Why do british citizens have an automatic right to vote in irish Dail elections

TomRooney

does anyone know why british citizens have a right to vote in our general elections, it kinda gives the impression we never realy gained independance, but where just granted the right to say we are independant without truly being so.

in my opinion nobody from a foriegn country should have a right to vote in irish general elections. unless of course they become Irish citizens.

is_that_so

We get to vote in theirs due to the Ireland Act 1949,and we reciprocated in 1985, so what's the problem?

livvy

TomRooney wrote: »

in my opinion nobody from a foriegn country should have a right to vote in irish general elections. unless of course they become Irish citizens.

guessing those who live in Northern Ireland may have a different view

LordSutch

TomRooney wrote: »

Why do british citizens have an automatic right to vote in irish Dail elections.

It works both ways, doesn't it?

mike65

No taxation with representation.

amacachi

TomRooney wrote: »

does anyone know why british citizens have a right to vote in our general elections, it kinda gives the impression we never realy gained independance, but where just granted the right to say we are independant without truly being so.

in my opinion nobody from a foriegn country should have a right to vote in irish general elections. unless of course they become Irish citizens.

Want some salt and vinegar for that chip on your shoulder?

andrewh5

is_that_so wrote: »

We get to vote in theirs due to the Ireland Act 1949,and we reciprocated in 1985, so what's the problem?

+1. Methinks someone needs to remove the log from his shoulder.

djpbarry

TomRooney wrote: »

does anyone know why british citizens have a right to vote in our general elections...

Some of 'em even marry our wimmens too.

Kev_ps3

TomRooney wrote: »

does anyone know why british citizens have a right to vote in our general elections, it kinda gives the impression we never realy gained independance, but where just granted the right to say we are independant without truly being so.

in my opinion nobody from a foriegn country should have a right to vote in irish general elections. unless of course they become Irish citizens.

I dont fully understand, could you explain further?

Fratton Fred

djpbarry wrote: »

Some of 'em even marry our wimmens too.

The Bastards should be strung up......oh!

T runner

Its a fair question that nobody has really answered yet.

While there is a border in this country there will always be "traditionally close links" to Britain as described as the reason for the voting rights in that linked document.

Answer is that we cant be independant from Britain while there is a border in Ireland.

Perhaps this was something that should have been updated in recent agreements to allow NI residents to vote here and vice versa (asssembly elections) while excluding Britain? May have made it slightly more sensicle.


The farcical situation at present where Northern Ireland is currently the region of the UK performing best economically because of their current parasitic position in Ireland yet again makes a nonsense of having a border in such a small country.

While you have a border in Ireland you will have anomalies like foreigners allowed vote here and economic inbalances due to seperate currencies in an island the size of Scotland.

Anyone replying with 'chip on the shoulder' comments to this clearly doesnt have a strong enough argument to refute in any reasonable or fair way.

r0nanf

Kintarō Hattori

Enough with the Britain bashing. I think it's actually pretty cool that we have such a close relationship with them. We get benefits from it, they do too, it's all cool.

Mr.Micro

We have a special relationship with the UK which is why we never needed a passport to visit the UK and vice versa, which might explain the OP question. I have no problems with it and tunnel vision is so last century.

mike65

T runner wrote: »

The farcical situation at present where Northern Ireland is currently the region of the UK performing best economically because of their current parasitic position in Ireland yet again makes a nonsense of having a border in such a small country.

Thats got little to do with NI/ROI approximation and everything to do with the huge public sector "economy" that NI enjoys as compared to Britain.

Pride Fighter

T runner wrote: »

While you have a border in Ireland you will have anomalies like foreigners allowed vote here

Any EU citizen is allowed vote in the local elections. British citizens are allowed vote in both local and GE. What is wrong with that, they are our neighbours and always will.

A Dub in Glasgo

I have voted in British general elections since I came here. I also believe British citizens can vote in their own general election when living abroad (certain time period). Irish citizens cannot and if they do not live in the UK, they are effectively disenfranshied from voting in any general election.

diverdriver

Why are British allowed to vote in our elections? Because 75% of the voters agreed to change the constitution and allow it in 1985. It's the democratic will of the Irish people, not some kind of post colonial throwback or an assault on our independence. Remember this was during the troubles.

