How long does it take for a plodder to get to Boston?

Running Bing

OK I figure its about time I started one of these logs to track my progress, for motivation and of course to get lots of free advice from all the knowledgeable folks on here;)


I started running last June with the intention of doing Dublin, ticking it off the to do list and then hanging up my Kayanos but of course I got bitten by the bug and now all I think about is running:rolleyes:


As you can probably guess from the title I'd love to someday run Boston, but my long term goal is to run a marathon in under three hours. Thats a very lofty goal given my current level of running but Im looking at it over the long term and reckon I can get there within 3-4 years.

At the moment my PR's are:

Marathon : 4:15 (Oct 08)
10k: 49:08 (December 08)
5k: 21:30 (1 Jan 09)

Obvious pattern there....Im a lot better at the shorter stuff! Thats why this year I have decided to focus on shorter stuff, nothing longer than 5k and with a view to running well in BHAA track events in August.

Im following Jack Daniels program for 1500/3000m. Completely new experience for me having never really done any speed work before but it looks like a good programme and I reckon it will play to my strengths and help me improve.

Short term Goals:

Mile: sub 6
5k: Sub 20
10k: sub 45

Medium term goals:

Mile: 5:19
5k: 18:28
10k: sub 40

I choose them because they are the equivalent time of a 3 hour marathon on McMillan (I know its not 100% accurate but its as good a target as any and if Im at that level it will give me the confidence to shoot for the sub 3).

Like I said Im a relative newbie so any comments, constructive criticism or advice is always welcome and I hope you enjoy reading;)

cfitz

Hope it goes well for you.

I always tell people here to concentrate on running shorter distances as a beginner so I'm delighted that I'll get to see how it works for you.

Running Bing

At the moment Im just doing the base building phase, so its nothing too interesting.

I started with three weeks of easy running with a total weekly mileage of 22 mpw. Last week I started adding 6 strides after my easy runs and a long run of 8 miles on Sunday to give a total weekly mileage of 28 mpw.

For the strides I gradually increase my speed for 10 seconds, run near flat out for a further 10 seconds and then finally gradually reduce my speed for another ten seconds.

I'll follow that this week and next and thats when the harder workouts begin.


At the moment though I feel very positive and looking forward to getting stuck into some faster stuff. Ive been running 6 days a week with no problems at all so thats a big thing for me considering I only trained four days a week for the marathon. I feel like I could run 7 days a week (Im a student with plenty of time on my hands;)) but I think its unnecessary and the rest day is more beneficial.

Running Bing

cfitz wrote: »

Hope it goes well for you.

I always tell people here to concentrate on running shorter distances as a beginner so I'm delighted that I'll get to see how it works for you.

Im a younger runner too cfitz (early 20's) so I reckon I have plenty of time to be running marathons later on;)

shels4ever

Babybing wrote: »

OK I figure its about time I started one of these logs to track my progress, for motivation and of course to get lots of free advice from all the knowledgeable folks on here;)


I started running last June with the intention of doing Dublin, ticking it off the to do list and then hanging up my Kayanos but of course I got bitten by the bug and now all I think about is running:rolleyes:


As you can probably guess from the title I'd love to someday run Boston, but my long term goal is to run a marathon in under three hours. Thats a very lofty goal given my current level of running but Im looking at it over the long term and reckon I can get there within 3-4 years.

At the moment my PR's are:

Marathon : 4:15 (Oct 08)
10k: 49:08 (December 08)
5k: 21:30 (1 Jan 09)

Obvious pattern there....Im a lot better at the shorter stuff! Thats why this year I have decided to focus on shorter stuff, nothing longer than 5k and with a view to running well in BHAA track events in August.

Im following Jack Daniels program for 1500/3000m. Completely new experience for me having never really done any speed work before but it looks like a good programme and I reckon it will play to my strengths and help me improve.

Short term Goals:

Mile: sub 6
5k: Sub 20
10k: sub 45

Medium term goals:

Mile: 5:19
5k: 18:28
10k: sub 40

I choose them because they are the equivalent time of a 3 hour marathon on McMillan (I know its not 100% accurate but its as good a target as any and if Im at that level it will give me the confidence to shoot for the sub 3).

Like I said Im a relative newbie so any comments, constructive criticism or advice is always welcome and I hope you enjoy reading;)

Great best of luck , your targets are very similar to mine for the shorted distances, Will be nice to see how the different programs work out..
But i've no plans for a sub 3 marathon.

Woddle

About time you started one of these babybing. Best of luck and I can see you doing quite well. You seem to have a very sensible approach and as cfitz said everyone should start with short stuff and speed. I wish I did, well kind of and I'll look forward to racing against you in the summer I can see it being alot closer than new years day

cfitz

Babybing wrote: »

At the moment though I feel very positive and looking forward to getting stuck into some faster stuff. Ive been running 6 days a week with no problems at all so thats a big thing for me considering I only trained four days a week for the marathon. I feel like I could run 7 days a week (Im a student with plenty of time on my hands;)) but I think its unnecessary and the rest day is more beneficial.

