Triumph Spitfire

PIMPHO

Hi,

Looking to buy a good condition Triumph Spitfire, preferably in red.

Any advice or suggestions welcome.

Cheers

Hifive

There was one for sale here on Boards a few weeks ago.
Might be worth sending a pm to see if he still has it.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055460600&highlight=spitfire

Dades

PIMPHO wrote: »

Looking to buy a good condition Triumph Spitfire, preferably in red.

Bonnie, meet Clyde:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055460600


EDIT: Damn you HiFive!

gfwd

Nice car, but 8.5k for a Spitfire? Hmmm.

Keep your eye on Carzone.ie or even the buy and sell website. Better still, either contact the Triumph owners club here or maybe Triumph Sports Six club in the UK for advice. They'll have cars for sale through their membership. Also worth picking up 'Triumph World' magazine. Comes out at the end of each month. Should be in the shops around now. Good luck!

Hifive

Dades wrote: »

Bonnie, meet Clyde:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055460600


EDIT: Damn you HiFive!

Beat ya by 1 minute
Na na, na na na:D

PIMPHO

Think the seller has lowered the price to €5,800 now but still over priced in my opinion and out of my price range. I text her to see if it was still for sale just out curiousity but no reply yet.

Have looked into buying from the UK but don't fancy the long drive to the port and long journey back on the ferry. But saying that, the prices in UK are cheaper than in Ireland (what isn't?!) and there are alot more cars to choose from. What would be the average price of a good condition Spitfire? I'm working on a budget of around €3.5k.

How would I go about contacting the Triumph Owners Club here?

Thanks for all your advice and suggestions.

gfwd

http://www.triumphclassicownersclubireland.ie/

This months Triumph World has at least half a dozen red Spitties for sale. There's a couple for around UK£1200, which is pretty cheap if you're happy to buy a good car that is MOT'd but needing a little cosmetic work. £2.5-3k should get you a car that'll need little or no work. I think half the fun of buying a car in the UK is flying over and driving it back. Find one in Wales and it shouldn't be too long a drive to Holyhead. There are also transport companies both here and in the UK who will collect it for you. I used McArdles in Ardee to collect my Dolomite last year. I think it cost €500 but you may well find cheaper.

There's a very nice '77 one advertised in TW for £2,200 (around €2,500), have it collected, re-register it, tax it for the year and you have a car on the road for around €3100. Well under your budget. Job's a good 'un!

Dades

gfwd wrote: »

I think half the fun of buying a car in the UK is flying over and driving it back.

Absolutely...

And you can justify the trip if you're saving cash!

gfwd

Agreed. I flew to Birmingham a few years ago to collect a BMW and got the ferry back from Holyhead. Including petrol, flight and ferry I reckon it cost me 300 and I found out a lot about the car by driving it. Like it had no MOT...:rolleyes:

PIMPHO

There's a very nice '77 one advertised in TW for £2,200 (around €2,500), have it collected, re-register it, tax it for the year and you have a car on the road for around €3100. Well under your budget. Job's a good 'un![/QUOTE]


Wow £2,200, that cheap? Are there photos? Is this the magazine you're referring to http://www.triumph-world.co.uk/? I can get it in any newsagents cheap enough ya? Can I view the advert online? €3,100 would be ideal and could still have a few hundred to spare to add a few extras onto it!

What do ye think of this Spittie?

http://classiccarsales.ie/buy/view/Triumph_Spitfire/921

Cheers

gfwd

I love Triumphs but Spitfires aren't really my bag. That looks a decent car alright, might be worth a look. Still think you'll get one cheaper though.

I've marked the ad I was talking about with a red box in the link below. You'll find the magazine in any Easons shop.

http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u350/Garyfin/Spits2.jpg

PIMPHO

gfwd wrote: »

I love Triumphs but Spitfires aren't really my bag. That looks a decent car alright, might be worth a look. Still think you'll get one cheaper though.

I've marked the ad I was talking about with a red box in the link below. You'll find the magazine in any Easons shop.

http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u350/Garyfin/Spits2.jpg

Thanks. I'm pretty confident I can get him down to €3.5k, good price then?

