Training for a Cork '09 Sub 3

Gringo78

As suggested in the title, I am intending to run my first marathon in Cork and am aiming for a sub 3hr marathon. I've decided to start a training log so that post June I can go back and disect where I went wrong! Sub 3 hr is ambitious at the moment but with under 13 weeks to go I think I have the time to get there. Ballycotton 10 on Sunday will tell me if I'm close enough on the pace for it. My main aim is to do a marathon, sub 3hr is my secondary goal and if its not on with 2 or 3 weeks to go before the marathon, I will set a more realistic goal time then.

I started running from scratch this time 12 months ago and have dropped my times steadily month by month and am still on a steep improvement curve and almost where I need to be at time wise. Up to a long run of 14 miles and will steadily up this week by week between now and June. Not following any particular marathon training schedule, I just make sure I train 6 times a week, with a long run, a speed session and a tempo run and the the other days are easy run fillers. I'm going to stick with this strategy for the moment.

Long runs are my hardest session to make the time for as I tend not to run saturdays/Sundays (other than for the odd race) but now that the mornings are getting longer i will start to do the long run on a weekday morning. Luckily have great places to run from the doorstep at work and a shower at work so that makes a big difference, lets me get out at luinchtime also for a 4/5 mile run.

So, won't be logging anything major here over the next few days as winding down for Ballycotton, but thats the last race i'll take seriously between now and the marathon - any others will just be tempo training sessions.

shels4ever

Best of luck with the log, Whats your current pb for the marathon?

Gringo78

Never done a marathon before. Did a 1:20 half in training about 7 years ago but got injured shortly after and never really ran again but i should still have the pace as was 23 yrs old then. Still need to lose about a stone before the marathon though

Krusty_Clown

Good luck with the training, and let us know how you get on in Balycotton.

Myggel

Don't want to rain on your parade but sub 3 hr first time out isn't that realistic. Also, the Cork route isn't the flattest by all accounts, I stand to be corrected.
I reckon first time out just aim to finish at the best pace you can. At least then you have a bench mark to improve upon. Going out too fast might wreck your second half and actually result in a worse time than if you pace yourself properly.

Also, make sure you get a proper pair of runners. I got mine in amphibian king in Bray. Wherever you get them, try to get them somewhere that checks your stride and gives you runners to take that into account. Well worth the effort. Nothing worse than blisters on the day, so pointless and avoidable.

Gringo78

Thanks for advice myggel. As i said i'll aim for sub 3 for now but will pick my race pace 2 weeks beforehand. Am also firm believer in consistent pace with slightly negative splits is best way to race.

village runner

Gringo78 wrote: »

Never done a marathon before. Did a 1:20 half in training about 7 years ago but got injured shortly after and never really ran again but i should still have the pace as was 23 yrs old then. Still need to lose about a stone before the marathon though

Once a runner always one.
If you could do that in training(1.20) you could have gone 2-3 min quickers in a race. Lose that stone and your a shoe in if you get back to that 2002 shape.
What your reckon you will do Ballycotton in ??

Gringo78

The stone will be hard to lose. Reckon 2lb a month is about all i can do which is only half stone by marathon therefore defo won't get back to 2002 shape by june. Aiming for sub 65 for ballycotton

Gringo78

40min on elliptical trainer in gym this morning. Having trouble with left soleus recently and trying to rest it a for a few days before ballycotton and find the elliptical trainer good for keeping the spirits up when not running. Took great resolve though not to hop off and onto a treadmill though

chinguetti

Gringo78, all the best with the training for the sub 3 hours for Cork. Doing it myself and its my first marathon too. I'm following a plan for under 4 hours and training going ok but should know more about how realistic that is after Connemara Half in 2 weeks.

Gringo78

Cheers Chinguettit. Best of luck with the training, first marathon is daunting. Too early to think about time yet, Connemara will give you an idea but if you don't have a previous base of running of running for years, the marathon training itself will be improving you week on week anyway, so don't get caught up in times until closer to June. it is important to pick the correct time to aim for though.

