into regional areas already otherwise no one will visit it once they see they'll have to spend time finding a local posting...

- S

Three great points.

Logo - I definitely agree with this, I felt something wasn't quite right with it but i think you've hit the nail on the head there. (it's changed now, better? still too big?)

Duplicate posting - I see what you mean, what I'm not sure about is say a person does post an offered and a requested in different forums, should I be monitoring and deleting? Which one should I delete as they're both valid? What I might do is get rid of the place I recommend that they post in two places, then the majority of people will (and seem to be already) just post one.

Regionality (it's a word now!) - about 93% of visitors so far are from Ireland since I'm just targeting people with advertising so if that keeps up it shouldn't be a huge problem. The 'if it takes off' plan is to set up ones for different countries, but at the moment it's just too empty to add more sections by breaking it up regionally. One thing i do think on this point, nowhere on the site does it say it's a dedicated Irish site, I'm trying to think of somewhere to put that in.

Thanks!

gerry87

betonit wrote: »

how do you money from it? adsense and banner ads only?

Yeah it's just adsense. I'm not really looking to make money from it at the moment, just as long as it's not costing I'm happy. Have a few ideas for the future but I'm definitely not planning on charging people for membership.

betonit

gerry87 wrote: »

Yeah it's just adsense. I'm not really looking to make money from it at the moment, just as long as it's not costing I'm happy. Have a few ideas for the future but I'm definitely not planning on charging people for membership.

fair play...build the name, its a great name

patftrears

gerry87 wrote: »

Yeah it's just adsense. I'm not really looking to make money from it at the moment, just as long as it's not costing I'm happy. Have a few ideas for the future but I'm definitely not planning on charging people for membership.

http://tradefirst.ie/ these guys are pushing their site hard at the moment, ad in the main papers

gerry87

patftrears wrote: »

http://tradefirst.ie/ these guys are pushing their site hard at the moment, ad in the main papers

Thanks for posting this, I've been looking for similar sites from Ireland and I hadn't heard of these before.

I don't mean any of this to sound at all defensive I've seen other (non-irish) sites like this, I'd like to hear any thoughts anyone has, as far as I'm concerned there's plenty of barter to go around .

The two are slightly different, they seem to be essentially running a LETS (Local Economic Trading Scheme) where members trade to earn tradefirst credits which they can spend with other members.

One thing I'm confused about these systems, does anyone know if they experience in/deflation? How is the overall credit in the system managed?

MILF

Hi Gerry! Just signed up! Brilliant idea! Love it!
One small thing, you have "Premium" spelled wrong in your "Premium Zone" and you also have "Secretarial" spelled wrong!!!!
Otherwise, top job!

gerry87

MILF wrote: »

Hi Gerry! Just signed up! Brilliant idea! Love it!
One small thing, you have "Premium" spelled wrong in your "Premium Zone" and you also have "Secretarial" spelled wrong!!!!
Otherwise, top job!

spelled wrong multiple times, no passing that off as a typo!

Much appreciated!

MILF

No problem. I'm dead impressed! I'm already after trying to post a thread! Just waiting on it to be passed by you!

gerry87 wrote: »

spelled wrong multiple times, no passing that off as a typo!

Much appreciated!

gerry87

Hey all,

Looking for some thoughts on a logo design, any thoughts on how it could be better?

1


2


The old one was

Zascar

1000% better. I really like it. Number 1 is better

Pixelcraft

hi gerry. I think you have a conflict with your branding and the website. Your URL is not swop-o-nomics.com, yet your logo and signature has that clearly visible. It's going to cause confusion or at least inhibit your recognition.

Zascar

Gerry just edit the title of this thread, that's where the confusion started. I like the dots in the middle of the new logo, no need to remove them. Maybe register swop-o-nomics.com as well just in case.

BTW if you want a few more logo ideas for very cheap, check out: http://www.25poundlogo.co.uk/ - worth a punt at least...

M@21

Good luck with that Gerry.
Left you some feedback about the logo.

gerry87

Thanks for the suggestion M@, i've added a book section.

Re the branding, i'm slightly torn between Swoponomics and Swop-o-nomics, The reason I wen't with swop-o-nomics as the actual name is that without the hyphens it takes some reading to recognise the word. But, since you don't pronounce the hyphens, when you mention it to people you don't have to say "Swop-o-nomics, now thats with a hyphen before and after the o".

I think the best thing to do is to register swop-o-nomics.com/ie aswell. (I can't edit the thread title now, must have been up too long or something)

Also, I'm considering not going with any of those logos and putting up a competition on Worth1000.com, I really like the quality and originality of the entries there.

lecheile

gerry87 wrote: »

Hey all,

Looking for some thoughts on a logo design, any thoughts on how it could be better?

1


2


The old one was

Number 1 gets my vote also. Regarding the name - best with hyphens IMHO. Even with the spoken word you will need to be clear is it 'swop' or 'swap' - now the combinations of urls to be registered starts getting interesting

hedgehog33

Another vote for number 1 here.

gerry87

Thanks for all the opinions on the logo, I think I agree that that the first one is better, but I really don't think it's that great overall so I've put It up a competition up on Worth1000, can't wait to see what comes in, they're usually v good! I'll let you's know when they're up.

I went to the enterprise board in my college, they seemed positive about it and told me about a college competition, seems like a little workshop and dragons den type thing not exactly sure... but there's only like between 5 and 15 competitors allowed, so if i can do a good presentation i could get a little bit of funding.

Zascar

The worth 1000 guys do amazing work for logo's - you'll definitely get soemthing great from it

jazzy_jeff

Hi Guys,

So Gerry is at an enterprise competition today and tomorrow to pitch Swop-o-nomics, things are moving along nicely now. So wish him Luck, he'll be keeping us updated on how things go throughout the day.

Also the worth1000 logo comp has finished, you can check out the entries Here so do have a look and we'd love to know what you think.

Jeff

gerry87

Hey, took the idea in front of the dragons yesterday! Came second in Trinity College, no prizes but really happy cos there were some amazing businesses and ideas there, and didn't think it had gone well at all... dragons can be tough!

Also we should be getting an article about the site in next weeks Southside People newspaper, so really excited about that!

I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on the logo entries, some great ones there! Have to pick one by monday. http://www.worth1000.com/contest.asp?contest_id=23202&display=photoshop&page=5000#entries

gerry87

Hey, sorry for bumping this, but I've been thinking of an idea and i thought here would be a good place to bounce it off some people.

Here's the idea:
We're turning our thoughts to making a business out of the site, but budget is low so I thought of an idea that would be true to barter...

Basically, i propose to pledge €10,000 of the first €20,000 that we earn from the site to charity. What we would be asking in return, is that our members help us get to that point, not by donating money, but by donation of their services.

Haven't worked the details out, but basically we post up a list of things we need or could use, like some small web design jobs and help, some promotional material printed etc.

The benefit I am thinking it will have is that we hope to collect well below 10,000 worth of services. For example if we tot up the value of all the things we got, and it comes to 2k... then each individual basically donated 5 times the value of their service to charity (or more depending on what we decide on). Everyone who helps will be credited.

What I'm wondering is would it seem like we are simply trying to exploit a charity? How I would hope it to seem is that we would be adding value to peoples services so each person in effect gives more to charity than the service they provided was actually worth. Any thoughts?

(btw we started a blog swoponomics.wordpress.com)