Yeah even when I'm running 9 times per week I still take one complete rest day. Some people take a day every 2 weeks or do cross-training or a jog on their rest day but I like to take the full day off. Breaks each week, and lets me relax and forget about running for a day.

I think that once you hit 5:19 for the mile you should look to find a club and start thinking about a coach. Jack Daniels is surely a great coach and I've even seen him respond to people on internet forums but I still I think an actual coach closer to home might be a safer bet

dna_leri

Babybing wrote: »

Im a younger runner too cfitz (early 20's) so I reckon I have plenty of time to be running marathons later on;)

I have not been a younger runner for a long time but I also have decided to concentrate on the shorter races before I start to slow down.

I did not realise that Daniels had a program for those distances - have you bought his book or are they published on the net?

Best of luck with your training, have you a target race in mind or a first one to measure your progress?

.

Running Bing

dna_leri wrote: »

I have not been a younger runner for a long time but I also have decided to concentrate on the shorter races before I start to slow down.

I did not realise that Daniels had a program for those distances - have you bought his book or are they published on the net?

Yeah in his book Daniels running formula he includes detailed programmes for 800m, 1500/3000, 5-15k, half and full marathon. He also includes a section on cross country training and outlines his training philosophy, what each workout does for you and how to plan a season.


Its really a great book imo and I could not recommend it highly enough. Well worth 15 quid.

Best of luck with your training, have you a target race in mind or a first one to measure your progress?

Im planning on running the Patricks day 5k just to see where Im at at the moment and Ill run in the BHAA Trinity track meet in May to set official times for the shorter distances. My main focus for the year will be the series of BHAA track events in August in Irishtown stadium.

I would've liked to have more chances to race on the track but I wouldnt be up to the standard to compete with club runners so the BHAA events are the only real chance Ill have.

After that Ill run a couple of 5k's here and there and I might get a 10k in at some stage just to see can I break 45.

About time you started one of these babybing. Best of luck and I can see you doing quite well. You seem to have a very sensible approach and as cfitz said everyone should start with short stuff and speed. I wish I did, well kind of and I'll look forward to racing against you in the summer I can see it being alot closer than new years day

Haha hope so. All I remember that day is the gun going and then me looking around thinking "where's woddle gone";)

Running Bing

One thing I have added in the last month or so is a core routine. I do the following circuitx2 three times a week:

Lungesx20
Tricep Dipsx10
Bicyclesx30
Squatsx20
Push-upsx15
Ab Crunchesx30
Supermansx10
Metronome-I hold for 15 seconds on each side.
Side Plank-Hold for 15 seconds on each side
Leg raisesx20


Maybe its just the placebo effect but I feel this has definitely made a difference. I feel I can hold my form better towards the end of runs and I am more in control of my form. My balance has also improved.

As the mileage builds up and time becomes tighter I can see it being a temptation to skip it but Im definitely going to try to stick with it. Im sure I have to be getting some benefit from it.

cfitz

Babybing wrote: »

One thing I have added in the last month or so is a core routine. I do the following circuitx2 three times a week:

Lungesx20
Tricep Dipsx10
Bicyclesx30
Squatsx20
Push-upsx15
Ab Crunchesx30
Supermansx10
Metronome-I hold for 15 seconds on each side.
Side Plank-Hold for 15 seconds on each side
Leg raisesx20


Maybe its just the placebo effect but I feel this has definitely made a difference. I feel I can hold my form better towards the end of runs and I am more in control of my form. My balance has also improved.

As the mileage builds up and time becomes tighter I can see it being a temptation to skip it but Im definitely going to try to stick with it. Im sure I have to be getting some benefit from it.

That's very similar to the circuit I do once a week. (I do a smaller set of exercises 5 days per week.) Some people do much tougher stuff and some do none at all. And I think Racing Flat thinks it's all a waste of time!

Running Bing

Stayed up until 6 last night to watch a boxing match (it was worth it;)) and I wanted to get my run in this morning and be ready for the Carling cup final so I was pretty tired and took it very very easy.

8 miles, 10 min/mile pace around Bushy park. First few miles were a struggle but it was a lovely day to be out.


Off to watch the match now.....COME ON YOU SPURS;)

Running Bing

Hmmmm getting a bit disillusioned with all this easy running. It seems Im settling into a pace that's well north of what I should be doing.


The dilemma I face is that I can run a 5k at 6:50 min/mile pace but my easy running takes place in and around 10 min/mile....the problem is if I run faster than that I feel like Im pushing it, my breathing gets heavier and its not exactly easy. I've thrown caution to the wind and stuck at my "subjectively" easy pace so hopefully it will reap benefits when I start to get a bit of fast running into the legs next week.