Oh I think the photo link doesn't work?

Off to Easons now to see if I can get a copy. Cheers

245

I can't interest you in a nice Spitfire Coupe with a 2.0 6 cylinder engine by any chance?

PIMPHO

245 wrote: »

I can't interest you in a nice Spitfire Coupe with a 2.0 6 cylinder engine by any chance?

Post up or send me some photos?

Merrion

He means the GT6...and it breaks my heart that I can't afford it right now.
(Buy it - you won't regret it)

L-M

245 wrote: »

I can't interest you in a nice Spitfire Coupe with a 2.0 6 cylinder engine by any chance?

You can't beat a GT6, fantastic lines to them. Between myself and the father it's always something we've wanted. Suffer from a bit of rust on the front of the roof.

Do give us some pics.

gfwd

Ehh, maybe if you clicked on his link "Buy my GT6"...:D

PIMPHO

DOH!

Checked out the advert there and it's sweet as! But I really want a convertible classic! Any chance it could be converted into one without breaking the bank? Also how much would the insurance be? I assume it's road tax free?

alastair

PIMPHO wrote: »

Checked out the advert there and it's sweet as! But I really want a convertible classic! Any chance it could be converted into one without breaking the bank? Also how much would the insurance be? I assume it's road tax free?

Sacrilege!

A lot easier (and cheaper) to start with a spitfire in that case.

Tax, if it's over 30 years of age would be 44 euro. Your insurance is down to your circumstances, but assuming it's only a second/weekend car with limited mileage, you're out of your twenties, and you're able to park off street - shouldn't be much.

245

If you're looking for a Spitfire the condition of the chassis is critical. The sills are also critical - even though it has a separate chassis, the sills are structural. Everything rusts but check the base of the A pillar, where the door hinges fasten to the A pillar, the windscreen surrounds etc. Check that the doors don't foul the B pillar and that the gap between door and B pillar is even all the way down. Check the bulkhead, especially around the master cylinders. The bumpers can be expensive to replace and new ones aren't good quality and will rust quickly. Wheel arches can be frilly and are often filled.

Panel fit is important - there are a lot of bodged restorations and they'll never look right, no matter what you spend.

Overdrive is well worth having. Check the engine for thrust washer wear etc. The 1500 engines aren't particularly long-lived but thrust washer damage aside, are relatively easy to rebuild (but not as cheap as some people would have you believe).

Look at lots and drive them all to get a feel for a good one. Don't rush your purchase.

PIMPHO

245 wrote: »

If you're looking for a Spitfire the condition of the chassis is critical. The sills are also critical - even though it has a separate chassis, the sills are structural. Everything rusts but check the base of the A pillar, where the door hinges fasten to the A pillar, the windscreen surrounds etc. Check that the doors don't foul the B pillar and that the gap between door and B pillar is even all the way down. Check the bulkhead, especially around the master cylinders. The bumpers can be expensive to replace and new ones aren't good quality and will rust quickly. Wheel arches can be frilly and are often filled.

Panel fit is important - there are a lot of bodged restorations and they'll never look right, no matter what you spend.

Overdrive is well worth having. Check the engine for thrust washer wear etc. The 1500 engines aren't particularly long-lived but thrust washer damage aside, are relatively easy to rebuild (but not as cheap as some people would have you believe).

Look at lots and drive them all to get a feel for a good one. Don't rush your purchase.

Thanks for the advice! You wouldn't want to come along to check out a Spitfire with me?! :P

KF:)

Decent guide on buying here http://www.triumphspitfire.nl/buyersguide.html

PIMPHO

Cheers. Still contemplating whether I should buy a classic car?! Wrecking my head it is. I really want one but in this climate and with people being let go right, left and centre, it maybe best to be prudent and conservative with my money. Shouldn't really be digging into my "Rainy Day" fund! But I think with very few people buying, I could potentially get a very good bargain which is an investment in itself although not a very liquid investment!

Decisions decisions..........................

245

PIMPHO wrote: »

Cheers. Still contemplating whether I should buy a classic car?! Wrecking my head it is. I really want one but in this climate and with people being let go right, left and centre, it maybe best to be prudent and conservative with my money. Shouldn't really be digging into my "Rainy Day" fund! But I think with very few people buying, I could potentially get a very good bargain which is an investment in itself although not a very liquid investment!

