Smithfield Horse Market

shifon9

As a resident of Smithfield for 3 & half years I just wondered if any other residents are fed up of the horse market - not the market itself but all the things/people that come with it. Today was prime example - we might be in a city centre location but it is still a residential area - the noise began from 7am and the last of the dregs left at 4pm ish. The amount of rubbish left behind is unbelievable - they are still cleaning it now. Since we are in a recession now (and all the moaning that goes with that) - and it is us the tax payers money which pays the council to clean it up - isnt it time for this market to be moved some where more suitable. Why cant they rope off an area of the Phoenix Park - which would be an ideal location. Its also the health and safety issues. I saw an ambulance going down the square at one point. I think some one will get killed or seriously injured some day soon. Many of these individuals clearly dont look after the horses properly. Helmets are none existent and kids riding horses at full gallop up the one way of North King Street against the flow of traffic seems perfectly acceptable behaviour - just wondered if any other residents are fed up with this. I just dont buy its tradition anymore......

mikemac

The horse market was there long, long before you moved in

But I agree it's a ridiculous location for a market.
I'm near Ballyfermot here and the local travelers walk their horses in from here down the footpath. It's a longish walk. Footpaths covered in horse ****

Phoenix Park would be ideal.
I'd advice you contact Dublin City Council but realy, it's going to be tough to get it moved.

shifon9

I agree it was here long before me - but for me its becoming a dangerous situation and when some one gets badly hurt or god forbid killed people will be screaming why was this allowed to continue in a built up area

PCPhoto

I was around smithfield this morning and was pleased to see the horse market - I think its fascinating the wheeling and dealing thats involved.

However, while I do agree that the positioning of the market (nowadays) might seem to be in the wrong area but don't you think that the market traders thought the same when the smithfield apartments were being built....why do the apartments have to be built in their area?

It's only 1 day a month, YES ! they do leave a huge mess and the level of control amongst the kids there is unbelievable - but there's nothing the gardai are willing/able to do. (Dont think they would have much of a chance if they tried anyway)

In short - unless the DCC (Dublin City Council) are willing to listen to you (Which I really doubt) then you'll just have to put up with it ...... Moving to Phoenix park sounds ideal - but look at it this way - you wont be able to keep them in a corner.....so the entire park would have kids on horses running around - dont think that would do the deer any good or the people who frequent the park for a bit of weekend relaxation.

byhookorbycrook

talks of it being moved to Naas.

otwb

Market was there long before the apartments were...smacks a bit of buying a house beside an airport and then complaining of the noise from airplanes...

Would do no harm to have a bit more control and for the council to check for passports and confiscate any horse without one on the day. (get ready for the riots lads:o)

Victor

Is this really an Accommodation & Property thread?

jdivision

It's being moved out to finglas/ballymun border near Ikea, or at least that was the plan. As others said though it was there a long time before you were!

Dandelion6

DCC have been trying to move the fair for yonks, the problem is that legally their hands are tied. They have been trying to locate an alternate site so that the Travellers will agree to move but this has been difficult - nobody else wants to the fair in their backyard either.

There is an additional problem in that DCC and the Gardaí have both tried to wash their hands of the day-to-day (well month-to-month) running of the fair, as far as DCC are concerned it's a public order issue and therefore a matter for the Guards, the Guards seem to take a different perspective.

shifon9

Does anyone know what happened yesterday and why and ambulance was called? In the time I have been living here it just seems to have got bigger and bigger and I dont see that much buying and selling of horses but other dodgy dealings. Also if it is for buying and selling why are they allowed to race up church st and north king street against the traffic - all it takes is for a horse to get spooked! Then cars/vans/horseboxes are parked all over the place on double yellow lines and amazingly nobody gets clamped or towed away. It just seems like double standards. i remember when the local shops wouldnt open. yes the horse fair was here long before me and the apartments - and im not having a not on my door step moment - it just seems to be getting out of control.

Victor

Moved from Accommodation & Property.

ryoishin

I used to live down there and one year they could nt have it in smithfield for some reason. So they had it in the fields in grangegorman instead.

John Mason

We have lost so much of culture and traditions in the last 20 years, i think it would be awful to move the horse market from smithfield. that's it's home

byhookorbycrook

horses re not meant to be trotted at breakneck speed on uneven road surfaces. That is not part of out tradition.

disssco

Make one complaint about the horse market and it'll be "discrimination against the travellers".

Bill2673

disssco wrote: »

Make one complaint about the horse market and it'll be "discrimination against the travellers".