Gringo78

Didn't do anything on Saturday in light of ballycotton on Sunday. Ran 68min so was better than my Mallow 10 time anyways. Had to make a toilet stop at 7miles and was really dying to go from about mile 4. Never had to make a stop before but I learned anyways I should have just stopped when I had to as I felt much better after doing so. finished strong with my fastest mile of the race at the end so was happy with that. Have done very little running on the raod over the last 4 weeks due to injury but am ok today so will try to get out of the gym and back on the roads now.

Gringo78

Just over 5 miles this morning on the treadmill at 8:00min/ml pace. felt good after it as legs felt ok for first time in a good number of weeks. Spent a good 15min stretching afterwards and some core exercises.
Will go for a swim this evening to try to loosen out the last of the stiffness from Ballycotton and should be good for a hill session tomorrow then.

Gringo78

Went for a swim yesterday evening after work.....did about 12 lengths is all, hadn't been swimming in years and its something I always hated doing but quite enjoyed it. Might try now to go at least once a week, would love to do a sprint triathlon next year maybe and I think it could take me that long to build up the swimming! I'd say i've never done more than 12 lengths in my life.

Did 5 miles on the treadmill this morning starting at a very easy pace building up very slowly to 7:00min/ml. Read a post by somebody a few weeks ago about Running like a Kenyan and how they train and one of the things they do is build up their pace very slowly from almost a stumble on every run. Can't argue with the results of their training! so taking those points on board. Felt good after the run and looking back on things, I don't think i ever realy warmed up properly. Started out at 10min/ml pace and took 10 mins to get to 7:45min/ml pace. I'd normally belt away into my desired pace after 2 or 3 min warmup.

Gringo78

Football last night and was a bit sore this morning, only did 15min easy on the treadmill then this morning (I was a bit slow out of bed this morning so it was all I had time for) and some stretching and core work. Calf is holding up good though now that I'm looking after it more and stretching the Soleus which is what I was missing.

Gringo78

6 miles at lunchtime today out on the road...7:40 pace overall and kept it steady, no ill effects after which was good as I'm trying to move back towards doing the bulk of my running on the road.

Gringo78

No running on saturday as usual. Did 4 miles on the road on Sunday, v.easy 8min/ml but felt tough although that was prob cos there were a few hills (ran a route I hadn't ran before). A 5 mile walk on Tuesday with teh OH and then gym this morning - Yasso 800's at 6min/ml pace. Could only do 4 complete and couldn't complete the 5th. Twas my first time doing them since Jan so will try to do it once a week now increasing by 1 a week. Some stretching and core exercises after then.

Gringo78

Week 11 Miles Summary (March 9th to 15th 2009
M – 0 T – 5 W – 5 T – 2.5 F – 6 S - 0 S – 4
22.5 miles

Gringo78

7 miles @ 7:40 pace this morning out on the road rather than the gym...twas good to get out in the fresh air for a change.

Gringo78

3.5 miles on the treadmill this morning at 8:00 pace. Calf was feeling a bit sore yesterday after running on the road so was in 2 minds about actually running this morning but went with it and was all fine

Gringo78

8 miles @7:40 pace this morning on the road. Purging all the alcohol of the weekend from the system. Felt very good.

Gringo78

7 miles @7:40 pace this morning on the road. Going to build up to miles now in the mornings and go from predominately 4/5 mile runs to 7/8 mile runs and longer. Was mostly doing less than 20 miles per week in '08 and since start of december in '08 was only averaging 10-15 miles per week so need to step it up between now and the marathon in June (carefully)

Gringo78

Week 12 Miles Summary (March 16th to 22nd 2009
M – 0 T – 0 W – 4 T – 7 F – 3.5 S - 0 S – 0
14.5 miles

Gringo78

6.25 miles @ 7:50 pace this morning. Took it nice and easy and no problems with calf so was good. Its been a while since I'd even done 2 consecutive days on the road so was in 2 minds about whether to go to the gym this morning or go out on the road. Glad I chose the road.