Decisions decisions..........................

If you get a good one for the money that you're thinking of spending then you can't go far wrong. I think that a cheapish classic is the perfect antidote to these depressing times - you couldn't feel guilty about spending a couple of grand - you'll most likely get most of it back if and when you sell it on.

PIMPHO

245 wrote: »

If you get a good one for the money that you're thinking of spending then you can't go far wrong. I think that a cheapish classic is the perfect antidote to these depressing times - you couldn't feel guilty about spending a couple of grand - you'll most likely get most of it back if and when you sell it on.

Ya I hear you and I won't spend anymore than €3/€3.5k on it and don't want to spend too much restoring or fixing it. Might be checking out one in Bray next week. Buyer seems eager to sell, asking price is €5.8 k but I said to him that my max budget is €3.5k and if it is worth my while calling around to view the car with my low budget but he still welcomed me to view the car!

Just wondering if it's possible or reasonable to ask the seller to get it serviced or get an independent mechanic's report on the car beforing buying it, so I know exactly what the faults are? I know I can check for various faults but I'm sure I will miss some and getting a mechanic to check it out would be more comprehensive and give me peace of mind.

Is there a NCT version for vintage cars or a RAC check or something like that?

Thanks

PIMPHO

Alright lads, quick update.

So I'm going to check out this Spittie over the weekend, see attached photos and let me know what you think. Seller has it advertised for €3k but confident I can get him down to €2k. It has new hood and leather on seats are new. Red carpets look a bit gay and sleezy so will have them replaced if I buy it. Car has been kept in garage for 5 months and he said he had to jump start it the other day. Engine looks a bit rusty? And there's a bit of rust on the paintwork on the side of the windscreen. It's an UK import and still has UK plates.

Not sure if this is too good to be true but came across a guy that is selling parts for a Spittie so I called him to see if he had a twin exhaust. He said he had all the parts except for the body and 2 seats. He said chassis has been sandblasted and sprayed, sills and floors are new and engine is in good condition etc. He said it's been in his garage for 3-4 years now and just want to get rid of it and said he would take a few hundred for it! Now I didn't know how much it was worth so I called up a classic garage and asked for advice. I was told to bite his arm off if I could buy all the parts for €500 and that the garage would buy the parts I didn't need off me! So rang the guy back and offered him 300-400 and he said great and that he knew he was losing a fortune on it but just wants to get rid! So going to check out the parts next week and garage is going to organise to collect the parts. So if I buy the Spittie in the attached photos, I'm going to have the garage check it out beforehand, see what needs to be done with it, use the spare parts and fit them onto the car if the spare parts are in better condition like the chassis, get it re-sprayed, engine cleaned or replaced with the spare engine and garage can buy all the parts left over off me and deduct the price off the cost of their labour and work!

So I'm estimating €2k for the car, €350 for parts and another €1k to do up the car after deducting the price of all the spare parts that the garage are going to buy off the labour cost. So around €3.5k in total.

What ye reckon? Sounds to good to be true?! :P

alastair

PIMPHO wrote: »

So around €3.5k in total.

What ye reckon? Sounds to good to be true?! :P

Yeah. You're being unrealistic on the cost of labour and respraying the car. And also in assuming that the garage will buy all your spare bits and pieces.

PIMPHO

alastair wrote: »

Yeah. You're being unrealistic on the cost of labour and respraying the car.

Even after deducting the price of the parts that the garage are going to buy off me??

alastair

PIMPHO wrote: »

Even after deducting the price of the parts that the garage are going to buy off me??

A decent respray will cost more than the car and spares combined, and you've no guarantee that the garage will want what you get, or will pay the sort of money you'd hope for.

PIMPHO

alastair wrote: »

A decent respray will cost more than the car and spares combined, and you've no guarantee that the garage will want what you get, or will pay the sort of money you'd hope for.