It's worth pointing that many of these British citizens were in fact of Irish ancestry.

Long before it was voted in, a certain politican knocked on the door of an Englishman of my acquaintence during an election. The Englishman pointed out he couldn't vote and asked when they were going to do something about it. Later that day, a couple of polling cards were dropped through his door. It's seems you only had to ask.:D Those were the days!

This was only fair as we were always allowed to vote in their elections and travel over and I might add, sign on their dole, get council houses and all the other benefits the British gave to their own citizens.

In any case describing the British as 'foreigners' is plain silly, particularly as we lay claim to a lot of those 'foreigners' in the North. T runner we are independant of Britain, if you ever needed proof of it, look at our own independant economic mess right now.

Gruffalo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I have voted in British general elections since I came here. I also believe British citizens can vote in their own general election when living abroad (certain time period). Irish citizens cannot and if they do not live in the UK, they are effectively disenfranshied from voting in any general election.

I understand your point but there are estimates of up to 80 million Irish citizens in the world as until the last 15 years or so you could qualify for Irish citizenship through a great grandparent. If all those people were allowed to vote, people who have never set foot in the country could have more say than those living there. This affects me too as I am not living in Ireland either, but I would rather miss out on my vote than have some right wing yankee fool, who knows jacksh*t about Ireland, determining out future. Although if there were restrictions like time period, time spent living in Ireland then I too would love to have the vote.

I too have voted in the UK. I think all the Irish over here should have a common strategy. For a laugh we should all vote the BNP into power as they would wreck the joint quicker than we ever could.

Darragh29

TomRooney wrote: »

does anyone know why british citizens have a right to vote in our general elections, it kinda gives the impression we never realy gained independance, but where just granted the right to say we are independant without truly being so.

in my opinion nobody from a foriegn country should have a right to vote in irish general elections. unless of course they become Irish citizens.

We should get a ship load of them over here for the next election, we might get rid of FF then...

TomRooney

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Enough with the Britain bashing. I think it's actually pretty cool that we have such a close relationship with them. We get benefits from it, they do too, it's all cool.

the "special" relationship you speak of consists of the british government invading our land by force, murdering thousands of innocents over centurys of occupation, raping our land, women, economy, culture, the least they could do is give us free travel to there country after 800 years of oppression, not to mention they still occupy the north eastern part of our country with 5000 thousand british troops.

if you think this is "cool" then God help us all.

mike65

Ah no, your one of them

luckyfrank

Off topic slightly but i was fascinated to read about protestant communities in east donegal these are irish people in the eyes of the law but they consider themselves british it must be strange for them they after all cannot opt for a british passport

http://www.eastdonegalulsterscots.com/

One wonders why these people can live in peace and harmony with there catholic neighbours and only a few miles away we've had 30 years of hatred and violence

TomRooney

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Any EU citizen is allowed vote in the local elections. British citizens are allowed vote in both local and GE. What is wrong with that, they are our neighbours and always will.

i just think it is a bit ironic that the 26 countys claim they gained independance from britain, yet aside from a different flag nothing has changed since british occupation.

also i dont think any foriegn citizen should have an automatic right to vote in an election that could determine the future of irish citizens.

local elections are of little importance GE and dail elections are what realy matter. in the grand scheme of things i mean.

TomRooney

mike65 wrote: »

Ah no, your one of them

yes i am, i am a proud Irish man, educated in his nations culture and history....well spotted.

TomRooney

luckyfrank wrote: »

Off topic slightly but i was fascinated to read about protestant communities in east donegal these are irish people in the eyes of the law but they consider themselves british it must be strange for them they after all cannot opt for a british passport

http://www.eastdonegalulsterscots.com/

One wonders why these people can live in peace and harmony with there catholic neighbours and only a few miles away we've had 30 years of hatred and violence

because a few miles away the briitish government drew up artificial boundrys, around 4 majority unionist countys and 2 nationalist countys, thus creating a gerrymandered illegal statelet.

no Republican has a problem with unionists calling themselves british, they do however have a problem with unionists claiming any part of Ireland to be British.

luckyfrank

TomRooney wrote: »

i just think it is a bit ironic that the 26 countys claim they gained independance from britain, yet aside from a different flag nothing has changed since british occupation.

also i dont think any foriegn citizen should have an automatic right to vote in an election that could determine the future of irish citizens.

local elections are of little importance GE and dail elections are what realy matter. in the grand scheme of things i mean.