Im also running the patricks day 5k on Sunday week so it will be an interesting experiment to see how I go in that (ran 21:30 in January and have done nothing but base training since).

On a more positive note my core routine is continuing to go well. Its something I actually look forward to and I feel Im getting something out of it. I also feel Im at a good weight now so Im happy on that front.

Looking forward to my fast workout on Monday but they have decided to board up my local track for "improvements" so Ill be doing some hill repeats instead.:pac:

Running Bing

One thing I have changed drastically in the last couple of months is I have made a change from running exclusively on roads to running nearly all of my mileage on grass.

I feel this has been of huge benefit.....while running on roads I was constantly getting niggles...ITB, shins, knees but since I changed to grass I have not felt a blip.


Its something I would definitely recommend.

Woddle

Babybing wrote: »

Hmmmm getting a bit disillusioned with all this easy running. It seems Im settling into a pace that's well north of what I should be doing.


The dilemma I face is that I can run a 5k at 6:50 min/mile pace but my easy running takes place in and around 10 min/mile....the problem is if I run faster than that I feel like Im pushing it, my breathing gets heavier and its not exactly easy. :

Have you considered wearing a heart rate monitor once or twice a week to gauge your easy effort. 10 mins sounds a little slow but I don't know that much, I'm just basing it on what I was doing, easy pace would have been about 9 min miles and HR at 68% ish.

Also if you feel its working, stick with it

Running Bing

Woddle wrote: »

Have you considered wearing a heart rate monitor once or twice a week to gauge your easy effort. 10 mins sounds a little slow but I don't know that much, I'm just basing it on what I was doing, easy pace would have been about 9 min miles and HR at 68% ish.

Also if you feel its working, stick with it

10 mins is definitely slow woddle...especially when you consider the heart rates! 10 min is usually between 70-75%:eek: 9 mins is closer to 80%....now considering the recommended easy pace for somebody running a 5k in my time (based on Daniels, McMillan and smartcoach) is around 8:50 min/mile something seems off.

One possible explanation is that I have underestimated my max heart rate at 200 bpm. This is based on my max heart rate during a 5k + 5bpm so it could be off.

Still, like I said going by subjective feeling an easy conversational pace seems to be between 9:40-10 min/mile.


I also have full confidence that I could still run a 21:30 5k now but we'll see next Sunday. That race will shed a lot of light on where I am at the moment.

shels4ever

Babybing wrote: »

10 mins is definitely slow woddle...especially when you consider the heart rates! 10 min is usually between 70-75%:eek: 9 mins is closer to 80%....now considering the recommended easy pace for somebody running a 5k in my time (based on Daniels, McMillan and smartcoach) is around 8:50 min/mile something seems off.

One possible explanation is that I have underestimated my max heart rate at 200 bpm. This is based on my max heart rate during a 5k + 5bpm so it could be off.

Still, like I said going by subjective feeling an easy conversational pace seems to be between 9:40-10 min/mile.


I also have full confidence that I could still run a 21:30 5k now but we'll see next Sunday. That race will shed a lot of light on where I am at the moment.

Hi there,
Just going on your times you seem to be just a little faster then me, i'd be prob just under 22 for 5k.

I was running at 9:30 pace for easy runs for a while but have started to push it slightly over the past few week an easy 5 mile would now be arouns 8:40/50 pace.

Long runs are @ about 9:30 pace.

What pace are your tempo and long runs at? Also grass is a little slower then the road so this could be a factor.

Running Bing

shels4ever wrote: »

Hi there,
Just going on your times you seem to be just a little faster then me, i'd be prob just under 22 for 5k.

I was running at 9:30 pace for easy runs for a while but have started to push it slightly over the past few week an easy 5 mile would now be arouns 8:40/50 pace.

Long runs are @ about 9:30 pace.

What pace are your tempo and long runs at? Also grass is a little slower then the road so this could be a factor.

Well at the moment shels my long runs are'nt that long. My last two have been:

8 miles @ 10:03 min/mile (151 bpm)
8 miles @ 9:55 min/mile (153bpm)

Im not really doing tempo runs at the minute but my last one (in january) was 7:44 min/mile (175 bpm).

The grass could be a factor but I reckon I need to do a few more tests on my max heart rate.


Do you have any idea what sort of hr's your hitting on those runs Shels?

shels4ever

Babybing wrote: »

Well at the moment shels my long runs are'nt that long. My last two have been:

8 miles @ 10:03 min/mile (151 bpm)
8 miles @ 9:55 min/mile (153bpm)

Im not really doing tempo runs at the minute but my last one (in january) was 7:44 min/mile (175 bpm).

The grass could be a factor but I reckon I need to do a few more tests on my max heart rate.


Do you have any idea what sort of hr's your hitting on those runs Shels?

