legalize drugs,save the economy.

wudangclan

legalize all drugs and save ireland from recession.
the drug industry is reckoned to be worth between a half and one billion euros a year,most of which goes outside the country.legalizing drugs would keep most of that within the irish economy,a portion of which the government can tax.
the money spent on drug prohibition could be diverted to more useful projects ,such as drug-use prevention.
money would be saved from the resulting drop in crime and the negation of punitive measures for drug crime.
and tourist revenue would increase (drug tourism) were ireland to innovate such legalisation,thus ensuring a further boost in the arm (for the economy).
recession solved.drug murders solved.lower crime.

JC 2K3

While a sensible idea, there's already far too much anti-drug propaganda out there for the public to ever accept that.

And I mean, the government and anti-drugs bodies it supports aren't going to spend over 30 years publicising a range exaggerated claims to downright false information on drugs, to simply turn around and admit drugs aren't so bad after all.

justcallmetex

Word! Makes perfect sense but we're not ready for perfect sense. Drug Wars win votes

wudangclan

JC 2K3 wrote: »

While a sensible idea, there's already far too much anti-drug propaganda out there for the public to ever accept that.

but the mood is shifting.in albany new york,last year ,a former assistant da ,(i think),was elected ,versus the incumbent democratic 'machine',on an anti-drug laws ticket.

Nick_oliveri

Now now, we all know "Hashisi" and "Weeds" make jack a dull and schizophenic boy...

Kernel

wudangclan wrote: »

the drug industry is reckoned to be worth between a half and one billion euros a year,most of which goes outside the country.legalizing drugs would keep most of that within the irish economy,a portion of which the government can tax.

The money would still be flowing to other countries like Afghanistan and Columbia unless the drugs were grown and produced here. Taxation would bring in some money, but at what cost to society? Costs a lot of taxpayer money to rehabilitate addicts, and crime to support addiction etc.

wudangclan wrote: »

the money spent on drug prohibition could be diverted to more useful projects ,such as drug-use prevention.
money would be saved from the resulting drop in crime and the negation of punitive measures for drug crime.

Didn't this theory fail in Amsterdam?

wudangclan wrote: »

and tourist revenue would increase (drug tourism) were ireland to innovate such legalisation,thus ensuring a further boost in the arm (for the economy).
recession solved.drug murders solved.lower crime.

Not the kind of tourism I'd like walking about in fairness!

JC 2K3

wudangclan wrote: »

but the mood is shifting.in albany new york,last year ,a former assistant da ,(i think),was elected ,versus the incumbent democratic 'machine',on an anti-drug laws ticket.

Yeah, but Ireland tends to be behind the rest of the world when it comes to things like this.

The strict illegality of drugs is largely to do with US and UK policies.

wudangclan

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

Now now, we all know "Hashisi" and "Weeds" make jack a dull and schizophenic boy...

debatable,but not the point.the point is not the effect of drugs,but the effect of drug laws and how a change would affect the economy

JC 2K3

Kernel wrote: »

Didn't this theory fail in Amsterdam?

Nope. AFAIK there's been some negative press on the situation that the anti-drugs lobby have jumped on, but it's generally been a success.

wudangclan

Kernel wrote: »

The money would still be flowing to other countries like Afghanistan and Columbia unless the drugs were grown and produced here.

yes.because thats where some of the drugs are sourced,but they could be purchased there at cost price and not at vastly inflated prices.

Nick_oliveri

wudangclan wrote: »

debatable,but not the point.the point is not the effect of drugs,but the effect of drug laws and how a change would affect the economy

I know, i thought i'd say something lulzworthy and thankable. Backfired it has.

RGDATA!

it would also take hundreds of millions per year out of the black market economy and the hands of criminals.

wudangclan

Kernel wrote: »

Didn't this theory fail in Amsterdam?

not sure how you mean

dsmythy

Eee gadz! Another unoriginal legalise drugs thread. I for one look forward to the days when children experiment with crack rather than cigarettes.

wudangclan

Kernel wrote: »

Not the kind of tourism I'd like walking about in fairness!

we already suffer a fair degree of drug tourism via stags and hens in temple bar.