I don't agree; I've seen other posts in this site having a go at 'knackers' and going on about animal cruelty, and no attempt made to moderate them that I could see. In general, I find that Irish people have no difficulty in giving out about travellers.

Meeja Ireland

disssco wrote: »

Make one complaint about the horse market and it'll be "discrimination against the travellers".

But the thread is full of (quite reasonable) complaints about the horse market, and no-one has said anything like that.

Why invent a row where it doesn't exist?

ronaneire

Bill2673 wrote: »

I don't agree; I've seen other posts in this site having a go at 'knackers' and going on about animal cruelty, and no attempt made to moderate them that I could see. In general, I find that Irish people have no difficulty in giving out about travellers.

Meeja Ireland wrote: »

But the thread is full of (quite reasonable) complaints about the horse market, and no-one has said anything like that.

Why invent a row where it doesn't exist?

Pity he didn't read the date of the last post

Bill2673

ronaneire wrote: »

Pity he didn't read the date of the last post

Haha funny enough I've made that mistake a few times......conversations that wait a year for a reply.....could take a life time to finish.

Point still stands though

bitter_lemon

i am sick to the back teeth of this!
20 years ago i used to love this market. it was steeped in tradition and a brilliant day out the first sunday of the month.
haven't been in years. i am with dspca in trying to shut it down. you can buy a horse there now for a fiver and the horses and other pets are subjected to such cruelty.
full of knackers and scumbags who say they love animals. ha that is a joke. riding them at breakneck speed down the cobbles tearing the mouths of them. dirtbirds :mad:

2 people shot this morning at the fair. no animal lovers there thats for sure.
this does not represent irish culture anymore and hasn't for a long time. it only represents animal cruelty and thuggish behaviour!

down with this sort of thing!

bitter_lemon

i don't know how to link a site but its from the irish times.


Two shot at Smithfield horse fair

Two men have been injured in a gun attack at the Smithfield horse fair in Dublin.
Gardaí arrested two men in connection with the incident which occurred at around 11.30am at the north inner city venue.

The victims are being treated in hospital but it is thought their wounds are not life threatening.

A suspect explosive device was also recovered at the scene. It is being examined by Army
bomb experts.
Gardaí at the Bridewell are investigating the circumstances surrounding the incidents.

Sunnyisland

From rte news...

Two men have been wounded in a shooting at the Smithfield horse fair in Dublin this morning.

Smithfield - Horse fair was taking place this morning Two men have been wounded in a shooting at the Smithfield horse fair in Dublin this morning.

The men were wounded by shots fired from a shotgun at 11.30am.

Both men have been admitted to hospital, but gardaí say their injuries are not life-threatening. Both are from Offaly and the same family.

The Army Bomb Disposal Team was called to the area after the discovery of the homemade shotgun.

The Defence Forces said the gun was made safe and handed over to gardaí.


There has also been other trouble at the fair following disturbances. One man has been taken to hospital after he was attacked with a slash hook.

Gardaí believe that 4,500 people turned out for the monthly horse fair, which is the biggest of the year and attracts people from all over Ireland and the UK.

They feared there would be trouble today and wanted the fair cancelled because too many people were expected in a small area.

Dublin City Council has also tried but failed to overrule the right to hold the Fair in Smithfield.

Gardaí believe the trouble today relates to an ongoing Traveller feud.

An Citeog

Homemade shotguns and slash hooks at a horse fair: at least they're keeping up with 19th century traditions!

kravmaga

:eek:Just seen the private camera footage handed over to RTE 6pm News.

Shocked but does not surprise me when you consider the element attending the horse fair.

Dublin City Council should ban it altogether from Smithfield.

bitter_lemon

kravmaga wrote: »

:eek:Just seen the private camera footage handed over to RTE 6pm News.

Shocked but does not surprise me when you consider the element attending the horse fair.

Dublin City Council should ban it altogether from Smithfield.

this has been going on for years. its not private footage. i'm not sure about posting links. all you need to do is youtube scumbags or knackers - horses- smithfield.
it says it all.
such a sad state of affairs when a fair which was once all about animal welfare and for horse enthusiasts resorted to this :mad:

kravmaga

bitter_lemon wrote: »

this has been going on for years. its not private footage. i'm not sure about posting links. all you need to do is youtube scumbags or knackers - horses- smithfield.
it says it all.
such a sad state of affairs when a fair which was once all about animal welfare and for horse enthusiasts resorted to this :mad:

What has been going on for years?

And by the way the term is Travellers not what you have mentioned above as that is a racist comment.

RTE stated that the footage was taken by an individual and not their camera crew.