Gringo78

6.6 miles @ 8:00 pace this morning. Thought I was flying it at the start but when I turned into the wind for the final 2 miles it was tough....was barely making forward progress the wind was so strong.

Got a new pair of runners Asics GT2140s....trying them out as a lighter, cheaper option to Kayano 14's which is what I have been using, seemed fine this morning so so far so good.

Gringo78

27th March

Just over 10 miles @ 7:45 pace, over half in the woods on trails. Great run except for getting caught in a small hail shower!

Gringo78

Week 13 Miles Summary (March 23rd to 29th 2009)
M – 8 T – 7 W – 6.25 T – 6.6 F – 10 S - 0 S – 0
37.85 miles

Gringo78

30th March

8.75 miles @ 7:30 pace this morning. Felt great, must have been the rest on sat/sun after increasing the training a bit last week.

Gringo78

31st March

6.85 miles @ 7:45 pace this morning. Felt a bit tired this morning and couldn't drag myself out of bed as early as normal.

Gringo78

6.8 miles this morning @7:45 pace overall but threw in 2 x 1 min at 6:00 pace when i was in the woods cos I've done no speed or tempo runs of any description in the last 2 weeks and thinking about running a 10k on Sunday.

Gringo78

6.85 miles this morning @ 7:30 pace. Had a few pints last night so wasn't expecting to be great but was grand. Weather is so good these mornings, great to be out running.

kennyb3

when are you planning on steppingup the distance of some of your runs? you dont seem to be doing any long ones and surely your shorter ones need to be bit faster if you want sub 3?

like i would run 8 miles @ 7.30 pace, its a big effort for me tho, and are probt tanking along doing that. im only a beginner tho and hope for about 3:40 in the DCM

not trying to put a dampner on things and suggesting your not on schedule just interested in your thought process/plan.

Gringo78

I'm not sure I neccessarily am on schedule but I'm coming from a period in Jan/Feb when I was barely able to run on the road at all. I am being very careful about what pace I run at the moment as I am stepping up the overall weekly mileage so want to be sure I am injury fere and not push it too hard. My last 'long' run would have been in early March, 14 mile @ 7:45 pace. I did a 10 miler the day after that at 7:30 pace and was very sore (shouldn't have done either run as I was injured)

After Ballycotton I decided I'd look after myself and up the mileage without any very long runs or speed work/intervals etc for about 3 weeks. I've gone over that 3 weeks now so will try to do a 16miler next week. My pace at the moment is deliberately held back but at the moment I am definetly not in sub 3hr shape - I feel though i'm running very strong at the moment and the morning runs at 7:30-7:45 pace are feeling really easy and relaxed. Sent in my entry for Cork marathon during the week and was a bit worried though when I realised the marathon is less than 9 weeks away!

Gringo78

40:00 for the UCC 10k today so very pleased with that. 7 miles today with warmups.

Gringo78

5.4 miles @7:35 pace this morning. No niggles from yesterdays race so great that I really do seem to be over the calf problems.

Gringo78

Week 14 Miles Summary (March 30th to April 5th 2009)
M – 8.75 T – 6.85 W – 6.8 T – 0 F – 6.85 S - 0 S – 7
36.3 miles

Killerz

Hi Gringo 78,

It seems like you've been getting through a fair amount of miles alright, but there really is nothing like getting up to the mid to late teens in terms of mileage on a single run, as thats where the body starts asking the questions! I think if you're feeling injuries coming up to these totals at the moment maybe you're pushing a bit too hard. worry less about the pace and more about getting in miles at this stage - its only 7 or 8 weeks to go, and 2 of those weeks will likely be lower mileage "taper" weeks.

I'm also doing the Cork Marathon this year (my second marathon after Dublin - time 3:48, last year), so am trying to get in the miles myself at the moment. Would love to get somewhere in between 3:30 - 3:40 for this one. However, I am away in Italy for a wedding the week before, but hopefully the hard work will be done by then, and I'll be tapering! Tapering with some fine Italian cuisine and wine!