DarkJager

Educate the public on the possible dangers and also the safe methods for taking drugs and that would be the problem solved. Unfortunately there's too many wannabe do gooders out there who know **** all about drugs in reality, but like to think that they are experts whenever the subject of drugs pops up in conversation. It should be made clear to these people that unless they have actually tried the drugs themselves, what they are spouting is handed down spook bull**** from other morons who might have read just one paragraph on talk to frank.

Adults are adults, and if they want to take a substance to enjoy themselves, what it is anybody elses ****in business? Not to mention as the OP stated, the amount of revenue to be gained from legalisation would quickly start to benefit the economy.

wudangclan

dsmythy wrote: »

Eee gadz! Another unoriginal legalise drugs thread. I for one look forward to the days when children experiment with crack rather than cigarettes.

i too look forward to the day when we live in a society minus drug problems

Local-womanizer

I would rather meet someone who was smoking Cannabis all day than meet someone who was drinking all day.

That Horizon programme on the beeb a few weeks back visited a drugs company in the UK who grows cannabis for use in medicines outside the UK foubd that if cannabis is grown in a controlled enviroment it contains anti-psyhcotic ingrediants.

Drink costs the goverment millions each year,between anti-social behaviour and health problems,at least cannabis would cut out the anti-social aspect.

As for other drugs,they should be kept criminalized imo.

ceegee

Leaving aside for a minute the obvious social and health problems this would cause, do people really think a plan like this would be of net economic benefit to the country? For every million it generates for the govt, how many would it cost in terms of policing increased crime, increase in treatment centres, hospital beds, lost dollars in tourist revenue (can't see too many retired yanks visiting when the country is a meth addicted sh1t hole.)

DarkJager

Local-womanizer wrote: »

I would rather meet someone who was smoking Cannabis all day than meet someone who was drinking all day.

That Horizon programme on the beeb a few weeks back visited a drugs company in the UK who grows cannabis for use in medicines outside the UK foubd that if cannabis is grown in a controlled enviroment it contains anti-psyhcotic ingrediants.

Drink costs the goverment millions each year,between anti-social behaviour and health problems,at least cannabis would cut out the anti-social aspect.

As for other drugs,they should be kept criminalized imo.

Ecstasy has been even proven safer than alcohol and tobacco, so why would you keep that criminalised? There has never been a direct death from ecstasy usage (and before anyone spouts figures at me, all deaths blamed on ecstasy have been primarily due to the stupidity of the person taking it without understanding the dangers, and also water intoxication).

DarkJager

ceegee wrote: »

Leaving aside for a minute the obvious social and health problems this would cause, do people really think a plan like this would be of net economic benefit to the country? For every million it generates for the govt, how many would it cost in terms of policing increased crime, increase in treatment centres, hospital beds, lost dollars in tourist revenue (can't see too many retired yanks visiting when the country is a meth addicted sh1t hole.)

Meth isn't a clean drug of any sort, its usually cooked up from ****ing cleaning agents and assorted other nasty stuff. In reality, legalisation would provide a huge amount of money and nowhere near the problems you described above. How many weed smokers have you known to be in trouble with the gardai while high? How many ecstasy users have you seen fighting in the streets?

wudangclan

ceegee wrote: »

Leaving aside for a minute the obvious social and health problems this would cause, do people really think a plan like this would be of net economic benefit to the country? For every million it generates for the govt, how many would it cost in terms of policing increased crime, increase in treatment centres, hospital beds, lost dollars in tourist revenue (can't see too many retired yanks visiting when the country is a meth addicted sh1t hole.)

it would benefit the economy because the profits would remain in the country as opposedto being diverted to suppliers from outside of ireland.
crime would vastly decrease,not increase.
there would be no increase in treatment centers or hospital beds,there would be a slight decrease,due to less impurities in the drugs.
and tourist revenues would likely increase,because there wouldnt be any more indigenous addicts than before but there would be significant decreases in street crime

Kernel

wudangclan wrote: »

we already suffer a fair degree of drug tourism via stags and hens in temple bar.