Hi there,
No I havent been using the HM yet but might put it on next week to see. I think one big factor for my easy run pace dropping was tempo running and speed work this has help me improve the leg turnover big time as my pace on my easy runs.

I wouldnt worry about the pace on long runs too much its about time in the legs but if you can try to get maybe one tempo session a week and you will see improvments .

Also do your run alone?

cfitz

Babybing wrote: »

Well at the moment shels my long runs are'nt that long. My last two have been:

8 miles @ 10:03 min/mile (151 bpm)
8 miles @ 9:55 min/mile (153bpm)

I think 80 minutes can definitely be classed as a long run. Opinions vary and I'm not sure whether or not 90-120 minute runs are useful for middle distance training at your level. But, personally, I'd be inclined to cut them back to 50-70 minutes until you're running at about 8:30 min/mile pace.

Running Bing

shels4ever wrote: »

Hi there,
No I havent been using the HM yet but might put it on next week to see. I think one big factor for my easy run pace dropping was tempo running and speed work this has help me improve the leg turnover big time as my pace on my easy runs.

I wouldnt worry about the pace on long runs too much its about time in the legs but if you can try to get maybe one tempo session a week and you will see improvments .

Also do your run alone?

Yeah I run alone shels. As I said for the past few weeks I have been focusing exclusively on building a base i.e. nothing but easy running but the speedwork starts next week so Ill be doing reps, intervals and tempo runs then. Hopefully that will drop the pace a bit.

I think 80 minutes can definitely be classed as a long run. Opinions vary and I'm not sure whether or not 90-120 minute runs are useful for middle distance training at your level. But, personally, I'd be inclined to cut them back to 50-70 minutes until you're running at about 8:30 min/mile pace.

Really? Thats interesting because I was planning on bumping it up to 10 miles next week and eventually I saw myself running 12 mile long runs.

I have the time to do it and Im used to the longer runs from marathon training (e.g. I dont really find the 8 mile run taxing and I dont even feel any different the day after) so I thought it would be ok.


Would you advise sticking at 8 miles?

cfitz

Babybing wrote: »

Really? Thats interesting because I was planning on bumping it up to 10 miles next week and eventually I saw myself running 12 mile long runs.

I have the time to do it and Im used to the longer runs from marathon training (e.g. I dont really find the 8 mile run taxing and I dont even feel any different the day after) so I thought it would be ok.


Would you advise sticking at 8 miles?

I'm not sure whether or not it's of benefit to do the really long runs, but if I was deciding for you I'd say 70 minutes max. Give us your schedule for the week (with rough paces) and maybe it'll tell more.

Running Bing

cfitz wrote: »

I'm not sure whether or not it's of benefit to do the really long runs, but if I was deciding for you I'd say 70 minutes max. Give us your schedule for the week (with rough paces) and maybe it'll tell more.

Well looking at the programme Im about to start a typical week will be

Monday: Repititions-Sets of (2x200m+1x400m) ~ 46 seconds per 200m

Tuesday: 4-5 mile easy run @10 min/mile (or faster depending how I feel)

Wednesday: Intervals sets of 800m with 2 min recovery jog ~ 3:20 per 800m

Thursday: Rest

Friday: 4-5 mile easy run @10 min/mile (or faster depending how I feel)

Saturday: Tempo 6x1000m @tempo pace with 1 min rest (tempo pace is 4:33 per 1000m)

Sunday: Long run.

All thats provisional of course seeing as I have not done those workouts yet (the paces are based on Daniels VDOT) but thats a general idea.

Doing some more research on this the consensus seems to be not to go over 90 mins for the long run so maybe Ill stick to that.

Running Bing

Had a real confidence boosting run today.


Did just over 8 miles over hilly terrain (1606ft of ascents). The weather was awful and it felt like I had a gale force wind in my face the whole way....the last mile felt like I was taking one step forward and two steps back the wind was so strong in my face and some of the hills were grass and the wet weather made them slippy underfoot.......so given all that I was surprised to realise I did it at 9:13 min/mile pace. The even bigger surprise is I did not find it that tough, never struggled and felt pretty comfortable the whole way (even battling the wind in the last mile). Makes me think Im well capable of running my easy runs a bit faster and that I have been taking it too easy (Although according to Hadd this may not be the worst thing in the world;))

The past day or two I have been absolutely dying for next weekends race and thats the end of my base building phase so Ill have a bit more variety in my training now.


So that has set me up nicely for the introduction of some speedwork and Im feeling very positive.:)

cfitz

Babybing wrote: »

Well looking at the programme Im about to start a typical week will be

Monday: Repititions-Sets of (2x200m+1x400m) ~ 46 seconds per 200m

Tuesday: 4-5 mile easy run @10 min/mile (or faster depending how I feel)

Wednesday: Intervals sets of 800m with 2 min recovery jog ~ 3:20 per 800m

Thursday: Rest

Friday: 4-5 mile easy run @10 min/mile (or faster depending how I feel)

Saturday: Tempo 6x1000m @tempo pace with 1 min rest (tempo pace is 4:33 per 1000m)

Sunday: Long run.