Then how about you tell me how much a decent re-spray will cost? If I go by what you just said that a decent re-spray will cost more than the car and parts, a re-spray would cost over €2.5k?

alastair

PIMPHO wrote: »

Then how about you tell me how much a decent re-spray will cost? If I go by what you just said that a decent re-spray will cost more than the car and parts, a re-spray would cost over €2.5k?

Respray costs pop up regularly in the forum - but one thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055449029

MercMad

I also think your figures are unrealistic. A respray depends on how good the body is underneath the existing paint. You wont know that unless you take it back to metal.

That alone would probably take €600-800 and the rest, and you would easily spend twice that preparing the car for paint and the same again painting it. Thats before you pay for paint and the cost of the various parts that you take off that just cant be re-used.

A quick rub/flat down and blow over could be done for €1000 but it wont look right, possibly worse than it does now, and in a years time the car will certainly have paintwork issues.

How much do you think the garage will charge per hour, and how many hours do you expect this will take.

I think you should decide on your max budget and stick to it, then buy the best example you can that needs little or nothing or certainly no bodywork. Mechanical stuff is easy and cheaper.

The price for the chassis/parts does seem very good though !

gfwd

That car doesn't look bad, though you can't judge a car properly from a photo. You really need to see it in daylight and give it a good blast. Does it need a respray? Doesn't look as though it needs one. The hood looks a bit crap, but maybe that's just the photo.

245

If the floor and sills check out then it's not bad for the money. Remember what I said before about the door shuts, A pillars and door/B pillar alignment. Be sure that you check seatbelt and suspension mounting points for rust and bad welding. Chassis looks like it might have a weld above the anti-roll bar mounting so check for crash damage to chassis at the front but its hard to tell from photos. The bulkhead looks rough around the master cylinders so you'd want to be careful there too. I'd definitely buy the parts if you're sure about buying a Spitfire.

If it was me, I'd buy the car if it was right and drive it for a year or so before making any major decisions about resprays - you may decide that Triumphs aren't for you and that a Mazda MX5 is a better choice. You may decide to sell on and buy a better Spitfire. You might decide that you like that one as it is (apart from that carpet of course :eek:). Its good money for starting a classic car experience - provided that the car is solid.

Make sure that the seller has the UK reg doc and that you get it when money changes hands.

PIMPHO

Right so I checked out the car yesterday.

Body - Paint job was ok, few bits of cracked paint by windscreen and bits of bubbling but nothing major.

Doors - After the advice I got, I made sure I checked the doors properly. Opened the driver door and it was stiff to open, sat in car and try to close the door and it was catching the side panel so had to slam it to close. Same story with passenger side. Gap between door and wheel arch/bonnet was bigger than normal which would suggest the door wasn't hung right or some alignment issues. (Sorry I could be wrong with my diagnosis).

Engine - Not much different to the photo but I didn't really know what to look out for. Stepped on the clutch when engine was running and nothing moved. Needs a clean up.

Chassis - Looks like there is some welding on the chassis as 245 pointed out and the right wheel arch has filler in it which suggests the car was crashed before? Couldn't find any filler anywhere else on the car.

Floor panels and underneath the car - Checked underneath the carpets and the floor panels have a black seal on it so couldn't see any rust (not sure if this is a good thing or bad thing?). At the back of the seats the panels were orange so original car colour was orange. He jacked the car up for me to check and again it was covered with a thick black seal and I could only see the condition of the exhaust, everything else was black. Again I'm not sure if this is a precautionary measure or trying to cover up some damage?

Drove the car and gear change was smooth, not much rattle or unusual noises. Steering was surprisinly smooth and not that stiff. Brakes were a worry though (although brakes could be like this for every 30yr old classic car?) as they were unresponsive and even slamming the foot down on the brake, there was no emegency stop? Seller said brakes were like this on an old classic car? Can it be changed to a more responsive breaking system?