Yes, and that makes the area unbearable at times. I don't want more. In fact, the roaming gangs of junkies and hash smoking tracksuit wearing **** in Dublin has made me want to nuke the place.

c0rk3r

A Trance / Hard Trance DJ & producer from Limerick supporting legalizing drugs. Fight the stereotype. Most people cant handle their alcohol i don't see why we should throw more chemicals into the mix.

People will do whatever they want regardless of laws and common sense. eg. smoking causing cancer (****ing labels on the front of every box warning you yet people still smoke) overeating and eating trash. The amount of people in this country with high cholesterol is staggering. Which leads to stroke, diabetes etc. No matter what the consequences people will still do whatever they want.

Keep drugs underground and away from the majority of the population because simply people cant handle it.

Or better still legalize drugs, wait for the first 10 people to overdose. I'll give it a month. Then we can ban them again. It will finally put an end to the legalization argument.

Kernel

wudangclan wrote: »

it would benefit the economy because the profits would remain in the country as opposedto being diverted to suppliers from outside of ireland.

True. But if we took up the practice of sex trafficking women around the world that would help too.

wudangclan wrote: »

crime would vastly decrease,not increase.

That's dodgy. I don't agree with that, since the drugs would still cost money and addicts would still want the drugs. I mean a bag of heroin costs €5 or €10 and is cheap as chips, but addicts still go around on crime sprees to fill that cheap habit.

wudangclan wrote: »

there would be no increase in treatment centers or hospital beds,there would be a slight decrease,due to less impurities in the drugs.

Again, that's a stretch. More addicts = more need for treatment centres and beds no?

wudangclan wrote: »

and tourist revenues would likely increase,because there wouldnt be any more indigenous addicts than before but there would be significant decreases in street crime

Again, this is not based on any factual evidence, unless I am mistaken?

DarkJager

c0rk3r wrote: »

A Trance / Hard Trance DJ & producer from Limerick supporting legalizing drugs. Fight the stereotype. Most people cant handle their alcohol i don't see why we should throw more chemicals into the mix.

How does the music I enjoy have anything to do with this thread? And also, what is it of your ****ing business what I do for recreation or what my ideas on legalisation are?You don't know anything about me so keep comments like the above to yourself thanks.

Keep drugs underground and away from the majority of the population because simply people cant handle it.

So we should keep drugs banned because the ****ing idiots that might end up taking them, are too stupid to take them safely? What sense does that make? Should we ban alcohol as well then as the majority of people who overindulge in it are also idiotic **** who don't know when to stop? If you've got a GOOD arguement for keeping them banned then spit it out, but don't try and reason it being someway related to what idiots will do to themselves.

JP Liz

wudangclan wrote: »

legalize all drugs and save ireland from recession.
the drug industry is reckoned to be worth between a half and one billion euros a year,most of which goes outside the country.legalizing drugs would keep most of that within the irish economy,a portion of which the government can tax.
the money spent on drug prohibition could be diverted to more useful projects ,such as drug-use prevention.
money would be saved from the resulting drop in crime and the negation of punitive measures for drug crime.
and tourist revenue would increase (drug tourism) were ireland to innovate such legalisation,thus ensuring a further boost in the arm (for the economy).
recession solved.drug murders solved.lower crime.

Is this really Frank Gallagher :rolleyes:

dsmythy

Let's keep the comparison to alcohol and tobbaco out of it. Both are entrenched in us from quite literally hundreds of years of use. Saying illegal drugs should be legal because they are doesn't make a case for further legalisation of mind altering drugs.

Local-womanizer

dsmythy wrote: »

Let's keep the comparison to alcohol and tobbaco out of it. Both are entrenched in us from quite literally hundreds of years of use. Saying illegal drugs should be legal because they are doesn't make a case for further legalisation of mind altering drugs.