Thank you;)

hmmm

The state of the horses down in Smithfield is appalling, these animals are treated with cruelty. I have sympathy for those who say that a bunch of yuppies moving into new apartments shouldn't be allowed change an area because they dislike it, but what goes on in Smithfield has no place in modern Ireland.

latenia

I've just been speaking to a German family with young children who were caught up in this today. They said it was pure luck that the horses bolting from the noise of the gun ran in the opposite direction to them. Naturally they are horrified and said they won't be coming back.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/knacker

1. a person who buys up old horses for slaughter

I have no problem using this word to refer to the 'traders' at Smithfield. At this stage it's farcical that an event like this is allowed to happen anywhere, let alone in the middle of a city.

Miguel_Sanchez

They really need to close this down.

It's ridiculous.

A Disgrace

kravmaga wrote: »

What has been going on for years?

And by the way the term is Travellers not what you have mentioned above as that is a racist comment.

RTE stated that the footage was taken by an individual and not their camera crew.

Thank you;)

They're not a seperate race, so it's not racist

The Waltzing Consumer

A Disgrace wrote: »

They're not a seperate race, so it's not racist

Now now now, it is far more important to give out about the word knacker and scream racism then to look at what happened.

Sure they might have brought a few guns, slash hooks, bars and other weapons into a crowded area and create a panic which could have caused injury to horses and people, but ya know, culture, tradition, way of life blah blah blah. If you don't like this carry on, sure you are a racist then. It's culture! :pac:

That place should have been shut down years ago. Bloody kids buying animals for a few euro, and letting the animals rot away in fields. Sickens me, that its called culture.

Suprised todays events arent mentioned in AH? whats up with that?
Im sure if the good folk of Ballsbridge had a shooting in the middle of one of their horsey events AH would have it mentioned.

The Waltzing Consumer

Jake1 wrote: »

That place should have been shut down years ago. Bloody kids buying animals for a few euro, and letting the animals rot away in fields. Sickens me, that its called culture.

Suprised todays events arent mentioned in AH? whats up with that?
Im sure if the good folk of Ballsbridge had a shooting in the middle of one of their horsey events AH would have it mentioned.

To be fair, if it was in AH, people might say things that might be factually acurate but because it is travellers they are talking about, it would be considered racism or discriminating and the thread would be locked.

deelite

Right I'm going to ask a silly question but do you need a licence for a horse (like you do for dogs)?

RMD

kravmaga wrote: »

What has been going on for years?

And by the way the term is Travellers not what you have mentioned above as that is a racist comment.

RTE stated that the footage was taken by an individual and not their camera crew.

Thank you;)

So Travellers are a different ethnicity to the Irish?

run_Forrest_run

There were children at this fair, this was a disgusting incident.
It's widely understood now, this 'ethnic' group don't have the ability to consider other people in their actions, but hey we must accept this, hell f**k no, absolute scum, only place for them is behind bars or closer to the soil if you ask me.

RoadRunner

For their' own good we need to start treating the Travellers like the rest of the irish citizens. They were caught on camera this time and they need to be properly locked up, and made an example of. Society will benefit. I've seen them go at each other with pitchforks and axes outside the national boxing arena and they guards drove on past.

People need to know their limitations.

It should be the priority of the incoming government to act on this. Just the same as the dirty politicians and bankers on the other end of the scale.

Degsy

I saw the footage on RTE news at 9,shocking stuff going on with kids in attendance.
As if the shooting wasnt bad enough they started going at it with tyre-irons,slashooks and crowbars..fcucking savages.

I dont know how there werent lots more injuries from horses bolting in all directions too.

The whole thing was a disgrace.

nmacc

Strangely enough no-one seemed to have been hurt in the stampede.

It was a genuine stampede, I know as I was less than 50m from the shooter and overlooking the spot.

There was one loud bang and a pause of maybe 2 seconds whilst it sunk in. It took that long for the horses to react as well as the people. When they did there was a stampede away from the area of the shooting. The rush stopped fairly quickly as most of the horses were on ropes or lead reins and there was a pause of about a minute before a group ran quickly to the noth-east corner of the square where the melee took place. One man was slashed fairly badly (possibly the shooter?), but the ambulance was there in next to no time and he was taken away.

I had been filming the scene, but unfortunately had just put the camera away before the shot was fired, so I missed the actual event. Typical!

delta_bravo

I have a feeling that since the market has been in existence for so many years it may have some sort of legal recognition and thats why the council have so much trouble in banning it.