All thats provisional of course seeing as I have not done those workouts yet (the paces are based on Daniels VDOT) but thats a general idea.

Doing some more research on this the consensus seems to be not to go over 90 mins for the long run so maybe Ill stick to that.

Does Daniels advise the 3 sessions per week? In my (not very knowledgable) opinion, I would have recommended more focus on just building fitness for you. I suppose my reckoning is that to get the benefit from the 3rd session or the >70 minute run, you would need to be fitter than you currently are.

Great to hear training is going well for you, and hopefully you'll race well at the weekend.

Running Bing

cfitz wrote: »

Does Daniels advise the 3 sessions per week? In my (not very knowledgable) opinion, I would have recommended more focus on just building fitness for you. I suppose my reckoning is that to get the benefit from the 3rd session or the >70 minute run, you would need to be fitter than you currently are.

Yeah I was thinking the same actually. The thing is Im really just a beginner and its not specifically a beginners programme so that is something I have to keep in mind . The programme alternates between three quality sessions one week and then two the following week with the most important quality session scheduled first in the week and so on.

So basically if I dont feel up to the third quality session or feel it is having a detrimental affect on the rest of the programme Ill skip it.

Running Bing

Finally some faster running:D


Workout was sets of (2x200m with 200m recovery jogs + 1x400m with 400m recovery jog).

Did three sets in total and they went as follows:

Set 1:
1. 00:48
2. 00:42

3(400m). 1:38

Set 2:
1. 00:43
2. 00:44

3(400m). 1:35

Set 3:
1. 00:44
2. 00:44

3(400m). 1:34


The paces I was aiming for was 46 seconds for the 200's and 1:34 for the 400's.

I was surprised to find the pace felt very comfortable. I ran the rep's very relaxed and I felt I could've run them a fair bit faster and done a few more at the end. That was a big relief considering how off my easy pace seemed to be.


All in all a very enjoyable (and I feel rewarding) session and it felt absolutely wonderful to run at a faster pace.:pac:

Running Bing

Todays workout was an absolute killer!


It was the first really nice day of the year (that Ive been out running on anyway) and the workout was 4x1000m with 2 minutes rest in between.

The legs felt heavy and I knew after the first set I was never going to stick to the prescribed pace. The aim was to do each set in 4:12 but they went as follows:

1. 4:18
2. 4:21
3. 4:31
4. 4:34

Average heart rate on the intervals was 175 with maximums of 178, 181, 181, 182

So way off pace and I was quite disappointed in that. My track is still closed for upgrades so I had to do them on grass and there was a strong breeze but they were still a lot slower than I would've hoped. Didn't achieve what I wanted this workout but it was not a complete disaster because I learned an important lesson:

Daniels says do either 800m or 1000m intervals. Of course I listened to my ego and choose 1000m even though I have never done intervals before:rolleyes: This was a stupid move and I learned from now on introduce new things gradually. Ill definitely be dropping down to 800m the next time.


Based on my training so far I think my main weakness are a low lactate threshold and a low VO2max (which would make sense as I have never really trained those areas).....plenty of work to be done in those area's:)

Running Bing

Very disappointing day today. Ran a 21:52:( Gutted with that tbh. My k splits were as follows:

1k: 4:24 (pressed the start button late as well. This is way too slow)
2k: 4:11
3k: 4:21
4k: 4:29
5k: 4:09

Im a fair bit lighter now than I was on Jan 1st (when I ran 21:30), have a stronger core, I feel my form has improved, my diet was better leading up to this race and Im running 28 miles a week now versus less than 20 leading up to the last one and I still ran slower:mad:

Ive had a tough week this week with two pretty tough speed sessions and a 90 minute long run on Thursday and I had a very stressful week at college so maybe that accounts for it but the big thing for me is the lack of progress after all that base training.

Two and a half months of aerobic running and I feel it has got me nowhere. The writing was on the wall tbh and I had a feeling I would have a very hard time setting a PB today but its still disappointing.

Depressing really but in a way it makes me more determined than ever. Im doing workouts now that I am 100% sure will make a difference so hopefully my times start to fall.

Sick of all that easy sh1te anyway. Time to push it a bit I think.

Woddle

Your being very hard on yourself, you said it yourself you only started your speed work. Chin up and hammer the next one out of the park.

Running Bing

Woddle wrote: »

Your being very hard on yourself, you said it yourself you only started your speed work. Chin up and hammer the next one out of the park.

On a brighter note my club is down as Boards AC.