For a start britain has changed alot since occupation i quite like english scottish and welsh people and apart from my own people id have more in commen with these than any other

The northern situation isnt a problem between the british mainland and the island of ireland anymore its a problem between two different but also closly related set of irish people

asdasd

Tom my man. The British allow us to vote in the their general elections. We recipicrate . Thats all. I agree that the British Empire was not a walk in the park with balloons for us, but things are different now. The English are rather cool actually, and their upper class wimmin are kinky, pretty, and smart, so whats not to like?

So lets let the feckers vote. And if we want some payback we could all send them to special voting stations where all the literature and voting slips are as Gaelige.

Kintarō Hattori

TomRooney wrote: »

the "special" relationship you speak of consists of the british government invading our land by force, murdering thousands of innocents over centurys of occupation, raping our land, women, economy, culture, the least they could do is give us free travel to there country after 800 years of oppression, not to mention they still occupy the north eastern part of our country with 5000 thousand british troops.

if you think this is "cool" then God help us all.

Thanks for the misquote. I said close not special. I'm sad to see you're living in the past.

Pride Fighter

TomRooney wrote: »

the "special" relationship you speak of consists of the british government invading our land by force, murdering thousands of innocents over centurys of occupation, raping our land, women, economy, culture, the least they could do is give us free travel to there country after 800 years of oppression, not to mention they still occupy the north eastern part of our country with 5000 thousand british troops.

if you think this is "cool" then God help us all.

Ask yourself this question, how am I a Catholic?? Dont you remember St. Patrick was kidnapped by Irish slavers. There is evidence, archaeological and annalistic that we oppressed them far longer than them us. Look up the etymology of Scotland, it means the land of the Irish.

If you think it is cool wiping out Welsh villages and taking slaves as well as occupying a huge tract of Northern Brtian, god help us.

Pride Fighter

TomRooney wrote: »

yes i am, i am a proud Irish man, educated in his nations culture and history....well spotted.

If that is true, you know what I said is true

Ask yourself this question, how am I a Catholic?? Dont you remember St. Patrick was kidnapped by Irish slavers. There is evidence, archaeological and annalistic that we oppressed them far longer than them us. Look up the etymology of Scotland, it means the land of the Irish.

If you think it is cool wiping out Welsh villages and taking slaves as well as occupying a huge tract of Northern Brtian, god help us.

turgon

Before this get locked I just want to make an on-topic point.

For British Citizens to vote here they need to be resident here, afaik. Its same vica versa - if I was resident in England I could vote there.

SO far from the "brits" taking over us, its actually just the people who are livng in Ireland get to vote. Shock horror that someone living here would actually be represented.

The way some people talked here youd think the black and tans manned the polling stations.

asdasd

There is evidence, archaeological and annalistic that we oppressed them far longer than them us. Look up the etymology of Scotland, it means the land of the Irish.

No, there isn't. Clearly Ireland didnt "occupy" anywhere since the nation did not exist until 1921, Scotland was influenced by Irish culture but there was no genocides, or mass killings ( that is never the case before the modern age) Irish taking of slaves ended with Patrick ( although our Viking friends ran slave markets in Dublin), and the Welsh ( properly the Britons) had a lot more to fear from the Anglo Saxons. not that they were genocidal either.

luckyfrank

This a question to unionists

I have wondered about this for a while i want to know what/why do you's have such a big obsession for maintaining the union..... What is the big deal about the mainland ?

I cant fathom it i really cant

Pride Fighter

asdasd wrote: »

No, there isn't. Clearly Ireland didnt "occupy" anywhere since the nation did not exist until 1921, Scotland was influenced by Irish culture but there was no genocides, or mass killings ( that is never the case before the modern age) Irish taking of slaves ended with Patrick ( although our Viking friends ran slave markets in Dublin), and the Welsh ( properly the Britons) had a lot more to fear from the Anglo Saxons. not that they were genocidal either.