Well done on the 40 min 10k - I'm looking to break that barrier myself - got 40:24 in Great Ireland Run on same day as your UCC.

Best of luck in the run up and indeed in the Marathon itself.

Gringo78

Great time on the 10k Run Killerz, I'd say it was hard to post a fast time at that race also with the crowds, lots of traffic to get through at the start.

Agree totally on the long runs, I really have to start to find the time now to do longer runs otherwise it'll be a painful learning experience on June 1st. Just back from holidays so have to get back on track now.

Best of luck in Cork and best of luck with the training until then

Gringo78

8 miles this morning @ 7:35 pace. Have been away on holidays so hadn't run in over a week and was happy with the run, not too many ill effects of the week off. Did plenty of swimming during the week which helped.

kevinkilbane

hi gringo 78.
i just read the whole thread. you are a good runner, excellent pace for 10k, and your training is done very good times, especially today, 8miles @7.35, fair play to ya. even though you are doing well, i really dont see how you will break 3hours for a marathon. if you do, congrats, and will you coach me please????? ha
but 179.59/26.2= 6:51 minutes per mile on average. it doesnt sound easy.

i am 24, i did cork last year, it was my 6th marathon. ive done belfast and dublin too, but cork is the hardest. first off, cork city centre is very hilly, a mile in the marathon is in the jack lynch tunnel, and also, its the bank holiday in june, too warm. i got 3.58, just made the 4hour. ill be happy with 3.59 this year. hopefully get a bit of rain too, then ill be laughing.

keep up the good training, best of luck in the first marathon.

--amadeus--

Please treat this post as a reality check - I'm not trying to take a cheap pop at you, knock you down or belittle you or your efforts. But I do think you need to stop and have a hard think about your targets and ambitions.

Sub 3 in a marathon is a big ask. Sub 3 in Cork (a relatively hilly race on a potentially hot day) is even harder. Sub 3 in your début marathon in Cork is even tougher. Sub 3 on your début in Cork off no long runs is virtually impossible.

For example I have run 9 marathons, I did 3*20 milers and 2*21 milers and clocked a 38:41 10k a couple of weeks before my last marathon. I ran 3:06. Slogger Jogger averaged 90kms per week for 16 weeks and ran 3:36 (though his PB is 3:06). Peckham and Sungod are two very talented and experienced runners who put in an average of 50+ miles per week before running 3:00 and 3:01. Road Runner - who runs sub 3 pretty easily - considers 6:30 min/miles to be pretty easy.

You have 6 or 7 weeks of proper training left before the taper for Cork and it looks like you have peaked at around 10 miles. With all due respect I think you need to sit down and have a read though some of the other logs on here and see the volumes of work that runners at the 3 hour mark put in and teh speeds they average. Compare it to your own log and maybe re-think your goals. Maybe aim at Dublin rather than Cork and build the mileage between now and then? Or set a more conservative target for Cork?

Like I said I don't want to be a huge negative and feel free to ignore this. But I know what it's like to run a marathon unprepared and it is very, very painful. Good luck with it regardless and if you want any advice on what you should be doing between now and Cork feel free to yell, either here or on the main forum.

kevinkilbane

good point amadeus.
if you wanna race long distance, youve just gotta train long distance.
and since its your first marathon, you do not know how your legs/feet/hips/back/arms etc will feel at 19miles+. and ya dont know what would be going through your head towards the end of a marathon either, i tell ya, it aint all rainbows and butterflies, especially in cork.

Gringo78

Agree with all of the above. However, I have said in an earlier post that I will decide my pace 2 weeks before the marathon. My goal is still sub 3 but I have a very good idea of what I am capable of any given week and I'm not capable of that right now and I probably won't be capable of it come June 1st, but I will pace myself for what I am capable of then whether that be 3:00 or 3:30. I'll get a few long runs in over the next few weeks and see where I'm at. This won't be my last marathon as I consider myself at the start of my running life so I'm not caught up on time although I have to set myself a tough target to motivate myself to keep training. If I ever achieve that (and I'm sure I will at some point, maybe just not this year) I will continue to set further time targets.