Which begs the question......am I the first boards AC finisher in this race?;)

Running Bing

Todays workout was the same as last Mondays (post no.27) but with an 800 instead of the 400's. Target pace for the 200's was 46 seconds and for the 800's 3:08. Went as follows:


10 minute warm-up

Set 1:
200:46
200:44
800:3:08

Set 2
200:46
200:44
800:3:07

Set 3:
200:45
200:44
800:3:08


Legs felt tired and sore from yesterdays race so I was happy to keep to the required pace for all the reps. Felt fine for the most part (200's are very comfortable) but I had to push it on the last 800 to stay on pace.

Good workout though and I'm feeling a bit more upbeat after it:)

shels4ever

Babybing wrote: »

Very disappointing day today. Ran a 21:52:( Gutted with that tbh. My k splits were as follows:

1k: 4:24 (pressed the start button late as well. This is way too slow)
2k: 4:11
3k: 4:21
4k: 4:29
5k: 4:09

Im a fair bit lighter now than I was on Jan 1st (when I ran 21:30), have a stronger core, I feel my form has improved, my diet was better leading up to this race and Im running 28 miles a week now versus less than 20 leading up to the last one and I still ran slower:mad:

Ive had a tough week this week with two pretty tough speed sessions and a 90 minute long run on Thursday and I had a very stressful week at college so maybe that accounts for it but the big thing for me is the lack of progress after all that base training.

Two and a half months of aerobic running and I feel it has got me nowhere. The writing was on the wall tbh and I had a feeling I would have a very hard time setting a PB today but its still disappointing.

Depressing really but in a way it makes me more determined than ever. Im doing workouts now that I am 100% sure will make a difference so hopefully my times start to fall.

Sick of all that easy sh1te anyway. Time to push it a bit I think.

Hi there,
I wouldn't worry about that time at all. I had phases where I increased training and my times either improved very very little or actually regressed.

I found that my speedwork did pay off but it took 4-6 week before I actually noticed any return in race time

I think you should set your sights on a race at all, Also you seem to have run the race on the back of a hard week, sometimes less is more when it comes to race weeks and if you really want to target a time / race you need to reduce or taper for it even for shorter races. In the end of the day you were only 4 sec's per k slower. Your training will stand to you long term and nobody pb's in ever race

Also your 800 times look very quick , i don't think I could live with them and i'd hope to run close to sub 21 mins for 5k now.

Running Bing

shels4ever wrote: »

Hi there,
I wouldn't worry about that time at all. I had phases where I increased training and my times either improved very very little or actually regressed.

I found that my speedwork did pay off but it took 4-6 week before I actually noticed any return in race time

I think you should set your sights on a race at all, Also you seem to have run the race on the back of a hard week, sometimes less is more when it comes to race weeks and if you really want to target a time / race you need to reduce or taper for it even for shorter races. In the end of the day you were only 4 sec's per k slower. Your training will stand to you long term and nobody pb's in ever race

Also your 800 times look very quick , i don't think I could live with them and i'd hope to run close to sub 21 mins for 5k now.

Yeah wise words there shels. I feel a bit better about it today...as you point out it was a hard week and it was'nt a crucial race for me (hence the lack of taper).

Could've been a lot worse........when I finished the race I thought it was very very slow. I did'nt see the time as I finished the line and I had my Garmin set to show average lap pace (i.e. lap per kilometre)...I could've sworn I seen 5:24 per K:eek::eek: With that I just hit the reset button.:P

Running Bing

Tuesday: Legs very sore and heavy after the race on Sunday and rep workout on Monday so I took it very easy. 5 mile recovery jog @ 9:25 pace.


Wednesday: What a gorgeous day for running. I've decided to up the pace a bit on my easy days. Did 4.3 miles today @ 8:32 pace and it felt great. There was a time when I found it very very tough to run under 10 min/miles on my easy days, naturally as my marathon training progressed I got more used to this pace and I have been used to it for a very long time. The problem is I think I got too used to it. It got to the stage that while 9:50-10:00 pace felt very very easy if I tried to up it it didnt feel normal. Running at 8:30 pace today I realised that I am well capable of it and it felt pretty natural.

For my 5k time Mcmillan says my easy runs should be between 8:30-9:00 so todays run was at the faster end and still felt comfortable. So Im hoping this pace (like the 9:50 min/mile pace before it) will eventually feel very very easy and I can up the pace again.

Of course Ill still do some runs a bit slower at recovery pace if I really need to (like yesterday) but from now on I think its time I revised what "easy" really feels like:cool:

cfitz

Even when not easing up for a race, I would consider it very unusual to do an interval session the day after a race. When racing I would suggest switching around your week just a little bit so you have an easy run the day after a race.

Running Bing

cfitz wrote: »

Even when not easing up for a race, I would consider it very unusual to do an interval session the day after a race. When racing I would suggest switching around your week just a little bit so you have an easy run the day after a race.