Typical Shinner response, I'll say no more, this thread seems to be going nowhere and will probably be locked.

Mr.Micro

I'm sad to see you're living in the past

About 1798 or before I would say.

Mr.Micro

luckyfrank wrote: »

This a question to unionists

I have wondered about this for a while i want to know what/why do you's have such a big obsession for maintaining the union..... What is the big deal about the mainland ?

I cant fathom it i really cant

I may be wrong but its probably something to do with the old slogan Home rule being Rome rule and to keep themselves intact and undiluted as Protestants/loyalists they have to be linked to the mainland.

asdasd

Typical Shinner response, I'll say no more, this thread seems to be going nowhere and will probably be locked.

Hilarious. I am far from a shinner. Read my previous post where I disagree with the OP.

I gave the actually history of Ireland, and Britain which made your manufactured "we invaded them and wiped them out" history seem very foolish indeed.

To make you look even more foolish I am now going to post a link to the history of the part of Scotland which was influenced by Irish Culture, the Dal Riatha,where you will find that there is a common culture between north eastern Ireland and Scotland going back centuries. In fact some historians think Gaelic originated simultaneously there and here.

Clearly there is no Gaelic influence on Wales, and England. Although I doubt you could find either on the map given your "understanding" of history.

Feel free in future to actually research history before you post "historical" posts.

asdasd

Home rule being Rome rule and to keep themselves intact and undiluted as Protestants/loyalists they have to be linked to the mainland.

They want to be contected to their nation-state, just as (many) Catholics would like to be united in Ireland. Of course they look to the UK, the UK is the reason they are there.

acontadino

because of the uk we can't join the schengen zone..seriously **** off uk out of ireland, i absolutely despise that country so much.

luckyfrank

asdasd wrote: »

They want to be contected to their nation-state, just as (many) Catholics would like to be united in Ireland. Of course they look to the UK, the UK is the reason they are there.

But can they not retain these cultures and traditions within the land they came to and in todays terms they have more incommen with us in the south than those over the water

If a unionist can cheer on a united irish rugby team and be passionate about ireland as a whole as two peoples and cultures coming together as one what is stoping us from seeing progress on politcal front

luckyfrank

acontadino wrote: »

because of the uk we can't join the schengen zone..seriously **** off uk out of ireland, i absolutely despise that country so much.

Your a sad man if you have nothing constructive to say say nothing at all

Mr.Micro

luckyfrank wrote: »

But can they not retain these cultures and traditions within the land they came to and in todays terms they have more incommen with us in the south than those over the water

If a unionist can cheer on a united irish rugby team and be passionate about ireland as a whole as two peoples and cultures coming together as one what is stoping us from seeing progress on politcal front

To my mind things and perceptions have changed fro the better and will continue to with most but the hardliners. We are no longer priest ridden in the south and more open as a society.

cherrypicker555

TomRooney wrote: »

does anyone know why british citizens have a right to vote in our general elections, it kinda gives the impression we never realy gained independance, but where just granted the right to say we are independant without truly being so.

in my opinion nobody from a foriegn country should have a right to vote in irish general elections. unless of course they become Irish citizens.

just had a brainwave to write a sit com, like an Irish version of Alf Garnett.

Fratton Fred

acontadino wrote: »

because of the uk we can't join the schengen zone..seriously **** off uk out of ireland, i absolutely despise that country so much.

how come? last I heard, Ireland is free to do whatever it likes.

Fratton Fred

turgon wrote: »

Before this get locked I just want to make an on-topic point.

For British Citizens to vote here they need to be resident here, afaik. Its same vica versa - if I was resident in England I could vote there.

SO far from the "brits" taking over us, its actually just the people who are livng in Ireland get to vote. Shock horror that someone living here would actually be represented.

The way some people talked here youd think the black and tans manned the polling stations.

exactly. British citizens can vote if they are resident, in all elections apart from referendums.

It's not like Nigel from Birmingham can nip over, vote for screaming lord such and nip home again. (Although Screaming Lord Such would be a massive improvement on the current shower).

Fratton Fred

Mr.Micro wrote: »

To my mind things and perceptions have changed fro the better and will continue to with most but the hardliners. We are no longer priest ridden in the south and more open as a society.

as demonstrated in the following posts?

acontadino wrote: »

because of the uk we can't join the schengen zone..seriously **** off uk out of ireland, i absolutely despise that country so much.