Other than that, it was great to drive it and really nippy and lots of power in 2nd and 3rd gears. Hood is alright, not great, does the job I guess. He also has a tonneau cover. The interior is same as photos, seats are new TR6 seats and comfortable. Dash is a bit worn, all meters work. Choker needs to be fixed as it doesn't pull out properly. Carpers are new and too gay and red for me! :P

Seller spent plenty of time chatting to and showing me the car and was there for 2hrs plus! He also had 3 other classid Jags there he was doing up along with a Camero adn Cortina. He showed me the paperwork, along with logbook, previous MOT when he bought the car which expired in June 08. So when he bought it, it was still within its MOT so car can't be that bad? States on the MOT that the mileage is 35k and it was only done less then 1k miles since. Not sure the current mileage is correct?

Agreed to buy it for €2k if all checks out when I get the car checked out by a specialist/mechanic and he's going to register Irish plates for it. So as long as the mechanic confirms that it's mechanically and structurally sound and that it doesn't require much work and cash to do it up, I'll be buying my first classic next week!

So what ye think? The brakes, black seal, welding on the chassis and filler on the wheel arch are my only worries.

245

The brakes aren't a deal breaker - it'd be relatively easy to sort them out - worst case scenario is a sticking caliper piston - reconditioned calipers aren't dear. There doesn't seem to be a servo on the car so it might just be that you're expecting them to be as powerful as a modern one. You can retrofit a servo if needs be. Maybe new pads and discs also.

I'm concerned about the sills - the doors shouldn't catch and its more likely to be sagging sills than an alignment issue. Did you notice if the sticking was worse when you were sitting in the car? There's an inner and outer sill. The outer can look quite good whereas the inner can be rotten. They can be repaired but its going to cost you a reasonable amount and once you start digging around a car's structure it can turn up more work.

I don't know what sills would cost to replace - the parts aren't dear - its just labour, welding and local painting - I dunno - maybe 1500 euro? Its important to get the alignment right though - the repairer needs to be fussy.

If you jack up the car does the door sticking change much and does the alignment gap change on that side?

Black underneath is just underseal. It can be used to cover up horrors and there's no good way of knowing. If its very fresh on an otherwise averagely maintained car, I'd wonder about it.

In my experience an MOT cert can be little better than wallpaper. I bought a Spitfire unseen with an MOT that wasn't roadworthy.

The filler on the wheelarch is probably standard enough for a Spitfire - its more likely a rust repair than crash damage.

Sorry if I sound negative. Get your mechanic to have a look but concentrate more on structural/repair issues than mechanicals - the mechanicals are cheap and simple. The other stuff can be a moneypit.

Make sure that you know your mechanic better than the seller (it's a small world - especially in Irish classic car circles!)

PIMPHO

It was if the door wasn't hung properly and the door was catching the the side panel. Not sure if door was harder to close when I sat in the car but I didn't notice the car sag significantly when I sat in but I did have to bang the door shut. Same with the passenger side, had to bang it shut. Seller said it was the way door was hung or not aligned properly? Didn't open the doors when the car was jacked up so don't know if gap was bigger or smaller but I did comment to the seller that the gap between door and bonnet was unusually bigger than normal.

The black underseal seemed fresh/new enough, couldn't really tell. Seller hadn't driven the car for a while so there wasn't much dirt or marks on it.

The spare parts I'm buying has new sills so might be able to replace them on the car if needs be but like you said, could cost a good bit to do and could open up a can of worms!

Kind of worried about it alright so hopefully mechanic clear it up for me. Getting the mechanic from a classic garage in Athlone. Found good feedback about him on Classiccar.ie forum so hopefully he knows what he's doing! I know what you mean about the mechanic and seller and it is a small world in the classic car circle! I asked the seller about the classic car garage in Athlone and he said he didn't know it so thought that was a bit strange since he it was the only classic car garage in the midlands! But the seller did come across very genuine and did spend alot of time with me going through everything and showing me the car but then again you never know these days! He did say that if he was to do up the car a bit he would sell it no problems for 3k at a car show and that he was losing money selling it to me for €2k as he had spent a good few hundred on it since he bought it.

At €2k it's not that much of a gamble is it??

245

Its good that you're getting another opinion from someone with a professional background with classics. See what he says and hopefully you'll make the right decision.

If the panel alignment is different between the two sides then you'd have to think again about that chassis weld and if the car is straight or not. You could try measuring the distance from the top of each rear wheelarch to the ground. Any significant difference between the two sides could be a chassis twist. It could also be a duff rear spring so its not guaranteed to be accurate but its another piece of the puzzle.