Yeah I dont know why I did that. I could've easily done the interval session yesterday or even today.


I think I just woke up on Monday ready to bite the ass off a bear after Sundays race:o


Definite mistake. Lesson learned:D

Running Bing

Thursday: Rest day

Friday: Had one of the best runs of my life today:D

1 mile warm up
20 minutes @ Tempo Pace (7:11.....but that was a bit fast, I was going for 7:17:o)
Straight into 6x200m with 200m recovery jogs (aim was 46 seconds)
2 mile cool down

200's went:

47
45
45
46
47
46


Weather was absolutely glorious and the 200's felt effortless. Tempo run (done around the track) felt just right....comfortably hard and feel I could've kept at that pace in a race for around an hour.

Finished the run and just sat on the grass taking in some rays:cool: Dont know what it was but it just felt great.:pac:

Running Bing

4 miles today @ 8:32 pace. Average Heart rate=142

Before I upped the pace of the easy runs I was running @ 9:30-10:10 pace and my average heart rate was in the 140-150 range (usually around 145).


Strange thing the human body:rolleyes:

Running Bing

Sunday: Long run of 8 miles @9:21 pace . Was tough after a late night on Saturday. My Sunday long run usually doesnt feel great because of late nights the night before:rolleyes: Have to make more of an effort to get to bed earlier on a Saturday or maybe move the long run (Im just so used to doing it on Sundays now:o).

Monday: Felt tired today after a busy weekend and felt a slight twinge in my right knee so decided to take a rest day.

Today: 3x(2x200m with 200m recovery+1x400m with 400m recovery). Aiming for 46 secs for the 200's and 1:34 for the 400's:

200:44
200:45
400: 1:34

200:45
200:50 (Garmin decided to go haywire on this one;))
400: 1:34

200:45
200:46
400: 1:35


Very strong wind down the back straight but I must say this workout feels pretty comfortable for me. I can run the required pace quite relaxed. As I said Ive noticed a slight twinge in my right knee. Its not sore or painful but Ill keep an eye on it. The past couple of weeks have been pretty intense for me running wise so if it develops any further Ill cut down the mileage, the intensity or both.

cfitz

What's the next step regarding that interval session? Will you be doing it again for a few more weeks or is the next one faster/more reps/shorter recovery?

Running Bing

cfitz wrote: »

What's the next step regarding that interval session? Will you be doing it again for a few more weeks or is the next one faster/more reps/shorter recovery?

Well this is phase 2 of 4 of the programme and Daniels calls it early quality training.

Its basically just about introducing the faster running and these short "rep" workouts are given priority.


In the next phase (which begins in three weeks time) longer interval sessions are given priority so things like 800's and 1000's.

Running Bing

Wednesday: 5 mile recovery jog. Took it very easy as it was wedged in between two tough sessions.

Thursday:

1 mile warm-up
5x800m with 2 minutes rest
2 mile cool down with strides (just to get used to the new spikes;))

I was a bit apprehensive about this workout after that bad interval session a couple of weeks back (post 28). I decided to do 5x800 instead of the 4x1000 I did that week.

Turned out a fantastic workout. Was aiming for 3:20 pace and it went:

3:10
3:14
3:08
3:10
3:14

so a bit ahead of pace and it was pretty windy but it still felt very doable which was good. In fact I am wondering if it was tough enough to be classed as a vo2max workout? I see a lot of places say such workouts should be done between 95-98% of max heart rate:eek: The highest my HR reached the whole session was 91% and my average heart rate during the intervals hovered between 85-87%.

After the intervals I whacked on the new spikes just to try them out. Felt great....like running barefoot and such a difference from my big clunky training shoes:D

Wind aside the weather was glorious too....and just as I finished and got to the car the rain started:D So a good day all round;)

Running Bing

Friday: 4 miles @8:46 pace

Saturday: Decided to try a few cruise intervals. Cfitz mentioned earlier in the log that three harder sessions a week was a lot for somebody at my level so Im taking it cautiously on that front. I felt good on Saturday and and legs felt strong so I decided to give it a try to see how demanding it was. after a 1 mile warm up I did 4x1000m at tempo pace (7:16-7:33) with 1 minute rests and followed it with a 1 mile cooldown. Felt fine, not very tough at all and the legs felt grand the next day. I think the fact I am only doing 4x1000's means its not a particularly demanding workout....I'll play it by ear in the future. If Im not feeling 100% I would have no qualms about dropping this workout.