TomRooney wrote: »

the "special" relationship you speak of consists of the british government invading our land by force, murdering thousands of innocents over centurys of occupation, raping our land, women, economy, culture, the least they could do is give us free travel to there country after 800 years of oppression, not to mention they still occupy the north eastern part of our country with 5000 thousand british troops.

if you think this is "cool" then God help us all.

TomRooney wrote: »

because a few miles away the briitish government drew up artificial boundrys, around 4 majority unionist countys and 2 nationalist countys, thus creating a gerrymandered illegal statelet.

no Republican has a problem with unionists calling themselves british, they do however have a problem with unionists claiming any part of Ireland to be British.

luckyfrank

Would you support a united ireland fred ?

luckyfrank

Does anybody know a unionist forum or chatroom i could go to if so could you please PM one thanks

Fratton Fred

luckyfrank wrote: »

Would you support a united ireland fred ?

If that is what people want then I'd support it. I am not fussed either way tbh.

Red Sleeping Beauty

acontadino wrote: »

because of the uk we can't join the schengen zone..seriously **** off uk out of ireland, i absolutely despise that country so much.

There's a proposal to tighten up border controls between Ireland and the UK. It's not because of the UK at all that we can't join the Schengen zone....

Who cares anyway ? what have you got to gain from it?

Fratton Fred wrote: »

how come? last I heard, Ireland is free to do whatever it likes.

When Ireland became a free state in 1922 there was no law written to state that you needed a passport to travel between the United Kingdom of Great Britain and NI and Eire.

In 1997 ROI wrote a law that meant you needed photo identification at border controls.

At present there is a "common travel zone"

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/moving-abroad/freedom-of-movement-within-the-eu/common_travel_area_between_ireland_and_the_UK

T runner wrote: »

Its a fair question that nobody has really answered yet.

While there is a border in this country there will always be "traditionally close links" to Britain as described as the reason for the voting rights in that linked document.

Answer is that we cant be independant from Britain while there is a border in Ireland.

Perhaps this was something that should have been updated in recent agreements to allow NI residents to vote here and vice versa (asssembly elections) while excluding Britain? May have made it slightly more sensicle.


The farcical situation at present where Northern Ireland is currently the region of the UK performing best economically because of their current parasitic position in Ireland yet again makes a nonsense of having a border in such a small country.

While you have a border in Ireland you will have anomalies like foreigners allowed vote here and economic inbalances due to seperate currencies in an island the size of Scotland.

Anyone replying with 'chip on the shoulder' comments to this clearly doesnt have a strong enough argument to refute in any reasonable or fair way.

We can't be independant from Britain unless you want to leave the 6counties behind. And there's plenty of people who've killed, died and complained for decades for that not to happen.
It's not really a "fair" question as such... there's no need for the question. It's been answered.

What do you mean about Scotland ? Scotland isn't an island. It's very close in technical terms to being it's own country. It's got it's own bank, it's own laws (and history of Scot's Law and Common Laws) and they've their own parliament and can pass their own laws.

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Enough with the Britain bashing. I think it's actually pretty cool that we have such a close relationship with them. We get benefits from it, they do too, it's all cool.

I agree. There's a very nihilitic moronic attitude attached to this , along the lines of the "brits out" rubbish that we had for years...

Fact is Ireland for the last 15 years has been a part of globalisation. It's a bit late to start whinging about the tired old patriotism nonsense.
Ireland has it's own head of state - The President - and can impliment any rules and laws and do whatever it wants within the 26 counties. As for the other 6, this is where the "close relationship" comes in.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I have voted in British general elections since I came here. I also believe British citizens can vote in their own general election when living abroad (certain time period). Irish citizens cannot and if they do not live in the UK, they are effectively disenfranshied from voting in any general election.

How exactly do you go about it ? Do you have to be residing in the UK for a certain period before you can vote in elections? What elections can you actually vote in ? Do you need to provide a passport to prove your nationality ?

UK citizens can only vote in certain elections here, I can't remember which ... perhaps they can't vote in presidential elections ? Not sure...