But you have to take that in to consideration when people start highlighting problems that drugs cause when Alcohol is possibly the most abused drug available.Alcohol costs the british goverment something like 60 billion a year.I dont know too much about the "harder" drugs but I doubt Cannabis would cost that If it was controlled in a proper manner,ie grown and distrubuted by goverment.After all it is a natural plant.The Anti-social problems would drop drastically if cannabis was legalised imo.I have never seen an enraged person on Cannabis.

And if people refuse to take Alcohol and Tobacco into the argument that is being a tad naive.

DarkJager

What about allowing the sale of these substances but restricting their use to private properties, with severe penalties for those who consume or carry them in public? I'm pretty sure most people would be happy with an arrangement like that.

justcallmetex

c0rk3r wrote: »

A Trance / Hard Trance DJ & producer from Limerick supporting legalizing drugs. Fight the stereotype. Most people cant handle their alcohol i don't see why we should throw more chemicals into the mix.

People will do whatever they want regardless of laws and common sense. eg. smoking causing cancer (****ing labels on the front of every box warning you yet people still smoke) overeating and eating trash. The amount of people in this country with high cholesterol is staggering. Which leads to stroke, diabetes etc. No matter what the consequences people will still do whatever they want.

Keep drugs underground and away from the majority of the population because simply people cant handle it.

Or better still legalize drugs, wait for the first 10 people to overdose. I'll give it a month. Then we can ban them again. It will finally put an end to the legalization argument.

All people seem to be asking for is the chance to find out if ur right or not

Kernel

Kernel wrote: »

Didn't this theory fail in Amsterdam?

Not in my eyes it didnt !

justcallmetex

DarkJager wrote: »

What about allowing the sale of these substances but restricting their use to private properties, with severe penalties for those who consume or carry them in public? I'm pretty sure most people would be happy with an arrangement like that.

Ok I think I could live with that

ceegee

DarkJager wrote: »

What about allowing the sale of these substances but restricting their use to private properties, with severe penalties for those who consume or carry them in public? I'm pretty sure most people would be happy with an arrangement like that.

Can't see how that will affect the crime and health issues associated with hard drugs

DarkJager

ceegee wrote: »

Can't see how that will affect the crime and health issues associated with hard drugs

Where do you see crime fit into that proposal anywhere? In that scenario, the drugs are legalised and the economy is benefitting from the sale, not drug dealers. As for health, please elaborate. If the consumption was allowed on private property, then the concerns about health are down to the user themselves, and are nobody elses business.

Local-womanizer

I cant see hard drugs being legalised imo.Cannabis yes.

If people are so worried about the crime and health figures caused by drugs then why can they seem to accept those caused daily by Alcohol?Ask any paramedic,nurse or member of the Gardai and I am sure they would tell you about the problems caused by drink.

As stated,people become calmer on cannabis.That and proper education on drug use then I cant see a problem tbh.

dsmythy

Local-womanizer wrote: »

But you have to take that in to consideration when people start highlighting problems that drugs cause when Alcohol is possibly the most abused drug available.Alcohol costs the british goverment something like 60 billion a year.I dont know too much about the "harder" drugs but I doubt Cannabis would cost that If it was controlled in a proper manner,ie grown and distrubuted by goverment.After all it is a natural plant.The Anti-social problems would drop drastically if cannabis was legalised imo.I have never seen an enraged person on Cannabis.

And if people refuse to take Alcohol and Tobacco into the argument that is being a tad naive.

I don't think alcohol consumption would reduce as a result of legalising other drugs. Tobacco consumption perhaps may fall. The issues with alcohol would remain. Maybe you can bring tobacco in on the subject but i don't think talking about alcohol has anything to do with legalisation of drugs.

Guy:Incognito

Local-womanizer wrote: »

But you have to take that in to consideration when people start highlighting problems that drugs cause when Alcohol is possibly the most abused drug available..

No connection? no?