Gringo78

Ran 4 mile race yesterday evening. Had done 8 miles in the morning and a 2 mile warmup before the race so considering I already had 10 miles done before the race I was very happy with 25:35 as I had a lot left in the tank at the end. Did a further 2 mile cooldown so 16 miles yesterday. no ill effects today so thats good. No running this morning as will do a long slow run this afternoon.

Gringo78

13.5 miles yesterday evening at 7:40 pace. Hadn't intended going out running but as I was late at work on Friday never got to go running as intended on friday. Normally don't go running at the weekend but will try to make time for it over the next few weeks.
The run yesterday evening felt very easy and no ill effects today so will pace a little better on the shorter 8 mile runs now at maybe 7:15 pace and see how that goes.

Gringo78

11.75 miles @7:45 pace this morning. Felt a bit tired starting out but a few miles in and i felt fine. Forgot to drink anything when i got up in the morning (I never eat anything before the morning runs but always have a few glasses of water when i get up) so was thinking I might fade after 10 but I was fine

MCOS

What benefit do you see in doing 13+m and 12m runs at the same pace on consecutive days?

Have you re-evaluated your sub 3 goal yet?

Not having a poke here, I admire the courageous goal you have set yourself (given that you once showed the pace necessary)... just wondering when reality is going to set in for you Gringo78

Gringo78

The 2 runs were actually not on consecutive days - they were Sunday & Tuesday. They both fall into the category of Endurance training - Easy Run and are I think the type of run I should be doing the most of i.e 80-90% of my weekly mileage should be this type of run. I will do a race this week which will count as a tempo run. I will also do a Long Run either Friday or the weekend if work rules out friday. From here to the marathon, I have to continue with my base endurance miles and get in the Long Runs. I will do one speed session a week if at all.

Sub 3 is still my target....however, I'll need a big improvement and more consitency in my training between now and June and also some key races for me will tell me if I've improved enough to aim for it on the day. The John Treacy 10 mile is on May 17th and I will probably base my target time for Cork on my performance in that race. A 63min 10 mile and I will definetly aim for Sub 3, anything higher than 64min and i will not go for it.

heffsarmy

Miracle if you go sub 3! but with 6 weeks left you really should know your marathon pace, setting your marathon pace 2 weeks before your marathon not a good idea, since this is your first. You will find it very tough to do a 63min 10mile based on your UCC 10k time. This will take alot out off you, 3 to 4 weeks should be the taper for the marathon not racing hard. You will get caught out at around the 17mile as you have'nt got enough Endurance runs, 13.5 seems to be your longest, which in fairness for marathon training would'nt do much for your endurance. With 3 weeks left for proper training and the other 3weeks for taper, I would do a 17mile run this wk, 19mile next wk and a 20mile week after and forget about 10mile race, and with this plan you might break 3.15. Good luck in anyway!

Gringo78

Will go for those long runs over the next 3 weeks but may not be able to resist the temptation of racing the 10 miler. Only doing a 2 week taper so 4 weeks training left and then I'll know what shape I'm in. The long runs will tell me a lot (i.e should have done more and earlier). I will likely continue on with marathon training though over the summer and do Dublin Marathon so if Sub 3 is not to be this time, I will still have the goal.

SUNGOD

hi gringo best of luck in cork
its great to have goals and if they were easy to accomplish where would the the satisfaction and glory be.
you know you havent done enough so far in regards long runs etc but in the remaining weeks you can inhance your chances of a better finishing time by putting in some good sessions.
apart from elite runners i think its very hard to go sub 3 in your first marathon regardless of training.
my only worry would be starting too fast and suffering in the second half but if you do the 10 mile race you will have a much better idea of marathon pace.
as you said yourself you always have dublin to improve on your cork time.
looking forward to seeing how you progress
best of luck with it