Sunday: Long run of 8.5 miles @9:26 pace

Pretty good week for me. Got in two good interval sessions, a bit of running at tempo pace and the pace of my easy runs is falling. One thing I have to pay more attention to is my core work. Ive only got in two sessions a week for the past few weeks when ideally I would like three.

shels4ever

Babybing wrote: »

Friday: 4 miles @8:46 pace

Saturday: Decided to try a few cruise intervals. Cfitz mentioned earlier in the log that three harder sessions a week was a lot for somebody at my level so Im taking it cautiously on that front. I felt good on Saturday and and legs felt strong so I decided to give it a try to see how demanding it was. after a 1 mile warm up I did 4x1000m at tempo pace (7:16-7:33) with 1 minute rests and followed it with a 1 mile cooldown. Felt fine, not very tough at all and the legs felt grand the next day. I think the fact I am only doing 4x1000's means its not a particularly demanding workout....I'll play it by ear in the future. If Im not feeling 100% I would have no qualms about dropping this workout.

Sunday: Long run of 8.5 miles @9:26 pace

Pretty good week for me. Got in two good interval sessions, a bit of running at tempo pace and the pace of my easy runs is falling. One thing I have to pay more attention to is my core work. Ive only got in two sessions a week for the past few weeks when ideally I would like three.

You'll be in good shape come the time of the Graded leagues in the the summer..

Running Bing

Was supposed to run a 3000m race tonight. I was held up a bit today and had to rush out without a proper idea of where Morton Stadium was...by the time I found it the race was underway:( I wouldnt mind but I was literally 500 yards from the place but thought I was heading in the wrong direction and turned around:mad:


Just in now and Im pretty livid. I was very up for this race and felt confident I could run it well......was looking forward to it for the past week:rolleyes:


anyway what's done is done, Ill get a bit of faster running in tomorrow seeing as I missed the race.

shels4ever

Babybing wrote: »

Was supposed to run a 3000m race tonight. I was held up a bit today and had to rush out without a proper idea of where Morton Stadium was...by the time I found it the race was underway:( I wouldnt mind but I was literally 500 yards from the place but thought I was heading in the wrong direction and turned around:mad:


Just in now and Im pretty livid. I was very up for this race and felt confident I could run it well......was looking forward to it for the past week:rolleyes:


anyway what's done is done, Ill get a bit of faster running in tomorrow seeing as I missed the race.

Thats a pity, was this been run on the Track tonight? Did you have any planned time or target sub 13 or quicker?

Running Bing

shels4ever wrote: »

Thats a pity, was this been run on the Track tonight? Did you have any planned time or target sub 13 or quicker?

Yeah it was being run on the track up in Morton. My 5k time put me at 12:19 so I was aiming for something around that, really felt I could've had a good crack at sub 12 though.

There's a mile race at the end of the month so Ill just have to wait for that.....Im itching to go at this stage.;)

Running Bing

Wednesday: 3x(2x200m with 200m recovery + 800m with 800m recovery)

Went as follows:

200-45
200-45
800-3:10

200-47
200-43
800-3:08

200-49
200-44
800-3:06


Couldnt get into the swing of things at all yesterday. Hit my target times on most of the reps but it didnt feel great, found the 800's tough enough.

Thursday: 6 miles @8:58 pace. Took it nice and easy after the tough workout yesterday (plus I have a tempo run tomorrow). Absolutely beautiful day, Id take that for the rest of the summer;)

Running Bing

Friday: Went out on my run today planning to do a tempo run but decided to postpone it because of the weather and because I needed to go to the toilet

So I did 6 miles at a snails pace keeping the heart rate around the 130 mark (65% max). Very slow easy run but such sessions cant do any harm.

Saturday:

1 mile warm-up
40 minute tempo
4x200m with 200m recovery jogs
1 mile warm down

Tough enough workout this. The plan was to run the Tempo at an adjusted tempo pace (so my standard tempo pace for 20 minutes + a 15 second per mile adjustment for the longer distance). Ran 7:15 per mile which was a bit fast (plan was to run 7:32's) but it still felt comfortably hard.

I find tempo runs more mentally demanding than physically. There's something about going at that pace, just on the cusp of being hard, that can be pretty draining. Still feel absolutely great afterwards though.

Ran the 200's in:

1.45
2.46
3.44
4.43

I covered 5.5 miles in the 40 minutes and I kept a nice even pace which felt very doable so that gives me confidence I could make a good crack at a 45 min 10k (going to be a while before I try that though ).

Sunday: Did a lot of running in yesterdays workout so made sure to take it easy on todays long run.

8 miles, 9:49 pace, 70% HR. Not very fast but a beautiful early morning run. Very enjoyable.

Running Bing

Just want to get people's opinions on this.

Im running 34 miles a week now and I feel Im getting pretty used to the faster paced workouts now. I have another 5 weeks training at this level before I go onto harder training and Im toying with the idea of upping the mileage to 40 mpw.

I run 6 days a week and I managed my 34 miles this week with 5 days of running.


Do people think there would be much of a benefit from upping the mileage?

Could it potentially do more damage than good (e.g.injuries, burnout) or would the extra mileage serve me well?

Id really like to hear what people think on this because I'm not sure what to do myself