Do we really need the same problem again with Heroin/Cocaine or even Hash? As it is we are trying to get kids to give up/not start smoking, giving them an incentive to smoke by addign in substances isnt a way forward.

DarkJager

dsmythy wrote: »

I don't think alcohol consumption would reduce as a result of legalising other drugs. Tobacco consumption perhaps may fall. The issues with alcohol would remain. Maybe you can bring tobacco in on the subject but i don't think talking about alcohol has anything to do with legalisation of drugs.

But it does have a place in the discussion about legalisation as it has been shown in a number of studies that alcohol is MORE dangerous than both ecstasy and cannabis. Its sickening really to see such a blind eye turned to it when it comes to drug discussion. Ah sure its only drink, but if research is showing that its more dangerous a drug than the 2 mentioned above, why is everyone still so quick to demonise them? it because of years of misguided information about drugs being fed to people. And I'm sure the likes of Diageo would prefer it to remain that way, god forbid they might lose money.

Guy:Incognito

DarkJager wrote: »

But it does have a place in the discussion about legalisation as it has been shown in a number of studies that alcohol is MORE dangerous than both ecstasy and cannabis. Its sickening really to see such a blind eye turned to it when it comes to drug discussion. Ah sure its only drink, but if research is showing that its more dangerous a drug than the 2 mentioned above, why is everyone still so quick to demonise them? it because of years of misguided information about drugs being fed to people. And I'm sure the likes of Diageo would prefer it to remain that way, gor forbid they might lose money.

So alcohol is dangerous and causes all these problems. Why do you think legalising drugs aswell would be a good thing exactly?

drugs (cannabis & ecstasy) and alcohol are fine in moderation in my book


EDIt: and in non-moderation !!

dsmythy

DarkJager wrote: »

But it does have a place in the discussion about legalisation as it has been shown in a number of studies that alcohol is MORE dangerous than both ecstasy and cannabis. Its sickening really to see such a blind eye turned to it when it comes to drug discussion. Ah sure its only drink, but if research is showing that its more dangerous a drug than the 2 mentioned above, why is everyone still so quick to demonise them? it because of years of misguided information about drugs being fed to people. And I'm sure the likes of Diageo would prefer it to remain that way, god forbid they might lose money.

You make the presumption that those who don't wish more drugs legalised somehow don't care about levels of alcohol consumption. It's a wrong one to make. Maybe they would also like to see alcohol use decreased as well as other drug use? Just a thought.

I'm convincable on the legalisation of cannabis use with responsibility attached. Drug-driving, being under the influence in work etc. But it would take one hell of an argument for me to even consider the legalisation of anything else.

exiot

California seems to have the right idea

SACRAMENTO, California: Could cannabis be a salvation for California's fiscal misfortunes?

A member of California's state assembly is introducing legislation to do just that: make California the first state to tax and regulate recreational marijuana.

Assemblyman Tom Ammiano from San Francisco says it is time to reap some state revenue while putting a damper on drug use by teens, cutting police costs and even helping Mother Nature.

"I know the jokes are going to be coming, but this is not a frivolous issue," said Mr Ammiano, a Democrat elected to the assembly in November. "California always takes the lead - on gay marriage, the sanctuary movement, medical marijuana."

Anti-drug groups are anything but amused by the idea of California collecting a windfall from the leafy herb that remains illegal under federal law.

Calvina Fay, executive director of Save Our Society From Drugs, said: "Legalising drugs like this would create a whole new set of costs for society."

Mr Ammiano's measure essentially would replicate the regulatory structure used for alcohol, with taxed sales barred to anyone under 21.

He said it would allow police to focus on more serious crimes while keeping marijuana away from teenagers.

The environment would benefit, too, he said, by uprooting destructive pot plantations that denude fragile ecosystems.

By some estimates, California's pot crop is a $US14 billion ($22 billion) industry. On that figure, the proposal could mean upward of $US1 billion in tax revenue each year.

After posting a $42 billion budget deficit, "generating new revenue is crucial to the state's long-term fiscal health", said Betty Yee, California's Board of Equalisation chairwoman, who supports Mr Ammiano's proposal.

Also in support of opening debate on the issue is the retired Orange County Superior Court judge James Gray, a longtime legalisation proponent.

"I'm a martini guy myself," Mr Ammiano said. "But I think it's time for California to look at this in a truly deliberative fashion."

DarkJager

dsmythy wrote: »

You make the presumption that those who don't wish more drugs legalised somehow don't care about levels of alcohol consumption. It's a wrong one to make. Maybe they would also like to see alcohol use decreased as well as other drug use? Just a thought.

I'm convincable on the legalisation of cannabis use with responsibility attached. Drug-driving, being under the influence in work etc. But it would take one hell of an argument for me to even consider the legalisation of anything else.

Its not to do with the levels of consumption, its the long term effects of it which have been deemed to be more harmful. I agree with you on your second point though. I'd be quite happy to see at least cannabis legalised in my lifetime, I wouldn't lose any sleep over the others.

Local-womanizer

Stekelly wrote: »

No connection? no?

Do we really need the same problem again with Heroin/Cocaine or even Hash? As it is we are trying to get kids to give up/not start smoking, giving them an incentive to smoke by addign in substances isnt a way forward.

If drugs(and Alcohol and Fags)where properly policed,ie not sold to the underage then I dont see a problem.If adults choose to smoke cannabis then that is fine,that is their choice.

I suppose its a given that you will have abuse of these by underage people.But if the children are properly advised in school about drugs and its uses they will be wiser in their choices.In my day friends started on hash out of curiosty and the medias interpitation of the drug was all positive,while in school it was all negative when it is clearly not,and we know with children they will want to try that "mysterious" thing.I have never tried hash,nor never felt the need to,but I can understand its appeal from friends who are regular users,and have never had any negative effects from it on a night it,unlike alcohol.

All in all,people shouldbe allowed to make their own choice,as with alcohol.But that is just my opinion;)

drunkmonkey

wudangclan wrote: »

l
the drug industry is reckoned to be worth between a half and one billion euros a year,most of which goes outside the country.legalizing drugs would keep most of that within the irish economy,a portion of which the government can tax.

great plan but take Marijuana for example, who's going to be policing who's paying tax on home grown pot if it's legal?
Over inflated marijuana prices still add to the economy in a round about way.... the last thing the government would like to do is turn a €300 bag of grass into something you can grow at home for free.....it's not really the war on drugs it's more the how the hell do we make money from it if it's legal and you can grow it yourself war!

bet you didn't know the pot the leprachans hid under the rainbows was green.;)

TheInquisitor

I think Cannibas should be legalised in Ireland for the simple reason that it is as dangerous as alcohol and it would hurt the drug dealers hugely in their pockets. If we look at how prohibition resulted in a huge increase in crime especially mafia related we can see how legalising cannibas might help our recent crime troubles. After prohibition was abolished Mafia gangs such as Al capones collapsed and the crime relating to them fell off a cliff. We could use a pricing system as proposed by some californian lawmakers. I can guarantee you though the drug dealers will be the first in the queue voting against this in a referendum!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/chris_ayres/article5883986.ece

chop86

Cannabis is not dangerous, it is not possible to overdose on it!! no such thing as weed poisoning i'm afraid!!

TPD

chop86 wrote: »

Cannabis is not dangerous, it is not possible to overdose on it!! no such thing as weed poisoning i'm afraid!!

Comments like that make cannabis smokers sound dumb. There is little to no immediate negative effect, but in the hands of someone with an addictive personality, or a family history of mental issues, it can ruin lives.

That said, I smoke it and would be in favour of legalising it, if it was done sensibly.

fillmore jive

chop86 wrote: »

Cannabis is not dangerous, it is not possible to overdose on it!! no such thing as weed poisoning i'm afraid!!

yeha but filling your lungs with smoke is hardly safe now is it? cannabis may not be as dangerous as its made out to be but doesn't necessarily mean its not poison...

JC 2K3

What about vapourising?

</typical retort>