I agree that 2k isn't big money but if you have to spend another 2k then its starting to get past money you'd have spent on another one.

Good luck - hope it all works out.

Henry Ford III

PIMPHO wrote: »

At €2k it's not that much of a gamble is it??

If it's hiding structural issues it could be a huge gamble.

gfwd

http://www.manvers-triumph.com/intro-frameset.htm

Manvers have a nice vermillion spitfire at £2995. Batter them down to 2 and a half and you've a nice car ready to roll.

chiefwiggum

gfwd wrote: »

http://www.manvers-triumph.com/intro-frameset.htm

Manvers have a nice vermillion spitfire at £2995. Batter them down to 2 and a half and you've a nice car ready to roll.

cartell has it as 1981 so no classic vrt or tax yet

gfwd

Yup, good point.

PIMPHO

Lads, bought a Spittie on Ebay for £1.8k. Want to get it inspected before I fly over and buy it. So can anyone recommend a classic car inspection company in the UK? I googled a few but not sure which one to go for?

Cheers

gfwd

Either contact the Triumph Sports Six club and get a recommendation from them (someone from the club who lives nearby might even give you a dig out for a few beer tokens) or maybe try the RAC? I think they do pre-purchase inspections.

--amadeus--

PIMPHO wrote: »

Lads, bought a Spittie on Ebay for £1.8k. Want to get it inspected before I fly over and buy it. So can anyone recommend a classic car inspection company in the UK? I googled a few but not sure which one to go for?

Cheers

Too late - eBay is an auction site and you have made a commitment to purchase already. I'm not saying don't inspect it but unless the car is different to the description you don't have a legal leg to stand on, the site's terms clearly tell you that you are entering into a legally binding contract as soon as you hit the Submit Bid button.

PIMPHO

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Too late - eBay is an auction site and you have made a commitment to purchase already. I'm not saying don't inspect it but unless the car is different to the description you don't have a legal leg to stand on, the site's terms clearly tell you that you are entering into a legally binding contract as soon as you hit the Submit Bid button.

Eh thanks for stating the obvious! Did I say I wasn't going to buy it? I said "Want to get it inspected before I fly over and buy it". The inspection was for my own peace of mind and to make sure the car is as described by the seller.

--amadeus--

PIMPHO wrote: »

Want to get it inspected before I fly over and buy it.

Can be read in a couple of ways - I read it as you wanted it inspected to make sure it was worth it before you bothered flying over to finish the transaction.

PIMPHO wrote: »

Eh thanks for stating the obvious! Did I say I wasn't going to buy it? I said "Want to get it inspected before I fly over and buy it". The inspection was for my own peace of mind and to make sure the car is as described by the seller.

I've had plenty of tyre kickers look at my classics and more than a few "I'll be back with a deposit" dreamers. Reading the last post in the context of teh thread made it sound like you might be in that camp, but meh, no skin off my nose.

PIMPHO

Lads can anyone recommend a transport company that will transport the car to Holyhead for example? Seller is based in Norwich on the tip of the east cost so a nightmare to get over there! Could fly to Birmingham but would still need the car transported from Norwich to Birmingham and then drive to Holyhead.

Thanks

Henry Ford III

Fly to Stanstead. No too far away.

alastair

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Fly to Stanstead. No too far away.

Yep - cheapo Ryanair flight to Stansted, airport coach-link to Colchester station (hourly - takes an hour), train to Norwich (twice hourly, takes an hour).

PIMPHO

alastair wrote: »

Yep - cheapo Ryanair flight to Stansted, airport coach-link to Colchester station (hourly - takes an hour), train to Norwich (twice hourly, takes an hour).

Thanks but that means I would have to drive over 7 hours from Norwich to Holyhead! Even if the car was reliable enough to do 352 odd miles, I wouldn't want to chance it incase it broke down in the middle of no where! Plus car isn't taxed either.

Any other suggestions? I think the easiest would be to transport the car to Birmingham and drive to Holyhead? Only negative with this is that I won't ge to see the car first and only go on the mechanic's report.