Best thing to do is just completely disrupt the activities of it if they cant ban it; get Gardai down there with the DSPCA and seize any horse where the owner has no paperwork or something like that.

RMD

Would a market not need some form of permission to take place? I doubt the tinkers can just show up and set up shop? Who gives out permission for markets to take place on public property? I'd assume it's DCC, but if that was the case they could stop it straight away so it must be a different group.

feckin gas, I know for a fact if I started selling hats scarves etc on street Id be moved along and possibly brought to court for not having street traders license.

delta_bravo

RMD wrote: »

Would a market not need some form of permission to take place? I doubt the tinkers can just show up and set up shop? Who gives out permission for markets to take place on public property? I'd assume it's DCC, but if that was the case they could stop it straight away so it must be a different group.

The problem I think is that there have been markets at Smithfield for more than 200 years so the area is probably designated as a trading area possibly in the charter of the city or some old city laws.

Even the placename is "Margadh na Feirme" which would roughly translate into the Market for the farm.

Best thing is just to try and disrupt it as much as possible and have a heavy handed approach.

A Disgrace

Nothing against travellers and all that, but they are pushing for legitimate 'ethnic' status, and that's what worries me. They ARE ethic, but much the same as any Irish person is. If we adopt this view-point, Cork people will soon be considered 'ethnic' and saying 'langer' in public will be considered xenephoic. Let's get a grip. They're Irish, and if they considtently break the law or cause public order offences in any area, they should be treated like any other person.. tradition is tradition, and I get it, but just because you're different doesn't make you different..

Lapin

kravmaga wrote: »

And by the way the term is Travellers not what you have mentioned above as that is a racist comment.

Anyone who fires a loaded gun injuring 2 others in a densely crowded area with highly strung animals present and creates scenes like the ones shown on last nights news is a complete knacker in my opinion, regardless of what culture, background or race they claim to come from.

mike kelly

RMD wrote: »

I doubt the tinkers can just show up and set up shop?

they can do pretty much what they want. Whenever there is a traveller funeral in a rural town, the gardai order all publicans to close until the travellers have left.

mike kelly

nmacc wrote: »

I had been filming the scene, but unfortunately had just put the camera away before the shot was fired, so I missed the actual event. Typical!

u were lucky. If you had to give evidence against these fellows, they would make your life hell

maximoose

I've been in Smithfield for 4 years now and this 'market' - I'm using that term loosely as from what I've seen there is f*ck all trading actually goes on here - is a joke. It brings...

traveller kids hanging around outside the Centras on Stoneybatter/Manor Street drinking naggins shouting abuse at people just walking by, their horses tied to lamposts outside the shops blocking off the entire path

Droves of travellers' Jeeps/Wagons/Trailers/Lorries parked illegally all along Brunswick street North blocking off more paths and half the feckin road

Dublin 7 in its ENTIRETY is covered in horse sh*t and hay for usually a full 3 weeks after the 'market'

I'm not mad into animal protection and rights but the blatant cruelty to the horses on display is disgusting aswell. The condition of the horses is terrible, and you'll see hefty teens and even fully grown men parading around on young horses that are far too small to carry them.

After yesterday's events surely the DCC/Garda/whoever need to do something and get rid of this backwards tradition

Adagiodiva

I've been living in Smithfield for the lat three and a half years and have never seen the likes of what occured yeaterday.

When the gunshots went off..people scattered letting go of their horses and the horses started running wild (obviously afraid of the gunshot) all around the Square and environs....including onto North King Street into traffic and onto the LUAS line added to this was people attacking each other with sticks and anything else they could put their hands on. It's now gone beyond a horsefair...it's now a serious public liability and to call this "tradition" is a scapegoat.

It has to be accepted that Smithfield is now an urban area, it is not the place for horses to be traded. It is not fair that we as residents of Smithfield are afraid to leave our homes on the first Sunday of every month...which was the case yeaterday. Don't get my wrong I'm well used to city life but the intimidation that I experienced from those participating in the horse fair yesterday.unbelieveable..I only walked into the Square to head to the gym and had a group of teenager boys approached me (one on horse) and started making really crude comments (use your imagination) to me.

It's an absolute joke...we're paying a small fortune to live in Smithfield and are subject to this?? It's just not acceptable.

S.

cursai

Bloody french canadians ruin everything. worst kind of cream crackers!

michelledoh

Saw the garda helimocopter going around yesterday morning, and sirens blaring everywhere and didn't know what was going on.

This has to be the end of this, the area around Smithfield was in complete dirt last night, and you'd want to see the way some of these animals were being treated yesterday on Nth King St. :mad: